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Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Management' started by shell waster, Sep 12, 2020.
That's pretty impressive. Are you the only one that hunts your 40 or do others as well?
Oh Lord!!! U trying to start an argument
Pretty simple question no argument imo. Does he let his dad,kids,friends hunt or is it all to him solo hunting? All this makes a huge difference.
Again, you seem to be missing the answers to your own questions, lol. The guys practicing qdm are separated. We have plenty of "brown, it's down guys all over the block. Of course the more neighbors you have on board the better. Of course the more bucks that are passed, the better. Who is arguing that?
You made a trolling statement about ten year old bucks on tiny properties, lol. So now 200+ would be enough for you? Thought it was a thousand in Iowa/w neighbors help? Or was it 700 in MI? Let's see, in my case that's 240 out of 1280 acres in the two blocks I'm counting. The gap is likely way more in surrounding blocks. We have high deer density. So in all honesty, if some neighbors kill some 1.5s, don't care.
The OP's question was how many acres for "some version of qdm?" Yet again, something you do and believe in, but always want to argue against, sighting "the neighbors." Can't make it up.
Anyway, rant over, lol. Good luck to you and your family this season. Always like the pics of those great "jungle bucks."
My stepson as well. He's about to turn 18. Needs some work on his patience, lol. Pressure is fairly high on neighboring properties.
Correct, pressure is a huge factor. We try to hunt carefully for the most part. Particularly in October.
The word "manage" feels burdensome to me. It feels like another way to turn something I love into a chore to be fulfilled.
The way I think of things is I'm going to seek to have a positive influence doing certain projects and activities that I enjoy and not getting bogged down with things I don't enjoy. We hunt numerous properties and in each case we're just trying to make it a place where both hunters and deer enjoy spending time.
Hay King, 4 of us on 49 acres. We do well, very hard but it can be done
Very hard but it can be done is the answer. Now hunt that property all to yourself and see what happens.
Sorry for getting ya mad Dish.
U bring up a great point that I have battled for 12 years now, DPSM. The more deer in your area the more 1.5s to make it past the orange army. Dpsm could very well be more important than how many acres one owns.
A lot of factors. I know people that lease their fencelines around them because if they didn't they wouldn't get that mature buck. Nobody likes the truth but it is what it is.
No problem. I just let the "spoiled" comment trigger me, lol. The rest is just debating opinions.
That said low dpsm may mean less orange army...and back to start lol.
I don't agree on a theoretical property size being the factor in being able to manage deer.
What deer are removed is part of it. As is the deer replacing them. If they are being replaced.
To consistently kill older bucks where older bucks are constantly removed , and recruits to replace them are few , is dependent on hunter skill and type participation in those bucks range.
IF twelve guys drive the same forty every morning and kill all bucks , managing for dead bucks on sight would be the management style.
That's what bugs me most about arguments about how to have older bucks , while older bucks are killed.
Each property is unique.
IF you have two older target worthy (per management goals) then you have two.
That could be on ten or ten hundred acres. It's still a finite number.
You remove one and have one left. Or take both. What's replacing them?
Fawns are. If any deer are.
Should any of the two older (four year old for the sake of argument) theorized bucks be taken if no proof of three year olds exist? Or two year olds? Yearlings? Fawns?
Otherwise we're waiting to get lucky and kill the oldest buck and call it success.
Last year was the first mandatory A.P.R. in my area.
This year was largest buck sighting. And no , it was not a yearling last year.
What does that mean? Great management? Habitat? Hunter restraint? My land holding is vast enough to keep a buck from leaving it?
No . It means an older buck was wandering around.
Hunters like Dish (that's almost an insult Dish) passing up the bucks he does means he is not managing them by removing them. With obvious results.
We add ten hunters taking any buck off his site and what is being managed for?
Ten acres can offer more than the wrong hundred.
A mile square could help manage a herd better. So could fifteen miles.
But each parcel would have parcels adjacent.
If recruits are not staggered in their upcoming ages consistently , kills of older bucks will be erratic.
Killing less older bucks will in cases result in numbers not declining as rapidly, as each removed brings management a step farther in reduction of the targeted resource.. while the resource goal (older bucks) is being defeated by it's own management.
Minimum acreage is that on which a deer is on alive. Once dead , it is no longer managed.
Existing numbers of older bucks . Hunter numbers. Kill numbers allowed. Recruits staged by age to replace removed bucks. All factor.
Hunters either are , or are not managed. But it makes a big difference on results which they are. And how much acreage of what type in what location in what region factors too.
But is secondary in buck age if management does not consider recruits replacing deducted older bucks.
With borders , the same principles apply. Hunter numbers. Success in participation. Recruits of deer left to replace deductions....
Having a desired by deer habitat can help. But deer are free to roam. And many do.
The rule of thumb when pressured is to evade on home turf. That can envelop a lot of ground.
Yet disturbed ground removed from the equation reduces range.
Now we're back to hunter numbers and participation.
Usually only me on mine, Jake on his, Mike occasionally invites hunters (like me, LOL).