And this:
"Be sure you are up-to-date on your state's laws regarding videotaping or filming before installing a camera. You can do this by speaking with a local attorney".
For me to believe that camera evidence would stick in court in Michigan I would have to see it with my own eyes. Googling cases from around the country mean nothing, it's state laws that count and my friend I trust told me the DNR said camera evidence won't hold up in court.
Haven't you ever seen a story on the news that started.....police are looking for information on this person? Then they show pictures or video of a suspect.
I don’t know what it is with trespassers and smoking. There must be some correlation because smoking now mainly occurs with lower income folks. It typically seems that it’s deer hunters from the lower class that openly disrespect their neighbors, like in these type threads. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-but-the-poor-didnt/?utm_term=.3536b629c87a
The big fat slob bear houndsmen that trespass all over our area all seem to have a smoke going at all times. And the seem to be walking heart attacks because all of them I’ve found on my property seem around 150lbs over weight, while they ironically stopped for a smoke, to catch their breath. With all the trespassing they do, you’d think they’d be in better shape.
Back in the days when guys would sneak over from the public land to hunt our blinds, not only could you follow their boot tracks down our 2 tracks back to the fence line, but they always left a mountain of cigarette butts in the blinds.
I’ve never caught a bear guy on my land that didn’t have a smoke going.
I'm having a hard time believing that video or photos can not be used as evidence as long as the photo/video has a clear, no doubt view of their face. Also, trees/shrubs in the background would be needed to pinpoint location.
Your knowledge is only from what a friend told you many years ago ?
I would never prosecute this type of scumbag. Too often they get a vendetta against you and make your life hell. In fact I don’t think you can prosecute them unless they’re dumb enough to confess. Unless the laws have changed….years ago I had a friend who set up cameras and the DNR told him they would not hold up as evidence n court.
Seems to me the best plan is to approach these two and tell them they can hunt as long as they keep everyone else off. Might even be able to get them to do a little QDM work around there.
I can't believe what you wrote.I would never give into these scum bags and let them hunt my land.i am 72 past my fighting age but I would not give into them.I got plenty of friends with older boys that would love to help me if I need it
Pictures and videos are used everyday to prosecute otherwise every store and gas station on earth wouldn't use them...It's a very important tool in society today...Because a cam is hung on a tree makes zero difference...
And this:
"Be sure you are up-to-date on your state's laws regarding videotaping or filming before installing a camera. You can do this by speaking with a local attorney".
For me to believe that camera evidence would stick in court in Michigan I would have to see it with my own eyes. Googling cases from around the country mean nothing, it's state laws that count and my friend I trust told me the DNR said camera evidence won't hold up in court.
I'm not sure if your friend heard about that (cam evidence and it's usefulness in court) from one CO, or whoever at the MDNR, but I know for me that wouldn't be the bottom line in a list of people to ask legal advice.
The only reason those videos work is if the police can intimidate the scumbag into a confession when they confront him. If the scumbag is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and tell the cops to talk to his lawyer there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence.
It's illegal to detain a trespasser so it would seem the only way is if you see them in a tree stand (and they don't see you) and you call the law who then catches them in the act...that would work.
I know first hand that the law will not even knock on a door and say a hunter found a huge pile of home remodeling trash (roof shingles, patio door, windows, toilet, bathroom sink, etc.) dumped on state land with mail in it and your address on it. The law said they would have to catch them in the act to do anything.
I called the DNR, Standish police and State police because I just couldn't believe it and thought I was getting brushed off. I don't know what position the DNR guy held but he suggested that I haul the stuff home for my trash pickup!
The only reason those videos work is if the police can intimidate the scumbag into a confession when they confront him. If the scumbag is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and tell the cops to talk to his lawyer there is no way that video can be even admitted in court as evidence.
It's illegal to detain a trespasser so it would seem the only way is if you see them in a tree stand (and they don't see you) and you call the law who then catches them in the act...that would work.
I know first hand that the law will not even knock on a door and say a hunter found a huge pile of home remodeling trash (roof shingles, patio door, windows, toilet, bathroom sink, etc.) dumped on state land with mail in it and your address on it. The law said they would have to catch them in the act to do anything.
Sorry BB but this statement isn't even close to being accurate. Video and still photos from surveillance (and, yes, even trail cameras) can and often are introduced into evidence in the same manner as any other type of evidence.
It is true that law enforcement officers generally can not make an arrest for misdemeanors unless they are committed in his/her presence. However, under these circumstances the LEO will complete an investigation, submit his report to the prosecutor and the prosecutor will issue a warrant for arrest at which time the perpetrator will be arrested. Confessions, while nice, are not necessary to make an arrest or to successfully prosecute. That is where "physical" evidence comes into play - things like trail cam photos and perpetrators names and addresses found among trash dumping.
Sorry BB but this statement isn't even close to being accurate. Video and still photos from surveillance (and, yes, even trail cameras) can and often are introduced into evidence in the same manner as any other type of evidence.
