close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

CWD Deer Management

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Management' started by Joe Archer, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. lemmontracie

    lemmontracie

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Honestly to stop the spread of CWD we must shoot a lot of bucks, and all bucks! They are the travelers. They are he ones that move miles for breeding. Does usually stay in small areas as family units. There should be NO buck age structure. If it has antlers it should go. Need to kill does too because they reproduce, but if we want to slow spread from county to county it seems more realistic to take the buck population down. Stinks but CWD is no joke. Just wait until scientists can prove it's transmissibility to humans like BSE. You can't kill it! And if proven to be a causing factor in sporadic Human CJD look out. This is scary stuff. In my minds what then would be the point of hunting. Can't handle the meat...can't eat the meat...CWD prions have been found in antlers so I wouldn't want to be handling that either. Prions are excreted in feces and urine...crap what if hunters are spreading it with bottled deer urine too. Crazy. Scary scary scary! This saddens me...our entire fall into winter revolves around hunting!
     
  2. Thirty pointer

    Thirty pointer

    Messages:
    3,486
    Likes Received:
    3,314
    Location:
    kent county mi.
    Seriously when we get to this point most deer hunters will have quit already .
     

  3. Stand By

    Stand By

    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Gaylord
    Just remember, when they won't die and don't stop coming at you, you have to shoot them in the head...
     
  4. rork

    rork

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    83
    I've felt I should summarize the science of whether humans can get "converted" by CWD, but it'd get long pointing to every paper. A good, and I think fairly readable summary, though somewhat dated, is http://www.virology.ws/2015/03/11/is-chronic-wasting-disease-a-threat-to-humans/. The money line might be:
    "Four different research groups have found that mice transgenic for the human prnp gene are not infected by CWD prions." These experiments go: give mice human PRNP, and see if you can convert them with deer CWD. It's thought more ethical than trying on humans directly.
    However, don't party yet.
    1) Not every variant of the cervid PRNP gene has been tried against every variant of the human PRNP genes. There could be a magic combination that works. Note there are deer variants that are more resistant (and some really good ones in elk), and they would naturally increase in places with high CWD rates. There are human variants that are very resistant to vCJD (mad cow) and kuru (the human to human version). Cannibalism selects for them.
    2) Deer CWD can convert cows, but so far only by direct injection to brain I think. Cows with the disease might be a risk to human. It might not be easy to convert cows in the wild though.
    3) The cow vs deer experiments show that the transgenic mice experiments might not be perfect. That's a bit tricky. The article reviews that.
    PS: there has been some recent news about vaccines. That is a damned tricky subject. My first thought was "that cannot possibly work" but I've been wrong allot, and it just might I now think.
    Also, I'm almost ready to recommend we engineer deer with PRNP alleles that are essentially immune. We have that technology (CRISPR-cas9 tricks). We'd backcross those engineered deer to local ones to get "local deer" with fairly good genetic diversity except they'd all have the immune version. We'd have to study them for a decade or more to see if the new version brought on health issues of other kinds, or some other danger (like a brand new miss-folded version of PRNP). Then we release into the wild to survive, and pass their genes around. This will take a long time, and yes, it is playing with fire.
    Domestic sheep have been extensively selected to have resistant alleles first found in the wild. We could try that too - launch a wide search for rare deer variants of the gene that are slightly better than the "just fairly good" ones we know of. Expand them on farms and release. The good elk variant that is known might work for elk. Natural selection may work too but might take a century.
     
  5. ridgewalker

    ridgewalker

    Messages:
    4,921
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Location:
    NMI Woods
    I can say with certainty that I am not a sheep, mouse, monkey, cow, or cannibal so those "tests" don't overly alarm me. Perhaps I am or will be the exception to the present statement but until it is proven that a person has contracted CWD from eating venison, I will not worry about it. That is not to say that I would eat a deer that is obviously sick. Yes, I know that they do not show signs until well along with the disease.

    On another note, I will assume that most of the posts above are true. If that is the case, then when we field dress a deer, we are leaving prions behind when we leave if the deer has CWD. There is blood and urine from the tract in the entrails that we leave as well as the kidneys and bladder. IMO, as unimportant as that may be, once CWD is in the environment, it is there for good. If anyone knows how to stop it once it is out there, please post and let us all know how to do it.
     
    Thirty pointer likes this.
  6. swampbuck

    swampbuck

    Messages:
    16,670
    Likes Received:
    4,448
    Location:
    Majinabeesh
    There is no way to stop it once it's there.
     
  7. Stand By

    Stand By

    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Gaylord
    Probably just have to research the vaccination, whether deer or human. Maybe something like a malaria or rat fever pill. Don't need it unless you plan to visit a hot zone.
     
  8. swampbuck

    swampbuck

    Messages:
    16,670
    Likes Received:
    4,448
    Location:
    Majinabeesh
    There is no vaccination or cure...its questionable if even an incinerator can destroy it.

    You can't kill it, because it's not a virus or bacteria, it's not even a living thing. Pretty fascinating object really.

    A infected deer could pee on the ground, the prions could self replicate and be taken up by the roots of plants, and transmitted through the leaves to another deer that eats the plant.

    Contaminated pasture have been implicated....but not food plots, because they are... ummmm, different somehow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  9. LG1

    LG1

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    30
    Location:
    mid-michigan
    Genetically modified deer? Elk? And whatever else we can try to fix in a lab?Mother Nature must be about ready to throw up her hands and give up her way.
     
  10. rork

    rork

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    83
    The prion in the wild is not quite there "for good" I think. (Forever is a long time, especially the part near the end.) It is just very resistant to degradation. And recall it is the dose that makes the poison. CWD outbreak in New York in 2005 was mopped up successfully it appears (2 breeding facilities and 2 deer in the wild tested positive). It is not impossible to contain, just hard. We have more to learn about "where it goes" in the wild.

    The prions do not self-replicate without a host. If there is a certain amount of miss-folded PRP protein sitting there in the ground, it does not increase. It can only convert other PRP proteins, and will need to get into an animal, and manage to find and convert normal PRP proteins in that animal. The fate of many proteins ingested may often be just being in the deer pellets the next day. Maybe they will get into an oak tree and see if they can stay intact there for a century.
     
    mbrewer likes this.
  11. motdean

    motdean

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Were you, by chance, at the CWD Symposium in Lansing?
     
  12. rork

    rork

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    83
    No. I saw they were going to make video available in the future, so people could watch it.
    Please spill your guts if you were there, and contradict bad speculations I may have said. It's hard for me to keep fully up to date on CWD research - it moves fast.
     
  13. motdean

    motdean

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    No, no, no....I wasn't taking a shot at you and your comments at all. Sorry if that was what you read into my question.

    It was simply a curiosity on my side. You seem informed, and I was simply wondering if you made it.
     
  14. rork

    rork

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    83
    No need for apologies. I live in a culture that welcomes debate, challenge, and criticism, if honestly done. It's just that I do cancer research, and am interested in deer, so I can read a paper here and there without it taking all day (and I have access to the papers cause of my job, which sadly is a problem for others at times). I'm just a student on this one, and may have made overstatements.
     
    mbrewer and motdean like this.
  15. QDMAMAN

    QDMAMAN Premium Member

    Messages:
    26,470
    Likes Received:
    4,922
    Location:
    Vermontville Michigan
    Because they know better.
    Wisdom of the ages!