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4K views 33 replies 10 participants last post by  StevenJ 
#1 ·
I purchased 20 acres last October, and am in the process of doing everything I can to make it the best deer hunting land possible. With quite a bit of ag fields near my property, would you focus on making as much bedding as possible, or focus on bedding + food? The majority of my hardwoods is lowland made up of maple trees - dark, moist soil. They need to be cut because the they aren't allowing ANY light in for new growth. There is a 55 acre property to my east that isn't hunted at all, and the deer are bedding there and to the property to my south - it's very thick! Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thank you!

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This is a snapshot of my property so you can see the surrounding area.

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Closer pic of property. The deer were moving west to a corn field, and north to a bean field. Like I said, most of the bedding was in the property to my east where there is no hunting, and to my south where it is very thick lowland shrubs.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I think the question you have to ask yourself on bedding is: can you out compete the natural bedding areas on the properties to the south and west? If not trying to 'force' them to bed in those areas may be a exercise in futility in frustration. Don't fall into the buck bed trap, they will bed where they naturally want to bed no matter how special of a bed you can or think you can make. But if you have the topography that they want you very well may get it done.

It could make more sense to treat the property as a transitional zone in the following manner:

Possibly focus on creating a plan with transitional food plots that deer would hopefully use just before heading to the larger fields in the evening and last thing in the mornings before returning to bedding areas. Which would hopefully lead to a fair amount of daylight activity on your ground, provided you keep your intrusion to a minimum.

Also, if you could get some does to bed in known areas on your property near your plots, you could attempt to ambush cruising bucks that likely bed to the south and east on neighboring grounds on the more prime bedding habitat. During the rut these bucks would be searching your bedding areas in search of receptive does.

Have fun and take this with a grain of salt, I am far from an expert.
 
#4 ·
jrs - Thanks for the input. I know that if I make my open grass field thick with shrubs, it will be very good bedding. The east part of my open grass field is fairly thick and deer are bedding in there. I saw a few nice bucks this year, but none were bedding on my property, they were just passing through on their way to the ag fields. As for the hardwoods on my property, I don't really know. It's moist dark soil, so I don't know if that will ever be EXTREMELY appealing bedding area. My hope would be if I cut down the majority of the maples, grass will start growing and it will replicate the grass area I have on my property to the south.
 
#3 ·
Ok, I'm going to throw this out because it's not the easy thing to do. It's much easier to suggest cutting this tree or building this blind from 100 miles away. Until you have boots on the ground you can't tell what is happening. I would focus on watching the deer movement for a year or two before I started any project. My first goal is developing an access plan that doesn't kick every deer out for 250 acres. I would then decide which stand locations offer the best opportunity based on my access and the wind patterns when I want to hunt. Once you understand how the deer move and where they naturally bed over a couple of different weather patterns then things start to make sense. After I had a sense of what the deer naturally want to do then I would start to position food plots or man made paths to maximize the property. Just my 2 cents

Tim
 
#5 ·
I was able to hunt the property all of this season, and have a very good understanding on the deer movement and where they are bedding. Like I said, the deer are bedding to the east and to the south and are moving to ag fields to the north and to the west. I realize it is much easier if everybody was able to walk my property, but that's obviously not possible. Just trying to get some opinions on what others may do, or more importantly, wouldn't do. As for developing an access plan, that's a great idea. I can walk my neighbors property to the north and to the west to access stands, but I will definitely need to figure this out before moving forward. Thanks for the input.
 
#6 ·
You don't need bedding for hunting. It will only screw up your hunting. There are already too many does in your area and bucks will not cruise if the have to travel 10 yards to lock down a doe in Marian Twp.

You need to think about cruising bucks. You cannot out-compete bedding areas to your east.

Staging food plots are a key ingredient.

Hunting pressure is your worse enemy. You need to hunt sparingly with excellent set ups (stands).

Agree with jrs's first three paragraphs. The fourth paragraph is without knowledge that there are already too many does and bucks don't need to cruise around you.

Totally agree with Anderson.

Food plots are necessary. You need to kill off reed canary grass and plant excellent food plots.
 
#8 ·
Thanks Steven! What types of food plots are you planting in your RCG areas? And hunting pressure is definitely my biggest challenge. I'll have to make sure I limit my number of sits, and only hunt when conditions are favorable.

My property is similar to yours I do not know what they plant in those ag fields but deer prefer to come out to smaller plots before they go to the larger fields .This works out great for me as the deer are usually gone just after dark and I do not spook them as I leave .A couple acres of clover and brassica should bring them to you .
Sounds like I'll be putting a couple acres of food plots in! How many acres do you own?
 
