Pennsylvania CWD Results are in

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Disease' started by motdean, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Swampdog467

    Swampdog467

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    Sorry, I was just being "that guy". A simple see how numbers can be skewed exercise.

    In reality I'm more in agreement with jatc, funny how man thinks he can really have that great an effect on a disease in a species of animal as wide ranging as whitetail deer.
    Doesn't mean I'm not hopeful that something can be done, just have serious doubts.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Michigan Sportsman mobile app
     
  2. motdean

    motdean

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    Trust me, after the Illinois discussion about sampling, I was looking for the data as well.

    Another thing that poster otcarcher opened my eyes to is the fact that in Wisconsin, most of the disease is still in a certain geographic location. Funny the stuff you can learn.

    Also, after looking at the baiting threads, I can't disagree with either of you.
     
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  3. Lumberman

    Lumberman Premium Member

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    Motdean, you have to agree that these numbers show that what Pennsylvania is doing is clearly not working.

    Unequivocally not working. You could make a better argument that it’s making it worse.

    So Yes “The Plan” should be completely scraped. It’s been proven to have zero effect or maybe actually spread the disease.

    Let’s try baiting, with a 5 on a side APR and zero doe permits. Would positive specimens double every year? Hard to say.

    Or has it always been there and now that we are testing for it we are over reacting?

    I don’t know but what I can clearly is the DNR cut and paste plan had not worked in any state anywhere. Not only does it not work there’s not a single state that can even prove it’s helping.
     
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  4. motdean

    motdean

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    I don't believe that it has been here for a long time. As you are aware, deer start to show clinical signs after 18-24 months. Surely there are doe cohorts out there in that range, and we should have observed at least emaciated does some time ago....and probably some older bucks as well.

    I do believe that jatc hit the nail on the head.

    The issue is having a plan that hunters will follow. ….absent that hunters will follow it, it really isn't a plan.

    I am still not subscribing to "do nothing".
     
  5. RF Pro

    RF Pro Banned

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    Motdean, I'm curious. You've made a point for one reason or another to point out the 2300 sq mile expanded CWD Zone in PA a couple of times now. Why I can only assume. What are your thoughts on the ~8000+ sq miles Michigan added in a single year?
     
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  6. jr28schalm

    jr28schalm

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    Going to have to change your name, slowdean. Lol
     
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  7. jr28schalm

    jr28schalm

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  8. Hillsdales Most Wanted

    Hillsdales Most Wanted

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    THE HILLSDALE
    The 2 positive deer in jackson co caused 4 counties to be added to the management zone approximately 2800 square miles
     
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  9. RF Pro

    RF Pro Banned

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    Keep looking.
     
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  10. Nostromo

    Nostromo Premium Member

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    Hey, ya forgot da buck's 'eh? Sure it's an inconvenience to have to get your deer tested. But it's provides badly needed data for the research. So, field testing for hunters is not going to be very helpful in the long run.

    Lumberman, you're looking at this all wrong. It's not realistic to think we can halt or eradicate a communicable disease without a comprehensive vaccination program. But we can certainly learn more about it's effects and transmission. Surveillance, gathering data and overlaying the spread pattern with other known patterns may actually reveal the vector behind it. This may also teach us that there is not one or several vectors. Rather that this disease simply developed and is spreading as some suspect simply by deer to deer contact. Either way, we are new to the study of wildlife and as time goes on we get better at learning about it. So, if well meaning folks could pipe down and let the scientist do their work. We may just come up with something.

    Good luck this season.
     
  11. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    I don't believe it is possible to vaccinate against a prion disease.
     
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  12. Lumberman

    Lumberman Premium Member

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    Agreed. I don’t think anyone is against surveillance and data gathering.

    It’s the more intrusive management moves that cause these debates. That being said it’s the same old APR debate for some.

    Where we disagree is CWD is not some brand new disease that needs to be studied.

    The thing I can not wrap head around personally is the complete lack of body count. Even in areas with huge prevalence there’s very little to no body count. If EHD hits your area there’s a body count.
     
  13. Forest Meister

    Forest Meister

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    An analogy: Some are surely familiar with the devastation caused by something called the Emerald Ash Borer (EAB).

    When EAB was discovered in Michigan (the first place in the nation) both the state and federal governments spent money like it was going out of style in an effort to contain it. EAB still spread.

    Quarantines were put into place. EAB spread even further in the LP.

    Quarantine areas were enlarged and disjunct populations attacked by felling and burning or chipping untold numbers of ash within a given area. A massive and expensive ad campaign was also initiated informing folks on the dangers of EAB and how to stop its spread. EAB continued to move seeming relatively undeterred.

    Firewood drop-off areas were well publicized and people were hired to inspect wood at the bridge in an effort to keep the pest out of the UP. Guess what happened in spite of everything thrown at it.

    When EAB pockets appeared in the UP almost obscene amounts of money were spent in the form of wages, overtime, contractors, special projects, etc. Again uncounted numbers of trees were destroyed in an effort to eradicate EAB before it got a toehold. It still marched across the UP.

    Other states did, and are doing, the same things that Michigan did when EAB was discovered within their borders and very, very sadly they are all obtaining the exact same final results. The definition of insanity attributed to both Einstein and Ben Franklin can surely be applied to the eradication and control efforts aimed at EAB: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

    Not exactly the same but there are striking similarities in the way EAB and CWD can be and are moved about by both man and nature so surely the above definition of insanity can be applied toward the efforts to eradicate and control CWD as well as EAB. FM
     
  14. kisherfisher

    kisherfisher

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    We cannot control the herd mentality of the whitetail, period. They will co-mingle , spread whatever disease is in the herd, regardless of our manmade interruptions. We need to be able to diagnose the carriers, and eliminate. IMPOSSIBLE TASK. I have watched , from my semi rural, subdivision in Monroe Co, a few deer sightings throughout the year. This winter , our late cold spell that hit , brought together a herd of 40 plus deer to 40 acre cut bean field behind my house.The pushed, nuzzled, bedded, urinated, dedicated,bumped , grazed over each for 2 weeks in this field and a smaller woodlot. If one deer was a carrier of CWD or any other communicable disease, the majority are now effected. How can regulations stop this ? Impossible !
     
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  15. Waif

    Waif

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    "Where are the bodies" is a question that comes up.

    Where are the bodies of dead black bears? They exist don't they?
    Do we find each dead deer and know the cause of death?

    With EHD we have a rapid short duration die off. (Rapid infection of high numbers of deer followed by short term carrying of infection.)

    With CWD , infection rate and time of carrying infection until fatal are staggered. Slower but still existing.
    A deer pulled apart by coyotes and found in spring during an antler hunt could have succumbed to multiple things.
    Without testing it's not always a sure cause of mortality as guessed by who ever finds it.

    What effect does health of an individual deer have on susceptibility?
    Are better feeding deer less susceptible?
    Are run down bucks more vulnerable?
    Is prion accumulation (repeated exposure) required in healthier deer before proteins get altered?
    Lots of questions we await knowledge about.
    One or two percent mortality rate (just a grabbed from thin air figure) caused by CWD does not mean piles of dead deer. Depending of course on how many deer exist on a given area.
    Where they die may not be similar to EHD dying deer seeking water.
    (What are/were EHD infection rates of found dead deer not near water bodies/rivers lakes ect.?)
    The concentration and sheer numbers found near water make/made them noticeable.