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Grayling plan released

Discussion in 'FlyTyingForums.com, Fly Tying, Trout Fishing' started by kzoofisher, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Why is it that when we want to repair a horrible mistake, like driving a species out of the state, it always seem to be a "bad idea"? Fixing a mistake is always good. Stock them by the millions. We were able to establish all kinds of invasive species, on purpose. We can restore the grayling. Personally, I would have NO problem getting rid of invasive species to restore the grayling.
     
  2. Rasputin

    Rasputin Premium Member

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    I routinely fish that area. One day, a conversation on the stream with a local revealed that the locals discovered how easy the grayling were to catch and were taking them out by the boat load. That would certainly handicap any reintroduction efforts.
     

  3. RonSwanson

    RonSwanson

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    Reintroductions are tricky and often fail to meet project goals. Seems a lot of this is based on Montana's successful program. It is dangerous to assume there is a recipe for restoration success. Seems very nebulous at the moment but hopefully it works.
     
  4. Brian Berg

    Brian Berg Premium Member

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    There are still a lot of prestine rivers and streams in the UP that they could thrive in.
     
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  5. Gamekeeper

    Gamekeeper

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    Decoy- I just view doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result as insanity.

    Logging and power generation changed our state's rivers. I don't know if there are the resources, or the will, to change very much habitat back.
    After reading about the river clean up down state that reversed a decade of TU efforts in just a few days, I'm not optimistic.
    And if it involved brown trout eradication, I think the cold water fishermen would burn Lansing.
    The Tribe seems to have acquired enough land along the Manistee, that they can use their resources and sovereignty to have all the Grayling they can afford.
     
  6. Boardman Brookies

    Boardman Brookies

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    I have fished just about every single trib of the Manistee from Deward down to Tippy. I've caught browns in everyone I have fished. When the temperature increases in the main stream those hogs enter it. They also spawn in them. I don't see this working.
     
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  7. capper

    capper

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    I'm not sure what all the worry is about. In Alaska - Grayling co-exist and thrive along with both Lake trout and Northern Pike. I have caught them in both streams and lakes that had both species.
    My biggest concern would be the fact that they are truly easy to catch. You can catch just as many on a silver #2 Mepps spinner as you can on a #12 black Gnat dry fly. They are very susceptible to over fishing. I personally have witnessed the population in a wonderful stream along the Alaska pipeline, being nearly wiped out in just a few years.
     
  8. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    My guess, and it's only a guess, is that stocking can't provide enough fry to overcome predation. If the DNR had 2000 brood stock fish maybe they could hatch enough eggs in stream to make it work with large brown trout populations.

    Boardman mentioned some big browns coming into tribs when the water heats up. Those fish might disappear pretty quickly if they were no longer stocked in the mainstream. The popularity of that tactic isn't going to be very high, might not be on the table at all.

    Grayling are easy to catch. If folks fishing the streams can't control themselves, and I have no reason to believe they can't, the streams should be closed to all fishing. Penalties for violation should be very, very high: fines of $500 per fish, minimum jail sentences of 3 months and loss of fishing/hunting privileges for 10 years. Sounds steep I know but private entities creating a public resource is a rare treasure and should be protected. I feel the same about the Saginaw Bay fishery and the DNR footed most of the bill for that but private groups helped a lot.
     
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  9. -Axiom-

    -Axiom-

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    I am all for private groups doing whatever to improve quality & habitat but that in no way grants them or the affected water some kind of special privilege nor warrants special or additional regulations.

    If this is going to result in additional regulations I would/will be entirely against it.
     
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  10. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    It may not work, but if we can get them reintroduced it would be a good thing. Grayling were native to Michigan, it was as bad to drive them out as many other things we do. Like damming rivers, draining marshes, pollution and introduction of invasive species. Any time we can right an environmental wrong, we win.
     
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  11. -Axiom-

    -Axiom-

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    The habitat is entirely different now than it was 100+ yrs ago, this isn't going to change.
     
  12. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Of course it is going to change. Change is never ending. We can restore the grayling if we choose to, or not. We can repair a lot of the damage, like returning dammed rivers to their free flowing state, or not. We can restore the swamps, bogs and marshes, or not.

    The greatest problem we face is not the fact that it can't be restored, it's that, in spite of all the "noise" people make about fixing the environment, most don't want to. Most only want to "fix it" at the state it was in when they were 20.

    Nothing I say will change what is going to take place. I would love to see the grayling return, just because the are a really cool fish and they are MUCH better eating than an stinky ole trout, at least in my opinion they are.

    When I had grayling to fish for I would almost always target them before trout.
     
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  13. Steve

    Steve Staff Member Admin

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    Montana also did something different with the rearing pens, actually rearing the stocked fish in the waters where they were to be released I believe. This was another key to their success. I'm all for attempting another re-introduction of a native species and I believe lessons have been learned since the last attempt. Finally, this is being paid with by private funds.
     
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  14. RonSwanson

    RonSwanson

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    Another myth is that science can science it's way out of environmental problems. Sometimes the damage is so great or the system has experience such change that you will never get a stream back to a pre-impairment condition. Are partial measures enough to establish a breeding population? Maybe. Some times the only thing preventing the establishment of a population is a near by source population to dispurse. Pheasants Forever can fall short here (field of dreamscape myth). Sometimes it is not enough to plant some riparian vegetation, pull out a few browns, and stock. Sometimes the problem is more complex than that.
     
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  15. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

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    Of course it may fail. It may not be possible. We should try because it is the right thing to do.