Is Questioning The DNR's Deer Data and Statistical Analysis Something New?

Discussion in 'Michigan Whitetail Deer Hunting' started by Luv2hunteup, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. Nick Adams

    Nick Adams

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    Better hurry. The softwood pulpwood market has been smoking hot lately.

    -na
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2015
  2. Midalake

    Midalake Banned

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    How timely you are Nick. I have two foresters out next week to look at about 150 acres up in the FMP.

    So how hot is hot? How are bolt prices? How long can I lock a price down? With gas coming down and winter snow depths slowing loggers down will the price increase in the spring?

    Even pm me with thoughts?

    Good time for some regeneration......Eh....
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014

  3. Whit1

    Whit1 Premium Member

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    Thanks for the simple explanation of what goes on. Being a past moderator in these forums I watched, for many years, the discussions that go on concerning this thread's topic. What you state is true. Michigan's method of estimating the harvest works. The MDNR has years of data for comparison. Your comments above are spot on and the last paragraph could be copy/pasted several times to every "harvest number" thread that comes up.

    Good job!
     
  4. Whit1

    Whit1 Premium Member

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    That about sums it up. Too many egos get in the way of an effective thought process.
     
  5. Cork Dust

    Cork Dust

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  6. Cork Dust

    Cork Dust

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    Please read what I said. Dave I was asked for suggestions on what SHOULD occur not what IS occuring in UP whitetail management. I did state what programs are in place, like the Wildlife Division's initiative to provide private landowners with a management plan for the holding to increase wildlife diversity and density.

    http://ww2.dnr.state.mi.us/publicat...abitat/reports/wld-library/3200-3299/3254.pdf

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_36649-118244--,00.html

    State Senator Casperson has manuevered himself into the chairman position of a commitee controlling the "purse strings" of the MDNR that enabled him to place a hold on any land purchases until an inventory of what is held and what is held for is completed. Having been present at three meetings with the Senator and his staff, to say he has an axe to grind with the Forestry Division and DEQ is a huge understatement of his personal perspective.

    His current pet project is an offroad vehicle/ ATV/UTV corridor across the UP.
     
  7. Waif

    Waif

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    Yes thanks Cork Dust.
    Some very informative posts.
    As written, thermal cover and woody browse factored strong when herd was up in U.P.. Diverse as habitat is across the region they still factor highly and show an example of carrying capacity in areas migration is required for survival. Quite a switch from other more southerly areas, yet not seeming a focus of concern.
    The knowledge you share is out there but like belling the cat few are promoting a solution financially.
     
  8. Luv2hunteup

    Luv2hunteup

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    Isn't Casperson the one who wants to give huge discounts to non residents while making Michigan residents pay full price for licenses?
     
  9. Midalake

    Midalake Banned

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    Since the UP [ at least ] stopped becoming a non-resident destination about 10 years ago......

    Maybe the only ones that are coming back are family to visit? So Casperson is just looking for the family discount :evilsmile
     
  10. Midalake

    Midalake Banned

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    OK More "hope" got it.......

    On those same lines this is your quote from post #185.

    I can't impact the wolf population in the UP. What I can do is to focus on improving carrying capacity via habitat stabilization and manipulation via DRIP moneies, as well as additional base license sales revenues by buying a Combo license and not using more than one tag on a buck.

    My self and many here have wanted to go with the 1 buck tag. Right now post deer season of 2014 I feel a greater need to even be more vocal on this topic.

    But you acknowledge that the resource is not capable of withstanding 2 bucks being harvested, YET you would like this option to fill MDNR coffers.

    Is this not doing the same thing expecting better results? Which is actually failing the resource!

    I guess I cannot understand donating to the MDNR for something that might be hurting the resource AND making a donation for failed policies that have lead the UP to where it is now.

    SERIOUS changes have to come in 2015 if we are to see any difference in 2016!!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2015
  11. Cork Dust

    Cork Dust

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    I view the combo license as a season extension ticket that allows me the discretion of hunting after I kill a buck. Last year I saw five bucks and never pulled the trigger on any of them. This year I saw six bucks total from bow through gun season.

