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  #1  
Old 02-18-2003, 10:43 PM
Spinner401 is offline
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Default Coyote Dogs & Tresspass Law in Michigan (better read this guys!)

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For any and every coyote hunter in the State of Michigan; you should become aware of some very
important information pertaining to running coyotes with dogs and Michigan trespass law...

Michigan Law states that a person has the absolute right to enter onto the land of another person, without permission, if that person enters the private property for the sole purpose of recovering his/her dog. The Law further states that the person entering the property of another must not be in the act of hunting in any form and, have no firearms in their posession while recoving the dog. Basically: "get your dog and getout!"

Since this law was enacted in 1994*, Coyote hunters have relied upon it as their "get out of jail free card" with scores of angry and irate private landowners while, as many landowners contend that they use this LAW ( at least part of the law) as a ruse, while they are, in fact, coyote hunting to some degree.
Approximately six other States have similar laws on the books that allow for an individual to enter ont private property for the sole purpose of recovering a dog. However, in Michigan, Coyote hunters should read this law in its entirety so that they understand that they, in the great majority of circumstances HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO ENTER ONTO THE LAND OF ANOTHER FOR WHATEVER REASON,RECOVERING A DOG AND/OR OTHERWISE!

The law is quite explicit here..a person may indeed recover their dog on private property
UNLESS that property is "PROTECTED". Within the same law "protected" in the State of Michigan is definedas: "(1) any property that is a farm used for cultivating crops and/or raising animals,(2) fenced and/or,(3)is posted with any no hunting/trespassing" signage that conforms to Michigans minimum signage specifications. Any one or more of these factors FULLY NEGATE the right of an individual to enter onto the property of another, >FOR ANY REASON< unless , as defined by the same Law, that person has VERBAL or WRITTEN permission from the landowner, leaseholder etc. to enter onto the property.

The person(s) violating this Law may be charged under Michigan's Recreational Trespass Act and subject to fines and/or imprisonment. Further, if the person(s)fails to immediately leave said property at the instruction of the landowner, that person(s) may be charged under the Michigan CRIMINAL Trespass Law, that contain more severe fines and inprisonment provisions.

In addition to the above, the landowner has the right to recover significant monetary damages and/or land-use fees under a CIVIL suit, irrespective of the outcome of any Recrational/Criminal trespass proceedings. This action could be brought against the person(s) that pysically enters upon the private property AND any person(s) that conspire to and/or is in complicity with the act of trespass.

Sorry to break the news to you but I think many have known this all along.


*NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT, ACT 451 of 1994, PART 731: RECREATIONAL TRESPASS, SECTION 324.73101 THROUGH AND INCLUDING 324.73111
  #2  
Old 02-19-2003, 08:57 AM
Robert W. McCoy Jr Robert W. McCoy Jr is offline
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Default Boehr Explained this a while back

Maybe if we could get him to look at this he could do it again.
But basically (What I understood) him to say was if you didn't have a firearm with you you were allowed to recover your dog.
Unless you were told by the property owner himself to get out.
In that case a Law Enforcment Officer would have to be envolved.

Believe me I am always open to discuss this and would like to learn as much as I can about this subject.


I have had this happen several times and once it was a very bad
experiance.

My dog's are rabbit dog's but non hunters seem to hate them just as much.

It is inevetable that a hound is gonna cross a property line now and then. I do my best to keep them where they are supposed to be but it does happen.

Any body that has ran dog's with me can tell you my pup's Listen.
But once they are on a rabbit sometimes the rabbit will go where he is not expected to go and there is nothing anybody can do except catch try and catch the dog's and move them.
There is no calling a dog off a track.

I'll pm boehr and ask if he can revisit this subject, and put it in Lamen terms..
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2003, 12:14 PM
Falcon1 Falcon1 is offline
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Default Still not good enough it's still trespass!

I read the above two post. The first post is 100% correct. The second is 100% incorrect!

The bottom line is this..wether you are rabbit hunting, coyote hunting are simply walking your dog down the street, the law says you can recover the dog provided one of three conditions do NOT exist:

1. It is a farm
2. The property is fenced
3. The property is posted with "no trespassing" sign (that conforms to Michigan signage requirements)

If ANY of these three factors DO exist..then you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO GO ONTO THE LAND OF ANOTHER, irrespective of your dog or otherwise.

I know of very few properties that do not meet at least one of these conditions throughtout the State of Michigan and certainly, in Zone 3.

