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.....Here’s a dilemma , I think. ........

Discussion in 'Political Discussions (FreeMichigan.com)' started by fairfax1, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. fairfax1

    fairfax1

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    Here’s a dilemma , I think.

    Say you are a long rooted family from Virginia, or South Carolina. You have ancestors who served bravely and with distinction in the Civil War. You have some reservoir of pride in the statues of Stonewall, of Robert E., or the display of the Stars & Bars. Your family has done well since 1865, you are upstanding respectable ‘Americans’. You hold your head high. The Civil War was a long time ago, but you hold it with some pride because of the quality of your ancestors.

    And then today. In Charlottesville.

    Now you have the KKK, the new Nazi’s, the ‘white supremacist’. the ‘white nationalists’, who have appropriated your Stars & Bars, who violently defend the removal of those statues of Forrest, of Lee. And they look awful on TV doing it ----sieg heil chants, stiff armed Nazi salutes, anger and hostility demonstrated. Murder even, what with that speeding car.

    So what do you do now? You are proud of your family’s service to a cause they thought was right at the time, but now, with Charlottesville, your ancestors and that flag are linked with the people and an ideology that most of America finds repugnant. Far, far more repugnant than that old timey Civil War slave stuff. These are Hitler fans. These are Jew haters. These are Negro haters. These are haters of non-Christians.

    Not really your cocktail party crowd.

    What do you do? Do you take down your Stars & Bars? Do you firmly announce, “those people are reprehensible”...and it is a tragedy that they have appropriated/adopted our symbols of 'Southern Pride'?
    .........................................................

    As an aside. Really, as my own personal opinion. This Charlottesville tragedy may be a big....BIG friggin' nail in the White Nationalist's coffin.

    They will linger, of course, but from a PR standpoint .....they just sh*t in their boot.

    And then, from a different perspective, do these proto-Nazis go back to work on Monday and pridefully announce they participated in the Friday night rally?
     
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  2. Jimbos

    Jimbos

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    Kissing the rearend of the hands out special interest crowd has run it's course, people are standing up for what they believe in and good for them.
    It goes both ways, suck it up.
     

  3. fairfax1

    fairfax1

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    From post #2:
    "Kissing the rearend of the hands out special interest crowd has run it's course, people are standing up for what they believe in and good for them.
    It goes both ways, suck it up."
    .......................................................................................................

    Well, let's be tolerant of some reactionary posts.
    It is Saturday night.
    Gettin' late too.
    Mischief on the internet can occur.
    Recklessness too.

    None of us (I think) want to believe that other correspondents on this venue condone Nazi salutes; condone Hitler love; condone white supremacist nut jobs running down people in the street with a car.

    I'm fairly confident that that degree of non-"sucking up" is not what the previous post wished to leave us with.
     
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  4. Jimbos

    Jimbos

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    Break er down, the tide has turned it's the snowflakes on the defensive for the next 7 1/2 years, get used to it.
     
  5. jps

    jps

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    How mant Americans died fighting to uproot nazism from Europe?

    And now, some americans are supporting the new age nazism called "Alt right" or "white nazionalism".

    Some Americans now are waving flags with symbols and colors inspired in the nazi symbols that many of the past generations in this country gave their life fighting against

    Shameless
     
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  6. Creek-Chub

    Creek-Chub

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    Come on, man. You're a decent guy. Maybe the opposition is full of women's study transgender SJW freaks. I'll grant the possibility. But Nazi salutes equate to standing up for what you believe in? You're better than that.

    Sometimes I think our posts on here should have to pass the kid test. Meaning, would you be proud to teach your kids about what you post? It would keep some things in check.
     
  7. TK81

    TK81

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    A PR standpoint? Are you friggin kidding? These idiots don't give a rat's a** about PR.

    There's idiots on the left, and there's idiots on the right. Always has been and always will be. Most of the rest of us are somewhere under the bell curve. Ya know, I'm slightly to the left of center and you are slightly to the right...but we're both inside.
     
  8. fairfax1

    fairfax1

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    "..... I'm slightly to the left of center and you are slightly to the right...but we're both inside."

