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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
durring the 70's and 80's I stalked the east and west side of crow Island.alwyas shot ducks and you could run a outboard.after a 10 yr lay off I did not hunt ducks back home.I also hunted maple river floodings.red oak trail and meridan rd. so last oct I hunted the west side of CI.I noticed no carp no water lots of weeds and little to no ducks.since the changed the refuge spot I dont feel the fowl come to the hunter.I also didnt see 6ft tall rat houses.so this year I hunted the west side WTH low water weeds no ducks. I havs seen cans there shot reds , bills a ton of mallards and a ton of geese. always used a 40 hrse outboard. this place looked like hell again no carp no rats no water no ducks. meridan rd completely dry!!!! maple river a joke.I grew up in brant and stomped these places like I owned em.I feel that these places are being left to perish. while I no longer reside in Mi I still come home to hunt.I know the economy is worse there than here but I cant help be to get very angry at what I see and dont see.I also feel the the dnr are purposely leaving these places only to put money in the bingo places. so please respond with comments and if you can in a positive tone tell me what you feel I know whayt you didnt see DUCKS and WATER.:SHOCKED:
 

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durring the 70's and 80's I stalked the east and west side of crow Island.alwyas shot ducks and you could run a outboard.after a 10 yr lay off I did not hunt ducks back home.I also hunted maple river floodings.red oak trail and meridan rd. so last oct I hunted the west side of CI.I noticed no carp no water lots of weeds and little to no ducks.since the changed the refuge spot I dont feel the fowl come to the hunter.I also didnt see 6ft tall rat houses.so this year I hunted the west side WTH low water weeds no ducks. I havs seen cans there shot reds , bills a ton of mallards and a ton of geese. always used a 40 hrse outboard. this place looked like hell again no carp no rats no water no ducks. meridan rd completely dry!!!! maple river a joke.I grew up in brant and stomped these places like I owned em.I feel that these places are being left to perish. while I no longer reside in Mi I still come home to hunt.I know the economy is worse there than here but I cant help be to get very angry at what I see and dont see.I also feel the the dnr are purposely leaving these places only to put money in the bingo places. so please respond with comments and if you can in a positive tone tell me what you feel I know whayt you didnt see DUCKS and WATER.:SHOCKED:
welcome to the state of michigans underfunded DNR. if you think bingo's are getting money mis-directed to them your sadly mistaken. Local managed areas are being supported by local hunting groups and they are basically the lifeblood of those respective areas. what you see is a lack of organized groups supporting the fringe areas like maple river/crow island/wigwam etc...and DNR managing them less and less.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
if the places are state land why are they NOT being managed by the state as well as the bingo parlors?How does stcharles always seem to have water corn etc?. why were these places so much better in the 70 and 80's.these places are state land and should be managed by the state not left for groups to donate what they can.they ought to take the money and divide amounst the counties evenly you cant tell me that the current system is right or fair. not only are the liscense fees paying for these places but ALOT of nesting ground is lost due to these nincompoops MISmanagement.
 

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But if lack of funds are the problem. I think it's better to "chose your battles" so to speak.

Focus on a few, rather than have all of them underfunded.
 

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if the places are state land why are they NOT being managed by the state as well as the bingo parlors?How does stcharles always seem to have water corn etc?. why were these places so much better in the 70 and 80's.these places are state land and should be managed by the state not left for groups to donate what they can.they ought to take the money and divide amounst the counties evenly you cant tell me that the current system is right or fair. not only are the liscense fees paying for these places but ALOT of nesting ground is lost due to these nincompoops MISmanagement.
The kid answered your question. It's not mismanagement, it's lack of $$$
Which is the underfunded DNR. There are a "Lot" of places in the state that are not kept up like they used to be. The managed area's have local support groups that due maint and provide/help where the area your speaking of does not. The DNR does not have the $$$ or manpower to facilitate taking care of C.I And the WMA's bring in Revenue....$$$ not much, but more than C.I. And comparing use ? There's no question as what area's get used more. I'm sorry your upset, but those are the facts........
 

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its not DNR mismanagement. look higher for your answer. DNR is doing what they can with what is given to them. I'm no fan of the DNR but its not all their fault at the moment (or last 10 years).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
so where do the funds come from that are supposed to be there?I also thought that licenses stamp etc were supposed to help pay for these places up keep etc..so then why then not do anything with these places?people would use them I did not to mention the breeding loss. who is taking the money? and why are they not getting it? take a little less from paul to let peter have some.all the money should NOT go to just the bingos but seems like what is going on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
who is the higher? why is the dnr not getting what they should and where is thier money going that they are not recieving?
 

