and my question is if my blind can't be seen from the road, but can be seen from the sky, how can you tell i'm elevated or not? I mean its obvious if i'm 20'+ off the ground, but what about 2'-6' off the ground?
The original intent of muzzleloader season was and still is to load your powder and projectile from the muzzle. It was never a primitive weapons season.
I knew the man that started the push for a muzzleloading season and it was indeed his intent to have a primitive season. His wishes simply weren't followed.
IMO, they ruined muzzleloading season when they allowed in-line muzzleloaders. The original intent of the season was to create a primitive season, I would like to see them add a primitive muzzleloader and primitive bows season to an early season.
If the framers of the muzzle loading deer season, and also MI's first archery deer season had proposed what we have now, it would never have even been considered. Both have been pillaged, raped and otherwise screwed to the point that they dont much even resemble their intended purpose and scope. I'd love for going back.
Gotta love the Nanny State our Country is turning into. NOT ! Heart Attacks kill more hunters than errant shots . Maybe we can carry EKG test results and a doctors note saying we are fit to hunt. How about a new line of hunter orange bubble wrap we can wrap around us. :gaga:
For those who don't wear orange on their own property just remember others don't care about your safety if they don't know the property lines. I was at my friends place years ago and had two guys walk up on me at the back of the property. They didn't have orange on and had to walk over 2 miles to get to where they were. Just after I seen them go by, I herd them shoot. I was ok due to being in a tree stand but when they were dragging the deer out they seen me get down and didn't know where they were. Good thing I wasn't down range of their shot. I always make sure I have 360 orange on.
I don't see a reason for all the hooplah. Situational awareness isn't a static thing. What two or more neighbors know and do today may be totally different tomorrow. Who owns the ground a blind rests on is irrelevant when it comes to safety. If Orange on a blind works on public it works on private. If it doesn't, it's equally worthless and should be scrapped.
I don't see a reason for all the hooplah. Situational awareness isn't a static thing. What two or more neighbors know and do today may be totally different tomorrow. Who owns the ground a blind rests on is irrelevant when it comes to safety. If Orange on a blind works on public it works on private. If it doesn't, it's equally worthless and should be scrapped.
I suppose the State should pass a law requiring me to wear a seatbelt when I'm driving across my own privately owned field. Intelligent people wear seatbelts and utilize "orange" but I don't need nor want the government making every little decision regarding my personal safety and well being
Finally got a chance to read it all, thats a pretty big swing at the antlerless deer. Should know the hell out of the deer population.
I suspect they maybe trying to mitigate the effect of the baiting ban, No matter. The legislators and watchdog group is ready to go when covid 19 has passed.
It just seems like the DNR is trying to wage war against Michigan's deer population statewide. Even in the U.P. where we have had two severe winters in a row, the DNR is justifying a liberalization in antlerless harvest by actually lying and saying that this winter and last winter were mild when their own data contradicts those idiotic notions. They got rid of the winter severity index and also eliminated herd assessments by any other means than trends in the kill rate and general observations. Well, the hunter success rate dropped in 2019 indicating that the winter of 2018/19 was certainly not "mild' as they claimed. The fawn to doe ratio was also down too, so that also flies in the face of their BS. To say that this past winter of 2019/20 was mild is also moronic. We had snow on the ground from early Nov. through late April. There was no graze on my food plots yet this past week and we still had snow piles all over too. To the north it is worse. Anybody that would call this past winter "mild" is not grounded in reality, or has other motives for a deception. Very disappointed in the DNR with this pack of garbage they put out. I'm actually starting to think that a massive cut in their budget might not be a bad thing and may force them to rethink their stupidity.
There's nothing I'm seeing that will maintain or improve hunter numbers in those changes. In fact, just the opposite will happen down the road when a lot of hunters see fewer deer and throw in the towel as a result. They are just looking for a quick increase in antlerless tag sales, which will ultimately cost them money in the long run.
An orange flag on your blind will make sure every deer that steps out will be watching you. Pile up all the brush you want but those old does will have you pegged as soon as the flag moves.
If we are really concerned about safety, a flag could be an option, but the fickle nature of the wind might negate its advantage. Being as how we cannot count on the wind, how about a slowly rotating light not only on blinds but on our caps too? If we were required to have something that alerted deer to our presence the NRC could make the seasons much longer and not be concerned about substantially increasing the harvest. FM
I don’t think it’s an issue for most properties in the NLP and UP, although we have had an occasional issue with neighbors coming on our property after a wounded animal and without permission. They have no idea where our blinds are (or maybe they do).
I can see it being more of an issue in Southern Michigan where you have more open country and a bullet could travel onto another property.
It’s not a big deal to me, someone will be selling 12” squares of orange that can be screwed on the 4 sides of my blind.
More silly rules and even though it might be practical in Southern Michigan
we must make it an onerous proposition
for ALL OF MICHIGAN NOT JUST THOSE MOST AFFECTED....just like the Governors COPID rules.
Is the law of averages always the appropriate protection level for low density populations? Are stop signs in sparsely populated areas unnecessarily onerous too?
Of course they are! How is a guy supposed to look out in the fields for shooters and strutters if he has to worry about stop signs or stop lights every mile or so?
That's why I've come to appreciate the roundabouts that caused such a stir a few years back -- best way to handle 'em? Just don't ever stop...
I don’t think it’s an issue for most properties in the NLP and UP, although we have had an occasional issue with neighbors coming on our property after a wounded animal and without permission. They have no idea where our blinds are (or maybe they do).
I can see it being more of an issue in Southern Michigan where you have more open country and a bullet could travel onto another property.
It’s not a big deal to me, someone will be selling 12” squares of orange that can be screwed on the 4 sides of my blind.
