GM Electric Hummer

Discussion in 'Sound Off' started by wpmisport, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. CrawlerHarness

    CrawlerHarness

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    I love the back and forth between pesco and pike in this thread. No name calling, but certainly 2 intelligent guys bantering back with some strong support. Of course I am confused on a lot of it. So I guess the last word wins!
     
  2. piketroller

    piketroller

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    I’d like to think of him as the nightman and I’m the dayman. You have to understand the troll toll to figure that one out.
     
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  3. Sasquatch Lives

    Sasquatch Lives

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    Hell our state govt. can't even fix our roads much less maintain a system like that............
     
  4. DirtySteve

    DirtySteve

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    This isn't true. Our govt has rolled back alot of the fuel economy in the past 4 yrs Gm and ford have doubled down on EV regardless and so has all of europe. Right now GM has more than half their new platforms in development as EV vehicles. This is new in last 24 months. This new hummer is the first model of 3. Much like tesla each version will be more affordable.

    FCA has been desperately trying to join another company in a joint venture. They have asked pretty much everyone. They have a very profotable product line woth jeep and Ram. They are trying to combine with someone else because they jniw theybare being left in the dust in the EV world. They havent invested in it anywhere near the extent that daimler, bmw, honda, toyota, gm and ford have. They see the writing on the wall.
     
  5. Gamekeeper

    Gamekeeper

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    I drove a Honda NSX hybrid with the 300 hp electric front wheel drive boost, and I was impressed.

    The BMW and the Volkswagen electrics were also very nice.

    Part of the sales pitch is helping people to look at what their actual driving really is. Perhaps we don’t need a 4 ton SUV sitting in the driveway for the three timesA year we launch our boat?

    It’s a freedom, and personal choice, matter.
     
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  6. tincanary

    tincanary

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    I think it's even more than half. For a little background, I know quite a few employees at the Tech Center due to my career. Many of these men and women work in the design center on products some years out from the pre-production stage. I like to ask a lot of questions to these guys since I'm a car nerd among other things. I was told that the only purely gasoline powered vehicle they are actively developing right now is the Corvette. Even the bigger trucks are slated to go EV in due time.
     
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  7. DirtySteve

    DirtySteve

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    It is more than half. That is why I said more than half lol...
     
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  8. piketroller

    piketroller

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    There has not been a “rollback” which implies regression. The Obama administration’s NHTSA and EPA required fuel economy improvements of 4-5% annually through 2025. The Trump administration’s NHTSA and EPA issued a new rule that requires annual improvements from 2021 through 2026 of 1.5% per year, so still increasing targets. This is closer to inline with historical industry performance of about 1% improvement per year. The problem is all the low hanging fruit to improve conventional technology has been picked. By 2025, under either the Trump or Obama rules, all manufacturers will need a double digit percentage of their total fleets to be high voltage electrified products. The difference is with the Trump rules that might just be 10-20% while with the Obama rules it would be closer to 50%.

    And the Trump rule is being challenged in court, and until it gets decided, car companies have to plan for either outcome and won’t change course until it’s finished.

    One of the major flaws in the rule done by the Obama EPA was that they projected the shift to smaller cars that we saw during the financial crisis would be permanent and continue to gain steam. The exact opposite has happened with passenger cars volume shifting to crossovers and SUVs. Car companies can’t meet their targets if consumer demand doesn’t align with what the regulations require. This is the huge uncertainty with bringing lots of EVs to the market in the next half decade. Outside of countries that highly subsidize EVs, Tesla has been the only one successful in selling them at volume, and that is more of a success in branding than technical achievement.
     
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  9. Far Beyond Driven

    Far Beyond Driven

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    For those of us that really drive, grab a manual while you still can. Even the Accord phased out row your own this year.
     
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  10. DirtySteve

    DirtySteve

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    When walmart puts their rollback pricing on display they go back to a previous price point from a previous date.

    Trump rolled the standard back to a progression that was previously in place and very attainable without going overboard on EV's.

    We no longer have an average of the vehicle fleet like we once did. The standards apply to each vehicle line individually so percentage of EV's really dont matter anymore to OEM's. This is why you have seen OEMs drop small cars and increase SUV'S. Yet GM is still going all out on EV platforms at the moment.

    EVs are becoming an affordable and viable thing. They have less maintenance and last longer. I still think hydrogen could be a player some day though too.

    You will eventually see a shift in how vehicles will be purchased as well. In 10 yrs I could see vehicle subscriptions having a big draw over buying or leasing.
     
  11. piketroller

    piketroller

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    I believe you think you have a good handle one what's actually required by the regulations, but your sources aren't the best.

    The way the standards are structured, there are three different fleets of vehicles with separate targets for automakers - a domestic passenger car fleet, an import passenger car fleet, and a light truck fleet. Most crossovers and SUVs with 4 wheel drive are in the light truck fleet, along with 2 wheel drive SUVs with GVWR above 6,000 pounds or vehicles with significant flat cargo space like a minivan when the seats are folded down. Credits earned for one of these fleets over-complying can be transferred to either the import passenger car or light truck fleet to make up a credit deficit. However, credits earned in the import passenger or light truck fleets cannot be transferred to make up the full deficit in the domestic passenger car fleet because of this little thing called the domestic minimum standard. This domestic minimum standard was something the UAW lobbied hard for because they like any liberal cause and they also like pissing of the automakers. The end result of this requirement was the big 3 deciding to kill off all their small cars and close the U.S. plants that built them.

    With this system, no individual vehicle line has a regulatory requirement. Automakers like to give each vehicle line an internal target so they aren't playing winners and losers too badly within the different vehicle lines internally, but these aren't regulatory requirements. China has some maximum thresholds for individual vehicles, but the U.S. does not for light duty vehicles. There are caps on heavy duty engine GHG emissions from engine dyno certified applications, but those aren't part of the light duty vehicle regulations.

    Gm is going all out on EVs at the moment because they are throwing everything at the wall in hopes of a couple sticking. They are full in on BEVs. Ford seems to be tilting that way too, but also have some PHEVs. FCA has a lot of mild hybrids now with the Ram pickups, just launched the Wrangler PHEV, and has the Fiat BEV. GM is fully committed to only BEVs and is doing everything it can to help that be the winning technology in the short term, while other companies are taking a more varied approach with a variety of technologies because nobody really knows what the U.S. market will accept in mass over the next few years.

    The other big thing with the credits that companies shuffle around between regulated fleets or even buy and sell between OEMs is that the bulk of them were earned in the early years of our current fuel economy program. For the last couple years, industry as a whole (including Toyota, VW, and even Tesla) has been in credit burning mode. It looks like around model year 2021 the game of musical chairs stops when all the existing credits have been used up. Everyone is going to need a source of credits and it isn't going to come from selling more F150's of Suburbans. FCA has been buying credits from Tesla and others as the short term strategy. GM's strategy is to sell move of its own EVs. Between Tesla and GM, I know which one is selling more EVs in the U.S. this year and which one will still be selling more EVs next year.

    And back to your funny rollback analogy. When Walmart rolls back a price, the price today is lower than the price yesterday. In the regulatory scheme put forward for light vehicles, the targets for 2021 will be harder than they were for 2020. The 2022 targets will be harder than they will be for 2021, and so on. You can spin things if you want, but when you spin too much you change the meaning.
     
  12. bowhunter426

    bowhunter426

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