...Quite frankly we'll never get anywhere by blaming the Gov. G. for every damn thing that is wrong in MI. The all too often blame game on one person.....is what paralyzes any forward movement. In reality the former Engler administration did far more harm to the DNR than anyone, but that gets this forum into the politics that is best left unsaid.

Very true! And I know swoosh said he meant it in jest when he blamed the current Governor, but unfortunately too many of us feel that way. But most people are ignorant to the facts. The fact is the days of relying on the government, state or federal, to pay for the services we expect or demand, and certainly asking for increasing services (such as beefing up the habitat work on state/federal property), are long gone. Doesn't matter if it's wildlife issues, corrections, child protective services, road maintenance, or what. There was a shift which started in the Engler administration and has continued with Granholm towards a "user pay" form of government. The personal income tax cuts that we all benefitted from in the past decade are now coming back to haunt us in decreased services in many areas. But I don't mean to start a "blame the politicians" thread here...the facts are the facts...we all voted for this, and now we have to live with it. It's our own fault, not the politicians!

One of the issues with Michigan that has not been discussed here is the vast differences in habitat and climate that we have here that are drastically different than many of the states that people like to compare our deer herd to. This creates an inherent problem when it comes to "habitat improvement" as a whole in this state. When you look at our state from the Ohio border, all the way up through the UP and over to Wisconsin/Minnesota, we have some of the most varied habitat that you'll find anywhere in the U.S. What may be proper habitat work in the western UP is not proper in the south central lower, and vice versa. Yes all states have some variety, but I'd hazard a guess that we lead the pack in that respect. This creates more division among the hunting community, because the guys in the southern lower scream for the DNR to do certain things, and the guys in the northern lower scream to do different things, and the guys in the UP scream about even different things.

Fact is guys we live in a very large, very diverse state. We have some outstanding areas when it comes to deer herd, ratios, habitat, etc. And we have some very poor areas. But when you take into account my examples above, I still maintain that overall we have very little to complain about.

I also want to echo what Whit said in an earlier post when he said this thread has had good, constructive discussion. In fact, one of the most constructive discussions I've ever had on this forum. Thanks guys for keeping it that way.

 

In 2004, I hunted hard. The locals up there and good friends of mine were telling me the deer were "all gone". They said the years of unlimited doe permits had finally obliterated the herd. I still hunted hard because I love the land up there, and enjoy the woods. Yet, I would be lying to say that 12 days of hard hunting in October that hadn't even produced a single deer sighting wasn't frustrating. I was hunting for venison plain and simple. If I were to see one of the pair of mature doe that survived the square mile I hunt, it surely would not be in the best interest of the herd to harvest this animal.
In November I had thought that the rut might re-shuffle the deck and allow an opportunity to at least see a deer or two. With rejuvenated hope, I set out for my annual 10 day hunt. The woods were incredible and I spent 9 - 10 hours a day hunting in some of the best spots that I knew of. Six days of my vacation had passed, and still not a single deer sighting. Knowing I only had 4 days left, I was going to hunt the trails through my oaks one last time on my property before heading out into the swamps on State land. As the sun was coming up that morning, I herd something moving along the edge of the thick stuff I was hunting. I was nearly shocked to see it was a deer. As it moved along the trail, I could tell that it was a spike. This was the first deer I had seen in nearly 18 days (about 200 hours) of hunting, and it seemed it would emerge and take the trail that crossed 20 yards to my left. Was I excited? You better believe it. There was adrenaline; there always is when you are attempting to harvest a magnificent creature such as this. As he moved into the open I raised and drew my bow. He stopped offering a perfect broadside shot. I released the arrow and watched it disappear just behind the shoulder, about an inch or two below midline. "Perfect shot" I whispered to myself. The deer went only 50 yards. I took out both lungs and severed the aorta just missing the heart. As I approached that deer on that day, the reverent emotions were as strong as any I can remember for any hunt of my life. I knelt next to him in appreciation and whispered "sorry bud, most years I would have passed you up". It was a very moving and very rewarding experience. I have shot many a mature buck, and have many mounts on my walls... but this year and this hunt is as special as any of them.
For this reason I say harvest what is best for the herd that you are hunting. If doe need to be taken, let the young bucks walk and take a few. If the deer herd needs to recover, spare the doe. Whatever you decide to take, appreciate it, enjoy it on your table, and thank your creator for allowing you the opportunity.
Here is a picture if the deer from this story. If anyone here thinks that their 140 class buck, or 6 point from that year was more of a trophy; I could beg to differ with ya!

<----<<<

 

Hey that would be ok if everyone passe on anything smaller than a 6,m I would be right behind them shooting those smaller bucks you all let pass, they taste the same. I take 2 bucks every year, I have no problem with the way things are right now, wanna shoot a bigger deer go to a deer ranch!

Does taste the same too. Ever thought about taking one of them in areas that are overpopulated? Do you know the impact that an overpopulated herd has not only on itself but the habitat to include other species of plants and animals? Or that we have a whacked buck/doe ratio and poor age structure in bucks? Or are you someone who doesn't care about the health at all as long as you get your bucks?

 

MichiganHunter1971Hey that would be ok if everyone passe on anything smaller than a 6,m I would be right behind them shooting those smaller bucks you all let pass, they taste the same. I take 2 bucks every year, I have no problem with the way things are right now, wanna shoot a bigger deer go to a deer ranch!

Shooting yearling bucks is not really anything to brag about. I would venture to say, most of the veterans here have killed bucks that most only dream of. There is a reason for that, they are passing on the smaller bucks. Sometimes one should close their mouths and in turn open their ears. If you are hunting for only meat, which at times we all do....pass on the young buck and take the doe. If you are looking for antlers, pass the lil bucks and look for the mature deer. I do however agree with Joe Archer, in any area that has been wiped out, you may indeed be better off taking a small buck like he did, and let the doe walk so she can reproduce. Btw Joe, nice post....been there too.