It is true that law enforcement officers generally can not make an arrest for misdemeanors unless they are committed in his/her presence. However, under these circumstances the LEO will complete an investigation, submit his report to the prosecutor and the prosecutor will issue a warrant for arrest at which time the perpetrator will be arrested. Confessions, while nice, are not necessary to make an arrest or to successfully prosecute. That is where "physical" evidence comes into play - things like trail cam photos and perpetrators names and addresses found among trash dumping.
No decent lawyer would ever let that stuff be brought into evidence, much less shown to a jury. More likely the scumbag could turn around and sue the state and the land owner, etc. for slander. It's all moot anyway because the state would never get into it that far for a misdemeanor like trespassing or trash dumping.
In response to the complaints of people dumping their trash and what I did when I was much younger. One evening while cutting through a field on my way home, I saw someone dumping garbage bags off the side of the road near my house. I had a paper route at the time and recognized the truck and driver. Being the rascal that I was, my cousin and I took the garbage bags to the guys house and left it scattered on his driveway and front lawn. In the morning on the way to school, we walked past the house to check it out. The guy that dumped the garbage was coming out of his house and was not happy.
Well, I just had a long talk with Bill (Moultane) and among a bunch of other things found out he lives on Jeanette Dr…. just off Bunyak. Lol! They’re all nothing but two tracks but I guess they have to name them something.
I asked if I could use his name, he laughed and said since he’s had his picture and a story on the front page of both the Bay City Times and Arenac News for his work with Adopt-a-Forest he didn’t think it would matter.
Before he found out about the Adopt-a Forest program and that the state would supply him with dumpsters he went out and dug up his own sponsors to help him pay for two dumpsters. He got a buddy with a front loader to haul out the heavy stuff at the oldest dumps and the DNR blocked two short dead-end roads that Bill said were old time dump sites. One day when he was there two guys got threatening with him for blocking the roads.
He would still be at it but his health has never been good since he got into a bad car wreck some 30 years ago. They came very close to amputating both his legs they were busted up so bad.
Nowadays he has to go in for pain shots and they are losing their effect.
I asked him if he ever knew of anyone getting successfully prosecuted for dumping trash and he didn’t know of anyone. But he did say he found a couple bags once with plenty of evidence in addresses and names, and gave it to the sheriff who confronted the scumbags but Bill didn’t know what happened.
Guys roll deer carcasses into our ditch all the time. Sometimes with kill tags still on them. Those get returned. Into lawns, truck beds, one time over a fence but it didn't make it to the pool. Not easy to fling a carcass that far.
Shame is you know they don't learn and just go dump them somewhere else. But we take the tags off first so they don't know how we figure it out.
Why do you think cops have dash cams if that could not be used as evidence.
The DNR will set trail cams to catch people. Photos and video can and will get you busted
Nitro...Please read at least my last comment above your comment. We're talking about common trespassing and convincing a judge. Your link is just too abstract in this simple subject.
Do you remember this story. It was talked about at length on this site. The landowner had video of the trespassing and altercation from a cell phone. He turned it over to police. Police asked for help on the news and got a dozen responses immediately. The man was charged with a felony for assault and recreational trespass. The guy did not admit guilt he lawyered up immediately and refused to talk to police.....
He bumped him with his quad and almost knocked him over. The landowner confronted him about trespassing on his land. He videotaped the entire ordeal with his phone. The only evidence was the video. He was ticketed for recreational trespass.
Wow! I just got caught up here, hadn't checked in for a while and it looks like I missed a lot! Haha!
Beetlebomb, do you have a red/gray beard and an orange headband??? Lol! Seems like a lot of effort to debunk the photo evidence!
As for the update, the last time I checked, the case was about to be presented to prosecutors.
Some were asking if the trespassers were id'd and they indeed were. It wasn't difficult and the local sheriff knew the family well.
We will see what happens but in the meantime I plan on some tornado effect impacting the entire north edge of my property and will be planting more well hidden cameras at any potential entry points for next fall.
Wow! I just got caught up here, hadn't checked in for a while and it looks like I missed a lot! Haha!
Beetlebomb, do you have a red/gray beard and an orange headband??? Lol! Seems like a lot of effort to debunk the photo evidence!
As for the update, the last time I checked, the case was about to be presented to prosecutors.
Some were asking if the trespassers were id'd and they indeed were. It wasn't difficult and the local sheriff knew the family well.
We will see what happens but in the meantime I plan on some tornado effect impacting the entire north edge of my property and will be planting more well hidden cameras at any potential entry points for next fall.
You people just don’t get it! Trespassing is a huge problem and how in the world can too much be said about it?
Each comment, especially controversial comments bring up new information and maybe new ideas, and I’m being told to stop!? I don’t know why I waste my time on you people.
Here is your update guys.