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coyoteman34-

Shi Kid and others answered your questions. We have hashed this out on this and other websites over the last few years (you can go back and search the gory details). I'm not sure how long you've been gone from Michigan, but the real problems started 10-12 years ago in the last administration (Gov. Engler) when the funding of the DNR was drastically changed. What used to be a very well funded and sound program, much of it by General Fund (GF) monies (i.e. taxes) was raped and pilaged, and turned into a largely fee based program. Slowly over those years, funding for general purposes, like habitat creation and maintenance, dwindled to where it's at now, which is a shadow of what it was 20 years ago. This is a very long, complicated, political discussion, but the bottom line is over this time period the spending priorities of the politicians in this state became corrections and human services...most other programs have almost dried up completely. 20 years ago our corrections program in Michigan was the smallest department, with the fewest staff and smallest budget. Now it's huge! So it's basically dollars, and where our politicians have chosen to put the money.

But about your thoughts on Maple River in particular, I have to disagree with you. I've hunted there quite a bit since the mid 80's because it's not far from my house, and I can list a lot of habitat improvements that have taken place in that time period. Several new dikes were constructed, and wetland impoundments created, new control structures, and ditching and other things have all been done in that time period, as well as new property purchased. Now I will say this fall the crop field (unit D) was an almost complete failure. But this was due to weather...if you didn't know, mid Michigan was hit by a series of flooding from rains and snow melt last spring that severely impeded planting. Shiawassee River had even worse problems. But the crop field at Maple River failed...period. That's not the DNR's fault. So I respectfully disagree with you about MR...can't speak for the others.
 

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Hey prolly the reason why there are no crap at maple river are because there are so many dogfish there. I bowfished there every weekend for a month and the dogfish have over run the place in one year!!!!! they weren't there last year, the carp we did see were small but we did end up with shooting quite a few but not as much as in past years!!!! The only time ever really hunted the maple river was during the youth hunt. It was freaking awesome but that was a long time ago too.
 

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so where do the funds come from that are supposed to be there?I also thought that licenses stamp etc were supposed to help pay for these places up keep etc..so then why then not do anything with these places?people would use them I did not to mention the breeding loss. who is taking the money? and why are they not getting it? take a little less from paul to let peter have some.all the money should NOT go to just the bingos but seems like what is going on.
the bingos ain't gettin shi_T. dunno where your getting this. ask any of them how their money supply is doing. :)
 

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Did we not just vote not too long ago on a proposal that would fund the DNR? Money was being taken from the DNR to the general fund and this proposal was to keep that from happening.

But, why wait for the DNR. Local groups, concerned citizens, the MDA, DU should be taking the lead. They can do it faster, cheaper, and better than the DNR.

Up in the UP, if we had to wait for the DNR, nothing would get done.
 

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if the places are state land why are they NOT being managed by the state as well as the bingo parlors?How does stcharles always seem to have water corn etc?. why were these places so much better in the 70 and 80's.these places are state land and should be managed by the state not left for groups to donate what they can.they ought to take the money and divide amounst the counties evenly you cant tell me that the current system is right or fair. not only are the liscense fees paying for these places but ALOT of nesting ground is lost due to these nincompoops MISmanagement.
Hey Barack, that's called socialism. If Shi's groups raise more money and are more involved in improving the area- they are going to have better facilities. Capitalism at its finest.

If you are that distraught, start your own organization to improve these areas. I don't have the time or money now, but in the future, maybe it will become my project. I used to hunt maple several times a year, but didn't get out there this year. A lot of the reason it looked so terrible this year, was the spring rains didn't allow for the corn to get planted until late. The standing corn is hardly above water this year I have heard. This wasn't exclusive to Maple floodwaters either. Its unfortunate that you can drive by there and see 15 different groups hunting, but no one can but together an organization to help fund, and man projects for improvement.
 

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shiawassee always has good crops because we have awesome farmer/hunter/dnr communications. We always have water because our river/dike system is probably the best engineered system to perform a full flooding in low water conditions...not dependent on lake levels.
 

