another perspective on cwd

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Disease' started by dogwhistle, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. Thor_77

    Thor_77 Guest

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  2. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    You never answered my question. Are you a deer farmer?

    "You know when I think about this VHS disease you probably have a pretty good chance of passing on that disease into the inland waterways from bait shops. Perhaps we should shut down all the bait shops just to be on the safe side. Say you wouldn't be involved in the bait shop now would you."

    You obviously haven't bought fishing bait in a bait shop lately.

    Here is the rules put in place...



    ATTENTION ANGLERS
    The following changes to 2007 fishing regulations are in effect beginning June 28, 2007
    ______________________________________________________________________________
    Due to the recent confirmation of a fish virus known as viral hemorrhagic septicemia virus (VHSv) in Michigan waters,
    regulations have been put in place to slow the spread of the disease. Under the authority of sections 41101 through 41105 of
    1994 PA 451, being sections 324.41101 through 324.41105 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, the Director of the Department of
    Natural Resources (Department) on June 7, 2007 ordered that the following regulations apply to the waters of the State.
    DEFINITIONS
    As used in these regulations, specific terms are defined as follows:
    Baitfish –live or dead species of fish, or parts of fish excluding Roe, that are used by anglers to catch fish.
    Certification Process – a process used by the Department to grant or deny applications from individuals who want to conduct
    certain activities that are regulated by the Department.
    Inland Waters – all public waters of the State except for the Great Lakes and their connecting waters.
    Pathogen – viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites that cause disease in living organisms.
    Prohibited Fish Species – Baitfish and other species of fish identified by the Department as infected with VHSv.
    Roe – eggs of fish.
    VHSv Free Management Area-Lake Superior and all Inland Waters in the watersheds of Lake Superior are classified as a
    VHSv Free Management Area (VHSv has not been found in these waters). All Inland Waters in the watersheds of Lake
    Michigan including Grand Traverse bays and bays de Noc, and of the St. Mary’s River are classified as a VHSv Free
    Management Area, except for those tributaries to Lake Michigan including Grand Traverse bays and bays de Noc, and to the St.
    Marys River that are classified as a VHSv Surveillance Area. Check online (http://www.michigan.gov/dnrfishing) for updates.
    VHSv Positive Management Area-Lake Huron including Saginaw Bay, the St. Clair River, Lake St. Clair, the Detroit River, and
    Lake Erie are classified as a VHSv Positive Management Area (VHSv has been confirmed in these waters). All tributaries to
    Lake Huron including Saginaw Bay, to the St. Clair River, to Lake St. Clair, to the Detroit River, and to Lake Erie are classified
    as a VHSv Positive Management Area in their entirety or from their confluence upstream to the first barrier that prevents the
    upstream passage of fish if such a barrier exists. Check online (http://www.michigan.gov/dnrfishing) for updates.
    VHSv Surveillance Management Area- Lake Michigan including Grand Traverse bays and bays de Noc, and the St. Marys
    River are classified as a VHSv Surveillance Management Area. All tributaries to Lake Michigan including Grand Traverse bays
    and bays de Noc, and to the St. Marys River are classified as a VHSv Surveillance Management Area in their entirety or from
    their confluence upstream to the first barrier that prevents the upstream passage of fish if such a barrier exists. All Inland
    Waters in the watersheds of Lake Huron including Saginaw Bay, of the St. Clair River, of Lake St. Clair, of the Detroit River, and
    of Lake Erie are classified as a VHSv Surveillance Management Area, except for those tributaries to Lake Huron including
    Saginaw Bay, to the St. Clair River, to Lake St. Clair, to the Detroit River, and to Lake Erie that are classified as a VHSv Positive
    Management Area. Check online (http://www.michigan.gov/dnrfishing) for updates.
    GENERAL STATEWIDE PROVISIONS
    1. The official list of Prohibited Fish Species for VHSv is shown at the bottom of page 2. Updates to the list of Prohibited Fish
    Species will be posted on Fisheries Division’s web site (http://www.michigan.gov/dnrfishing).
    2. A person shall not stock Baitfish or live fish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or Roe taken from fish that are listed
    as Prohibited Fish Species, in public waters of the State prior to receiving a Fish Stocking Permit from the Department
    permitting such activity.
    3. If an approved Fish Stocking Permit is issued by the Department, the permittee shall carry that Fish Stocking Permit with
    them when transporting and stocking Baitfish or live fish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or Roe taken from fish
    that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, in public waters of the State. That Fish Stocking Permit shall be shown upon
    request by a law enforcement officer.
    4. A retail customer shall retain and show upon request the receipt for purchases of Baitfish or Roe from a State-licensed
