Unmarked Tip-ups

Discussion in 'IceFishingMichigan.com' started by Kidd17, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. michael marrs

    michael marrs

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    some of this seems rediculous ,and in the case of law, should not be gray. I would think , that in a given family one name would suffice, . When we go out, it is my buddy his wife, and 2 kids, would seem silly to individualize each trap, because generally, we let the kids do the catching
     
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  2. Rainman68

    Rainman68

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    You may get away with setting them up for your kids, but they better be the ones tending a flag up....
     

  3. Flag Up

    Flag Up

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    I don't think you should be diddling in your shack, or at least don't tell anyone! Lol! o_O
     
  4. unclecrash

    unclecrash

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    why not I got windows in there and got my legal number of lines , so you trying to say I cant catch walleye and panfish at same time.
    Not gonna sweat it. been ice fishing for over 20 years and never ever have had a run in with CO or ever seen one on the lakes I fish. If they want to come out after dark come on most are home with there loved ones!!
     
  5. Flag Up

    Flag Up

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    I was teasing you Uncle Crash. A play on words for diddling.
     
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  6. unclecrash

    unclecrash

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    LOL got me!
     
  7. Fishontippydam

    Fishontippydam

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    Again, the law clearly says "owner of tip-up" so if you own the tip-up it must have your name on it. If you tell the CO you are borrowing the tip-up, but attach your information on a tip-up that does not belong to, by language you committed a misdemeanor because it's not your tip-up and it must have the owners info on it. Therefore by language of the law, if you borrow a tip-up, it does not matter if your name is on it or not, as long as the owners name is on it. Guess it depends how the CO asks the question. If he asks "are any of these tip-ups yours" by law, no. If he asks "are you responsible for any of these tip-ups" say yes, but I'm borrowing therefore it has the owners info per written law. And if the officer charges you for not having your name, on a tip-up that is being borrowed, it's safe to assume that the officer out of ignorance for the law, just violated his/her oath and should be brought up on charges him/herself. Because as law enforcement will always tell you "there is no excuse for ignorance"
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  8. Fishontippydam

    Fishontippydam

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    Also wouldn't have more than one individuals info on it. No where does it say "users" or "owners" or "multiple names/info". And if it does have multiple names/info on it, by language of the law, charges could easily brought up by the officer/local district court. Bottom line, best thing to do is to lie to the officer, remove the owners name of the borrowed tip-up, put your name/info on it and tell the officer you own the tip up. Only tend the tip ups with your name/info on it. Don't sit in your car while tip ups are out. Remove tip ups when you go back to shore to potty/warm up ect. Make sure tip ups are in plain sight, and close enough to see in any condition even if a snow squall reduces plain sight. Any deviation of this practice, by language of the law, may subject you to a misdemeanor. Law should say "user or operator" along with "responsible for" somewhere thrown in there too. But hey, thats asking lot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  9. Hart

    Hart

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    I tip-up fish in the canal in front of my house, where they get set about 30 yards away.

    I'd LOVE to debate the meaning of "under direct control" with a CO in any court of law if s/he wanted to cite me simply for failing to "control" them from the comfort of my home, because I can guarantee you they don't write tickets for tip-ups set 30 yards outside a shanty in the middle of a lake.

    Actually, my tip-ups are typically watched by multiple sets of eyes every constantly when we're "house fishing". I check them every several minutes if watching from a shanty out on the lake.

    As far as the name goes, if "owner" isn't defined in the regs (which I don't believe it is) then the name appearing on the tip-ups you're using better be your name or that of a personal acquaintance/friend's that loaned them to you, because you can get bet any CO worth his or her salt will make contact with that person to verify they own them, they know you, and are allowing you to use them. Believe me - they've heard every excuse under the sun. I expect you'd be able to avoid a ticket in that scenario based on the plain language of the law.

    If you buy old, used tip-ups with some stranger's name on them and use them without replacing the old name with yours, that's where you'd run into problems. I use old woodies myself, and have written my name in Sharpie right on the wood on two of them, on the flad on another.
     
