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Discussion Starter · #2 ·

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Interesting info - something that struck me, that the average Mi hunter only spends 7 days hunting during the regular rifle season.......for some reason I thought it would be higher.
 

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The stats that surprised me are:

Archery hunters put way more pressure on the deer herd than firearm season hunters do. This is cumulative pressure not single day pressure. No wonder why many say the bucks have gone nocturnal by the time firearm season opens. The gap in kill between the two seasons is also narrowing.

Muzzleloader hunters are still killing way more does than bucks. Sure there are less bucks at that time of year but the percentage is over 2:1.

The number of young hunters buying tags really shows up on the bell curve.

Thanks for posting the link.
 

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Thanks LO. Studying that will keep me busy for awhile.
 

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Tornado Jim
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The stats that surprised me are:

Archery hunters put way more pressure on the deer herd than firearm season hunters do. This is cumulative pressure not single day pressure. No wonder why many say the bucks have gone nocturnal by the time firearm season opens. The gap in kill between the two seasons is also narrowing.

Muzzleloader hunters are still killing way more does than bucks. Sure there are less bucks at that time of year but the percentage is over 2:1.

The number of young hunters buying tags really shows up on the bell curve.

Thanks for posting the link.
Pressure is a relative thing. The days spent afield by archers are spread over a 75 day period with a 15 day gun season in between. So the pressure per day of season is 59,124 for archers vs. 252,190 for firearms.
 

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Pressure only applies when hunted.. so if the property is only hunted by firearm hunters than there should be no worries about pressure until its hunted
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
..........

Muzzleloader hunters are still killing way more does than bucks. Sure there are less bucks at that time of year but the percentage is over 2:1.
...........
I believe you should have used the word "antlerless" instead of "doe". Because of the time of the year, a large number of the antlerless deer killed by muzzleloader hunters are button bucks. Some adult bucks are also taken during the muzzle season that have dropped their antlers.
It's a different discussion, but this is why I believe that the DNR should try to harvest more antlerless deer in Sept. during the EAS when almost no button bucks are killed and zero shed bucks.

L & O
 

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I
believe you should have used the word "antlerless" instead of "doe". Because of the time of the year, a large number of the antlerless deer killed by muzzleloader hunters are button bucks. Some adult bucks are also taken during the muzzle season that have dropped their antlers.
You are right I should have said antlerless. L & O where did you find the stats showing that a large number of button bucks and shed antler bucks are killed by muzzleloader hunters? Just curious.
 

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Seasonal hunting pressure by group. See page 17.

47% archers
39% firearm
10% muzzleloader
3% late antlerless
0.76 early antlerless
0.48 youth
0.05 disabled
 

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For the days afield part, and lack of muzzleloading kills:
It is alot easier for archery due to the longer daylight hours.
If the Average joe can get out of work by 3:30 and hunts close its really easy to go out almost every night your wife lets you.
Whereas if you muzzleload and live close you need to be out of work by, what, 2 at the latest to get a decent sit in?
I can hunt 25 days in october and never miss an hour of work bow.
But am really lucky to be able to get out of work early enuff to muzzleload.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As I compared 2010 & 2011 numbers, it looks like Mecosta replaces Tuscola in the Top Ten Total Kill Counties. The other 9 counties remain the same with some moving around in the list. Making the most movement up the list was Lapeer County.

L & O
 

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The stats that surprised me are:

Archery hunters put way more pressure on the deer herd than firearm season hunters do. This is cumulative pressure not single day pressure. No wonder why many say the bucks have gone nocturnal by the time firearm season opens. The gap in kill between the two seasons is also narrowing.

Muzzleloader hunters are still killing way more does than bucks. Sure there are less bucks at that time of year but the percentage is over 2:1.

The number of young hunters buying tags really shows up on the bell curve.

Thanks for posting the link.
The same things surprised you last year.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
.........where did you find the stats showing that a large number of button bucks and shed antler bucks are killed by muzzleloader hunters? Just curious.
I don't have any stats. Doubt that any exist. The one person who would know about any stats would be Munster and his keyboard has been silenced in this forum and the Deer Regulations and Law Forum.
My information comes from 3 deer processors located in the SLP. Two told that about 1/3 of the antlerless deer coming into their business during Dec. are button bucks. The other guy agreed, but said that during the LAS the number was even higher.
If you have hunted the EAS and take your deer into a processor, you never see any fawns....button bucks or doe fawns. Almost no one is going to shoot a button buck in Sept. because they are noticeably smaller than does, even yearling does. That all changes as the season goes along and by Dec. many button bucks will be a bit taller than yearling does.
During the past 3 seasons('09-11) the Michigan antlerless kill was about 215,000 deer. Button bucks will be about 20-22% of that total. Roughly 45,000 button bucks killed each year. I believe that with the right policy, the DNR could cut the button buck kill in half. So what did the DNR do this year.......eliminated the Sept. Youth Antlerless and reduced the EAS from 5 days to 2. And we are to believe that that want to reduce the SLP deer herd and promote and a better buck to doe ratio ?

L & O
 

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I believe that with the right policy, the DNR could cut the button buck kill in half. So what did the DNR do this year.......eliminated the Sept. Youth Antlerless and reduced the EAS from 5 days to 2. And we are to believe that that want to reduce the SLP deer herd and promote and a better buck to doe ratio ?

L & O
Dnr....Do Nothing Right.
We are talking about the state government here.
 

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Why are we worried about BB kills?
Is it because they may be next years buck for some hunter?
I see the BB and dropped antler issues with the LAS as a mute point until the more important issue of population is addressed.
Either way it is not hard to tell a BB from a doe if you take your time before pulling the trigger.

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Why are we worried about BB kills?
Is it because they may be next years buck for some hunter?
I see the BB and dropped antler issues with the LAS as a mute point until the more important issue of population is addressed.
Either way it is not hard to tell a BB from a doe if you take your time before pulling the trigger.

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I like the way you worded your questions, because protecting button bucks, in and of itself, is not a solution. If fewer button bucks shot just means more yearling bucks shot the next year, what have we really gained? More successful hunters with yearling bucks instead of fawns is not addressing any of the concerns many Michigan hunters have.

As noted above, learning to distinguish between a BB and a doe, even late in the year, is not all that hard. One of the things I have shown friends and family, if they are interested, is how to look at the shape of an antlerless deer's head to get a good idea if it's a doe or button buck. Once you show someone they are usually very surprised at how easy this is to do and how obvious it is, especially during archery and gun season, but even later in the year. The key is knowing what to look for and I'm willing to bet just a small percentage of people do. I know I didn't, for a long time. I just waited until there were several deer in a field and shot the largest doe I saw. This is no guarantee, but now that I know a better way of determining, I take my time and check.
 

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Tornado Jim
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Dnr....Do Nothing Right.
We are talking about the state government here.
It is not the state government that is the problem. It is hunters. The government provided a 5 day hunt in September last year that resulted in only 10,892 antlerless deer being killed, or 5% of the total antlerless harvest.

Hunters spent 73,397 days of hunting per 5 days of EAS season. Or 14,679 days of hunting per day of season.

In contrast, firearms season hunters spent 3,782,855 days of hunting per 15 days of season. Or 252,190 days of hunting per day of season.

Hunters in firearms seasons put in 17 times as much effort.

The reason?

Antlers.

The DNR can create all the September days they want to hunt does but guys will not do it because they could give less of a crap about hunting does. They are obsessed with antlers.

Guys who do care about killing does, like me, will do so with or without a special season.
 
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