Michigan Sportsman Forum banner

Crossbow that requires a Federal Firearms Lic.

24K views 75 replies 22 participants last post by  TOW 
#1 ·


I have heard the the TAC 15 Tactical Assault crossbow requires a FFL form be filled out to own. I know these machines have been called crossguns but I think PSE is doing the pro-traditional bowhunter (hand drawn at the time of the shot) a favor by allowing this sort of device to go to market. They are helping us by showing that manufacturers are only scratching the surface of technology and power. The ad reads

"Ergonomically matched to AR-15 Firearms"

"converts any AR-15 quickly and easily from an AR-15 to a crossbow?

"capable of unprecedented accuracy"

This thing might be the best aid to stop crossbows from entering some states that anyone can think of. The links to a gun are perfectly detailed here. I can see a very good defense of why these machines have no place in an archery season especially with the need for a FFL.
Many folks neglect to see the future and what technology hold in as little as 10 years down the road. Allowing them in an archery season now is also allowing their future big (and much more powerful) brother into the archery season down the road.

I can think of a few states bowhunting orgs that will certainly get a lot of mileage from this release. MBH and WBH not excluded.
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
I have heard the the TAC 15 Tactical Assault crossbow requires a FFL form be filled out to own.
No form is required to own an AR-15 so why would one be needed to own this bow? An FFL holder involved in the transfer or sale has to fill out the appropriate BATF paperwork when transferring long guns, which the lower receiver of an AR-15 falls under and there is a required background check but there is no requirement related to ownership. Your next door neighbor could sell you an AR-15 lower to use with this crossbow tomorrow and there would be no requirement that you fill out any paperwork or submit anything to the government. The lower unit is sold separately from the crossbow part so there would be no paperwork required to buy the crossbow mechanism. Through that scenario, a hunter could legally obtain and combine the parts to this crossbow without registering or filing any paperwork what-so-ever. ;)
 
#3 ·
You 'heard' that it takes an FFL form to be filled out to own one of those huh? Care to share where you heard that? LOL

Well, I 'heard' they won't even be available to consumers because they can't keep up with their military orders. Seems the government 'heard' the capabilities of his weapon and are planning to replace all but a few M-16s. They probably heard all this right here on MS, or maybe it was at the secret BBQ. :lol:
 
#4 ·
No form is required to own an AR-15 so why would one be needed to own this bow? An FFL holder involved in the transfer or sale has to fill out the appropriate BATF paperwork when transferring long guns, which the lower receiver of an AR-15 falls under and there is a required background check but there is no requirement related to ownership. Your next door neighbor could sell you an AR-15 lower to use with this crossbow tomorrow and there would be no requirement that you fill out any paperwork or submit anything to the government. The lower unit is sold separately from the crossbow part so there would be no paperwork required to buy the crossbow mechanism. Through that scenario, a hunter could legally obtain and combine the parts to this crossbow without registering or filing any paperwork what-so-ever. ;)

Other than a private party................if I were to buy this rig just the way it's shown from a licenced firearm dealer, would I need to go thru all the paperwork to buy the cb that I would have to fill out to buy a gun ?
 
#6 ·
You can't buy the rig just as it's shown, the crossbow assembly is sold separately from the lower unit. If you buy the lower unit through an FFL dealer, he has to complete the required BATF form in order to legally complete the transfer. Once you have the lower unit you can buy the crossbow assembly without having to fill out any paperwork. Saying that an FFL form is needed to buy this crossbow is like saying that an FFL is needed to buy the mil-dot scope that you mount on a rifle, which is not the case. If I can buy the scope or the crossbow through the mail and have it shipped directly to my house, then you can be sure that an FFL transfer is not required. Nobody is disputing that you need to fill out BATF paperwork to transfer an AR-15 lower unit, unless you purchase it locally from a private party. If you already own an AR-15 then you can just buy the crossbow assembly and no paperwork is required in that scenario, either. His description that you need to fill out paperwork to "own" the pictured weapon is not accurate.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.:D:D
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.:D:D
you mean more PROAGANDA because you have ZERO FACTS :lol:
i can hear it right now, the michigan delta crossbow forces will wipe out the deer herd in one year with this weapon. just look at it its a machinegun arrow thrower. :lol:
 