  10. Fishontippydam

    Fishontippydam

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    Hart I believe u are confused. This is not civil infraction. It is a misdemeanor. Your first hearing the only time you will get a chance to speak is when asked to plead "guilty/not guilty/no contest" three options only. You choose. If you choose not guilty, the next chance you will get to speak is when the judge asks " do you have/need an attorney?" Two options "yes/no". At that point judge/court will sched a date to proceed. If you choose no attorney you will most likely never get a chance for your side of the story to come out. The only thing you can do is question the officer on the stand. And this won't be his first rodeo (evasion specialists) Maybe a good closing statement. But it won't be enough. You don't get to go back and forth and debate it. It's also difficult to ask yourself questions while on the stand right? And I doubt the prosecuting attorney will aid you with his/her questions. If you get an attorney, do you trust that attorney to ask the questions you want asked? Do you think an attorney will remember those questions? Do you think that attorney cares? In my experiences with attorneys, the most important things are left on the table unsaid. And I hear the same from other people's experience with attorneys, with similar criticism. And most will tell you, the attorney didn't do anything for me. My attorney is worthless ect. Maybe so. But did your attorney get paid regardless? You get it. Now if you are loaded, and prepared to appeal the decision which most likely will be guilty? And start all over in lansing? With your worthless attorney? All the travel, time spent, the stress of not being able to have your point heard by the jury in court? If you are prepared for all this, go for it. Hope you win. But I wouldn't bet on it. I think your best weapon would be (if encountered by law enforcement) is to first smile, welcome the officer while asking how his day is(address him as officer examp, hello officer, yes officer, they like being addressed by proper title). Butter him/her up, maybe the officer won't care because your a great guy with great people skills. Maybe the officer will tell you "from my perspective, your tip ups are not under direct control" play dumb and apologize, reassure it won't happen again and I bet you get off. Start debating it with the CO and you will prob receive a violation just for arguing. This is by design. Why the rule is so vague. So incomplete. It gives the officer the advantage to pick and choose. Also protects the officer. The officer can agree you are right OR the officer can say violation. Regardless the officer won't get into trouble due to lack of specifics within the legislation. Meanwhile you just spent enough $$ that I could live off of for years, without even getting to speak in court about how you perceive the law. And you can't just keep getting misdemeanors with the intent of paying each fine as you get them. It becomes repeated offences. Which is bad trust me. Not good. There is so so so much more that is left out. Just touched the key points. Not sure if all i said is accurate but I'm pretty sure this is "due process" Wish you luck. I would love to live on a lake, let alone have tip ups i could see from my home. If I could endure financially and deal with the stress of a worthless attorney, I would challenge at least once and maybe even appeal at state level, if I lived on a lake. I also like to stand up for what I believe. Mans greatest gift/possession/weapon is knowlege. Like any battle, prepare yourself well. Yet also Determine if it's a battle that can even be won, before charging in recklessly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  11. StumpJumper

    StumpJumper

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    Again.. it is not illegal to sit in your vehicle and watch your tip-ups.
     
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  12. Hart

    Hart

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    I used to work for the DNR, then the DEQ administering various laws.
    I'm not confused.
    And I wouldn't need an attorney to make the argument. I know enough about legal arguments to do it myself.
    I represented my daughter in a speeding ticket case in which she got cited for 29 mph over. I got it reduced to a zero-point charge.
     
  13. Fishontippydam

    Fishontippydam

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    Speeding is civil sir. Correct? Civil you do get a chance to say your side of story to judge without representation. From there judge makes his/her decision. If you dont like the decision you request a jury trial. Misdemeanor is different sir. You go strait to jury trial if a not guilty plead is your choice. Correct? I don't doubt you could represent someone well. No doubt at all. But how do you get your point across, if you can't ask yourself questions on the stand, if you don't have representation to ask those questions? So I must be confused.
     
  14. ibthetrout

    ibthetrout

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    And who's going to a jury trial over unmarked tipups? Richie Rich maybe, but 99% will pay the fine and get on with life. I always thought the law was pretty clear, owners name on the tipup and don't fish more than 3 lines. It's really not that difficult.
     
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  15. unclecrash

    unclecrash

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    Wasting way to much time worrying about this stuff in here , Just go fish ! LOL
     
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