    Personally, I think the current deer license fee is still too low,but that is another point for discussion in another thread. Where I completely disagree with the MDNR is not whether shooting two bucks will harm the herd en toto, where I see it impacting the herd(particularly with the horrible declines that have occurred in "winter deer concentration complexes" as they label them) is shifting the age structure of the buck population significantly toward the current 1.5 YO buck HEAVILY dominated herd. With this buck population segment structure, these guys do nearly all the breeding,dropping 25lbs on average and then go into a winter where they need much larger daily calories over and above their maintenance needs ration, since they are still growing. I have grown very tired of the hearing the mantra my local wildlife biologist chants, "you can't stockpile deer in the UP because of winter severity associated mortality"! (this sounds more like a parroted statement than a thoughtful and focused comment from a steward of the resource) My response is,"Well, you shouldn't set the herd structure up in such a fashion that you have to rely of a high herd reproductive capacity to offset the high numbers of yearling bucks lost to starvation and starvation related predation. " Brian avoids me when he sees me coming...

    Terry Minzey is another gentlemen I would like to see retire from the Wildlife Division.

    Dave, I won't tell you where I hunted, but I saw a second buck on two occasions that was an 8-9, with a rack just outside his ears. I left him alone(I saw no sign of another hunter in there and covered my tracks by walking in via a stream channel in hip boots and then switching over to my still hunting stuff), but I will hunt him hard next year,assuming he survives. Afterall,he survived the winter of 2013-14, but then again, he was a 3.5YO buck and not a 1.5YO.

    The Multi-county APR area in the northern lower peninsula is a broad departure from years past.

    Earlier, I said I hunt down in DMU 155 a fair amount. This is a DMU with a ton of little 40-60acre parcels with very high hunter density and high buck kill rates in all seasons. I haven't talked to anyone in the MDNR on this, but If I were managing this unit I would have likely issued a similar number of private land antlerless permits (1,500) simply to get the sex ratios back down around nearer 3:1 from the 7-9:1 doe to buck ratio the likely existed in spring-winter range at stake as well as the resident herd segment.

    You opt to see the Wildlife Division as an enemy. My approach it to view them as "coachable". I always expect the initial response to be,"Where are we going to get the money?" Oddly, as you move them along a source for funding usually develops. Although Man is likely the most adaptive critter on this planet, collectively and individually he shuns change. Why would you expect an ingrained bureaucrat to behave any differently? Many of these folks sought this economic sector with the base hope and perspective to never be held responsible for their actions and productivity!
     
  12. Midalake

    Midalake Banned

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    Why do you have to write so verbose that I have to read and reread three times to maybe get a hint of what you are saying..... Thus leaving you an escape path of baffling "them" with BS or I "didn't quite mean that" Spit it the FK out man.....

    Brian should hide from everyone, and there is more than one person that should retire.

    Is it time to can the Combo Tag for the UP and go with one buck tag. YES/NO..........[remember people contributing is just not realistic to fix anything ]

    Just want to add my reason for concern is the lack of 1.5 y/o bucks here....also being echoed by many. My numbers are at a 20 year low for sightings.

    You differed to unit 155....I m going to go out on a limb and say 155 is most likely well below any current or old DPSM values or wintering capabilities..........IF that is true then would not the correct response be to limit buck harvest to one per person to allow buck to doe ratios become more in balance? Rather than lower an already below target value for total deer? Just because you did not pull the trigger does not mean two knuckle heads "banged two" because, well........they can........

    I think when the final revenue/deer license numbers are posted there is going to be a surprise.

    PS I do not see the "Wildlife Division as an enemy" Slow to respond and ill informed but not the enemy.....maybe an adversary [enemy light version]
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  13. hartman756

    hartman756

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    What study did you get this from?
     
  14. swampbuck

    swampbuck

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    Brian is not the cervid guy anymore, the guy from Indy is.
     
  15. Trophy Specialist

    Trophy Specialist Banned

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    My guess is its Brian Rowell.