    Nice wordsmithing.
    A tip of the hat.
     
  9. WMU05

    WMU05

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    Those people should realize their ancestors fought for enslaving their fellow human beings (read the articles of secession* for most any southern state if you disagree with what they were fighting for), and have the humility to remove their homages from the public square and put them in a museum where they belong.

    Those statutes glorify traitors...and losers. In no other realm of our history do we celebrate those characteristics. And if they want to keep flying a flag from that wretched period, it should be the only one that matters...white.

    *The closing words from Georgia's Ordinance of Succession...
    Because by their declared principles and policy they have outlawed $3,000,000,000 of our property in the common territories of the Union; put it under the ban of the Republic in the States where it exists and out of the protection of Federal law everywhere; because they give sanctuary to thieves and incendiaries who assail it to the whole extent of their power, in spite of their most solemn obligations and covenants; because their avowed purpose is to subvert our society and subject us not only to the loss of our property but the destruction of ourselves, our wives, and our children, and the desolation of our homes, our altars, and our firesides. To avoid these evils we resume the powers which our fathers delegated to the Government of the United States, and henceforth will seek new safeguards for our liberty, equality, security, and tranquillity.
     
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  10. petronius

    petronius

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    A lot of people are PO'd that the Nazis appropriated the swastika for their own purpose. They used it for about 20 years and gave it a corrupted meaning.
    Same as these nut cases are doing with historical monuments.
     
  11. fairfax1

    fairfax1

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    From #9: "Those statutes glorify traitors...and losers. In no other realm of our history do we celebrate those characteristics."
    ..........................................................................................

    Well, yes, there is that northern perspective.
    Not without traction.

    But for us Yankees to scold over the Stars & Bars or a Bedford Forrest's statue can get a little bit too fussy over details. Those who live there....and I have in mind the black population most especially, but not exclusively.....if they live there and they object, well, then hear their complaint and take down those statues of Confederate generals, put 'em in a museum.. Those soldiers were wrongheaded. And they lost.

    But more important today than Yankee triumphalism over the Glorious Cause, is that ' Southern heritage' has been hijacked. By neo-Nazis, by the KKK, by white supremacists. THAT, today, has more traction than the fact those Confederate generals were fighting for slavery 150+ years ago.

    ...................................................................
    Now there is a jackassery perspective that this flowering of American Naziism is a good thing, and will be for the next 7-1/2 years. Not only is it jackassery, it is nutjobbery. We are Americans. Not Nazis. Donald Trump is our President, he is not Hitler, despite how much some of his fanboys want to give him that level of control.

    I remain convinced that Charlottesville will not be a good thing for the white-nationalists. And yes, I quite agree with a poster above who states that those folks don't give a tinker's damn over public relations. But.......but as the dial on intolerance of that kind of jackassery gets turned up those white-Nazis will be diminished.

    As said before, if you marched for 'Blood & Soil' in the Charlottesville....... how will that play at your job on Monday?
     
  12. Ranger Ray

    Ranger Ray Smells like, Victory! Premium Member

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    The same as those displaying black power fists, looting stores, and turning over cars. Silly humans. It all should be called out. However, in America politics get involved and we turn it into a contest of ideology.

    I see anti Christian sentiment posted by a few on MS. Injected often out of nowhere. Do they suffer the same hate the white supremacist does? Maybe the lady doth protest too much. You little haters you. In my best Tattoo voice, "da mirror, da mirror boss.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  13. jps

    jps

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    The real haters are the nazis, the white supremacists... and their sup porters and sympathizers.
     
  14. feedinggrounds

    feedinggrounds

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    Putting these statues and monuments in a museum will create a shrine, may not be so good. The protesters want attention, the public square gives that, a museum may or may not. When we get to equal ground, no special treatment for groups, because long dead ancestors suffered. That will be a wedge. As long as one race can form race exclusive groups and clubs in modern times while another is forbidden to because of what happened 150 years ago. Getting special treatment and advantages simply because of skin color in todays world will insure these events will still occur, unfortunately.
     
  15. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Should we change the name of all the US military bases named after confederate military figures?