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Archery Tech General modern compound archery discussions about technique, equipment, etc. Do not post hunt reports here they go in the Michigan Whitetail Deer forum.

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  #1  
Old 07-22-2004, 11:04 PM
Pinefarm Pinefarm is offline
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Default Helical help needed

I recently put a new Whisker Biscuit deluxe on my Hoyt. I love the thing and plan on sticking with it. I shot different arrows that I had and most fletching held up fine. But then I tried those new NAP quik spin vanes on my ACC's. And the ACC's will be my "go to" arrow from Aug. 15-Jan 1. The quik spins shot like a dream...for about an hour or two. They then got so scalloped and deformed that there was no bringing them back and my once tight groups fell apart. So, I bought some Arizona Archery Speed Flyte Vanes. Evidently, they're specifically for the WB rest. I'm right handed and want to shoot cock feather up, since the bottom 1/4 of the new WB is the older course material, if that matters at all. Any suggestions on a helical, I'm new to the WB? I was thinking something pretty modest would be best with the WB. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-22-2004, 11:14 PM
Pinefarm Pinefarm is offline
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I just found this on another site posted by 5 Shot. This may answer a lot of my questions...

"EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE WISKER BISQUIT

With all the questions and comments about the wisker bisquit rest I thought I would write this up to help those understand how the rest works, and what steps you need to take to get the most out of it. These are just my opinions based on a full year of using the WB, and things I have discovered about it.
First the Pro’s and Con’s of the rest.
The Pro’s include simple reliable performance. No moving parts, springs, cables, wires or anything to freeze up or fail at the wrong time. Your arrow stays on the rest at all times, ready for action. It is very simple and easy to tune and provides excellent arrow flight, provided you trim it properly and use the right fletching. It is quiet when you draw back, provided you use a slick finish carbon arrow, and the arrow won’t fall off the rest onto your bow riser.
The Con’s of the rest include fletching wear, possible loss of speed, limited number of fletching that work well and hold up to repeated shooting, Also with some bows with lower brace heights you will not be able to shoot 5” fletch without them “poking” through while the arrow is nocked and the bow is un-drawn. It can also be a little noisy when drawing aluminum or rough finish carbon arrows across it.
I have found that in order to get the best performance from the WB you will need to trim the rest some. How much depends on the style of arrow you shoot. For larger diameter aluminums I like to trim both the front and back “flat”. You can go to the Carolina archery products website and see pictures and an explanation of how to trim the rest. For ICS type carbons I have found that you can really only trim one side, any more and you won’t have enough support for the arrow and it can fall between the bristles. For the “skinny’ style carbons I have found that you can only get away with minor trimming before you run into support problems. The more trimming you can do, the less the bristles will effect arrow flight, and speed loss will also be minimized.
For fletching I have found that 4” seems to work best. Feathers will do well, but the top edge will get “scalloped” over time, and they do become a bit noisy when compared to feathers that have not been shot through the Bisquit. They do provide excellent arrow flight though. For vanes I have found that Arizona speed flyte vanes work the best. Standard Bohoning vanes also work well, and I have heard of people having good luck with the Flex fletch vanes. Soft vanes such as Duravanes and standard Arizona plastifletch just won’t hold up and become wrinkled quickly.
The key is to apply the fletching in a way that it will bond to the shaft and won’t peel off. I have had good luck with both fletchtite cement and the various super glues. When using the “super glues” clean the arrow shaft with a water/baking soda solution. Don’t use Acetone as this will weaken the bond between the glue, and shaft. When using fletchtite you can clean the shaft with acetone or your standard cleaners. Make sure to clean the shaft well, and following the manufactures instructions on how to clean the vane base. Allow plenty of drying time after fletching and use a dab of glue at the front and back of each vane or feather to keep the tip from peeling up. When fletching feathers I like to use the fletching tape. I have found it provides a good bond and works well, but that is a personal choice. I want to thank Cary Pickens at New Archery Products for the tip on cleaning the shafts with the baking soda water solution when using the super glues. It makes very good sense and allows for a strong secure bond.
Once the WB has been trimmed properly and your arrows fletched, it’s time to start tuning. I find that it is well worth the extra money to buy the deluxe version. It has both horizontal and vertical adjustments and makes tuning a lot easier, especially when compared to the original or drop tine versions. You can make one adjustment at a time and not worry about loosing another. The rest tunes the same as any other, just following the Easton tuning guide and your shouldn’t have any problems.
For speed loss I have found that the more trimming the less you will have. The more helical and the larger the fletching, the more speed you will loose. 5” feathers fletched right helical seemed to loose the most speed, while 4” straight fletch vanes lost very little. On average the 5” right helical feathers lost 6 fps, and the 4” feathers and vanes lost 2 to 3 fps compared to a standard prong rest. The 4” straight fletched arrows lost only 1 to 2 fps. Remember though this is after doing the trimming.
The bottom line is that is you like the advantages of the WB, and are willing to change the style and type of fletching on your arrows to match well with the rest, it works great. The speed loss is minimal, but it does happen. Spend the extra money and buy the deluxe version to save yourself some tuning headaches. I also have found that for overall balance aluminum and ICS type carbons work best. The “skinny” carbons do work, but you won’t be able to do as much trimming and the arrow can still sometimes “slip” between the bristles. I have also found that you can shoot the aluminum bisquit with the ICS carbons and still get good accuracy. I do however recommend following the Carolina archery guidelines when choosing the correct size for your arrows. This will give you the best results in the long run.
All and all I think the Wisker Bisquit is an excellent rest for the bowhunter, but to get the most out of it you will have to pay attention to the details of your setup. Choose the right fletching, trim as needed and tune your bow properly. For the 3D or tournament archer I don’t see any advantages to using this rest, and the drawbacks far out weigh any advantage you may find. For the bowhunter, I think the extra trouble is well worth it in the end. If you are considering this rest I suggest going to www.carolinaarcheryprod.com and reading over the site carefully. It should answer many of your questions, and to be honest I find their site to be pretty much right on the money with my personal findings."
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:31 AM
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I’ll tell ya Bob, I had the same problem you are talking about. The first biscuit I put on my bow I took off after about 30 arrows. Finally refletched to straight veins and tried the biscuit again. That was last year. Still shooting the biscuit. Speed is not my thing although if I can achieve it without having a lot of gadgets that cause a hassle while in the woods fine.
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Old 07-23-2004, 08:15 AM
Trushot_Archer Trushot_Archer is offline
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Not sure as far as helical but you may want to try some stiffere vanes for sure. Bohnings Blazer vanes and purty stiff. I know they hold up extremely well to the rigors of the bisquit
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:14 AM
Pinefarm Pinefarm is offline
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Tru-Shot, I think I finally have the right vanes in the Speed Flytes. Everything I've seen on different forums suggests that. I was just wondering about helical and if it made any difference at all. BTW, if someone is shooting a drop away, I think those quik spins have a lot going for them. Just not out of or through a WB.
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:30 AM
Trushot_Archer Trushot_Archer is offline
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I don't think helical will matter at all from the rest standpoint. You will, obviously, not get the most "band" from a hard twist as the biscuit will slow or stop rotation on the way through though. But as far as stabilizing a broadhead, which is why you wrap them anyway, closer shots will benefit the least and past 18-20 or so should be even keel out to whatever sidtance you'll go.
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Old 07-23-2004, 05:23 PM
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My son shoots a very severe helical out of his whisker biscuit, and they fly like darts.