#9 ·
I really wouldn't worry about too many hunters running out and buying those. A decent ar lower is 350 to 400 dollars and that crossbow assembly looks to be every bit of 2000 dollars. I know alot of rifle hunters and I can assure you that none of us wants to hunt in your archery season, and we sure don't want to spend 2 grand or more to do it if we did. Sure there will be some rifle hunter crossovers, but most of your crossbow hunters are going to come from your own ranks. The rest will be the ones that are sidelined now by the current limiting regulations and want to archery hunt. I can't see any of those groups spending in significant numbers the kind of money it would take to buy that type of crossbow. So pushing these super crossbows as the reason against allowing crossbows in archery season is kind of pointless.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
I guess the key take-away is the favor the PSE has done by even further linking the crossbow with a gun. Thanks to them for that. The blurring of those lines is very timely and allows those working to maintain traditional archery seasons to have another arrow in their quiver so-to-speak.:D:D
I sadly have to agree with you here. The direction they are going isn't doing themselves any favors as far as expanding the use of crossbows.
 
#12 ·
You can't buy the rig just as it's shown, the crossbow assembly is sold separately from the lower unit. If you buy the lower unit through an FFL dealer, he has to complete the required BATF form in order to legally complete the transfer. Once you have the lower unit you can buy the crossbow assembly without having to fill out any paperwork. Saying that an FFL form is needed to buy this crossbow is like saying that an FFL is needed to buy the mil-dot scope that you mount on a rifle, which is not the case. If I can buy the scope or the crossbow through the mail and have it shipped directly to my house, then you can be sure that an FFL transfer is not required. Nobody is disputing that you need to fill out BATF paperwork to transfer an AR-15 lower unit, unless you purchase it locally from a private party. If you already own an AR-15 then you can just buy the crossbow assembly and no paperwork is required in that scenario, either. His description that you need to fill out paperwork to "own" the pictured weapon is not accurate.

That's for clarifying that. :)

I wonder why they aren't trying to market the rig as is ?
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
It's also the look into the future and what it holds that will do us traditional bowhunters the favor. That gun-bow will certainly go a long way to wake up folks to what they are considering allowing into the bow season. As freakish as that thing is, it's nothing compared to what they will be bringing to market 20 years from now. That realization brought to life by PSE is worth it's weight in gold to those of us upholding the traditional archery season. It won't matter if they add a microwave oven to a vertical bow, so long as it has to be drawn back at the time of the shot and held by man power throughout the entire cycle. Since the ATA show, this machine has been doing us a great service and for that I am grateful. :lol::lol::lol:

It's also interesting that even pro crossbow crowd is already backing away and saying that restrictions to that sort of thing are needed. Kind of pokes a big ole hole in the full inclusion argument or at least shows that little thought beyond the here and now has taken place.:lol::lol:
 
#15 ·
Look it has a Whisker Biscuit on the end:lol: That settles it, you cannot use a WB on a gun:lol:
Well, there you go. Actually, calling anything a gun when it shoots an arrow using a string is kind of silly. If there isn't some type of propellent involved, it's not a gun. And how come no one is talking about the speed that this crossbow flings an arrow? Other than the looks, it operates like any other crossbow. We don't really want to head down the "how it looks" slippery slope, do we? Isn't that tactic being used against our firearms now?
 
