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If you Google "crossbow bolt" it is defined by them as 16" or less as being a bolt.
I read an article in the fifth edition of Archers Digest that detailed PSE and their attempt at introducing their Starflite 2 crossbow with a short arrow system.That arrow was 6&1/8" long and weighed 525 gr.and used sharpened blades (4) - 1&1/8" diameter(a broad head) on the nock end instead of vanes.Penetration was 40%greater than their standard 22" arrow,and it too was called an arrow..
Original crossbow projectiles had no fletching they were just a wooden bolt. But with the new crossbows we started to fletch the projectile so now it is in fact an arrow and no longer just a bolt !
 

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Seems the consensus on here is that this new crossbow is "too much" - either in technology or price point.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Ravin wouldn't be making this product if there wasn't demand for it. If you personally feel it's "too much", well then don't buy it. Very simple. Doesn't mean those that buy them are wasting their money.

I'm cheap for the most part, but I pay top dollar for high quality outdoor equipment -whether that's crossbows, vertical bows, guns, fishing rods etc. I've got nearly 1,000 custom cranks for walleye that cost double what standard cranks cost. I bet 500 of them have never caught a fish because I tend to run the same ones each time. But gosh darn it, if there's ever a hot bite on a Bandit painted with 8 colors with googly eyes, you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna have one.

For me personally, I'm gonna buy this beast as soon as I find one. Currently shooting a one-year old R29, so PM me if you're looking to buy:).
 

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I don't think it's too much, at least in terms of technology or speed, personally.

Price, yeah. It's not for me - I'm not spending that kind of money so I can shoot a bit farther. Even at 500 FPS you're still going to have string ducking issues once you are out past 40 or 50 yards.

Personally I think the Excalibur TwinStrike is way worse in terms of "being too much" on the technology/spirit of archery front
 

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I don't think it's too much, at least in terms of technology or speed, personally.

Price, yeah. It's not for me - I'm not spending that kind of money so I can shoot a bit farther. Even at 500 FPS you're still going to have string ducking issues once you are out past 40 or 50 yards.

Personally I think the Excalibur TwinStrike is way worse in terms of "being too much" on the technology/spirit of archery front
At 430 fps there is really no issue with ducking at 40 yards. 50 is starting to stretch it.
 

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Seems the consensus on here is that this new crossbow is "too much" - either in technology or price point.

At the risk of stating the obvious, Ravin wouldn't be making this product if there wasn't demand for it. If you personally feel it's "too much", well then don't buy it. Very simple. Doesn't mean those that buy them are wasting their money.

I'm cheap for the most part, but I pay top dollar for high quality outdoor equipment -whether that's crossbows, vertical bows, guns, fishing rods etc. I've got nearly 1,000 custom cranks for walleye that cost double what standard cranks cost. I bet 500 of them have never caught a fish because I tend to run the same ones each time. But gosh darn it, if there's ever a hot bite on a Bandit painted with 8 colors with googly eyes, you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna have one.

For me personally, I'm gonna buy this beast as soon as I find one. Currently shooting a one-year old R29, so PM me if you're looking to buy:).
Are you buying the Electronic version? I'm just curious.

I actually like that feature
 

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If you're going to go dark; why not go all the way? :D
<----<<<
 

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At 430 fps there is really no issue with ducking at 40 yards. 50 is starting to stretch it.
The time it takes an arrow to travel even 100 yards at 400 FPS is staggeringly fast - .75 sec. It's half that at 50 yards. I know that duck is a real thing as I've seen slow motion video, but it's really miniscule when the speed gets that high. I ASSUME that duck is more of a factor on a deer that's already spooky, though. I haven't experienced that yet.

The doe I got at 55 not only didn't duck but she didn't even realize she was hit on a clean pass through, double lung. She kept looking back at the entrance wound as if trying to figure out what was different but that's it - no buck, kick, or run.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app
 

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The time it takes an arrow to travel even 100 yards at 400 FPS is staggeringly fast - .75 sec. It's half that at 50 yards. I know that duck is a real thing as I've seen slow motion video, but it's really miniscule when the speed gets that high. I ASSUME that duck is more of a factor on a deer that's already spooky, though. I haven't experienced that yet.

The doe I got at 55 not only didn't duck but she didn't even realize she was hit on a clean pass through, double lung. She kept looking back at the entrance wound as if trying to figure out what was different but that's it - no buck, kick, or run.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app

A fast bow is no license to start firing arrows at critters routinely out past 50 yards


As staggeringly fast as that arrow speed is, their reaction time is far faster. They can react in 1/10th to 2/10ths of a second.

There's a lot of room to move with the remaining fraction of a second

Alert deer are liable to jump the string at 50+ yards even at 500 FPS. Full stop. You're playing with fire out that far out. Imagine a little aiming uncertainty, compounded with a bit of wind drift, and then top it off with a moving target. You can get in trouble real fast.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/attachments/20201105_174544-jpeg.598649/

BTW I recalled this from your thread (congrats on your first deer!) - according to your recounting of the hunt, your first shot is the high and forward one. That is in no way a double lung. And is not a lethal shot. Thank goodness you had a follow up! Imagine if she HAD ducked a bit. You would have missed clean.

I'm not saying this to bash you - I am just urging a little more caution and respect for the animal and taking an ethical shot within the constraints of your abilities, the equipment's abilities, and the parameters of the shot selection
 

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The time it takes an arrow to travel even 100 yards at 400 FPS is staggeringly fast - .75 sec. It's half that at 50 yards. I know that duck is a real thing as I've seen slow motion video, but it's really miniscule when the speed gets that high. I ASSUME that duck is more of a factor on a deer that's already spooky, though. I haven't experienced that yet.

