Ground Zero-CWD Zombie Apocalypse

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Disease' started by syonker, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Michigan needs to worry about the loss of hunters going out of state! It gets old joe watching 4pt after 4pt walk by with no shooters around! I know these are shooters to you but let’s not use cwd as a tool to secure the Michigan hunting mentality that is slowing dying out.

    Once more research has been done I’ll agree on something but right now there just throwing lobbs in the wind.
     
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  2. Joe Archer

    Joe Archer Staff Member Mods

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    Actually, they are not shooters to me. I have been practicing voluntary APR's for a very long time in the NeLP. Can't even tell you the last time I took a deer up there that didn't have at least 3 on a side.
    However, even though I practice APR's I do see the potential negative impact of yearling buck dispersal to limit containment of CWD.
    Your argument of me using cwd against APR's runs into a pretty solid brick wall with me since I practice voluntary APR's.
    <----<<<
     
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  3. Waif

    Waif

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    We have a four on a side A.P.R. in the core zone.
    Let's you not use C.W.D. as an excuse for an A.P.R.. Fair enough?

    I've not heard of any rush to acquire land here by those seeking a higher A.P.R. , have you? And why might that be?

    As to mentality dying out , I'd need to see check station and survey data including buck poles as to age of hunter vs age of kill.
    My suspicion is that not all young buck kills are the result of senior citizens.

    I will agree there are two year olds being killed by plenty of "young" hunters among those killing them. And are two year olds your personal goal? Now what mentality are you fighting?
    It's a mentality created by protesting the killing of yearlings making anything older acceptable as a substitute. Albeit temporarily.

    Watch the faces of those "general" hunters no longer killing yearlings when you tell them a two year old is not quite an older buck goal per your standards...
    Sure those that already target older bucks will get it.
    But those that don't won't be cheerfully convinced they need to go bigger yet again.

    Any eight point/four on a side is legal here. How many wall hangers can I reasonably expect to kill next season? And if I don't make a kill?
     
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  4. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Land is going for high dollars. We both know that. I’m a land owner of two parcels.
    My expectations are not of 2 year old bucks. I like to shoot bigger and do.

    Young hunters out of state have no issue passing small bucks! We both know that. I hunt out of state also so I see this!

    You don’t have to shoot a buck every year just to shoot a deer! Go shoot some doe if you can’t get on a good buck.

    How’s that box of dusty rag horns looking?

    And only one of my friends got a deer tested this past year out of all my hunting friends. That means something.
     
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  5. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Your using APRs as excuses!!!! What kind of bucks did you harvest the past 5 years let’s say? How many 4-6pt 1.5s were there?
    Also dispersal rates in 1.5 is nothing but an excuse to shoot young bucks.
     
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  6. Hillsdales Most Wanted

    Hillsdales Most Wanted

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    I believe only a few of us MI parents hold our kids to a 2.5 or older buck.
     
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  7. Joe Archer

    Joe Archer Staff Member Mods

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    Out of the 4 bucks I've taken in the last 5 years, only one was a 1.5 year old 6 point. I took that deer on my last hunting day of 2018. At the time I pulled the trigger thought it was 2.5. Didn't matter anyway. He was my only contribution to the freezer in 2018, and I was very happy with the deer!
    2015 - 2.5 - 3.5 year old 8 point.
    2016 - 3.5 year old 10 point (SLP)
    2017 - doe only (no bucks)
    2018 - 1.5 year old 6 point
    2019 - 2.5 year old 6 point.
    Seriously, I thought it was wrong to put (Hunter's Choice) APR's in place in the TB zone, just as I believe that it is wrong to put mandatory APR's in place in the CWD zones.
    I believe that if you don't protect yearling bucks, enough of us will pass on younger bucks to still have some older bucks to target, but others will still take a significant number of 1.5 year olds to help with containment.
    <----<<<
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  8. Waif

    Waif

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    Kinda lame response.
    You're complaining to Joe about hunters hunting out of state and you only seeing four points... Then suggest to me doe be killed instead. So, go ahead! I've killed enough.

    My dusty rag horn box looks great, thanks. Needs more plaques is all.
    Not a single royal elk ,so you got the raghorn part right. Six by six is on the bucket list though.
     
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  9. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Who said anything about 4pts in my response?
    And yes Michigan lost a lot of hunters to out of state! How do I know? Everyone sees the Facebook pages and all my friends hunt out of state besides a couple.
     
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  10. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    The flip flop in the rules for the containment zone shows the dnr is lost with no science to educate them.
    That’s my thought. Science is not good enough with cwd to make these huge decisions yet!
    But I’m a supporter of ARPs in a state like Michigan that’s for sure.
     
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  11. Waif

    Waif

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    This wasn't you?
    [ It gets old joe watching 4pt after 4pt walk by with no shooters around! ]

    Anyone enjoys hunting out of state , that's great. Better than not enjoying it.
    Still enough hunters around me. No worry about not enough kills.
    Some hunt elsewhere. Some drift back and forth. Some have not been seen awhile.
    Anyone wants to quit ,it leaves more for those that remain and continue to participate.
    Quitting certainly does not remove more deer.
     
  12. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Its a statement. We all know Michigan's rank for quality buck hunting and how the excuse of Michigan's hunting heritage used on the regular.

    But if you hunt out of state on know like I do that you see a lot more big bucks then here at home.

    Heck we all see more 1.5s here there other state. Slowly were working in the right direction to increase age structure.
     
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  13. Waif

    Waif

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    Our hunting heritage got us this far.

    I understand wanting better age structure/older bucks.

    I get to study the experiment for results.
    The argument of an A.P.R. being something easier(?) than a limited tag (spread for example) or a draw for tags but instead keeping licences sales up is also how we got to where we are now.

    I expect competition for 2-2.5 year olds next season.
    How many fall or survive is a wait and see.
    But the competition transferred from yearlings to older (2 year olds) bucks is expected.

    It's situational , but I didn't see a lot of yearlings. Enough to expect a two year old though.
    But if many hunters take that route...I won't be braggin of quality too much.
     
  14. Groundsize

    Groundsize

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    Waif,
    Good to hear your attempts for next year. IF we kill the small buck now he will never have a chance to get older.
    I would also like to see the tags change for something different also. Im on board with the one buck tag if they go that route. My only issue is why one tag? Illinois doesn't need one buck tag. Issue is with hunter restraint to pass up small bucks.
     
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  15. Waif

    Waif

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    2013 Q.D.M.A. data had Michigan yearling kills 8% higher than Illinois. (47% VS. 39%.)
    Not sure how many Mi. hunters filled a second buck tag but a wild guess is 5-7%.
    Wisconsin was 61% of yearlings.

    Bias of Durkin/Q.D.M.A. must be considered...But in the interest of varied regulations.... Wisconsin's previous earn a buck gets noted at the beginning of the article.. Note the 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 year old buck percentages due to....

    https://www.greenbaypressgazette.co...g-buck-kills-alter-states-deer-herd/25096673/