another perspective on cwd

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Disease' started by dogwhistle, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. dogwhistle

    dogwhistle

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    does anyone know (with documentation) whether the game farm deer found to have cwd, contracted it within michigan or was imported from another state. in other words, has the disease in this animal been tracked to it's source?

    if the disease was found to have been imported, what preventitive measueres were in place? the existence of cwd in nearby states is very well known. were game farm deer required to be health inspected upon arrival in Michigan?

    those are not rhetorical questions, i dont know the answers, but i have some strong suspicions. and if dnr is found in the free ranging heard and my suspciions regarding those answers are correct, then the sportsmen of michigan need to hold the dnr responsible. in reality, however, i doubt they will ever do that.
     
  2. William H Bonney

    William H Bonney

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    None of your business
    It's my understanding the those "game farms" play by their own set of rules, sort of speak. I don't think the NRC/DNR has any say so on how they operate. What I wanna know is if anyone is working on any legislation to keep these places in check?
     

  3. FREEPOP

    FREEPOP

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    :lol::lol::lol:
     
  4. dogwhistle

    dogwhistle

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    just a typo. but it is a bit funny.

    game farms used to be regulated by the dept of agriculture. i'm quite certain that the dnr fought for and obtained the responsiblity for their oversight.

    if cwd migrated into the deer herd in the UP, that might be difficult to prevent. however, if cwd was brought into the state by transporting an infected "domestic" deer that is quite another matter. and if it's found among our wild deer, the results will be quite serious. according to the mucc, the plan involves eradicating all deer within a 50 mile radius. i believe that's over 7500 square miles.

    the sportsman and sportsman groups of this state seem to complain and complain but dont take any real action when they are being harmed.
     
  5. Munsterlndr

    Munsterlndr Cereal Baiter Premium Member

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    You have things bass-ackwards. Up until 2002, the DNR had jurisdiction over captive cervid operations. The Deer farmers association lobbied the legislature and were successful in getting Jurisdiction removed from the DNR and turned over to the Dept. of Agriculture. The DNR retains responsibility for monitoring fences for compliance. The MDA is heavily influenced by the farm lobbying groups and has almost no enforcement powers unlike the DNR, so it's little wonder why they wanted to make the switch to being under the MDA.

    It's been illegal to import captive cervids from out of state since 2002, so if a deer was brought in, it was not done legally.

    My guess is that ultimately we will either find out that the deer in question was illegally imported and was substitutes in the records for another deer that died and was disposed of without turning it in for testing or else that some CWD positive deer cape was brought in for taxidermy work from out of state, the deer farm in question also did taxidermy work on the premises.
     
  6. dogwhistle

    dogwhistle

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    if i'm wrong about which agency was responsible, then i'm wrong. by the way- "bass-ackwards" is not a word. i assume you meant "backwards" or "reversed".

    the theory of bringing in a deer illegally has merit. however, i would have thought that all captive deer would have been microchipped and tested reguarly considering the far reaching effect of the disease.

    looking forward, it will be interesting to see the dnr attempt to implement it's plan to eradicate all deer within a 50 mile radius- over 7500 square miles. it's logistically impossible on many levels and the public outcry will be huge, not to mention the lawsuits and injunctions.

    i just spent a month grouse hunting in the northern lower. i saw very few bowhunters in the woods. i'm sure gas prices and the economy are factors, but i also believe the baiting ban is another large one.

    what i really see most of all are state bureacricies at work- reactive, not proactive.
     
  7. Munsterlndr

    Munsterlndr Cereal Baiter Premium Member

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    There is no microchipping like with cattle and not even a uniform method of tagging and keeping records. Different methods are used by different operations and a substantial number of facilities are in non-compliance, at least according to the 2005 captive deer audit done by the DNR. Of course things might have improved since then. :coolgleam
     
  8. FREEPOP

    FREEPOP

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    Deer cannot be tested for CWD until the animal is dead.
     
  9. Munsterlndr

    Munsterlndr Cereal Baiter Premium Member

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    This is no longer true. There is a live test available that tests tonsil tissue. Not as accurate as autopsy but still an alternative for captive deer to be tested without having to de-populate a facility.
     
  10. FREEPOP

    FREEPOP

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    I wasn't aware of that recent new test.

