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Harsens DNR/public meeting

3K views 43 replies 19 participants last post by  Birddoggem 
#1 ·
does anyone know when is this meeting between Harsens DNR and duck hunters in the area? Plan to attend to put my two cents about mojo ban and not posting kill results and I am sure some new stupid rule. I like to encourage others to attend so others do not try to make it like a private hunt club.
 
#8 ·
i think the warning should be directed at fsamie...not everyone else. :) his slander towards the groups that donate time, money and sweat into these places so they stay alive for the future generations is insulting and hurtful. I'll make it my personal mission to follow every post he has on here to prevent him from tearing down all the people that work hard to try and make these places great for the "MAJORITY" of "ALL" the hunters.

hes a bomb thrower. thats the whole point of this post. he coulda found that information in 10 seconds via the web...but he came here to get the attention.
 
#11 ·
what has been happening since 80's? Mojo rule started a few years ago and banning kill chart posting started last year. Other rule about having dog in certain areas was discontinued recently hopefully because people like me calling Lansing and complaining. Talked to DNR people behind the counter at Harsens and woman and his dad behind the counter representing HIWHA and they like kill charts to be posted. Replaced my spinning wing mojos to flapping wing mojos so that not an issue. I guess what was happening since 80's was local clubs setting the rules for state run place to make it their private hunt club paid by tax payers. All I am saying is that is wrong in democratic society. I do not know how many of people hunting Harsens are member of these clubs that have no knowledge of what rule change is on ballot at local club meeting. I do admire volunteers contributing time and money to managed areas like HIWHA contributing $20,000 to purchase a tractor.
Kid, I like to know how many hours and dollars you contribute to Shiawassee managed area? Just like to know, no malicious intent.
I will be fishing Sunday. I probably know most locals and talk to them all the time but I am not good at remembering name. Here is me with my friends kid.
View attachment 223818
 
#12 ·
you want me to list everything i've done for shiawassee over the lasts 36 years? how much time you got? c'mon get real.

you lost kill charts and you're mad. get over it.

i'd be careful throwing around the "democratic way" because you leave too much up for public vote and you won't have hunting left to bitch about....show me a hunting proposal that the public voted on that passed in the last 10-20 years. Most changes for the greater good are a hard pill to swallow. I leave those up to the people in charge and who have a major stake in the game. When spinner proposal was first brought up guys laughed and said no way would i ever support it...now that they've seen it in action...major converters. It was that drastic of a success here.

i wish i could show you a full season of spinner and area satisfaction. and no spinners and whole area satisfaction in 1 day but i can't. i lived it. I had 12 spinners at one time in my field before. i've slaughtered over spinners. I was the worst abuser of spinners probably ever recorded at the flats. There was days i never put a floating decoy out. It was an arms race of no return. so hey if you guys want to go back to that, its cool. I still have my arsenal....but its stupid and less enjoyable to others as a whole.

like i said, i think your bomb thrower. you make this post today without any note of the history of bashing you've done the last few years.
 
#21 ·
I did not mention last year's awful thread because it was a Pi$$ing contest, some were insulting me and I was coming up with something worse to insult them. Not going to go that route again.

I agree with you 100 percent about public voting but I meant duck hunters voting. I still see no good reason not posting kill charts. I was taking pictures and posting them here for not everyday hunters and locals did not like it. They made the ruling and hoping a newbie early in draw does not know where to go and they have advantage. I think that is not fair.

Last year, someone saw my flappers and said a guy got ticketed for that. I drove back to check station and ask John if that is illegal and he said no it is not. Last year, the wording at check station was "spinning wing" and in wetland wonders on DNR site it still says spinning wings. Before it was banned, almost everyone had a few of them in the field and now no body can have them, so it is a level playing field, no big deal.

I was just curious how many hours and dollars you contribute each year over 36 years. Is it like 10 hours, 100 bucks or 100 hours, 1000 dollars, just curious. When I retire in a couple of years I probably join the clubs and contribute. Lastly, when I do not agree or like something, I do not stay quiet and go away, I like to express my opinion and challenge people about why. Is that a bomb thrower? if so, guilty as charged.
 
#14 ·
Ditto on what Shi Kid and Jerry said. AND...I'd reiterate that you need to stop laying in the weeds biatching about the "clubs", and join them. When you get involved, you help the area, and...guess what...eventually you gain credibility so people listen to your comments and don't simply hear them as criticisms. I've said it before, there is power in numbers when it comes to policy issues at the state level. One person's opinion doesn't carry much weight. But a sizeable group will be listened to by those in Lansing who make the rules. We proved that at Shiawassee years ago with the first spinner ban. No one thought it was possible. But after about 18 months of hard work by many people, surprise...Lansing listened!