The doe I got at 55 not only didn't duck but she didn't even realize she was hit on a clean pass through, double lung. She kept looking back at the entrance wound as if trying to figure out what was different but that's it - no buck, kick, or run.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app
A fast bow is no license to start firing arrows at critters routinely out past 50 yards


As staggeringly fast as that arrow speed is, their reaction time is far faster. They can react in 1/10th to 2/10ths of a second.

There's a lot of room to move with the remaining fraction of a second

Alert deer are liable to jump the string at 50+ yards even at 500 FPS. Full stop. You're playing with fire out that far out. Imagine a little aiming uncertainty, compounded with a bit of wind drift, and then top it off with a moving target. You can get in trouble real fast.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/attachments/20201105_174544-jpeg.598649/

BTW I recalled this from your thread (congrats on your first deer!) - according to your recounting of the hunt, your first shot is the high and forward one. That is in no way a double lung. And is not a lethal shot. Thank goodness you had a follow up! Imagine if she HAD ducked a bit. You would have missed clean.

I'm not saying this to bash you - I am just urging a little more caution and respect for the animal and taking an ethical shot within the constraints of your abilities, the equipment's abilities, and the parameters of the shot selection
^^^^ this Mac.. Was going to say the same.. Thought there was a shot, animal that ya had a couple shots.

No way bashing you or shaming you by any means! Ya did better then me this year and I've been at it 25 years !! Deer do & will react out past 30+ yards. **** I've seen em do it at 20 !
 

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A fast bow is no license to start firing arrows at critters routinely out past 50 yards


As staggeringly fast as that arrow speed is, their reaction time is far faster. They can react in 1/10th to 2/10ths of a second.

There's a lot of room to move with the remaining fraction of a second

Alert deer are liable to jump the string at 50+ yards even at 500 FPS. Full stop. You're playing with fire out that far out. Imagine a little aiming uncertainty, compounded with a bit of wind drift, and then top it off with a moving target. You can get in trouble real fast.

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/attachments/20201105_174544-jpeg.598649/

BTW I recalled this from your thread (congrats on your first deer!) - according to your recounting of the hunt, your first shot is the high and forward one. That is in no way a double lung. And is not a lethal shot. Thank goodness you had a follow up! Imagine if she HAD ducked a bit. You would have missed clean.

I'm not saying this to bash you - I am just urging a little more caution and respect for the animal and taking an ethical shot within the constraints of your abilities, the equipment's abilities, and the parameters of the shot selection
If you continue reading through that thread, I THOUGHT that I was high and or forward and got a second shot at the deer. That shot was rushed and placed back. After inspecting the dressed deer, I had determined that my first shot was a double lung. The reason that I was unsure of my first shot was, first and foremost because it was the first deer that I'd ever shot, and this caused the expected adrenaline dump and immediate self doubt.

As for speed, I'll continue to do what I'm comfortable with. If I'm solidly rested and aiming at a deer that isn't wary, I feel easily comfortable at 50 yards. While you may have a lot of experience, my guess is that most of it that's burned into your mind is based on much slower speeds as well as the jumpyness created by the draw. I don't mean any of that in a negative fashion. I'm simply making my decision based on what I'm seeing from my experience with my bow. In the end, in the ideal situation, I would have no qualms about shooting that far or further in the future but the situation dictates that decision.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Michigan Sportsman mobile app
 

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If you continue reading through that thread, I THOUGHT that I was high and or forward and got a second shot at the deer. That shot was rushed and placed back. After inspecting the dressed deer, I had determined that my first shot was a double lung. The reason that I was unsure of my first shot was, first and foremost because it was the first deer that I'd ever shot, and this caused the expected adrenaline dump and immediate self doubt.

As for speed, I'll continue to do what I'm comfortable with. If I'm solidly rested and aiming at a deer that isn't wary, I feel easily comfortable at 50 yards. While you may have a lot of experience, my guess is that most of it that's burned into your mind is based on much slower speeds as well as the jumpyness created by the draw. I find mean any of that in a negative fashion. I'm simply making my decision based on what I'm seeing from my experience with my bow. In the end, in the ideal situation, I would have no qualms about shooting that far or further in the future but the situation dictates that decision.

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Not sure I'd go further. I shoot an R18 and wouldn't go past 50.

Now, under 30 they don't even have time to flinch. At 40 they are as good as dead but they start moving. 50 is my limit... limits are somewhat of a personal thing, but consider that myself and most others here are a bit more experienced in hunting and shooting in general.

"Can" does not equal "should". But I suppose everyone learns from their own mistakes. Many times even though someone else will be waiting to say "I told ya so".
 

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I've shot a pile of deer with a bow. The one thing you learn about bowhunting is that it can be a humbling sport. Often the margin for error is way less than you think it is. The deer is maybe a bit more quartered than you think it is. Wind is swirling. Aim is just a bit off. You estimate the range a little wrong. They react way faster than they have a right to. All of a sudden you're not sure about the shot, and spend all night tracking a deer. And are left with a sickening feeling when you can't find it.

Like SureShot said, can doesn't mean you should, and sometimes you just have to learn the hard way, even if people warn you in advance. Playing with fire, you don't get burned every time. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Yeah, the deer I've shot have been at 300-350 FPS for the most part. But guess what? The timing difference between when the speed of sound gets there vs when the arrow does? It scales. That's the thing about math. My limit is 30 to 35 yards at those speeds, 40 if things are perfect.

More speed does give you a longer effective range but at 450-500 FPS that only is extending out to maybe 50 to be consistently ethical. Yes, occasionally if things line up you can shoot farther. But I implore you to maybe reel that in a bit and be more conservative until you get more experience under your belt. You owe it to the animal
 
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