#7 ·
My property is similar to yours I do not know what they plant in those ag fields but deer prefer to come out to smaller plots before they go to the larger fields .This works out great for me as the deer are usually gone just after dark and I do not spook them as I leave .A couple acres of clover and brassica should bring them to you .
 
#14 ·
I would go heavy on the alice white clover (very prolific and tall growing) and alsike for the wet areas. At least get an initial soil sample. If the pH is low 5.8 to 6.3 you might want to double down on the alsike.

That said I am also very fond of Imperial Whitetail Clover brand. Right now is the time to find it on sale (1/3 ladino, 1/3 Berseem (annual dies after frost) and 1/3 filler (coating).

I would not wait past Mid May to spray RCG It is a bear after that and simply impossibly thick in eary June. (I would initiate with three sprays in spring (According to the classic Ed Spinn recommedations.

Disking RCG without adequately killing is trouble because it breaks up rhizome shoots into individually re-sproutable plants.

I would not plant food plots the first year until the fall mid August. Esp if you want a perennial clover plot. (and the next year use clethodim rather than roundup. Roundup initially)

If and only if you know what you are doing (a very big if!), with an entirely adequate established, thick burn break of clover (might take two years), Burn the RCG residue (which is thick and hard to spray through) in spring Late April and they Gly, Gly, Gly thereafter.









Oh Yeah, only if you know what you are doing. And keep it away from houses. :)

 
#19 ·
I'll definitely make sure that if I do burn, it won't be near my house!! Your property looks great! I'm planning on spraying my RCG early in the spring, and will repeat a couple more times as needed. I should be able to stay on top of spraying, etc. as I live on this property. Which will be very beneficial when I start planting all of my trees and shrubs this spring. I'll be able to monitor them to make sure the RCG isn't suffocating anything I plant.
 
#16 ·
I would try my best to make food plots & a small watering hole in the RCG area. I would hinge 4 acres on the east side of your woods for bedding/browse. I would make pinch points/funnels in the rest of your woods. When the rut roles around i want does bedding on my property. A good transition area needs cover to keep deer comfortable, i believe your woods are to open. Let some light in.
 
#20 ·
I definitely need to cut some trees! All of the maples aren't allowing any sunlight in. I agree, I definitely want does on my property when the rut rolls around.



This watering hole was established about 15 years ago. It is about 20 feet wide and ten feet deep (although I've really never tested the depth). The water table is up to the rim during the wet season, esp in the spring. During mid summer it typically drops about 5 feet.

It is something a hired excavator would dig.
Looks good! Do you have a lot of deer activity around your watering hole?
 
#17 ·


This watering hole was established about 15 years ago. It is about 20 feet wide and ten feet deep (although I've really never tested the depth). The water table is up to the rim during the wet season, esp in the spring. During mid summer it typically drops about 5 feet.

It is something a hired excavator would dig.
 
#24 ·
jrs1986,

I think your different perspective is good.

You don't say how big your hunting property is with the vast surroundings.

We all have our frame of reference. My frame of reference is being 10 miles away from Boofer, having a high deer population, I do actually have a doe sink and it does prevent bucks from moving significant distances. They simply don't have to travel distances to find a receptive doe. The bucks use more marginal undisturbed areas to bed and roam. I can count on nearly 24 does bedding on or around my 35.5 acres in back (I have three acres frontage). I have good food cover, bedding, water and lack of hunting pressure (I hunt rarely and am not that experienced with a bow. 95% of my time and efforts are habitat--I love it--and 5% hunting). Tremendous hunting pressure and neighborhood disturbances. Human presence and domestic dogs, as well as over-hunting neighbors. 3 1/2 year old bucks and older are not stupid or lack instincts to be anything but nocturnal when they need to be. And they don't have to move to find does in the 60 DPSM area.

But I do have exceptional habitat. And do have a doe sink. It is not a scare tactic by habitat managers. I see it on stand all the time. I do see a fair number of bucks, just not shooters on stand during legal shooting times. And I don't spend enough time on stand because I got other things going on.

It is not unusual for me to see the first 24 deer in a blind during EAS firearms seasons be all antler-less. Three years ago I saw 40 deer during opening day firearms. One was a 2 1/2 year old impressive looking buck that I took a pass on at 45 yards (waiting for a 3 1/2 year old, which never came. I just have no desire to harvest a 2 1/2 year old).

I agree that if Boofer has no bedding at all he should create it and it won't be a detriment.
You make good points. Only Boofer can do what's best and write his own script based on what he sees and adapts to. But too many does, excessive hunting pressure and over harvest of immature bucks will present a problem. You are right, having do bedding is probably a good thing for him to shoot for.
 
