Muzzleloaders Good and Bad?

Discussion in 'General Michigan Hunting' started by Sled Solutions, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. I have one of the .50 caliber Knight disc rifles. I have had it for about the past five years and have taken multiple deer with it. I personally think that Knight and TC are your best bet. Either one of the brands with a good quality scope on top of it will be your best bet. Also, if you go with Knight think about trying out one of the ones with a thumbhole stock. I think it makes a big difference.

    Good luck hunting!!

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  2. Nobody's fooling anybody, one look at the materials is all that is needed. Now, like I said before, they are accurate and in the end that is all that matters, but to say they are the same quality as the more expenive TC, is simply untrue. The CVA quality is enough to get the job done, but considering the quality of the steel they use, you wouldn't catch me snuggling up behind that stock and pulling the trigger with a full 150gr powder charge.

  3. I just started black powder hunting last year. Bought a Knight rifle from Gander, came in a kit with sabbots, loaders and cleaning jag. I love it, super accurate for black powder, I cant wait to hunt with it this year, I was truely impressed and would reccomend it to any beginner looking for an inexpensive, yet dependable rifle.
  4. Alpha Male

    Alpha Male Guest

    SwampMonster - Do you have any links to incidents arrising out of the Spanish steel failing in CVA and other Spanish made rifles like the Winchester APEX? Yes, there are more tool marks and the fit is spartan, but they do shoot just like you said. Never heard of one going KABOOM though, and am curious.

    My go to gun is an Encore .50 caliber from the second year of production. It's a fickle beauty.

    I picked up a .NIB 50 Caliber Hawken copy by CVA one Christmas season at Gander Mountain for a no-chit out the door price of $35. It throws patched lead round balls into 2" inches at 85 yards all day with garbage sights. And it ain't *that* ugly...
  5. Thompson Center all the way. The materials are much better than CVA. I have 2 of them Omega and New Englander. Both are great guns. I don't believe they make the New Englander any more. I owned a CVA Apollo and it was Junk. The springs to pop the caps were so weak that the gun would only fire one out of three times. Not good when your looking down the barrel at a nice buck. I do think the CVA's have improved over the years but the quality still isn't close to TC. Just my opinion (from a person that has owned both makes).
  6. I like the traditional muzzle loaders, 54 cal. Hawken, or a thompson center 50 cal.. If I had to choose a modern inline muzzle loader it would probley be the thompson center encore mostly because of the interchangable barrels.

  7. I've owned Knight, Ultimate, TC and CVA and can honestly say that I like the TCs the best although I have a heartfelt love my my Knight MK-85 and Disc because i have smacked so many critters with them.

    I've used the Ultimate since it was a prototype but I got tired of lugging the brute everywhere I went. On a whim I got a TC Omega with a Zeiss 10X40 and thats my main gun I absolutly love it. You don't have to spend the big buck for accuracy though I've seen many Wal=Mart CVA's shoot better than the $2000 ultimate.
  8. I'm not into it as much as some.My thought pattern is this...If you are only going to use it during the muzzleloader season(this was before this year) why spend hundreds of dollars for something you might only use a couple of times during the season...(my time schedule)..But with that said I own a CVA and it shoots great,I dont want to spend the extra hundreds for the top of the line,I have a shotgun for regular season as well as a rifle,I dont need anything extravagent..Some have mentioned the TC Encore it is probably by far the top end..without spending over a $1000,which I have seen some special order muzzleloaders cost...But with the Encore you can, get this, 86 different barrells for it..muzzleloader to a 22 hornet up to .416...that's just crazy ... :yikes: ..I would think about it this way...haw often are you going to use it,time spent in the woods each year with it then base your shopping from there..
  9. Alpha,
    No I have not seen any CVA's blow up personaly. I've heard of it happening though and I've seen some pics in other forums showing damage, but not out right blow ups where the gun ends up in two pieces. And considering some of it is from internet forums, I take it with a grain of salt because its hard to say if it was not operator error. (I'm willing to bet more times than not, the operator is at fault) And maybe today, CVA/Winchester and Traditions are pressure testing their barrels to higher pressures like TC and Knight. I know Winchester had lots of problems with the X-150 bolt they opriginaly offered, well labled anyway, we know Winchester does not make them. The Apex is just a CVA Kodiak. I know one person with an apex in .45 and it shoots pretty good, but the gun just does not have the quality feel that TC or Knight has. There is no way around cutting corners when the manufacturer is trying to meet a lower selling price. I really like the NEF's, they are a good value, but the materials and fit and finish is not that of a $400-$500 gun. In NEF's case, they have a pretty simple manufacturing process that hasn't changed in decades so they can afford to sell those guns at a rock bottom price.

