Michigan Sportsman Forum banner

my new pup and a good trainer!!

1K views 11 replies 8 participants last post by  deezel 
#1 ·
Well i put a deposit on my newest hunting buddy! A soon to be born male black lab out of Riverswild Retreivers - the sire is Kingseeds Ely and the dam is Riverswild ZZ Top. Quite a combo there. So they are pointing lab champions and waterfowl wonders. I am excited as can be,but I am looking for a trainer or someone who i can pay to work with me. I can train the obedience part of it but i don't have a clue as far as training him for blind and boat hunting. I may have him trained at Riverswild for intro to birds and obedience but they don't train for blind and boat hunting. I would feel comfortable leaving him with Cathy the owner of Riverswild. I have had numerous conversations with her and you can tell she is top notch and not a BS talker!! I am willing to listen to other hunters thoughts! Thanks Roger
 
#2 ·
Congrats on your upcoming pup!

Define your goals/needs/wants , then research to determine what trainer is best suited to train your dog in order to hopefully meet what you defined i.e. what is their professional ability relative to your goals/needs/wants, what have they done for others, their location relative to you (if that's important), references, etc

There are many trainers that can get a dog to pick up ducks (do the basics). If you want upper level training (multiple marks, blinds, etc) realize the the early "foundation" work that a trainer puts into your pup will become VERY important. Most pro trainers are going to want to go through all the obedience stuff themselves prior to doing much else anyway so I wouldn't get caught up on being able to accomplish that with your pup. Basics like what is acceptable and what is NOT acceptable is a great start that ALL owners can focus on. Crate training is another but if you have made the decision to have your pup "professionally" trained, let the pro handle the grunt of the training, works well for all involved IMO

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions
 
#3 ·
Congrats. You got some good stuff in there. I got my first pointing lab pup in the fall, and I'm in the same boat in regards to not knowing much about training. I've learned a bit about upland training, but I really don't know much about waterfowl retriever training. The most I've done is train him to retrieve a bumper, which was really easy, and should be really easy for you with a dog like that. It'll be good to just get his interest in retrieving at a young age. The first puppy bumper I threw out for Jax when he was only 8 weeks old he ran and grabbed and brought right back to me (dragging it by the string). And he did it from there on (although when he was really young, he'd lose interest after 5 mins or so). They're just wired for it, it's pretty amazing.

Do you plan on training him for upland? I've received pretty consistent advice that upland training should be done before waterfowl retrieving training. As such, Jax will get started with a professional on upland in the spring at around 8 months. I'll do my best with retriever training over the summer, and then will send him back for formal retriever training this coming fall or the following fall. I joined the Central Mich HRC group and I'm hoping to learn by watching those guys.

I've never trained a hunting dog on my own, but I've been doing my best to do as much on my own as possible before he goes to the trainer in the spring. It's a lot of fun. I read a lot online and talk to as many trainers a I can, but I've also found Richard Wolters book helpful. I'm obviously doing obedience training myself, which is easy, but I also took the liberty to do the intro to birds thing myself by purchasing a few chukars when he was about 3 months old (kept them in my garage in a bunny hutch). You can let the dog out on the birds to just spark his interest in them and bring out his prey drive and build confidence over the birds. I think most trainers will appreciate a dog that comes to them already interested in birds. Once you know he's got that interest (and you'll know) I learned it's best to just stop with letting him play with the birds, because the next step should be training that teaches the dog that birds fly away if he gets too close to them (not that he can corned them in a garage or fenced in yard and just pick them up in his mouth... that can cause problems). That's where I've left off--I ceased the bird play as soon as Jax started finding them nearly instantly (I hide them in my garage, which is large) and just picked them up in his mouth and looked at me. My next step is to take him out to find a few birds, bump them, and learn that they fly away and he'll never get them. Then onto the woah training. I'm hoping to just get him started on these things before he goes away in the spring just so he has a foundation to work off of, keeping in mind I have to be very careful because there are plenty of things I can do that would set him back. I'd do all the training on my own if I had the time, proximity to places with birds and cover, but I just don't.

Best of luck. It's a blast!
 