    Baitfish retail operation. A receipt shall be valid for seven days from the date of sale.
    5. A person who catches fish in a lake or a Great Lake shall not release those fish alive in any public waters of the State if
    those fish are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, except that those fish may be released alive in that lake, or that Great Lake,
    or in a connecting body of water to that lake, or that Great Lake, so long as those fish can freely move between the original
    location of capture and the location of release. This Provision 5 does not apply to Baitfish.
    6. A person who catches fish in a stream shall not release those fish alive in any public waters of the State if those fish are
    listed as Prohibited Fish Species, except that those fish may be released alive in any part of that stream, or in a connecting
    body of water to that stream, so long as those fish can freely move between the original location of capture and the location
    of release. This Provision 6 does not apply to Baitfish.
    2
    7. A person shall not use or otherwise release Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or Roe harvested from fish
    that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, in any public waters of the State, unless that person is fishing and those Baitfish
    or that Roe are attached to a hook.
    8. A person who moves a boat over land between bodies of water shall drain all water from the live well(s) and the bilge of
    their boat upon leaving any body of water.
    MANAGEMENT AREA REGULATIONS FOR VIRAL HEMORRHAGIC SEPTICEMIA VIRUS (VHSV)
    VHSv Positive Management Area
    On all waters designated within the VHSv Positive Management Area, the following regulations further restrict the transportation,
    sale, use, and release of Baitfish and fish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, and Roe taken from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species, that have not been approved as required under the Department’s Certification Process.
    • A person who catches Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or harvests Roe from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species, in a body of water that is included in the VHSv Positive Management Area shall not use or
    otherwise release those Baitfish or that Roe in any public waters of the State, except that those Baitfish or that Roe may
    be used in any waters included in the VHSv Positive Management Area subject to Provision 7 above.
    • A person who purchases Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or purchases Roe from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species, shall not use or otherwise release those Baitfish or that Roe in any public waters of the State,
    except that those Baitfish or that Roe may be used in any waters included in the VHSv Positive Management Area
    subject to Provision 7 above.
    VHSv Surveillance Management Area
    On all waters designated within the VHSv Surveillance Management Area, the following regulations further restrict the
    transportation, sale, use, and release of Baitfish and fish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, and Roe taken from fish that
    are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, that have not been approved as required under the Department’s Certification Process.
    • A person who catches Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or harvests Roe from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species in a body of water that is included in the VHSv Surveillance Management Area shall not use or
    otherwise release those Baitfish or that Roe in any public waters of the State, except that those Baitfish or that Roe
    may be used in any waters included in either the VHSv Positive Management Area or the VHSv Surveillance
    Management Area subject to Provision 7 above.
    • A person who purchases Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or purchases Roe from fish that are listed
    as Prohibited Fish Species, shall not use or otherwise release those Baitfish or that Roe in any public waters of the
    State, except that those Baitfish or that Roe may be used in any waters included in either the VHSv Positive
    Management Area or the VHSv Surveillance Management Area subject to Provision 7 above.
    VHSv Free Management Area
    On all waters designated within the VHSv Free Management Area, the following regulations apply to the transportation, sale,
    use, and release of Baitfish and fish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, and Roe taken from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species, that have not been approved as required under the Department’s Certification Process.
    • A person who catches Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or harvests Roe from fish that are listed as
    Prohibited Fish Species in a body of water that is included in the VHSv Free Management Area may use those Baitfish
    or that Roe in any public waters of the State, subject to Provision 7 above.
    • A person who purchases Baitfish that are listed as Prohibited Fish Species, or purchases Roe from fish that are listed
    as Prohibited Fish Species, that has been harvested from a body of water included in the VHSv Free Management Area
    may use those Baitfish or that Roe in any public waters of the State, subject to Provision 7 above.
    The following table lists the Prohibited Fish Species for VHSv as identified by the Department as of June 28, 2007. Check
    Fisheries Division’s web site http://www.michigan.gov/dnrfishing for updates.
     