More silly rules and even though it might be practical in Southern Michigan
we must make it an onerous proposition
for ALL OF MICHIGAN NOT JUST THOSE MOST AFFECTED....just like the Governors COPID rules.
What??? That is what is happening with the shortened proposed ML season for the lower! That's right, no more ML season on their proposal statewide to agree with the ML rules in the CWD areas.
It has to be 144 square inches of solid hunter orange on every side (4) of a portable blind.
Stewart said the intent was for portable blinds but whether the final vote will be for all ground blinds or portables was not clear to me. Elevated blinds are not to be included. One commissioner asked about someone pushing up 4-6 feet of dirt under a blind. Was that then an elevated blind and excluded? I did not hear an answer given to that question. It seemed as if there were a lot of holes and unanswered questions with this reg. It also seemed to have the most hunter push back at least for private land.
I don't think we need more regulation about orange on blinds but enforce the laws on wearing orange. When I was a kid and red and black plaid was the color to wear. We watched the news to see how many were shot that day. The bright orange does save lots of lives.
I did some quick on-line research. There may be more or better data available, but this is what I found for hunting accidents/incidents in 2 states that do not require orange on blinds. I did not search for hunter accident/incident data from the states that DNR references that have orange on blind requirements. Perhaps someone else here can do that research.
1 reported incident in Michigan between 2014 and 2019. 1 incident in 6 years based on the web pages above
1 reported incident in Minnesota between 2002 and 2018 1 incident in 17 years based on the web pages above
If someone has other data, please share it with the group. Perhaps a larger data set would show a problem. Perhaps there has been a State with a greater number of 'shots fired into hard to see ground blinds during a firearms deer season'. If there is, then let's look at the circumstances of those incidents.
I'm not anti-hunter orange. I agree that hunter orange clothing makes it easier to see hunters in the woods. I am anti-mandate if the regulation does not solve a real, common, frequently occurring, safety problem. Michigan DNR has not demonstrated that there is a common or frequently occurring safety problem that they are trying to address with this very broad proposal.
I did some quick on-line research. There may be more or better data available, but this is what I found for hunting accidents/incidents in 2 states that do not require orange on blinds. I did not search for hunter accident/incident data from the states that DNR references that have orange on blind requirements. Perhaps someone else here can do that research.
1 reported incident in Michigan between 2014 and 2019. 1 incident in 6 years based on the web pages above
1 reported incident in Minnesota between 2002 and 2018 1 incident in 17 years based on the web pages above
If someone has other data, please share it with the group. Perhaps a larger data set would show a problem. Perhaps there has been a State with a greater number of 'shots fired into hard to see ground blinds during a firearms deer season'. If there is, then let's look at the circumstances of those incidents.
I'm not anti-hunter orange. I agree that hunter orange clothing makes it easier to see hunters in the woods. I am anti-mandate if the regulation does not solve a real, common, frequently occurring, safety problem. Michigan DNR has not demonstrated that there is a common or frequently occurring safety problem that they are trying to address with this very broad proposal.
Thank you very much for all the research you did...I really appreciate that and again, I am not an expert at anything, much less hunting blind fatalities, but it does seem a little excessive and not really aimed at solving an existing issue or even one that was ever really there. As you said, I am not anti-orange and have even wore a bit of orange when bow hunting in more populated areas, but if there has not been a trend of injuries to blind sitters from other hunters, why adopt mandates that just adds more to the mix? Sometimes it reminds me of our management team at work...I swear they all sit around thinking of what corny policies they can adopt or procedures they can add to complicate an already simple, efficient process. I believe they have to come up with something to justify their paycheck and position and just use the poke and hope theory to create policies. If I was in a position of authority in the DNR, I would consult with my top people as well as those out in the trenches to find out what are the top 5 most important and relevant issues regarding hunting and the deer herd and work on those exclusively. If blind sitters getting killed or maimed is in the top 5, spend time addressing it...if not, move on to something more worthwhile.
It has to be 144 square inches of solid hunter orange on every side (4) of a portable blind.
Stewart said the intent was for portable blinds but whether the final vote will be for all ground blinds or portables was not clear to me. Elevated blinds are not to be included. One commissioner asked about someone pushing up 4-6 feet of dirt under a blind. Was that then an elevated blind and excluded? I did not hear an answer given to that question. It seemed as if there were a lot of holes and unanswered questions with this reg. It also seemed to have the most hunter push back at least for private land.
I think this is the intent. I have seen these in use. It is what our neighbor used and i could pick it out at 300yds.
I dont see an issue with this type of requirement. Other states have the rule. It is no different than sitting in a tree with an orange coat on.
View attachment 533141
It has to be 144 square inches of solid hunter orange on every side (4) of a portable blind.
Stewart said the intent was for portable blinds but whether the final vote will be for all ground blinds or portables was not clear to me. Elevated blinds are not to be included. One commissioner asked about someone pushing up 4-6 feet of dirt under a blind. Was that then an elevated blind and excluded? I did not hear an answer given to that question. It seemed as if there were a lot of holes and unanswered questions with this reg. It also seemed to have the most hunter push back at least for private land.
My blind sets on 8x8 timbers cribbed 4 rows high, was planning to add 2 or 3 more rows anyway. I ain't putting orange on a permanent blind I worked so hard to blend in. I screwed deck screws into blind and stretched fence wire zig zag around it and shove brush behind wire. 1/4 mile behind a locked gate. Come find me and hand me my ticket.
i always take an old blaze hoodie and tie it around a tree next to my ground blind on opening day. Then pack it out when I take my blind down. It is pretty simple and if someone else sets up close by, they can see that I am there.
I wouldn’t put a flag up. It says 144 sq in, so I’d put 12”x12” of plastic or steel orange
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