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Dog question

2K views 16 replies 12 participants last post by  pathfinder 1984 
#1 ·
I just spoke to my friend and he just returned from his place in the western UP. The good news is that he seen a ton of birds ( Grouse ), the bad news is that his dog wasn't cooperating like he should. He has a two and half year old English setter that just flies through the woods kicking up birds. He has an ecollar on him and does come back with the whistle, but as soon as he releases him off he goes on a dead run. I have hunted behind this dog at the Huntsman and he seems fine in the field. Any insight on how to keep this dog closer would be appreciated.
 
#8 ·
this young dog may have gotten into too many birds at once and lost his head.

if it were my dog, i would go back to basics on pigeons and break him to be completely steady to wing and shot before putting him on more wild birds maybe start next season with woodcock first as much as possible. they dont seem to fire a dog up as much as grouse do when they flush. a brood of grouse flushing can unhinge many dogs.

your friends dog is young. maybe some time with a really good pro trainer would be money well spent.

i've spent more than one frustrating season myself. my thoughts are good slow, make sure your dog knows what he's supposed to do and it pays off in the long run.

it isnt the first season in a dogs life that i remember as much as the last. even Einstein was a slow learner..
 
#9 ·
I would be careful with planted birds. It can and does work, but I am of the opinion wild birds are better trainers. If an over eager young dog catches a planted bird, it will be even more difficult to convince him they cannot catch another bird.
The dog needs to know what is expected of him. The hunter needs to be willing to skip hunts to train. Training and hunting are not the same things. Dog must be Whoa trained. When dog intentionally runs bird up, the hunter must whoa the dog and carry the dog to the spot it ran the bird up. I believe at some point hunter must assert dominance over dog.
Dog is currently hunting for himself, must be taught he is hunting for his master. E collar is a tool to reinforce training methods.
It is normal for dogs old and young to get excited when finding a covey of birds, it is their version of hitting the jackpot.
The best part of hunting with a dog is the journey you take together. If the hunter is looking for a trained dog and successful results only, or lacks time and effort, then send the dog out to be trained.
 
#10 ·
i agree with a lot of what you are saying. i use a DTS launcher with pigeons. the dog cant catch them and if he starts to creep or road in, you can pop the pigeon which should stop him to the flush.

i use a shock collar but, again, you have to be careful using it in the field. if you use it at the wrong time you can start your dog blinking.

what i'm getting at here, is if you have a problem, i think it's it best to go back to the basics and start all over again. it's takes a lot of time, patience, and self control to make a pup into a totally reliable birddog.

i've got a new pointer pup from Bruce Minard (Titaniums Hammer x Leets Sinderella). he's only 7 months old. i'd start him on pigeons now but i dont have any and it takes a generation of pigeons before they will recall to the loft.

plan is, to start him on pigeons in the spring, hunt him next fall but not kill birds over him until late in the season or even the next year. i'm to the point where i enjoy the dog work more than killing birds. not that i wasnt a bit bloodthirsty in my younger days.

hope you are all enjoying the season. it's good to hear that someone is finding respectable numbers of grouse. the last year i hunted we did a lot of walking to find birds.
 
#11 · (Edited)
At the huntsman birds are not visible do to cover which is planted just for that reason. In the woods their is no cover and dog can often see the grouse. If he locks up many times dog sees grouse walking or strutting away, to much it offers chase which is natural instinct.

So dog needs to have more training. Not a quick fix using ecollar. But is a quick fix if done correctly by handler/trainer. First teach or redo stop to flush. This if he starts popping birds usually the light bulb comes on and he starts correctly handling birds. Second before going back in woods teach dog to point birds he sees on lawns/short grass but if he sees birds get up he does not take off or work it until giving a release command to rework bird.

Understand usually if not all the time if a dog starts popping birds it is not the dogs fault, but the owner by lack of proper training or better yet just lack of training.

What was said earlier a lot of bird exposure can cause a dog to come unglued as well. That being said this also can be trained for as well before actually hunting.

Also what was mentioned about catching a planted bird can take training backwards. The same can be said for continuing busting birds because it can become behavior, which is harder to break than a fluke.

Good luck with pup but a weekend of proper training can make a much better experience in the woods. I also would suggest a beeper collar with hawk scream when on point, it helps keeping birds from running off it does not stop the dog from seeing the bird. If the two things I mentioned earlier trained for or refreshing course should take care of issues he/she is having.

I also would not use ecollar which many times dog takes it as the bird or you not wanting bird and dog starts blinking birds. Have seen this scenario and heard of this more than it fixing the issue your friend is having with pup.. A bird hunting dog that blinks birds is not a solution.
 
#12 ·
I believe you are asking the wrong question.
If the dog were to hunt closer, it seems that it would still be running up birds, yes?
Seems to me the question should be, how do I get this dog to point the birds it encounters?

The quick brutal answer is to get a trainer involved. If the dog is 2 1/2 and hasn't caught on yet, I'd say your friend may be the problem, not the dog.

Good luck to your friend, the good news is that it sounds like the dog has plenty of giddy up, and a nose to find birds. Now it just needs some manners around them.
 
#13 ·
Lack of birdwork/training and/or zero respect for his owner and simply hunting on his own for his own selfish fun. Sounds like both.
 
#14 ·
my young dog 17 months old will point grouse and woodcock as long as they stay in one spot if they run or move at all the dog thinks there going to get away and breaks point and puts the bird up i have killed a few woodcock over her but if it moves as birds will do then up they go i thought just work thru it she will fig.. things out but iv had her in a lot of birds she is whoa broke in the yard but around birds she gets to excited she will chase im going to keep hunting her the rest of the year but im open to any sugestions
 
#15 ·
Setterpoint- I would say your pup is well on her way, are you sure she isn't busting the birds? Are you close enough to see her point, bird moves then she bumps it? The reason I ask is I have seen dogs who will point a bird and have such a prey drive/selfishness, that they will then bump the birds trying to catch the bird themselves.
A few good talkings usually can set the dog in its place.
 
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