Michigan State Study

Discussion in 'Gear Restrictions and Trout Fishing Regs' started by Ranger Ray, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Ranger Ray

    Ranger Ray Smells like, Victory! Premium Member

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    Whatever happened to the study on fishermen attitude and direction, the state was doing several years back, TU helped fund? Never heard the results.
     
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  2. toto

    toto

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    Me niether weird huh???
     

  3. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    Preliminary results were presented at a CRSC meeting, I believe both Steve Mondrella and Don Wright were there so you could ask them. My recollection is that the survey answers showed that the GR water would have light pressure and they were going to go back and confirm that with creel census surveys. Never heard anything more.

    Iirc the study was funded with a grant from TU, overseen by the DNR, designed and run by MSU professor Dr. Frank Lupi.
     
  4. Sparky23

    Sparky23

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    Kazoo? What percentage of guys in the state that fish fly fish? Or fly fish trout? Guessing under 10 ..do you know? How old are you kazoo?
     
  5. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Under 10% fly fish? How sad if it's true.
     
  6. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    I don’t know. What does that have to do with protecting resources ? Straw man argument.
     
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  7. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Nothing. It's an art form in itself and I hate to see those die off. It can also be a way more effective method of fishing than most others.
     
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  8. Ranger Ray

    Ranger Ray Smells like, Victory! Premium Member

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    Protecting the resource is done by limits. This notion that fly's only is needed to "protect the resources," is a straw man, pushed by the fly guys, to get special areas on our rivers, for their gear type only. The fly only water was put in place by crony legislation, not science. Time to get rid of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  9. mfs686

    mfs686

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    Here we go......
     
  10. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Why? Do you hate art? Are you not able to use a fly rod? Don't like a challenge? Don't like using one of the most effective means of taking fish?

    What wrong with setting aside some portions of streams for fly only?

    Before you ask, yes, I USED to fly fish, I don't any longer. I don't even trout fish anymore, except once in a while for steelhead and only on the Huron. So the regs don't affect me.
     
  11. Ranger Ray

    Ranger Ray Smells like, Victory! Premium Member

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    Ah, I fly fish. Challenge has nothing to do with it. It has to do with how and why the fish are feeding, that I choose my gear.

    There should be no fly's only water, because there is no scientific reason for it. Our government is mandated to manage for all. All gear should be able to share in the resources, unless deemed necessary for the survival of a species. The fact there are 100's of rivers that are near metropolises, that allow all legal gear, get pounded, yet the fish survive, is evidence fly's only is not needed for survival of species, but limits are. Should we start reserving areas for special interests? For one who proclaims the ills of government control, I find it interesting you do not see the same here. Once you start dividing outside of science, but for special interests, cronyism and corruption, control who is the privileged and who isn't. Unfortunately we see this with fly's only. Some of the best accessible river stretches to the wader, are controlled by fly only gear. Yet today, we even charge the bait fishermen for trout stamps. Now that is what you call a great setup. Make the bait fisherman pay for trout waters, and then keep them from it. I have some swamp land for sale.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  12. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    How much for the swamp land? LOL!

    I don't even like to fish in most of Michigan's streams anymore, fly fishing, or otherwise. I am tired of the mess, the slobs, those who don't have a clue about fishing etiquette, etc.

    I have fished some amazing streams in my day, none of them were in Michigan. We should be ashamed of what our streams and rivers look like, and how they are abused.

    You guys can do what ever you want. I don't care anymore. I won't be attending meetings where you may be affected, won't be answering surveys, etc.

    I will just sit back and ignore what goes on, and spend less and less of my time and money here.

    Keep an eye out, I may just be selling off all of my fly fishing gear in the near future. I have a REALLY nice Sharpes "Scottie "88" 5/6 weight rod. It is VERY slow, flexing down to the handle. It can cast the most wonderful, tight, loop you have ever seen. It is very easy to control and quite accurate.
     
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  13. Sparky23

    Sparky23

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    It has alot to do with it. Why dont you enlighten us on what percentage fly fishes. You are so blinded by your liberalness that you cant see that it is not right to limit something everyone of us pays for to a tiny percentage of people. Its ljke saying ok. No walleye fishing sag bay unless you only troll with body baits. Why not a make a long hair hippy only section of river. Or a push button only section of river. Most that use push buttons dont trout fish so it would greatly reduce trout mortality. Lets try to push it through from green cottage to 37. Sounds stupid doesnt it.
     
  14. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    Did the DNR's most recent study on trout limits find that a higher limit/increased mortality damaged both size and structure? Yes.

    Are some methods of fishing more likely to have high delayed mortality rate? Yes.

    Even with a low delayed mortality rate is a more popular area going to have higher numbers of fish killed? Yes.

    Managers have to account for total mortality, both natural and angler related. This means taking all the above into account.

    The simple fact of the matter is that it is about predator prey balance. People are predators. The DNR is using limits/people predation to reduce fish in some areas; most obviously right now in Sag Bay. They are using limits and gear restrictions to reduce predation by people in other areas; muskie and sturgeon come to mind.

    The argument that liberal rules haven't wiped out the fish in some places therefore restrictive rules are not needed is a false dichotomy. Either the population is destroyed or there is no problem are not the only options. Controlling human predation maintains fish size and structure. Over fishing encourages smaller fish to reach sexual maturity and never grow bigger. It pushes total population below the carrying capacity.

    Now we have the PETA straw man that any fishing damages the resource. Balderdash. Properly managed fishing does not damage the resource no matter what PETA says. Everyone who has even the slightest understanding of management knows that. But when the facts are against you untruths and logical fallacies like those above and poisoning the well with personal attacks are all you have left.
     
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  15. Ranger Ray

    Ranger Ray Smells like, Victory! Premium Member

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    Limits are used to manage fish populations for future generations. Nothing wrong with lower ones if deemed necessary. It's an end sum game, has been my whole life. What isn't scientifically needed, is fly's only water. It's why it was passed by crony politics. Time to end fly's only.
     
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