Bottom line; If Rover goes over all you can do is whistle & yell real loud and hope that something bad doesn't happen to your wallet or, to Rover or both before he comes back!
  #4  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:00 PM
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Well, the first post even got me confused, I had to read it and re-read it. Overall though, spinner you did a pretty good job although I don't know where the word "protected" came from. Robert's post gets right down to it using the KISS Method (keep it simple stupid), is good and correct with the exception that it doesn't have to be the owner, just someone with the authority over the property, renter or other etc. Falcon1, sorry but your post is incorrect. Doesn't matter about your listed three conditions, it matters only that you have no firearm and you have not been told that you can not enter. The section of law is:

324.73102 Entering or remaining on property of another; consent; exceptions.

Sec. 73102. (1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon the property of another person, other than farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property, to engage in any recreational activity or trapping on that property without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, if either of the following circumstances exists:
(a) The property is fenced or enclosed and is maintained in such a manner as to exclude intruders.
(b) The property is posted in a conspicuous manner against entry. The minimum letter height on the posting signs shall be 1 inch. Each posting sign shall be not less than 50 square inches, and the signs shall be spaced to enable a person to observe not less than 1 sign at any point of entry upon the property.
(2) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property for any recreational activity or trapping without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, whether or not the farm property or wooded area connected to farm property is fenced, enclosed, or posted.
(3) On fenced or posted property or farm property, a fisherman wading or floating a navigable public stream may, without written or oral consent, enter upon property within the clearly defined banks of the stream or, without damaging farm products, walk a route as closely proximate to the clearly defined bank as possible when necessary to avoid a natural or artificial hazard or obstruction, including, but not limited to, a dam, deep hole, or a fence or other exercise of ownership by the riparian owner.
(4) A person other than a person possessing a firearm may, unless previously prohibited in writing or orally by the property owner or his or her lessee or agent, enter on foot upon the property of another person for the sole purpose of retrieving a hunting dog. The person shall not remain on the property beyond the reasonable time necessary to retrieve the dog. In an action under section 73109 or 73110, the burden of showing that the property owner or his or her lessee or agent previously prohibited entry under this subsection is on the plaintiff or prosecuting attorney, respectively.
(5) Consent to enter or remain upon the property of another person pursuant to this section may be given orally or in writing. The consent may establish conditions for entering or remaining upon that property. Unless prohibited in the written consent, a written consent may be amended or revoked orally. If the owner or his or her lessee or agent requires all persons entering or remaining upon the property to have written consent, the presence of the person on the property without written consent is prima facie evidence of unlawful entry.
  #5  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:25 PM
Robert W. McCoy Jr Robert W. McCoy Jr is offline
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Thumbs Up Thanks again Boehr

As I'm sure you have explained this a ton of times but it is something worth revisting now and then.

It helps alot to have someone like you to ask for guidience.

Falcon,
First welcome to the site.
Second always remember that Rover isn't just a dog to some people.

Some times he is a Big part of some ones family.
Also for the most part, hound hunters are just trying to enjoy an age old sport and have some good times in the field. they ar not out to cause problems.

Hounds do however sometimes cross boundries.

I have thousands of dollers wrapped up in my dog's
and can assure you I do the very best I can to
keep them with me.
Also I respect every body I encounter while running dog's and I never have nor will cause harms to anyone's property while retreving a hound.
  #6  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:40 PM
Falcon1 Falcon1 is offline
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Default Well, if you don't believe me then...

take it right from the horse's mouth...

The following is a cut in paste directly from the Michigan "Q&A" website...


What are the rules for hunting coyotes on private land in Zone 3? Can a person turn their dogs loose and go where they will or do you have to have landowner permission? Do you have to have dogs on a lash on private land when hunting coyotes or can you just turn dogs free and let them run coyote wherever they want to run? What are the landowner’s rights if the property owner does not want coyote hunters or their dogs running on their land? What is the largest firearm that can be used in Zone 3 to hunt coyotes? Can a high powered rifle be used like the .22-250, .243 or .222 caliber?


Answer
At 12/18/2002 06:53 AM we wrote -

Coyote may be taken on private property year around anywhere in the state (including Zone 3) by the property owner and their guests if
coyotes are doing or about to do damage. For DAYTIME coyote hunting there are no caliber limitations in the state (including Zone 3) and
any caliber, including the .22-250, .243 and .222 caliber, may be used except during the period of November 10 through November 30 when certain firearm restrictions apply.

