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Crossbows Discussions about the use of Crossbows in Michigan.

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  #1  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:36 PM
Rancid Crabtree is offline
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Crossbow that requires a Federal Firearms Lic. - Crossbows

I have heard the the TAC 15 Tactical Assault crossbow requires a FFL form be filled out to own. I know these machines have been called crossguns but I think PSE is doing the pro-traditional bowhunter (hand drawn at the time of the shot) a favor by allowing this sort of device to go to market. They are helping us by showing that manufacturers are only scratching the surface of technology and power. The ad reads

"Ergonomically matched to AR-15 Firearms"

"converts any AR-15 quickly and easily from an AR-15 to a crossbow?

"capable of unprecedented accuracy"

This thing might be the best aid to stop crossbows from entering some states that anyone can think of. The links to a gun are perfectly detailed here. I can see a very good defense of why these machines have no place in an archery season especially with the need for a FFL.
Many folks neglect to see the future and what technology hold in as little as 10 years down the road. Allowing them in an archery season now is also allowing their future big (and much more powerful) brother into the archery season down the road.

I can think of a few states bowhunting orgs that will certainly get a lot of mileage from this release. MBH and WBH not excluded.
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  #2  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree View Post

I have heard the the TAC 15 Tactical Assault crossbow requires a FFL form be filled out to own.
No form is required to own an AR-15 so why would one be needed to own this bow? An FFL holder involved in the transfer or sale has to fill out the appropriate BATF paperwork when transferring long guns, which the lower receiver of an AR-15 falls under and there is a required background check but there is no requirement related to ownership. Your next door neighbor could sell you an AR-15 lower to use with this crossbow tomorrow and there would be no requirement that you fill out any paperwork or submit anything to the government. The lower unit is sold separately from the crossbow part so there would be no paperwork required to buy the crossbow mechanism. Through that scenario, a hunter could legally obtain and combine the parts to this crossbow without registering or filing any paperwork what-so-ever.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:12 PM
NoWake NoWake is offline
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You 'heard' that it takes an FFL form to be filled out to own one of those huh? Care to share where you heard that? LOL

Well, I 'heard' they won't even be available to consumers because they can't keep up with their military orders. Seems the government 'heard' the capabilities of his weapon and are planning to replace all but a few M-16s. They probably heard all this right here on MS, or maybe it was at the secret BBQ.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Munsterlndr View Post
No form is required to own an AR-15 so why would one be needed to own this bow? An FFL holder involved in the transfer or sale has to fill out the appropriate BATF paperwork when transferring long guns, which the lower receiver of an AR-15 falls under and there is a required background check but there is no requirement related to ownership. Your next door neighbor could sell you an AR-15 lower to use with this crossbow tomorrow and there would be no requirement that you fill out any paperwork or submit anything to the government. The lower unit is sold separately from the crossbow part so there would be no paperwork required to buy the crossbow mechanism. Through that scenario, a hunter could legally obtain and combine the parts to this crossbow without registering or filing any paperwork what-so-ever.

