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A new dog question.

Discussion in 'MichiganWaterfowl.com' started by AaronJohn, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    7 HRCH champs on how many GSP'S run/test in HRC? Compared to how many retrievers run in HRC? Sounds like they do have exceptional eyesight to mark other wise there would not be any. So eyesight you refer to is incorrect, the training or lack of it in very few GSP'S even run or train for HRC.
    If you refer to them as a Leatherman why are their 7 dogs which can meet the standard as a tool used for just that?
    It maybe besides the few GSP'S that run in HRC compared to retrievers, that bias and abusive bullying and unfairly judging because of breed bias or discrimination. I for one decided not to test when entered in a fun hunt. Not only did I get chatised, and fowl language but my dogs health was jeopardized. She ran the water perfectly in finished leved, moved to land and she did not want to pick up a pigeon, she picked it up and dropped, had to give her a second command. When she brought it to me, it reeked of kerosene, which I presented to the judge. They did give me the pass it was a fun hunt, but with such unsportsmanlike behavior, I did not pursue competing. I continued to train at my home club and help others along with helping on test days.
    This maybe why you only have 7 HRCH GSP's if they treated other individuals and especially their dogs like they did myself.
     
  2. Nostromo

    Nostromo

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    A little late to the party I guess. But if it's waterfowl you like look at Labs and Chessies. Pick which ever you like best and then train them to be the dog you want.

    For this Lab v GSP thing. The German dogs are superior canine athletes. There is no serious debate about this. But steady in the blind may not be their best point. (sorry)

    Good luck Aaron.
     
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  3. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    To me that would be a training issue.

    Aaron do your research, there are plenty of breeds out there. Pick one that you and your wife want and put the necessary training in to get what you expect in the end results.

    Do not pick a GSP because of my input. On the other hand do not pick a lab, chessie, pudelpointer, wirehaired, griffon, curly coat retriever, spaniel etc. because of a post. Take the time and pick one breed that is right for you and your family.

    Best of luck Aaron on your new pup.
     
  4. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    Aaron not wanting to change your mind if it is already made. Nor do I want you to pick a GSP because of this post. I do want you to realize every post is an opinion either based on false information, or a dog not a breed. I truly want you to look at all your options. Above all research do your homework that pup once brought home will be with you for 10 to 14 years, barring no unfortunate instance.
    They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I posted not to sway you but hopefully give honest information not for you but more importantly others reading this thread.
    Princess late season ducks.jpg feb14$13jpg.JPG
    So if they can not handle cold why is she sitting in snow, but retrieving those two ducks?
    Also how can prey drive come into a blind retrieve? Notice the ice, it was frozen had a little warm up, and shallow areas offered an opportunity for ducks.

    2010-01-21_0025.jpg

    We broke ice going out, then broke the ice away on in area protected by wind on an island. Dog retrieved all but one. He did not mark one, multiple marks he got but one. He would not take a blind, this was his first time out. Worked on him again on blinds refresher course. Went by myself next day and he did two blind retrieves.

    oct19#17.jpg
    Alvin w geese.jpg

    I can only post 5 files per post so will add a few showing not only still in blind, on boat but on a point away from both hunters each taking a side but allowing the dog to mark.
     
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  5. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    61480004.jpg

    On the point of an island to mark both sides being hunted.
    1121091110b.jpg

    In the blind.
    61470019_019.jpg
    On a boat.
     
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  6. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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  7. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    32900012.jpg
    2010-01-21_0018.jpg
    100_0163.jpg
    Princess with goose.jpg
    ~lwf0009.jpg

    If pictures are worth 1000 words enough said.
    Aaron do your research and get the breed you want. Not saying this is it, many post because they are in love with their dog and breed. They also trash other breeds. I have not trashed any breed except for warning of certain health issues if you so choose that breed, in the hope you do pic one from reputable breeder that has indeed checked sire and dam before breeding.

    Again good luck with your pup.
     
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  8. goose schatt

    goose schatt

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    My post wasn't based on a dog or false information. Your argument about labs having health issues in comparison to shorthairs has some Merrit no doubt.
    But the health issues in retrievers mainly come from irresponsible breeders or dog owners who over feed and under condition their retrievers.

    I feel Aaron would be harder pressed to find a thick skinned shorthair compared to a lab with sound health assuming he fed and conditioned properly

    Another thing to consider is, do you want a dog to do a navhda style search or cast a retriever to a mark? I hunt managed areas and I'm not crazy about just letting my shorthair go for 10 , 20 minutes to find a cripple. I like being able to cast my retriever to the mark as quick as possible as to prevent ducks from getting flaired,and when the shorthair is trained to range out far in the search, I hate to pull him off a hot trail because he's entering the neighboring zone which is a safety issue and not courteous to that group of hunters.