I can vouch for Shi Kid's involvement at Shiawassee. He's probably one of 4 or 5 who have spent more of their own time and money on that place over the last 25 years than ANYONE can imagine. I know some of those who are involved with the organizations at Harsen's, and they're every bit as committed to making that place great. You mentioned some of the things those groups have done, but I GUARANTEE YOU that there are a whole lot of things they do that never get noticed, but help you all enjoy your hunting there. I know it because it's the same at Shiawassee. The DNR can't run these places alone. There isn't enough money or interest. But hours and hours of volunteer time and labor go into making these places run. The average hunter has no clue...NONE.

Okay, I'm done... :)
 
#22 ·
I see both arguments to the whole kill chart thing. I see why regulars hate them as it takes an advantage they have over someone who might hunt there a couple times a year. I know I liked them out of pure curiousity. It was interesting to see the big dead zones and the more typical producing areas. I also see the argument that people will lie and not report their true kill to try and protect an area. I think people who do that are losers and just sorry ass human being. Not sure why they can't just up the punishment for knowingly lying on your kill card, I understand that would be hard to prove.

I love the spinner bands and would loooove to see FP follow it.
 
#23 ·
These are still state run areas and items like this (i.e. kill charts or no kill charts) should really be uniform for all areas. Not just one or two but across the board. I do think it detracts from new people trying an area if they really have to go in blind to a new area and they don't know anyone. For those select areas choosing to implement this, it does come across as benefiting a select few (whether that is the intent or not).

In full disclosure I hunt a few managed areas and wouldn't mind seeing kill charts go away at those areas but I also realize it would only hurt participation and that is something that we don't need. Plus any waterfowl hunter worth his or her salt should have and plan for multiple options even at a managed area.
 
#24 ·
again. its not hunting if you are told where to go. if you need to see kill numbers of a specific gps coords to justify hunting...sad.

what cracks me up is it doesn't benefit us locals. 90% of our hunters are from SE michigan. i can count the locals on 2 hands out of 50 parties each day. Evidently there is a strong showing of non-locals who don't give a crap about kill charts.

so let me put something in an example. Guy from grand rapids takes a week off from work, and comes to shiawassee. on first day there he kinda feels out the draw, takes some historic good area (center field in one of the blocks). while hunting he realizes hes off in his pick. Next day he goes to the draw and uses what he learned and makes an educated pick to get on the birds.

kill charts just ruined his chances of getting that spot that he himself scouted.

that hunter wasn't a local. he got screwed by whiney, entitled hunters who don't want to put an ounce of work in to shoot birds. Its not surprising that the same hunter who is too lazy to go find the birds is the same hunter whining about not being able to use spinners. its no coincidence.

and don't get me started on recording numbers because prior to the delayed kill chart NO ONE reported a good hole unless they completely wanted it DIRECTLY on the radar for the next days draw. Now i will give you that fish point, nyq point and harsens are smaller zones. Most people can SEE when someone does well. This can go both ways tho...very easy to scout from the roads. If you are new, hunt the afternoon and scout the morning (observe). There is no logical excuse for being lazy. If you are squished on time....well figure out how to get more time...don't try to change the system to benefit you and screw others.

and kill charts are not gone....they are just delayed a few days. its ******* sad that we have people whining and complaining for up to the minute kill charts.
 
#27 ·
I don't have a dog in this fight because I haven't hunted a managed unit in 20 yrs. I do however like to see them be successful. Let me try to play devils advocate here.

Your comment about it not being hunting when you are told where to go.....I would also argue it isn't hunting when you are told when to be there for a dwg to try and force fair opurtunity on all parties. Your example of a guy taking a week off work to hunt a managed unit for a week happens alot less than..... the guy that brings his kid two weekends in a row and strikes out on the lottery. They get discouraged and don't come back for a week or two because dad is had a rough week at work and he doesn't want to drive 1.5 hrs to take another chance in a lottery. A few weeks go by and son talks him into trying one last time before season ends. They finally get their good draw and dad has no clue as to what area has been decent recently. They have a less than desirable hunt for the 3rd straight time and they stop coming.

The dnr has had a campaign to get people to come out and experience the managed areas for a few yrs now. They are actually pushing to get you to try all 7 in one season and see what they have to offer.....sort of the opposite of your hypothetical guy from GR. It is the occasional hunter that they are trying to recruit. I think kill reports help that scenario ( the more common scenario in my opinion). You said yourself that most parties are from southeast mi at shiawassee and only a couple are locals. The guys like you kid and your guy from GR are going to be there yr after yr regardless of kill reports.

