Tall Grass

[woodedareas]

This week end I took my dog and went to a hunting preserve that I have previously been to with my dog. He is a 15 month old english setter that has been doing great even on a recent gouse hunt. He has a great nose and rearely misses anything. We were assigned to an area that had extremely high grass that was not only tough for the dog but also for me ( I am older). My dog could not quarter through the area as he was accoustomed to and for the first time did not find a bird even though there was supposedly 10 birds out there. He did locate 4 previous kills and the remaining feathers. He has a great nose and I thought that the lack of his ability to find the birds was either due to the extremely tall plant material or perhaps the birds were never place out there or placed too early and disappeared. There have been occassions when he has hunted in taller grasses but did locate and point, however, not this time. I would appreciate your thoughts.

[Birdhuntr1]

Hunting tall grass, as in head high on person, can be a nightmare. The times I have done so have been difficult for all the dogs I've been behind. This is just my opinion. I think the heigth of the grass doesn't allow for the wind to get down to the birds and form a scent cone that the dogs are able to work. The birds tend to hunker down and let the world pass them by. If a dog doesn't happen to pass very near, they don't even register that a bird is there. Having to hunt tall grass happens sometimes, either on preserves or tests. Hunting tall weeds is different because they tend to have heads but much less growth underneath that allows for the wind to move the scent. My thoughts only.

[francismcgee]

What kinds of birds were set? From limited knowledge, I've found that it can make a big difference in how the dog performs.

For example, my pup is young (12 months) and did really well this season on grouse. She has a great nose and is very cautious (hence her success on grouse, IMO). Three weeks ago we took her out in chest-level grass on six pheasant and 6 chukar. She exceeded my expectations on the chukar (6 for 6) but did poorly on the pheasants. I think one of the things that makes her successful on grouse may be a disadvantage on pheasants that will tend to run a little more, or hunker down a little more?...she seemed to have a tough time finding their scent cone in the tall grass.

I'm not an expert, but this may be your issue as well. Sounds like you have a great grouse dog...maybe he just needs more work on some other birds or different habitat, same as my pup.

[Fox]

From experience hunting wild pheasant I can say I honestly HATE hunting tall grass unless there are some types of breaks, either man made or geographically. The propensity of birds running is only made worse in big expanses of tall grass. That on top of the earlier mentioned scenting issues can make it very tough.
F

[Rudi's Dad]

Ive seen a preserve owner drive a PU out in the bird field, releases phez all at once in flight from the center of the field. While you are getting the dogs ready.
If you want birds PLANTED, tell them so. Youre paying for the hunt, if its not satisfactory, say so and actually dont pay.

[Direwolf]

I love the tall grass, it holds so many wild birds (Pheasant) and usually you get multiple flushes. My dog does very well in these conditions... he is "strong like bull" and just plows right thought it. It flat out amazes me to watch it when I can barely walk thought it.

In fact, Monday we put up six wild roosters and two hens out of two separate spots. The birds are hanging in these ares for a reason.

[RecurveRx]

Originally Posted by Direwolf

I love the tall grass, it holds so many wild birds (Pheasant) and usually you get multiple flushes. My dog does very well in these conditions... he is "strong like bull" and just plows right thought it. It flat out amazes me to watch it when I can barely walk thought it.

In fact, Monday we put up six wild roosters and two hens out of two separate spots. The birds are hanging in these ares for a reason.

Are you running a flushing dog?

[woodedareas]

I am running a pointing dog , English Setter Ryman type that quarters very close to me. He is not a flushing dog and can not complete his quartering through tall grass as he has been trained. I think a strong field dog that flushes could handle the fields very well. I agree with the comments that I have received as they express the experience that I have had.

[Direwolf]

Are you running a flushing dog?

Yes, I have a three year old male field bred ESS that is 60 pounds of muscle... thus the "strong like bull" comment.

He is not a flushing dog and can not complete his quartering through tall grass as he has been trained.

Can you elaborate on this some? What happens when he can't "complete is quartering"? Does he just stop? I agree with Birdhuntr1, it is tough for most dogs... the birds run, move all around... there is tons of scent and it gets hard for the dogs to pin birds down. I don't think you need to worry about your dog, or that the preserve necessarily did something wrong (but sure, the might have).

[woodedareas]

Essentially my Setter is accustomed to hunting in areas where he is not restricted by dense high cover. That is afiels where the cover is less dense and not very high. He seems to excell in areas where he can move more quickly and not get caught up in the thick type of stalky plants that are planted close together.I have watched him work and he uses an exceptionally great amount of time and energy just making it through the thick stuff and I have to admit I don't like it either. I guess I am learning as much about myself as I am about my hunting partner.

[Direwolf]

Originally Posted by woodedareas

Essentially my Setter is accustomed to hunting in areas where he is not restricted by dense high cover. That is afiels where the cover is less dense and not very high. He seems to excell in areas where he can move more quickly and not get caught up in the thick type of stalky plants that are planted close together.I have watched him work and he uses an exceptionally great amount of time and energy just making it through the thick stuff and I have to admit I don't like it either. I guess I am learning as much about myself as I am about my hunting partner.

Have you taught your dog hand commands? The reason I ask is that I, on some occasions just send my dog in and stay out of the rough stuff. Sure, they may work it slower but the chances of (wild) birds being there is a lot higher especially in less than ideal conditions and when they are still on, or going to roost.

[denyag]

I watched my GSP step right over birds at preserves. She points wild birds 15 feet out. At times there must be a abundance of scent or the pen birds dont have scent I believe the fields must be saturated with scent and the birds become stealthy.

[woodedareas]

Yes I am working on hand commands and I have found the best place to teach is while we are hunting as he is the most responsive. I do agree that the pheasants that are handled a lot do not seem to have the same scent as wild birds. My dog did great with grouse. Unfortunately many of us are limited to preserve hunting given our location and work schedules.

[Direwolf]

Originally Posted by woodedareas

Yes I am working on hand commands and I have found the best place to teach is while we are hunting as he is the most responsive. I do agree that the pheasants that are handled a lot do not seem to have the same scent as wild birds. My dog did great with grouse. Unfortunately many of us are limited to preserve hunting given our location and work schedules.

Good to hear on the hand commands!

We have three small children and have found that we like hand commands in every situation. Especially if we are putting the kids to bed, or have to go in their rooms while they are asleep. To quick silent commands and we don't have to worry about the big oaf jumping onto a sleeping child's bed. The fact that we use them daily with him has led to him being more responsive in the field to hand commands and, oddly enough, the rescue dogs that come through (I think we just sent #10 to a permanent home last Sunday) seem to pick up on them rather fast.

All in all, I don't think you have much to worry about

[Bingo boy]

If I started talking about dogs and training , the conversation would become one sided and last for a week.

I'm 51 years old , hunt daily , and sometimes we forget the most essential thing when we hunt with dogs -

We must enjoy the hunt.

SO if the dog is not preforming well , we go back to the training field.
IF the habitat is not enjoyable for us - look for better cover , if that means different woods , field , hunting perserve .... what ever.

When I am out hunting there are two priorities , dog must work as he was trained , and I must enjoy my self.

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I used to bust a gut putting up 3 duck blinds , working a heavily hunted large marsh , and 2 years ago I said it wasn't worth it.
When I hunt that marsh , I pass shot and what I get I have fun doing it.