#16 ·
That's for clarifying that. :)

I wonder why they aren't trying to market the rig as is ?
There is a whole lot of hassle and liability being an FFL holder and I doubt many archery dealers would see it as being worth the hassle and the frequent rectal exams delivered by the BATF for the potential of selling a limited number of these rigs. Big box stores who already have an FFL might consider it but again there is going to be an extremely limited market for these things given the price point. I'd say the most likely candidate would be someone who already has an AR-15 and would only be interested in purchasing the crossbow assembly as an add on and as mentioned, no FFL is required to sell just the bow part.
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
It's also the look into the future and what it holds that will do us traditional bowhunters the favor. That gun-bow will certainly go a long way to wake up folks to what they are considering allowing into the bow season. As freakish as that thing is, it's nothing compared to what they will be bringing to market 20 years from now. That realization brought to life by PSE is worth it's weight in gold to those of us upholding the traditional archery season. It won't matter if they add a microwave oven to a vertical bow, so long as it has to be drawn back at the time of the shot and held by man power throughout the entire cycle. Since the ATA show, this machine has been doing us a great service and for that I am grateful. :lol::lol::lol:

It's also interesting that even pro crossbow crowd is already backing away and saying that restrictions to that sort of thing are needed. Kind of pokes a big ole hole in the full inclusion argument or at least shows that little thought beyond the here and now has taken place.:lol::lol:
Actually knowing that regulations can control the effective range is reality. Regulation kind of throws the monkey wrench in the ballistic bazooka crossbow that will be forthcoming. How is dealing in reality, using little thought?
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Actually knowing that regulations can control the effective range is reality. Regulation kind of throws the monkey wrench in the ballistic bazooka crossbow that will be forthcoming. How is dealing in reality, using little thought?

Nice try but the we want it all and we want it now crowd (pro-inclusion) will soon say to heck with all that because.............. well................ we want it all and we want it now. As far as the restriction aspect. I suggest that MI already has restrictions in regards to crossbows and that they be left as is. You the one that wants to do away with restrictions. I suspect that you don't really want the restrictions you just suggested but want to sound good.:lol::lol::lol:




It sounds like your suggesting that crossbow makers with stop trying to make advances for fear of making machines that will be "Too good" and thus will be restricted...... I suggest that they are there already.


I suspect that this thread will be locked shortly since it works in the favor of the pro-traditional Bowhunting side of the issue and is doing a disservice to the crossbows for everybody crowd.:dizzy::dizzy:

 
#20 ·
I am for the right of anyone that wants to use a crossbow to be able to. As far as management that burden will put on our herd, is up to scientific management and our DNR. Kind of like rifles. We haven't banned them in the whole state because the shotgun zone was deemed necessary. So with the crossbow. But keep telling everyone that the bazooka crossbow is coming and the deer herd will be wiped out. Those that have used the thought process and looked at all the evidence including other states that have implemented a crossbow season know otherwise. I would think that even the worse case scenerio you anti's want to paint came true, the DNR could manage to counter it. Even if it meant a different season or a OBR. But there is no reason for crossbows not to be allowed, unless of course selfishness is the deciding factor.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
Like most folks working to maintain traditional bow seasons, we monitor the crossbow nation web site and forum. Even over there they are talking about the PSE machine causing damage to "the cause" :lol:
DAMAGE WHAT DAMAGE? just because some clowns come up with some super duper sci-fi crossbow and make it functional, you really think that the legislature of michigan is going to ban crossbow inclusion? why don't you bring that picture to the senate committee hearing the bill and insult their intelligence with that line of thought. that would be the last nail in the coffin for the propaganda agenda of the factlesss anti crossbow coalition.:lol: talk about pulling at straws. whats next a picture of a baby in a camo diaper holding that tac15 crossbow in a treestand:lol::lol:
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Seems that a nerve has been touched. Relax. I'm sure everything will be fine with your push to get these things and their superer duperer, Hi techier big brothers in every bodies hand because once the crossbow for everybody law passes, there is no turning back..................... Unless you want to restrict "Certain" types of "Bows" but what wouldn't be "Full" inclusion. Having both ways can be hard on a guy.:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top