  3. Liver and Onions

    Liver and Onions

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    Okay, I think I see your mistake. You are reading the 79mi2 (raised 2 actually) as 79 miles squared instead of 79 sq. miles. I am pretty sure that the accepted way to write sq. miles in a manual is to do it as was done in the Surviellance and Response Plan. I agree that they could have eliminated that possible error by writing 79 sq. mi., however it was your mistake to read it the wrong way.

    L & O
     
  4. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    As far as zebra mussels and VHS, how did they likely get into the states waters? I believe experts agree that it was likely from lax ballast rules that allowed them in.

    Now international shipping is something I believe most would consider as something vital, in the cost vs risk equation. What is vital about deer farming, except for 600 deer farm owners in a state with 600,000 plus deer hunters who have their interests and 6,000,000 plus state residents?

    How about the Asian Carp? Isn't the bulk of that at the feet of the fish farming industry using them to clean their ponds?
    So now a few southern fish farmers may have the destruction of the Mississippi river, Missouri and Illinois rivers, and the Great Lakes fisheries at their feet?

    Was it worth it? Should be bring in anymore live exotic fish species into the country? Should we domesticate wild animals when those wild animals are already over-populated in much of the nation?

    As far as banning fishing bait? Yeah, sure. There's very little money in live bait. Bait shops make far more money on lures, flies and terminal tackle.
    And, anyone can get worms themselves, for free and naturally, if they take a little time to scout for them. ;)


    What about feral pigs now in Michigan? What was their source again? Were a few pig hunting pens worth the destruction they will likely cause once established in the wild? Now we have Pseudorabies to worry about. And where did that come from again?

    May 6, 2008

    LANSING – The Michigan Department of Agriculture’s (MDA) Geagley Laboratory today confirmed pseudorabies virus (PRV) infection in 19 sport swine on a privately owned cervid facility in Saginaw County. Pseudorabies is a highly contagious viral disease of swine that causes newborn piglets to die. Rarely, the disease can cause sudden death in cats and dogs and can affect cattle, sheep, and deer. The virus does not cause illness in humans and is not related to rabies.

    “We must protect Michigan’s $230 million swine industry,” said Don Koivisto, MDA Director. “Michigan achieved PRV- free status in 2000, and the ability of this disease to be spread by feral hogs to other animals could be a risk to the swine industry.”

    All swine on the Saginaw County cervid facility will be captured and destroyed. Feral swine in the vicinity of the facility are being trapped and euthanized by the United States Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Wildlife Services for disease testing. MDA encourages Michigan residents to shoot feral swine and to have MDA test the carcass for disease.

    “We are contacting other states to notify them of the disease and anticipate some out-of-state markets will impose restrictions on live swine from Michigan until testing proves that this is an isolated case,” said MDA State Veterinarian Steven Halstead. “We need to confirm as quickly as possible that the disease has not spread to other farms.”

    Effective immediately, MDA is banning the importation of swine intended for: breeding on game ranches, for supply to game ranches, or facilities using swine for sport, hunting, or shooting. Any farms that sold to, or received live swine from this facility will be quarantined and tested. Violations of the quarantine and ban are punishable by fines of up to $50,000 and/or up to five years imprisonment. Additionally, all farms and ranches with commercial or sport swine in a five-mile radius around the PRV positive ranch will be quarantined and the swine tested for PRV.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2008
  5. Ninja

    Ninja Guest

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    Ahhh.....I guess I'm archaic.

    The square mile is an imperial and US unit of measure for an area equal to the area of a square of one statute mile. It should not be confused with miles square, which refers to the number of miles on each side squared. For instance, 20 miles square (20×20 miles) is equal to 400 square miles.

    I just figured that 1X79(squared) equals 6,241.
     
  6. dogwhistle

    dogwhistle

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    it doesnt matter all that much. density is density and although a controlled hunt would be safer than licensed hunters, there are still many areas where wholesale shooting and killing of deer is unsafe under any conditions.

    and although it may be a "plan" on paper, the logistics of it make it impossible. as soon as a large group of riflemen enter the woods and start shooting, the deer will move out. you also will find a lot of resistance from landowners. i own a small amount of woods with a lot of deer. i let a couple neighbors bow hunt, but no firearms. i wouldnt voluntarily let a group of strangers in to shoot. and even if i did, it would take years to kill the deer just out of that small area. and i'm pretty certain that there would be injunctions against such a mass hunt before it proceeded very far.

    the dnr is trying to prevent the spread of disease among ash trees by cutting large areas of trees. it is somewhat analogous and it is doubtful that either plan will be successful. and the wholesale killing of wild animals is just not popular with the public.
     