So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. They looked everything over, then heard the trespassers story which was, “I was tracking a deer.” And decided to drop the case. No fines, no penalties, just advised to stay out of my property.
There you have it.
As soon as I get a free weekend I will be hinge cutting the entire north border of my property. Not sure what else I can do.
Here is your update guys.
So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. They looked everything over, then heard the trespassers story which was, “I was tracking a deer.” And decided to drop the case. No fines, no penalties, just advised to stay out of my property.
There you have it.
As soon as I get a free weekend I will be hinge cutting the entire north border of my property. Not sure what else I can do.
I know it sucks. Somehow you have to get eyes on your property. Is there anyone one around you can trust to watch the property? Maybe allow a turkey hunter permission to hunt if they watch the property? I haven’t followed your post completely so I don’t know how much land you have but I was given permission to hunt a piece of land with instructions to stay in that specific area as long I watched the property. Confronted some hunters that didn’t know the lines and some did. Bottom line was that once they knew someone was watching it, problems went away. Did that for 15 years.
So the entire County of Saginaw where keep out no trespassing signs are posted is now considered state land open to hunting and recreational usage . Anyone know of any other countries with spineless prosecutors . Need more choices !!! . On the bright side you weren’t held in contempt of court and for that your a good man my friend .
Sorry to hear, after all the alleged hassle they caused you.
On the bright side, 1) sounds almost like a precedent... and it's all good if I need to track onto private property, and 2) it sprouted a fun thread for everyone else.
BTW - prosecutor sounds like an idiot for buying their story... and / or spineless, as RJM wrote.
Based on all the replies here, you may be able to get a little bit of help from a few people here supporting whoever running against him or her next time, assuming it's an elected position.
Was doing a google search for convictions in Michigan for recreational trespassing. It took a turn for me to a 2007 thread here on MS by the title of
“Purple paint equals no trespassing “ from the 4 out of 7 pages I read the thread was a good read . It was interesting and sad that nothing has changed in regards to Michigan having the weakest laws and prosecutions on recreational trespassing in the country . My take was Same ol shi/ different year . What can we as sportsman - land owners do to get things changed . Petitions , calls to state reps who hunt , see if MUCC would be willing to take up this agenda /fight or DNR law division.
Suggestions anyone ?
Thanks
It is too bad that the paint law bill Susan Tabor sponsored did not became law. This was quite a few years ago if I remember right. I do not under stand why the color of purple being the choice other that it would require a special mix of that color. Instead of just grabbing some white paint to mark with on public land to make it look like private.
I hunted spring turkeys in VA a couple of times where they use white or silver paint to mark boundaries. I could see a boundary at over 100 years in the gloom of dawn on one public land I hunted. It was nice to drive down the road and see the paint on the trees than a mish mash of not trespassing signs.
So it is now legal to trespass if you are tracking a wounded deer? Somebody needs to encourage the prosecutor to read the entire statute:
Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon the property of another person, other than farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property, to engage in any recreational activity or trapping on that property without the consent of the owner...
The sole exception is:
(4) A person other than a person possessing a firearm may, unless previously prohibited in writing or orally by the property owner or his or her lessee or agent, enter on foot upon the property of another person for the sole purpose of retrieving a hunting dog.
I would be doing everything in my power to get a new prosecutor elected...
So it is now legal to trespass if you are tracking a wounded deer? Somebody needs to encourage the prosecutor to read the entire statute: ..........
I would be doing everything in my power to get a new prosecutor elected...
Exactly! Surely every hunter/landowner is a member of one or another sportsmen's clubs. In the groups I have been affiliated with we were always looking for interesting speakers so.......invite the prosecutor to a meeting and ask him or her to speak on topics of interest: F&G laws, lake access, etc. AND trespass enforcement. Probably would get best results close to election time.
There are a lot of things out there that our elected officials (and enforcement officers too) have to juggle so they need to know what their constituents deem important to help them prioritize.
"The squeaky wheel gets the grease" as they say. FM
Here is your update guys.
So after 4 months, all evidence, police reports, photos etc was submitted by Saginaw county police to the prosecuter. ...................
I believe you are saying that you never met with the prosecutor to express your desire to prosecute.
Did you have the opportunity to do so or did you ask to met with that person ? I do not have any personal experience with this kind of problem, but after reading a few of these stories I believe I would definitely try to met with the prosecutor to try to improve the chances of prosecution.
I believe you are saying that you never met with the prosecutor to express your desire to prosecute.
Did you have the opportunity to do so or did you ask to met with that person ? I do not have any personal experience with this kind of problem, but after reading a few of these stories I believe I would definitely try to met with the prosecutor to try to improve the chances of prosecution.
You are correct. I never met with the prosecutor. I reported everything to a detective and told him I wanted to press recreational trespass charges. He took the report and told me no further action was needed when I asked repeatedly if there was anything else I needed to do. The next time he called was to say it got thrown out.
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