    The Newer CVA's like the optima etc are decent guns, no doubt and probably a decent value for the price, but you can get the TC or a Knight for almost the same money. I've seen those optima pro's selling for close to $400 so they aren't exactly cheap.
  10. Thanks gentlmen all very good information. With all that said I've determined that I don't want to shoot the snap caps. I was told the shoot gun primer is the way to go. What does that do for my selection??
  11. You would be hard pressed to find an inline gun today that doesn't use 209 shotgun primers. Some of the older models that are still available still use a #10 cap, but most offer an upgrade kit to 209 if you want to....some work better than others due to design. My Rem 700 is set up to use #10 or musket caps which are a littel hotter than #10's, never had a misfire, I still use the musket caps. Rem makes a conversion to 209, but it is not really a good set up in that gun to be honest, way to much blowback.
  12. That's what I figured, the advice came from someone who has a older muzzleloader so I wasn't sure if it still was common amoungst new muzzleloaders.

  13. You want to shoot 209 shotgun primers and all the makes you mention are available with the 209 ignition. The more traditional sidelocks most likely will not offer you the 209 ignition choice, so your probably looking at a modern inline for your weapon.

    On a side note I just got the Nov. Natchez catalog last night. :) I guess timing is everything. :lol: Anyway, of the three makes you mentioned all had some sales going on. The best value, imo, on each make are these (I'm going to give you the best buy from each make, because this is a personal decision and I don't want to get into any type of bash fest, besides, I have one gun from each of them). :lol: Also, I'm keeping this statement you made in my recomendation "I don't want to spend a ton of money since I will only use it once a year but also don't want a pile."

    TC Black Diamond (blue/composite) - Reg price $249 sale price $235.

    Knight Wolverine 209 (stainless/composite) - Reg price $313 sale price $250.

    CVA Eclipse Magnum (blue/camo composite) - Reg price $163 sale price $99.

    Blue = Blued steel hardware.
    Stainless = Stainless steel hardware.
    Composite = Composite stock.

    I have a TC New Englander for my traditional gun, Knight Disc as my main go to hunting weapon and a CVA Staghorn for a gun to lend to a friend if they don't have a muzzleloader.

    I didn't list the TC Omega and the Knight Disc because your preference to not spend a lot of dough, those are excellent guns, but they will be in the $350 and up range. Good luck with your selection and I know you're gonna love muzzleloader season. Quiet, snowy hunts at a great time of the year. :)
  14. The Knight looks like me, I have to do some research on that one but it's priced right.

  15. I've used the Ultimate since it was a prototype but I got tired of lugging the brute everywhere I went. On a whim I got a TC Omega with a Zeiss 10X40 and thats my main gun I absolutly love it. You don't have to spend the big buck for accuracy though I've seen many Wal=Mart CVA's shoot better than the $2000 ultimate.

    Ill take you up on that challenge bring it on! and bring your wally world gun! having 2 of them (ultimates) and an encore and omega) ill take that bet. care to pm who you are and ill confirm that you actually have owned one of these guns! ill take your challenge please please challenge me i can use your wally gun for a plant stake after i win it from you

    link to some current groups shot by an ultimate owner at 100yds

    I alo jsu tposted some pics on another board of my 400yd group 5 shot that is just under 5 inches! can your wally workd gun do that!

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