close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

A Broken Age Structure & its Aftermath

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Management' started by CCConservative, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. poz

    poz

    Messages:
    2,875
    Likes Received:
    715
    The problem in Michigan isn't the shooting the one-and-a-half-year-old deer. It's the shooting of the two and a half and three and a half year olds, After MAPRs were passed. Until you can get people to voluntary pass those, Michigan will stay the same
     
    itchn2fish likes this.
  2. stickbow shooter

    stickbow shooter

    Messages:
    5,051
    Likes Received:
    3,629
    Ain't nobody passing a 3.5 old on fed land that I know. And probably never will. Unless it's one of those spike bucks we hear about.
     
    otcarcher likes this.

  3. swampbuck

    swampbuck

    Messages:
    16,546
    Likes Received:
    4,257
    Location:
    Majinabeesh
    Well over half of the bucks harvested are 2 yo +. The claim that they aren't out there is false.
     
    itchn2fish and FREEPOP like this.
  4. JVoutdoors

    JVoutdoors

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    566
    Location:
    SW MI and the front range
    interesting that 3 days in Iowa talking to a few people make one an expert and one's opinion is worthy of following. Must work for the government also.
     
  5. farmlegend

    farmlegend Say My Name.

    Messages:
    14,298
    Likes Received:
    5,406
    Location:
    Northville Resident/Hillsdale Farm Owner
    Apex fallacy.
     
    Walt Donaldson, otcarcher and sniper like this.
  6. motdean

    motdean

    Messages:
    3,452
    Likes Received:
    1,617
    FL, Please explain how that statement is an Apex Fallacy....


    Here is why I am asking for your clarification....
    If I understand what an Apex Fallacy is correctly, it is an incorrect conclusion based on the performance of the best group members, not a representative sample.

    If you are saying that only the better hunters are shooting the larger, older deer, I would agree, for the most part. Sometimes an inexperienced guy gets luck and shoots one...

    However, it doesn't mean that the larger, older deer aren't out there, only that the better hunters are typically bagging them.
     
    itchn2fish and Bucman like this.
  7. CCConservative

    CCConservative

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    85
    Location:
    Yale Michigan
    The top guys on the bass fishing tournaments know the spreed, depth, color, temperature, and action...thats why they are successful...its no different for deer hunters...anyone can hunt over a food plot and score if your patient...but the Jumbos consistently taken by a small group of hunters are a different caliber of Hunter. They pattern deer year round...consider summer range and food source changes to score on those bigger bucks...anyone can shoot a yearling buck..but too shoot 4yr old bucks here in Michigan is extremely challenging...not many to go around to feed the masses.
     
  8. motdean

    motdean

    Messages:
    3,452
    Likes Received:
    1,617

    CCC,
    What you say makes sense, but that does not make Joe's original statement an Apex Fallacy. I don't see what conclusion that he drew incorrectly by looking at the performance of only the best.

    IF he had said that everyone in Michigan is able to shoot a 4 year old, then I would agree. Heck, even with APR's, I'd be willing to bet that there would still be some that wouldn't be able to....for lack of ability, not lack of deer.
     
    Trout King, itchn2fish and Dish7 like this.
  9. feedinggrounds

    feedinggrounds

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    Skidway lake
    So it is not how the MDNR is managing the deer and hunters as you have said, it is the skill level of the hunter. Ok fair enough, I have a food plot and some patience...and 2 gallons of corn. I will take that yearling and never see the Jumbo, but with your high caliber hunting skills you can meet the challenge! Happy hunting. May the magic of the "Jumbo" whitetail enrich your life.
     
  10. CCConservative

    CCConservative

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    85
    Location:
    Yale Michigan
    I've bee
    It's a two fold problem...theres never going to be enough 4yr olds in Michigan to satisfy the masses and Hunter abilities for the most part are really misguided here. In Michigan shooting a mature buck takes on the most stealthy approach and strategy...your tactics have to be clearly different than hunting a yearling buck.
     
    plugger likes this.
  11. FREEPOP

    FREEPOP

    Messages:
    19,878
    Likes Received:
    4,288
    Are there ever enough 4 y/o to satisfy everyone in any other state?
     
  12. DecoySlayer

    DecoySlayer

    Messages:
    10,034
    Likes Received:
    9,315
    Location:
    Monroe
    The best way, and it will take time, to get good bucks, every where, is to get the buck to doe ratio down to no greater than 4 does to each buck. One to one, or two to one is even better. Too many does makes it easy for "junk bucks" to get some. Make them fight, things will improve. Then you will start seeing 18 month old ten points. Age is not the strongest determining factor, genetics, weather, food supplies, etc, all play a greater roll. A narrow buck to doe ratio would play the greatest role in over all herd health.
     
    itchn2fish likes this.
  13. CCConservative

    CCConservative

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    85
    Location:
    Yale Michigan
    THE SPIN STOPS HERE - our DNR is not managing whitetails for every aspect that would benefit the whitetail resource...they manage them to satisfy people like yourself that learn how to shoot more than your legal limit...as far as hunters skill levels there is a difference...I suggest you talk to honest hunters who have taken their share of bucks 4yrs old or older...there not hunting over a 2 GALLON bucket of corn!!
     
    otcarcher likes this.
  14. feedinggrounds

    feedinggrounds

    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    Skidway lake
    Are they hunting over a 2 acre corn field not much difference. You accuse much? Are you a honest hunter, a good hunter or a do as I say not a do as I do guy?
     
    itchn2fish likes this.