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so where do the funds come from that are supposed to be there? I also thought that licenses stamp etc were supposed to help pay for these places up keep etc..so then why then not do anything with these places?
It pretty much comes down to the way our DNR is funded now compared to the way other States do it (and the way we used to do it here like JD said). For instance, a largely rural state like North Dakota has more people that recognize the value of the outdoors, and want their state government to manage it well. The sad fact is that in Michigan the majority of our state's population lives in the cities in the southern third of the state. People who are truly "urban" really don't see the funding of our DNR as a priority for the state. Their representatives in State Government vote accordingly, and they've got a lot of votes. Therefore the DNR gets very limited funding from the State's General Fund. It's true, like you said that licence fees stay within the DNR and they DO go to fund these areas. But all the license sales in the world won't help the DNR much unless they get some actual General Fund budget dollars allocated. This isn't going to happen. The State is flat broke, and the DNR is not a priority. Adidionally the fact is that license sales are gradually declining year to year, so when you consider that along with the budget crisis due to the economy, it's unlikely that there will be any funding increases for quite a while. I'd like to think that eventually it'll get better, but I've got some serious doubts..... I hate to say this in print, but if you think these areas are under-managed NOW, just wait a couple of years and see how bad it really can get....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
if I lived there I might be able to help but living 800 miles away it really bites when I took my oldest son to these places this winter. hopeing he would shoot ducks with his dad and grandfather in the same places.
 

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Peel back the onion one more layer and ask "Why is the DNR underfunded?" Answer the State has lost much of its tax base. If you ask why on that it is simple, the decline of the US Based Auto Industry-where does the US based Auto Industry reside...Michigan?

I am no fan of how either of MIs 'finger pointing' political parties are handling matters, however, when I see educational budgets and public safety departments being gutted, I comprehend the challenges that reduced revenues bring.

Thanks for spending your vacation dollars here C Man and thanks to all of the volunteers @ the State Game areas who use their own time to better our resources.
 

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I hate to say this in print, but if you think these areas are under-managed NOW, just wait a couple of years and see how bad it really can get....
this is absolutely right. we will be lucky to have a managed area system in 2010. Every year we are threatened by closure. Its happened every season since 2007. If it doesn't happen again this year i will surely be surprised.

also to address managed areas getting more money (laugh) than other areas.....quite simply one reason for this. They provide more fall migration habitat than any other areas in the state. If you were to close fish point, shiawassee, NQP or harsens.......you would simply watch a lot of birds skip right on thru to find suitable food farther down the line. Does maple river, crow island or any of the other un-managed areas provide this?
 

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It pretty much comes down to the way our DNR is funded now compared to the way other States do it (and the way we used to do it here like JD said). For instance, a largely rural state like North Dakota has more people that recognize the value of the outdoors, and want their state government to manage it well. The sad fact is that in Michigan the majority of our state's population lives in the cities in the southern third of the state. People who are truly "urban" really don't see the funding of our DNR as a priority for the state. Their representatives in State Government vote accordingly, and they've got a lot of votes. Therefore the DNR gets very limited funding from the State's General Fund. It's true, like you said that licence fees stay within the DNR and they DO go to fund these areas. But all the license sales in the world won't help the DNR much unless they get some actual General Fund budget dollars allocated. This isn't going to happen. The State is flat broke, and the DNR is not a priority. Adidionally the fact is that license sales are gradually declining year to year, so when you consider that along with the budget crisis due to the economy, it's unlikely that there will be any funding increases for quite a while. I'd like to think that eventually it'll get better, but I've got some serious doubts..... I hate to say this in print, but if you think these areas are under-managed NOW, just wait a couple of years and see how bad it really can get....
Doug,

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, and gave a bit more detail than I did (but very well stated). The declining license numbers is becoming a major issue in this picture, and is happening all over the country. I hate to be pessimistic, but the best we can hope for on that front is to hold our own in years to come. The days of hunter/angler numbers actually increasing here in Michigan are gone, when you consider the young people have way too many distractions, plus Michigan's population is decreasing due largely to what Swampboss said in his post about the demise of the "big 3".

So Coyoteman...did this paint the picture gloomy enough for you? We don't mean to sound so pessimistic, but this is the reality of things.
 

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Don't worry Just_ducky I got 4 weeks and I'll be adding to the pool. Son looks to be born Jan17.
 
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