If property is protected under the Recreational Trespass Law, it is unlawful to enter that property without the landowner’s consent. Hunting
dogs do not need to be leashed and a person without a firearm may enter onto protected lands to retrieve a hunting dog, however, dog owners needs to be aware that once prohibited from entering a person’s land, they no longer have the ability to legally enter the property to retrieve a dog. If a property owner does not want dogs or hunters on his or her property, they first need to protect the land under recreational trespass law (post or fence or be farm property). Once protected, the property owner then has the right to prohibit anyone from entering the property for any reason. Irrespective of any other facts or factors, anyone who refuses to leave any lands upon the request of the property owner is in violation of the general criminal trespass law.


DUH!
  #7  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:54 PM
Falcon1 Falcon1 is offline
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Default For the record...

I am not challenging the correctness or ethics of hunting coyotes with dogs, their dollar value and/ or emotional attachent to the animal bt the owner/family.

Rather, what I AM saying is that the LAW IS THE LAW. BOTTOM LINE If there is a SIGN, or a FENCE or if it is a FARM,the owner (or his/her agenct/lessee) has de-facto informed you IN ADVANCE that you cannot go onto to the private property to go get the dog. Period!

There are a total of 11 subsections to this particular Law. Regrettably(for some) all of them apply..not just the part(s) that works for you.

Spinner is 100% on the mark!
  #8  
Old 02-19-2003, 01:56 PM
Robert W. McCoy Jr Robert W. McCoy Jr is offline
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Big Smile WOW Falcon

You seem to be upset about something.
No one hear is trying to PI$$ you off.
I simply asked Boehr to give his cooments on this since he is pretty well versed in the Laws I will go with the Satement he has made.

Trouble with property owners is nothing new to me.
Atleast twice a year I have to deal with property owners because my dog ran across a corner of there property or they hear my dog's close to there property and start yelling.

One of my buddies even had dog's shot while hunting.

I have had a dog stolen and had to get the Police envolved to get it back.

So believe me I am no stranger to the laws of dog recovery.

What Boehr posted is the Law.

I think it would be wise to heed to his advice..


Good running

And remeber those are not just dog's to some people
  #9  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:02 PM
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Craig M Craig M is offline
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Hey Falcon1,

First off welcome to the site. I sure you will meet a bunch of people here who share your passion for the outdoors.

Second, can you fill out your profile so everyone can know a little more about you.

Third, Boher is one of our moderators and he just happens to be a CO in the MI DNR and does a really good job of keeping us informed and running the right line. He may not be right all the time, but he's purty darn near dead on mark every time.

Can you please post the link to Michigan "Q&A" website that you referenced.

Thanks,

Craig M
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Old 02-19-2003, 02:05 PM
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That's not saying anything different than I posted.

Easy does it now. If you would like to converse more about the law feel free to call me at the District Office 269-685-6851. You can see what I do if you look at my profile. District Law Supervisor in Plainwell

Lt. Ray Boehringer
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:29 PM
Falcon1 Falcon1 is offline
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Default One thing befeore I get off break.....

the Q & A that I referred to is #801 on the DNR website.

OK..all that said AM I correct?? Answer:YES!

And, am I annoyed. Only when people trespass (and break the law).
  #12  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:38 PM
Robert W. McCoy Jr Robert W. McCoy Jr is offline
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Default Falcon

I too own land and I understand that tresspassing is not something that people are fond of.

But IF you are a Hunter then you must understand that it does happen when dog's are on the chase sometimes.

If you simply ask them to leave the property as soon as they can I'm sure they will.

Most people that run dog's are very responsible people.

Give them a chance and they will be gone as if they were never there....

I guess I never really understand why people some people get so upset over a dog chase??
  #13  
Old 02-19-2003, 02:56 PM
Falcon1 Falcon1 is offline
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Default Here's the issue...

the excuse that "well, dogs will be dogs" is limp

I AM a hunter but I do not hunt coyotes. I hunt deer.

And, when Rover comes over (there I said it) Mr. and Ms. deer go away for the day! But, you had your fun for the day. Oh my!
  #14  
Old 02-19-2003, 03:00 PM
Jimbos Jimbos is offline
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Falcon, your making your point. Maybe a scooch less sarcasm, and people would agree with you.....Eh?


You can't lump every dog runner into one group.
  #15  
Old 02-19-2003, 03:02 PM
Robert W. McCoy Jr Robert W. McCoy Jr is offline
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Default Ok

I see.

Well if you ever hit a deer and it run's off your land on to mine, your more than welcome to come get it off my land even if it will mess my hunting up for a day

Talk to you later
Rob
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