Dan
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Old 07-23-2004, 06:26 PM
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Question Helical

Trushot,

I believe the helical vanes passing through the whisker biscuit would actually spin the arrow faster than any other rest type. The curved vanes aren't going to just slam through the whiskers. They are going to take the path of least resistance as they go through, which is to impart spin on the arrow. Do you have some resource that shows this not to be the case?

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Byron
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Old 07-23-2004, 06:58 PM
Trushot_Archer Trushot_Archer is offline
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Quote:
Do you have some resource that shows this not to be the case?
Nope Not a thing.

Path of least resistance would be straight through though or btw the bristles no? 1/32" or less on the front of the vane as opposed to 1 1/4 " contact from the broadside vane during the spin? Seems like common sense to me?? I didn't read it or hear it....just thinking it through. I could be wrong I guess, never shot a biscuit.
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:31 PM
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Default Another way to look at helicals

Think of it this way: for the entire vane to pass through the same point in the biscuit, the arrow has to spin. This is the same reason that the arrow spins as it passes through the air. The biscuit is a lot more dense, so it will cause it to spin even faster.

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Byron
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:51 PM
Trushot_Archer Trushot_Archer is offline
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Ahhh. I see what your saying now. Makes sense. I stand corrected.
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Old 07-23-2004, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
Think of it this way: for the entire vane to pass through the same point in the biscuit, the arrow has to spin. This is the same reason that the arrow spins as it passes through the air. The biscuit is a lot more dense, so it will cause it to spin even faster.

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Byron
Not necessarly so.
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Old 07-23-2004, 09:21 PM
thornapple thornapple is offline
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Actually as the fletchings pass thru the bisquit the bristles get blown outward as the fletchings pass through. So in effect they dont spin at all until well past the rest. Photos have been taken of feathers as they pass through the WB and being as soft and collapsable as they are they too blow the bristles farther out than you might think. Im not guessing on this but have seen the photos some time back. If I remember right it was @ the Gateway feather corp website.
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:25 PM
Banditto Banditto is offline
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I love my biscuit and have been shooting one for probably 3 years now.

My take on the issue: if you are a money shooter (3d tourney's) then shooting a biscuit is out of the question. You just aren't going to be happy with one. Then again your whole setup will be different. You will be using light arrows, magnifide scope, one of new fangled sights with the range adjustment, etc. Now for a hunter who uses heavy arrows and shoots at game at an average of 20 yards (which is quite honestly the most average shot for a hunter) the biscuit is excellent. I can lay my arrows against each other at 20 yards, that is when my form is good.

Once in a while I get a tick and can't get my shooting together which is what I am going through right now. but when I get my shot back I will be laying 2 out of 3 against each other at 20 yards. Granted I would love to say I can do that at 30 yards, but I don't hunt like that. 99.9% of my shots are at 5-12 yards and I have taken between 30-40 deer in the last 20 years. so I can't complain about the performance of my biscuit
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