  7. Beavervet

    Beavervet Guest

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    I am glad someone brought forward the extensive regulations regarding VHS a disease that is present in the Great Lakes. VHS testing is very expensive and is putting a large financial burden on Michigan's Acquaculture Industry, the DNR makes them test extensively for this disease on their small farms. Also the minnow regulations require a harvard lawyer to understand, yet the disease is present in the wild throughout the Great Lakes.

    One case of CWD is found on a captive deer farm and the DNR extensively regulates hunters although the disease is not present in wild deer in Michigan and has never been show to adversely affect wild populations of deer.

    Cormorants (DCCO's) have devastated fisheries, in our area near the Beaver Islands they consume 9 million pounds of fish per year and what does the DNR do???????? To this point, very, very little.

    I must be missing something here:banghead3
     
  8. Nick Adams

    Nick Adams

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    The eradication plan does not refer to the DNR shooting them, either. It refers to the DNR killing deer in the eradication zone by whatever method they deem most effective. I can understand where there may be plenty of places in the state where shooting may not be the most effective means of killing deer.

    Elsewhere in the plan they claim they do not need a private landowner's permission for carrying this out after obtaining an emergency declaration from the Governer.

    -na
     
  9. Munsterlndr

    Munsterlndr Cereal Baiter Premium Member

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    Just curious Nick, other than shooting, what other method of killing deer do you imagine the DNR is going to employ? Poison? Land Mines?

    You lost me here, I can't think of another method that would even come close to being as effective as shooting deer over bait, which is what Wisconsin and Illinois resorted to in their eradication efforts.

    While deer are a public resource, I would have a major problem with private property rights being violated through executive fiat. CWD poses no threat to humans or to public health & safety. Using CWD eradication as an excuse to violate private property rights does not sit well with me.
     
  10. oldrank

    oldrank

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    If the DNR starts wiping out the deer herd by using bait wouldnt that be ironic........why cant they make baiting legal and up the tag limit and extend the deer season........oh, that would invole them having to think logically instead of being lobbied by the QDM machine!!!!!!!!!! Overpopulation is what spreads disease........
     
  11. yoopertoo

    yoopertoo

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    "There are no methods that have been proven effective in stopping the expansion of CWD, although a number of things have been tried in other states," said WGFD Director Steve Ferrell. "Recent research in Wisconsin and Colorado has shown us that large-scale culling of animals is ineffective in stopping the spread of the disease or reducing its prevalence. ..."

    https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2348577&postcount=1
     
  12. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    Beaver,
    I think what you're missing is that the cormorant has federally protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act since 1972.
     
  13. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    Now there's a QDM machine? :lol:
    I thought the insurance companies controlled everything? :lol:

    This is all so confusing.

    Tell me, what benefits does this shadowy QDM machine offer MDNR? Bribes? Good jobs with QDM after the biologists retire? Hookers? Free deer bait? :lol::D;)

    I'm a member of QDM. I'd like to know where my donations are being secretly funneled.

    This site gets more illuminating every year. :dizzy::yikes:
     
  14. oldrank

    oldrank

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    They offer votes......Just like all the other groups that lobby the government.......oh my bad that doesnt happen......Let me think of an example of our great political system......the Ex Major of Detroit......such a nice young man......so innocent.....to think that the government is a great group of folks working on behalf of the people to better their everyday lives is only being naive. The QDMers are gaining power over hunting. Pushing for deer management....AKA wild deer farming.......pushing food plots and land improvements......this is all well in good but its unnaturally increasing the carrying compasity of the land......more so then baiting ever could. I know we beat this all to death already but it just seems like they are not making the right moves to battle this disease......and that is to ban captive deer farms. They ban baiting in the wild......where we still don't have CWD. Hmmmm.....looks like they are barking up the wrong tree to me.
     
  15. Beavervet

    Beavervet Guest

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    Yes, indeed! and under the Depredation order the agencies that have permission to participate in cormorant control efforts are the tribe, the USDA-Wildlife Services and the State DNR's. Ohio DNR has been participating in cormorant control for several years, as has New York's and Wisconsin is adopting a plan to reduce DCCO's in Northeastern Wisconsin from 14,800 nesting pairs to under 6,000.