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Artificial Flies Only

Discussion in 'Gear Restrictions and Trout Fishing Regs' started by BDuff1234, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. BDuff1234

    BDuff1234

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    So I have a question that I can't seem to find an answer for on the Michigan DNR site. I am trying to find a definition that the Michigan DNR gives for what an artificial fly is, as it pertains to the artificial flies only sections of rivers. I just want something I can read "straight from the horses mouth" as you might say.
    People might debate on here what may or may not be classified as a fly, and I'm open to hearing about that as well if people feel so inclined. But I mainly just want something to reference from the DNR for a solid definition for an artificial fly. Depending on what's out that and what it might say, further discussion about particular items being classified as a fly might also be pursued. So if anyone can provide any direction as to where one might find that information, I would be very grateful!

    Thank you in advance for any help you all provide!
     
  2. jatc

    jatc

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  3. the rapids

    the rapids

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    the single hook only requirement has to be one of the most often violated rules in artifical flies only stretches of streams. if you add up the number of folks that you see streamer fishing in those sections (particularly pm flies only) with tandem hook streamers, it could be quite the money maker (and would probably correct arrogance of the hero guides that push them) but it seems like that is not enforced. with some of the streamers that pass for 'flies' these days (including wedge shaped 'diving lip' heads made out of deer hair) we should really just adjust to allow for artificials only on those stretches...
     
  4. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    Been a long time since I was there, are they fishing tandem hooks (two points on the hook) or two single pointed hooks? The difference between a single pointed hook, a multi-pointed, a set of hooks on a bait and how they all equal one hook is confusing. Really important for whippers, though. Fisheries could change the definition to "single pointed hook" to clear things up. Maybe they think that is just one more level of complication and unnecessary considering the number of actual violations as compared the the complaints of a few who don't understand the rules.
     
  5. the rapids

    the rapids

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    two single pointed hooks on an articulated fly. no confusion by the 'common terms' rulebook section an artifical fly is only a single hook fly. by that definition, articulated flies (circus peanut, drunk and disorderly, double deciever, etc) are not artificial flies unless one point is clipped. no points are clipped from what ive seen, and that is by design. You can check this out on other rivers with artifical flies reaches like the upper manistee too. Also, many of these flies have seasonally inappropriate hook gaps over 1/2". just saying this is the kind of thing that at minimum needs education and at maximum needs enforcement, i dont think these folks are that ignorant to not know what they are doing. hopefully saves the OP some headaches.

    from common terms, link provided above
    Common Terms
    Artificial Flies: Any commonly accepted single hook wet and dry flies, streamers and nymphs without spinner, spoon, scoop, lip or any other fishing lure or bait attached. The fly or leader may be weighted, but no weight shall be attached to the fly or to the terminal tackle in a manner that allows the weight to be suspended from or below the hook.

    from the rulebook http://www.eregulations.com/michigan/fishing/it-is-unlawful-to/
    "it is unlawful to"... Use multi-pointed hooks exceeding 3⁄8″ between point and shank and/or single-pointed hooks exceeding ½” between point and shank on all streams (including tributaries to the Great Lakes) from Aug. 1 to May 31.
     
  6. kzoofisher

    kzoofisher

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    Two single pointed hooks on a fly=one hook All hooks attached to an artificial bait or “night crawler harness” are counted as 1 hook (note: for crappie/perch rigs and umbrella rigs each hook is counted as part of total allowed). Flies are flies but they are also artificial baits, the only exception for counting hooks individually are crappie/perch rigs and umbrella rigs (sabiki's are umbrellas). This is how a guy whipping on the St Clair can run six body baits with three trebles each for a total of eighteen hooks and fifty-four points that count as six hooks total. And a guy casting an articulated streamer with two hooks is legally casting only one. If he wanted to articulate the streamer a bunch of times he could tie it with six hooks and still be legal.

    As to the 1/2" between point and shank rule, that may get violated but very seldom with intent. I checked my biggest streamers, the 5"-7", and none of them have hooks that big. Maybe some people's do and they don't know it. Of course, the beauty of carrying a fly rod and wearing all those fancy clothes is that the cops leave you alone. Sometimes it's great to be privileged. ;) I know a lot of my jigs have hooks bigger than that, basically everything 2/0 and up. If the Detroit counts as a stream as well as a Great Lakes connecting water the thousands of violations there over the next few weeks will be a gold mine for somebody.
     