    Upland hunting my pick would be a shorthair for grouse/woodcock

    Flusher for pheasant

    i think Aaron would be happy either way...a lot of personal opinion involved here.
     
  9. michiganoutdoorsman

    michiganoutdoorsman

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    I’d recommend a lab, too. I love mine. I got him as a hunting dog first, but now he’s just my everyday go to guy. Couldn’t imagine life without him. I think I honestly need him more than he needs me. Great in the house and even better in the field, I couldn’t think of a better dog for God to bless me with. All it takes is one look at his face and he can make me happy haha. I’ve recently found him randomly looking at himself in the mirror. I recently did a job at an old guys house and he had a pointer that was bouncing off the walls as a puppy and was too much. I always thought pointers had too much energy. Seems like labs have the perfect on/off switch.
    ImageUploadedByOhub Campfire1515816317.470507.jpg
    ImageUploadedByOhub Campfire1515816396.210389.jpg
    ImageUploadedByOhub Campfire1515816568.468977.jpg ImageUploadedByOhub Campfire1515816589.150556.jpg
     
  10. Nostromo

    Nostromo

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    [​IMG]

    Maybe all the "good boy's" are going to his head.
     
  11. gaustin

    gaustin

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    Sorry to hear of your negative experience at a club's fun hunt. I could see where you would be put off by what you and your dog dealt with. The nice option here in Michigan that there are plenty of clubs and organizations to choose from including Northern Ohio and Indiana. I have been a member of HRC for five years now and pay a membership to two different clubs to be able to train with many wonderful people and different breeds of dogs including GSP's, Boykins, Flat Coats, Wire Hairs, Chessie's, Golden's, Poodles, and obviously Labs including British, English, and American.

    I guess what I'm trying to say here is the situation you explained is not the norm of what I have been part of and is not the idea behind Hunt Clubs no matter the venue. Unfortunately it only takes a couple of bad apples to ruin what is a good thing. If you want please PM me and I can give you a list of clubs I know where you will have a great time.

    Thank you for sharing the photos, I really like the one of the long wooden dock with the cattails making it look like a hallway. You and your hunting partner have enjoyed many beautiful moments and to me that's what it's about.
     
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  12. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    First on the issue of health issues holding merit. Their are more than one breed that has been hurt because of indiscriminate breeding the wiem is one other off the top of my head, either popularity or price they can receive for pups has caused this. Or either because of unscruppalis individuals or by just emotional breeding.

    On the second issue, where does a testing format on judging stamina, nose, cooperation, and steadiness has any bearing on hunt or assuming that all NAVHDA dogs exclusively use this means on all retrieves? You know what they say about assuming. Is this another false or b$ attempt to discredit a breed or breeds? Keep reading the testing format for the invitational. Also what has been said it is all about training.

    Below is a link for GSP'S water test, please click on the link and read info on the test especially the RDX. On the multiple marks the last one is 20 yards to get the dog to break or change positions.

    http://www.gspca.org/Programs/WaterTest/index.html

    On NAVHDA their emphasis is strong on recovering downed game, thus the reason not only duck search is needed to pass with a 4 along with heavy scrutiny on retrieving all through each testing venue on the UT testing.

    This portion of the test is crucial in real hunting situations. Even though the test is ran where they can see the dog, so it maybe JUDGED. It's actual use in hunting situations, is in areas you can not get to or see. Example on Saginaw Bay either the crippled bird is dropped in cattails, or more likely fragmities. The dog can not be cast, directed to the bird. In these instances the balance lays in the dogs abilities and the urge not to quit or be discouraged if the scent is lost and continue to find scent then the bird.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  13. goose schatt

    goose schatt

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    I didn't discredit any breed...doesn't the invitational require minimal handling by the trainer on the double mark? Itdoes say some handling is permitted as long as the dog is following them but minimal was the key word. My point was in most cases NOT all, shorthairs are handled less and use natural ability to track locate and retrieve game
     
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  14. Hunters Edge

    Hunters Edge

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    Yeah that's right because it is a MARK.

    "Not all shorthairs are handled" may have something to do with majority of GSP'S get used by upland hunters. When shown like on this thread they are upland/waterfowl/tracking dogs, they are thwarted with those who know nothing or very little of the breed and with there false information whether unintentionally, or intentually.

    They are pushing others to buy labs etc. So their are far more duck hunters using retrievers than versatile breeds.

    That being said we are not discussing what most people train for or what they use the dog for, but rather what a breed is capable of.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  15. goose schatt

    goose schatt

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    I think that would apply to a blind retrieve as well with a shorthair