I really do see both sides of the argument. I am just thinking that offering kill reports helps hunter recruitment.
 
#25 ·
i rarely hunt harsens or fish pt...but yet when i go there 3-4 times a year and kill birds....without kill charts??? how did i pull that off. must be magic....sheesh. must be the good ol' boys club or something.

fsamie, if i was a betting man i would bet $100 you would take the upwind field of the honey hole with #1 pick in the draw...<----if you don't understand this insult, then you should figure it out instead of whining about kill charts.
 
#26 ·
I would say it's easier to kill birds at FP then it is Shi. Shiawassee seems to have a lot more "dead zones". I've had a couple hints at Shi where I've never shot my gun. That cannot be said for FP. Even on a crappy draw.

I can't recall ever using a kill chart to tell me where to go. Like j said, it was just interesting to see. You still need a good draw. As I said, I see both arguments and I really don't care either way. It won't hurt my hunt.
 
#28 ·
I see both arguments to the whole kill chart thing. I see why regulars hate them as it takes an advantage they have over someone who might hunt there a couple times a year. I know I liked them out of pure curiousity. It was interesting to see the big dead zones and the more typical producing areas. I also see the argument that people will lie and not report their true kill to try and protect an area. I think people who do that are losers and just sorry ass human being. Not sure why they can't just up the punishment for knowingly lying on your kill card, I understand that would be hard to prove.

I love the spinner bands and would loooove to see FP follow it.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.
 
#30 ·
I guess I wasn't necasarrily talking about attracting youths but I could see how my post would read that way.

I was thinking about catering to all hunters to make every guy who walks through the door feel like they are being set up for success. To me duck hunting is a fragile sport in the world of hunter retainment. It isn't like deer hunting where fringe hunters buy a license yr after yr to go up for that camp experience regardless if they get a deer. Those guys spend money and get their entertainment and go home happy. Duck hunting is hard to do at a level where there is little time and monetary investment. Fringe duck hunters and deer hunters are important for their sport whether hard core hunters like them or not.

Many people view managed areas as a place where they can go a few times a yr and have a decent hunt without investing in boats for the big water get up at 1 am to beat the crowds, spend weekends scouting etc... if they feel they aren't getting a fair deal at a managed area they won't come back.

You can argue there is no disadvantage by taking away kill numbers and posting them 3 days later. I would tend to agree with you. But that doesn't change public perception. On the surface a guy feels cheated and a fringe hunter doesn't think much deeper than that.

For the record I was born the son of a fringe duck hunter. My dad hunted fish point 5-6 times a yr or so until I was about age 8-9. He told stories about changes he didn't like that made his hunting worse and he eveventually gave it up. Lucky for me I had an uncle that hunted fish point religiously and took me along when I was 16.
 
#31 ·
I guess I wasn't necasarrily talking about attracting youths but I could see how my post would read that way.

I was thinking about catering to all hunters to make every guy who walks through the door feel like they are being set up for success.
i have a major problem with this sentence.

the state game area or DNR is not responsible for setting up your success. they are responsible for providing you with the best opportunity to create your own success.
 
#40 ·
one thing that has not really come out in this discussion is the difference between Harsens Island and the other managed areas (i.e. Shi, FP, NP). Harsen's has required hunters to bring their birds back to the check station after the hunt. This in itself would allow the DNR to get accurate numbers, unless of course hunters don't bring all of their birds to be checked...could be happening I guess? But the other areas do not require that check of birds after the hunt. They just require that you list your kill on your daily permit and return it. Again, hunters could lie about their kill if they wanted. So the DNR supposedly is getting their kill numbers, without posting the kill sheets at all, and I can't really support the argument that the kill sheets were only so the DNR got kill numbers to report. The kill sheets are simply a way of hunters knowing what was shot where...again, assuming that kills were reported accurately.

The big thing here is that right or wrong, many hunters became reliant on the kill sheets, and got in the habit of using them to determine their hunting locations. Others have not.
 
#41 ·
It's not really Hunting. A field where corn is grown and flooded for the purposes of attracting ducks is really not comparable to nature. Call it what it is, a duck shooting factory.
Its also a layover feeding refuge for the migration that also draws ducks to the whole general area, not just the hunting zones. Hunters, out in "nature" miles from the "duck shooting factory" benefit.
 
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