  7. Chasingchrome

    Chasingchrome

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    Other threads it has come up. Plastic Egg Beads. If they are tied into a single hook fly pattern it is legal. Meaning they are a fly body.
     
  8. jkloess

    jkloess

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    Sorry for the blast-from-past reply, but I wanted to check if anyone has received further clarification on this topic. Original question is for "artificial flies" restricted sections of rivers, are multiple hooks tied to a single fly acceptable, e.g. articulated double hook streamers NOT two separate streamers tied in tandem?

    Per the 2016/2017 Michigan Fishing Guide:

    -Artificial flies are defined as "Any commonly accepted single hook wet and dry flies, streamers and nymphs..."
    -Artificial lure is defined as "..Artificial lures include spoons, spinners, flies and plugs..."
    -Hook is defined as "A single, double or treble pointed hook. All hooks, single, double or treble pointed and attached to a manufactured artificial lure shall be counted as 1 hook."

    From various previous posts I've seen basically two interpretations:
    1) The "single hook" part of the artificial flies definition is intended to be one hook quantity and one hook point, e.g. multiple hook articulated flies and multiple point hooks are illegal for use in artificial flies only sections.
    OR
    2) The "single hook" part of the artificial flies definition is intended to be one hook point only, i.e. a treble hook could not be used on a fly. However since both hooks are part of a single fly (which is also considered a type of lure) they are counted as a single hook, and thus multiple hook articulated flies are legal for use in artificial lies only sections.

    To be honest, I don't mind using shanks or clipped hooks if that is the restriction but before I clip my whole box of streamers or tie a whole batch with shanks instead, I thought it was worth an second opinion.

    Thanks!
     
  9. Rasputin

    Rasputin Premium Member

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    Does this mean no 2-fly rigs, like a hopper/dropper, or 2 nymphs on one leader?
     
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  10. OldBuck

    OldBuck

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    I Emailed the DNR about this several years ago. I don't have their response any longer but essentially a tandem-hook (two single-pointed hooks) fly is NOT legal to use on "flies only" water, but a double-pointed or treble-pointed hook IS legal as long as it meets the rest of the definition of an artificial fly, particularly the "commonly accepted" part. Many classic salmon fly and streamer patterns are tied on such hooks. Those, by definition, would be legal to use in "flies only" water as they use one hook. The number of points on the hook does not matter.
     
  11. jkloess

    jkloess

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    Interesting, thanks for the info!

    Just to clarify, by "tandem-hook" do you mean 2 or more single hook flies creating a "single fly" such as:
    https://www.slideinn.com/product/galloups-sex-dungeon/

    Or is it tandem rigs with two separate flies tied together, such as hopper dropper rigs or tandem nymphs?

    From the sounds of it, BOTH are technically illegal and essentially you get one and only one hook in "artificial flies" only sections, but multi-point hooks may be acceptable depending on the pattern.
     
  12. OldBuck

    OldBuck

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    Two or more hooks joined to create a single fly would be illegal. I did not ask about dropper flies specifically, but I would assume it would be OK providing there is a reasonable tippet length between them. Like a lot of rules, there are gray areas subject to interpretation and intent.

    And just for the record, I'm an avid year-round fly-fisherman and enjoy fishing a lot of flies-only water throughout the state. However, I do not agree with restricting tackle based on the current "social" criteria.
     
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  13. Boardman Brookies

    Boardman Brookies

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    Or all the restricted waters could just be artificial lures/flies only, problem solved.
     
  14. lodge lounger

    lodge lounger

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    Being a fly fisherman, I have to admit I appreciate the flies-only water. All the fly guys flock to the designated streams, leaving the rest of the trout water (where I typically do a lot better) way less crowded.
     
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  15. Fishman95

    Fishman95

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    I've done equally as well on the pere marquette in the C&R flies only and in the other stretches.
    I do equally well on the paint creek artificial lures section and the rest of it.