 

...If anyone here thinks that their 140 class buck, or 6 point from that year was more of a trophy; I could beg to differ with ya!...

Outstanding post JA! Years ago I shot a forkie late in the season on one of the nastiest days you can imagine...very high wind, blowing snow/sleet, etc. Most guys had given up for the season. I wasn't seeing squat, so in thinking through the conditions, I went specifically to a bedding zone where I knew some smarter deer would be laying up on the downwind side out of the wind. I jumped that forkhorn from his bed in the high weeds and dropped him at 20 yards. As I got to him, I said similar things as you did...in most years, he would've been passed up. I've shot a ton of bigger bucks, but that will always be one of the most rewarding hunts I've had.

 

Outstanding post JA! Years ago I shot a forkie late in the season on one of the nastiest days you can imagine...very high wind, blowing snow/sleet, etc. Most guys had given up for the season. I wasn't seeing squat, so in thinking through the conditions, I went specifically to a bedding zone where I knew some smarter deer would be laying up on the downwind side out of the wind. I jumped that forkhorn from his bed in the high weeds and dropped him at 20 yards. As I got to him, I said similar things as you did...in most years, he would've been passed up. I've shot a ton of bigger bucks, but that will always be one of the most rewarding hunts I've had.

I have a ?

Did you guys have these bucks mounted? Full or just Antler?

 

Ok lets get this straight I pop at leasty a 7-8 point every year, thats a fact! out of the same deer stand on state land, Cant help it if I have the spot, and I do my part in harvesting does also, Hell i take at least 2 of those also when I have the tags. I DO NOT SHOOT BUTTON BUCKS not enough meat on a small deer doe or button for me to waste my tag! I do not believe in QDM My wifes family has a 180 acres in the qdm and I see enough big bucks, Everyone has there own brain you wanna shoot a spike shoot one you want to feed your family feed them, you want to take a bigger buck put the time in and wait for 1. I am a very good hunter with lots of patience and i have a hell of a spot, and I put alot of time into my hunting spot. Granted I do not have all my larger bucks in the books, but there are a few of mine in there that have went 140+. These threads are kind of ridiculous sometimes, do what ya want to! Quit complaining and trying to tell all hunters what they can shoot and what they cant. WOW:tdo12:

 

I have a ?

Did you guys have these bucks mounted? Full or just Antler?

See there's the bottom line right there...ya know how many I have mounted? Zero! Not even the 15 pointer, because mounts mean zip to me. And I've shot a lot of 'em in 35 years of hunting.

Everyone is out in the woods for a different reason, and you clearly stated you're looking for a big boy, and you go out of state to increase your odds. That's your perogative...more power to you.

Now let's you and I just say we "agree to disagree" and not go any further with this jousting, 'kay? We're boring the &$%# outta everyone.:evilsmile

 

Hey all you QDM guys!!!

The guys who shoot teenage bucks are darn proud of it- you guys are just being mean.:gaga:

I have personally seen kids who like to shoot chipmunks and they are proud too. So just leave us all alone....BOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!:lol:

 

Ok lets get this straight I pop at leasty a 7-8 point every year, thats a fact! out of the same deer stand on state land, Cant help it if I have the spot, and I do my part in harvesting does also, Hell i take at least 2 of those also when I have the tags. I DO NOT SHOOT BUTTON BUCKS not enough meat on a small deer doe or button for me to waste my tag! I do not believe in QDM My wifes family has a 180 acres in the qdm and I see enough big bucks, Everyone has there own brain you wanna shoot a spike shoot one you want to feed your family feed them, you want to take a bigger buck put the time in and wait for 1. I am a very good hunter with lots of patience and i have a hell of a spot, and I put alot of time into my hunting spot. Granted I do not have all my larger bucks in the books, but there are a few of mine in there that have went 140+. These threads are kind of ridiculous sometimes, do what ya want to! Quit complaining and trying to tell all hunters what they can shoot and what they cant. WOW:tdo12:

For starters, no ones complaining and I could care less what size buck someone shoots. Everyone has a choice in what they take....I'm the first one to congratulate a hunter, regardless of buck size. But to come on here posting go ahead, pass those small bucks so you can shoot them and you shoot 2 every year and saying "do what ya want" sounds like pure selfishness and you've no interest in whats best for the herd. If I have this impression wrong, I stand corrected. I and many others ARE interested in the health of the herd and doing what's best for them. We have legitimate issues with sex ratios, age structure and overpopulation. You don't have to believe in QDM, but I'm willing to bet you also know very little what it's about. I'll ask you this, are you or have you ever been concerned about the health and other issues of the deer herd? Do you know the effects these issues can have?

 

See there's the bottom line right there...ya know how many I have mounted? Zero! Not even the 15 pointer, because mounts mean zip to me. And I've shot a lot of 'em in 35 years of hunting.

Everyone is out in the woods for a different reason, and you clearly stated you're looking for a big boy, and you go out of state to increase your odds. That's your perogative...more power to you.

Now let's you and I just say we "agree to disagree" and not go any further with this jousting, 'kay? We're boring the &$%# outta everyone.:evilsmile

I was asking because it seems I have mounted my nicest deer, but not my most memerable ones. I wondered if you guys felt the same, but way to jump the gun

 

I was asking because it seems I have mounted my nicest deer, but not my most memerable ones. I wondered if you guys felt the same, but way to jump the gun

In re-reading your post, yep you're right...it was an honest question. NOT!

Done here...sorry Whit...bye guys!