Other than a private party................if I were to buy this rig just the way it's shown from a licenced firearm dealer, would I need to go thru all the paperwork to buy the cb that I would have to fill out to buy a gun ?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:18 AM
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FFL or not, that crossbow looks sweet, where can I buy one? I think it is great that they are innovating and bringing new things to market. I want to see progress and advances in weapons capability.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:19 AM
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You can't buy the rig just as it's shown, the crossbow assembly is sold separately from the lower unit. If you buy the lower unit through an FFL dealer, he has to complete the required BATF form in order to legally complete the transfer. Once you have the lower unit you can buy the crossbow assembly without having to fill out any paperwork. Saying that an FFL form is needed to buy this crossbow is like saying that an FFL is needed to buy the mil-dot scope that you mount on a rifle, which is not the case. If I can buy the scope or the crossbow through the mail and have it shipped directly to my house, then you can be sure that an FFL transfer is not required. Nobody is disputing that you need to fill out BATF paperwork to transfer an AR-15 lower unit, unless you purchase it locally from a private party. If you already own an AR-15 then you can just buy the crossbow assembly and no paperwork is required in that scenario, either. His description that you need to fill out paperwork to "own" the pictured weapon is not accurate.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:36 AM
Rancid Crabtree Rancid Crabtree is offline
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I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree View Post
I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.
you mean more PROAGANDA because you have ZERO FACTS
i can hear it right now, the michigan delta crossbow forces will wipe out the deer herd in one year with this weapon. just look at it its a machinegun arrow thrower.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:52 AM
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I really wouldn't worry about too many hunters running out and buying those. A decent ar lower is 350 to 400 dollars and that crossbow assembly looks to be every bit of 2000 dollars. I know alot of rifle hunters and I can assure you that none of us wants to hunt in your archery season, and we sure don't want to spend 2 grand or more to do it if we did. Sure there will be some rifle hunter crossovers, but most of your crossbow hunters are going to come from your own ranks. The rest will be the ones that are sidelined now by the current limiting regulations and want to archery hunt. I can't see any of those groups spending in significant numbers the kind of money it would take to buy that type of crossbow. So pushing these super crossbows as the reason against allowing crossbows in archery season is kind of pointless.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:52 AM
NoWake NoWake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree View Post
I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.
I sadly have to agree with you here. The direction they are going isn't doing themselves any favors as far as expanding the use of crossbows.
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:55 AM
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Look it has a Whisker Biscuit on the end That settles it, you cannot use a WB on a gun
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsterlndr View Post
You can't buy the rig just as it's shown, the crossbow assembly is sold separately from the lower unit. If you buy the lower unit through an FFL dealer, he has to complete the required BATF form in order to legally complete the transfer. Once you have the lower unit you can buy the crossbow assembly without having to fill out any paperwork. Saying that an FFL form is needed to buy this crossbow is like saying that an FFL is needed to buy the mil-dot scope that you mount on a rifle, which is not the case. If I can buy the scope or the crossbow through the mail and have it shipped directly to my house, then you can be sure that an FFL transfer is not required. Nobody is disputing that you need to fill out BATF paperwork to transfer an AR-15 lower unit, unless you purchase it locally from a private party. If you already own an AR-15 then you can just buy the crossbow assembly and no paperwork is required in that scenario, either. His description that you need to fill out paperwork to "own" the pictured weapon is not accurate.

That's for clarifying that.

I wonder why they aren't trying to market the rig as is ?
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:05 AM
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Neat crossbow. I am sure if and when crossbows are allowed for all to use, there will be restrictions on these super bow crossbows that will be forthcoming. The day of the 100 mile range, guided missile crossbow, will not be allowed like some want to claim.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Rancid Crabtree Rancid Crabtree is offline
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It's also the look into the future and what it holds that will do us traditional bowhunters the favor. That gun-bow will certainly go a long way to wake up folks to what they are considering allowing into the bow season. As freakish as that thing is, it's nothing compared to what they will be bringing to market 20 years from now. That realization brought to life by PSE is worth it's weight in gold to those of us upholding the traditional archery season. It won't matter if they add a microwave oven to a vertical bow, so long as it has to be drawn back at the time of the shot and held by man power throughout the entire cycle. Since the ATA show, this machine has been doing us a great service and for that I am grateful.

It's also interesting that even pro crossbow crowd is already backing away and saying that restrictions to that sort of thing are needed. Kind of pokes a big ole hole in the full inclusion argument or at least shows that little thought beyond the here and now has taken place.
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Last edited by Rancid Crabtree; 01-16-2009 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
Look it has a Whisker Biscuit on the end That settles it, you cannot use a WB on a gun
Well, there you go. Actually, calling anything a gun when it shoots an arrow using a string is kind of silly. If there isn't some type of propellent involved, it's not a gun. And how come no one is talking about the speed that this crossbow flings an arrow? Other than the looks, it operates like any other crossbow. We don't really want to head down the "how it looks" slippery slope, do we? Isn't that tactic being used against our firearms now?
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