    Bottom line though, the only 99.9% accurate test autopsy.
     
  11. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    It's my understanding that the investigation is leaning heavily towards a "source" deer being brought into the state illegally. In fact, that may be the only focus now. I'll have to check on any new updates.

    But just like those who will illegally bait or those who smuggle a trunk load of pot across the border, why would it suprise anyone that, with some what, 600 deer farms, that a couple traders won't "bend the rules" to make a quick buck? Pick 600 cops or 600 lawyers or 600 doctors or 600 politicians ;), anyone think you're not going to find one bad egg out of those, despite any law? How about 20 bad eggs?

    That's why MDNR has such concern. The paperwork trail with these folks is often shoddy. The facility with the positive deer in Kent county did dealings with other deer farms in at least 12 other counties. MDNR has publically said that. Since the incubation period is long, is there other potentially positive deer in these 12 counties? Some deer farms have deer that are unaccounted for on paper. Did those farms kill and bury any deer they know might have illegal ties? Or worse, did they simply release those deer into the wild?

    Lots of questions. If there is other positive deer in some farms, then we need all 600 deer farms to follow the exact letter of the law, be 100% forthcoming and open and present all paperwork and in order.

    That, to me, is wishful thinking. Especially if someone knows they dealt with some "fishy" people to make or save a quick buck and now want to cover it up to avoid their private herd de-population and/or criminal prosecution.

    With the bait ban, I think MDNR is more concerned about a deer farmer opening the gate and "shu-ing" a deer he knows has illegal ties out the gate and turning it loose into the wild than some wild deer contacting noses with an infected deer thru a fence.

    We need to get vocal about banning or seriously regulating/tax/fee these deer farms. I'm not sure exactly where to start. Do we contact MDA or just go to our legislators?
     
  12. dogwhistle

    dogwhistle

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    pinefarm, i think you are on the right track. it may be too late already for this disease. maybe not, but we'll see.

    but the real point i was trying to make is this: if punitive actions arent taken against the government agency(s) responsible for preventing this disease the situation will continue to repeat itself in the future with new diseases. captive deer could have been microchipped and inspected reguarly with sample tests. baiting could have been banned in the past, it hasnt always been a legal practice.

    i worked in an area of government that was particuarly subject to litigation. we were aware of it in everything we did. and you really leave yourself wideopen for suits when the techology and knowledge is available and you dont use it.

    if you were the person in charge, and were asked on the stand "why didnt you ban baiting of deer when cwd was first discovered close to michigan?" what would you answer? or similiar questions about microchipping and frequent inspections?

    there are frivilous suits and i dont endorse them in the least. but the courts are the only way to hold goverment agencies responsible for bad judgement.
     
  13. ethompson

    ethompson

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    These ranches do have oversight. I have a brother-in-law who owns a whitetail ranch and believe me, they have to get there deer tested. I've spent many days at his breeding facility trying to round up deer and run them through shoots to test them for TB. He's had to do this three years in a row. That's 350 deer rounded up out of 60 acre pens and run through the shoots twice. It is a pain and is a lot of work. He doesn't do it because he wants to.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Staff Member Admin

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    Sounds like the quickest and most definite way to rid our state of this nightmare would be to de-pop all the farms and shut them down.
     
  15. Pinefarm

    Pinefarm

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    Wouldn't it?
    Given the cost/risk, I don't see reason to keep deer farms legal. Or at least make the deer farms carry insurance to cover the loss to the state, with their high risk ventures. Maybe $100,000,000.00 of insurance is a good start.

    What "good" do they provide in trying to domesticate these wild mammals? I know they provide urine for scents, but that sure isn't essential. They also provide meat for high end niche jerky and restuarants. But other than that, what is the deer farms purpose?

    What other wild mammals are farmed here? Bison, I assume, maybe some elk. But why deer for the farms? Why no moose farms or bear farms?

    And for this we risk the entire deer hunting heritage and the tourism industry surrounding that heritage?

    If it was some thing that created a cherry blight, I'd bet Lansing and the legislature would jump and fall all over itself to save the Traverse City area and everything associated with the cherry. There is a strange silence coming from Lansisg on the deer farm issue. Where is Rep. Sheltron on this issue and why isn't he beating his drum?