#4 ·
I would "Strongly" suggest that both of you work on ducks FIRST ! Water retrieves, taking a line, blind retrieves, the whole works. Then ! Work on the upland portion.
In my experience what I found was if trained on upland first ? The dog expects to get out and run, start hunting etc. And there's a world of difference between dry feathers and wet. Once learned to retrieve wet feathers , dry will come natural. I had "Very Big " issues the other way around.

And also instead of running around hunting, having to sit still and be quiet was another. Train as you wish, I just thought I'd throw in my experience.
 
#5 ·
I would "Strongly" suggest that both of you work on ducks FIRST ! Water retrieves, taking a line, blind retrieves, the whole works. Then ! Work on the upland portion.
In my experience what I found was if trained on upland first ? The dog expects to get out and run, start hunting etc. And there's a world of difference between dry feathers and wet. Once learned to retrieve wet feathers , dry will come natural. I had "Very Big " issues the other way around.

And also instead of running around hunting, having to sit still and be quiet was another. Train as you wish, I just thought I'd throw in my experience.
I agree with this..Great advice.
 
#9 ·
And I would tell you that avid upland hunters that use a lab for waterfowl as well would let the dog develop upland skills first as dogs lose some of their independence with high pressure, structured training such as that required to have a finished waterdog. If you are looking for the dog to find a dead grouse you just shot it doesn't really matter but you will loose range in the independent search for live birds if you go the other way. Have the dog force fetched at 6 months and you'll have a functional dog the first year. Send back for finish work after that first season and you'll have a full working partner that will do it all.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Very cool, I'm getting one of the females out of that litter and pretty much doing the same research as you right now
I think you'll both be happy with that breeding. I'd consider it, but I want to live to see the next day when my wife found out about another puppy.

In no particular order some names to look at
Tim Doane/ Kingseed kennel
Dale Swiderski/ Hunters Rose Kennel
Carolyn Elam/ down in Ohio
Abby Eash/ not sure if she still has a kennel because she started working with Tera Laznak(sp?) and I don't know where they're at right now. Actually, I think Slammer has Tera's link above.

I know at least two of the people above are down south for winter training so you'll have to be patient about talking to them.

Have fun and good luck!

Oh yeah! Look at joining a local UKC Hunting Retriever Club and if you want to go the pointing lab route look into the APLA (Deezel might just be someone to talk to about that)
 
#11 · (Edited)
Congrats on your upcoming pup!

Define your goals/needs/wants , then research to determine what trainer is best suited to train your dog in order to hopefully meet what you defined i.e. what is their professional ability relative to your goals/needs/wants, what have they done for others, their location relative to you (if that's important), references, etc

There are many trainers that can get a dog to pick up ducks (do the basics). If you want upper level training (multiple marks, blinds, etc) realize the the early "foundation" work that a trainer puts into your pup will become VERY important. Most pro trainers are going to want to go through all the obedience stuff themselves prior to doing much else anyway so I wouldn't get caught up on being able to accomplish that with your pup. Basics like what is acceptable and what is NOT acceptable is a great start that ALL owners can focus on. Crate training is another but if you have made the decision to have your pup "professionally" trained, let the pro handle the grunt of the training, works well for all involved IMO

Good luck, let me know if you have any questions
Deezel is spot on.

And I would tell you that avid upland hunters that use a lab for waterfowl as well would let the dog develop upland skills first as dogs lose some of their independence with high pressure, structured training such as that required to have a finished waterdog. If you are looking for the dog to find a dead grouse you just shot it doesn't really matter but you will loose range in the independent search for live birds if you go the other way. Have the dog force fetched at 6 months and you'll have a functional dog the first year. Send back for finish work after that first season and you'll have a full working partner that will do it all.
I agree. If you're going to do a lot of upland I've been told by people who know this is the route to go. You can always put the control on them. I do however think that it will take longer for the higher end retriever stuff if you do the upland stuff first. Like Deezel said; decide what you want. A lab can do it all with patience and training.
 
#12 ·
And I would tell you that avid upland hunters that use a lab for waterfowl as well would let the dog develop upland skills first as dogs lose some of their independence with high pressure, structured training such as that required to have a finished waterdog. If you are looking for the dog to find a dead grouse you just shot it doesn't really matter but you will loose range in the independent search for live birds if you go the other way. Have the dog force fetched at 6 months and you'll have a functional dog the first year. Send back for finish work after that first season and you'll have a full working partner that will do it all.
:yeahthat:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top