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Something to ponder

Discussion in 'Upland Game hunting, Dogs and dog training' started by Ronnem, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. wirehair

    wirehair

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    The majority of grouse born this spring will never even get it the sights of a shotgun.
     
  2. dauber

    dauber

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    "If" Ronnem was right there wouldn't be any grouse in Michigan since there has been a September 15th opener for long long time and there were many more hunters back then too.
    Get out and enjoy the opener!
     
    troutchops likes this.

  3. birdhntr

    birdhntr

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    Maybe his hunting spots aren't producing birds due to old growth so hence the theory he has manifested.My grouse census in 3 to 5 year growth areas(public land) was 1 bird flushed per Every three minutes labor day weekend.I cover alot of ground with dogs and haven't seen this many birds in years.Carry over rate lol.I do not hunt were I did ten years ago .I follow forest succession religiously!
     
    brdhntr likes this.
  4. bedlyblaster

    bedlyblaster

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    dnj21 likes this.
  5. dnj21

    dnj21

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    Good read bedlyblaster, thank you for sharing. A little older, but probably exactly what 99% of us on this thread would have thought.
    If anyone in RGS has a biologist to check with, I am curious if any more recent studies have been on this.
     
  6. slabstar

    slabstar

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    Ok, I won't shoot the little ones

    giphy.gif
     
  7. Birder

    Birder

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  8. Birder

    Birder

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    Finally someone who agrees with what I have been saying ever since the DNR started the season Sept. 15 rather than Oct. first. For all those who replied wheres the evidence it's simple biology the period up until around the first week of Oct. is when the fall shuffle takes place and the birds spread out to claim new territories. As someone who has hunted these great birds since 1965 using both well trained labs and setters and seen the effects on populations almost immediately after the opener was moved to Sept. 15 I couldn't agree more with what Ronnem wrote. Don't people get it just look at how the DNR has made all seasons longer it's just a con to try and sell more licenses. How silly can it be when they have to run contests to try and get more people into the sport of hunting. As someone who also has worked in the field of biology for over 40 years it's a disgrace to me to see how the DNR has sold there soul. Pure biology is about carrying capacity making sure there is enough left to produce for the future.
    Birder
     
  9. dauber

    dauber

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    Birder,
    I moved to Michigan and hunted from 1982 to present. I've looked at data on flush rates back to 1977, and season opened September 15th. The flush rates from cooperators is very similar to even lower in the 70's than now. If you two were even close to correct they should go down. My personal flush rates are very similar to my 80's rates.
    If the September 15th opener was going to have an effect it surely would have shown up over 40 years.
     
    birdhntr likes this.
  10. Zeboy

    Zeboy

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    Scan0001.jpg Scan0002.jpg


    Here is the DNR pamphlet from the study that was done in the early 1990's
     
  11. Buddwiser

    Buddwiser

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    When I hunted grouse, leaves feared me......grouse....not so much.
     
    Josh R likes this.
  12. birdhntr

    birdhntr

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    for the life of me I can't figure out what spawns these notions you two have come to.But let's try the theory method.Maybe you haven't been very successful,maybe hunting the same areas and the environment has changed and grouse numbers.or someone is hunting your spot beforehand or before you start your personalized season.These comments remind me of the bitter deer hunter that talks of his own management ideas and rules to benefit himself. I don't understand why a post stating that if we hunt grouse early in the season that we are not grouse hunters?Most of us will be out and the rest that can't make it will wish they could.As for numbers the past two seasons I have been seeing more than possibly ever and have been hunting since the late 80's.On another note I find groups of birds at times in November and December.Two years ago I took a limit on December 12,four birds off one point and one at another spot.Out of maybe a dozen times I have limited out it was the always the second week of November or early December and always by myself. I am having hard time making rational sense from this post comparing it to my personal experiences from 30 years of grouse hunting.My dads place he bought in 98 had young pines off the woods in the field with autumn olive planted along it.Then he had the woods harvested and the grouse came in droves.The three of us would walk it and move up to fifty birds in December and have the hunt of a lifetime.Dispersal? Now twenty years later and I might move a couple on a good day but the growth is old,the pines to big and the Autumn olive.I bet if we nocked it all down and did the same setup they would be back again!Habitat is key.When the judge gives them to me I take them.I wouldn't want to insult him and refuse a gift.lol[/QUOTE]
     
    Mr. Uplander, BIGSP and dauber like this.
  13. birdhntr

    birdhntr

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  14. gundogguy

    gundogguy

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    AAA and State Farm Insurance companies would really like to see you guys reduce the numbers of grouse. Grouse/Vehicle claim rates are sky rocketing. Though it was over heard at recent board meeting that the only hope the companies have is that grouse hunters were more efficient with killing birds than those folks pretending to be deer hunters.