#25 ·
jrs1986,

I think your different perspective is good.

You don't say how big your hunting property is with the vast surroundings.

We all have our frame of reference. My frame of reference is being 10 miles away from Boofer, having a high deer population, I do actually have a doe sink and it does prevent bucks from moving significant distances. They simply don't have to travel distances to find a receptive doe. The bucks use more marginal undisturbed areas to bed and roam. I can count on nearly 24 does bedding on or around my 35.5 acres in back (I have three acres frontage). I have good food cover, bedding, water and lack of hunting pressure (I hunt rarely and am not that experienced with a bow. 95% of my time and efforts are habitat--I love it--and 5% hunting). Tremendous hunting pressure and neighborhood disturbances. Human presence and domestic dogs, as well as over-hunting neighbors. 3 1/2 year old bucks and older are not stupid or lack instincts to be anything but nocturnal when they need to be. And they don't have to move to find does in the 60 DPSM area.

But I do have exceptional habitat. And do have a doe sink. It is not a scare tactic by habitat managers. I see it on stand all the time. I do see a fair number of bucks, just not shooters on stand during legal shooting times. And I don't spend enough time on stand because I got other things going on.

It is not unusual for me to see the first 24 deer in a blind during EAS firearms seasons be all antler-less. Three years ago I saw 40 deer during opening day firearms. One was a 2 1/2 year old impressive looking buck that I took a pass on at 45 yards (waiting for a 3 1/2 year old, which never came. I just have no desire to harvest a 2 1/2 year old).

I agree that if Boofer has no bedding at all he should create it and it won't be a detriment.
You make good points. Only Boofer can do what's best and write his own script based on what he sees and adapts to. But too many does, excessive hunting pressure and over harvest of immature bucks will present a problem. You are right, having do bedding is probably a good thing for him to shoot for.
Thank you for your very civil response. I hope you can see that I wasn't trying to start an argument or say that you're wrong, but rather have an discussion with someone with different viewpoints. Perspective is a funny thing, and although we've had somewhat similar experiences our opinions vary greatly.

My property is 42 acres with 1 acre of frontage. It is a mixture of tillable, hardwood ridges, dogwood thickets, and scattered Reed Canary Grass pockets. Along with that there is ample water provided by a pond, a creek, and several man-made drainage ditches. While some does do bed on my property, I feel the majority of the bedding and especially buck bedding takes place on neighboring grounds. Despite this (and high concentrations of does) we've been quasi successful at harvesting 3.5 y/o and older bucks over the years. And as we improve our habitat and minimize our impact during hunting season, I'm confident that we can increase our odds in the coming seasons (just my brother and I hunting it currently).

With that said I fully agree that habitat manipulation is more enjoyable than actually hunting. But for me deer season is a year round event, I just can't get enough of it. I'm presently on year 4 of about a 10 year plan. Also, being young with no kids yet, a very understanding and awesome wife, and a seasonal self-employed business that affords me the ability to spend literally as much time as I want in the fall to chase whitetails, I'd say that I'm rather blessed.

I would be surprised if our density during hunting season is anything less than the 60 DPSM that you mention and 75 DPSM wouldn't really surprise me. Included in that estimate, I say we have a good percentage of antlered bucks, which usually includes a few in the 3.5 range, and usually at least 1 or a small handful in the 4.5 range (5.5 and older bucks are very rare, I'd say we have 1 around every 2-3 years at best).

Despite the high population, I still feel they must move in order to find a receptive doe during the rut. Now certainly the distance will generally be less in a population of 60 animals per square mile as opposed to 15, but distance must be traveled nonetheless if they desire to breed. And by the limited rutting activity I've seen after late November, I believe that the overwhelming majority of it takes place during the primary breeding phase. This combined with other thoughts, brings me to the conclusion that the does bedding on my ground are being courted when they go into estrous in early November, despite the likely fact that some of the bucks may be bedding 1/4 to 1/2 mile away.

Perhaps the difference in our situations is the surrounding pressure. It's sounds as though yours is very high, while mine is generally pretty low. Our greatest pressure always comes from within, and the only way to change that would be to stop hunting. We have 90 acres of immediate and adjacent dogwood and tamarack thickets that act as sanctuaries, with virtually zero hunting pressure.

Maybe there are things that neither of us understand or have even thought about, and to me that's half the fun of this.

So again I just can't wrap my head around the doe sink theory, it's just too easy to poke holes into in my opinion. But who knows? Maybe I'm entirely wrong, I like to consider myself a constant student of all this stuff. And I truly hope that never changes.

Another point from a previous post of yours I agree with, is that does bedding on the OP may screw up his hunting. That is very possible if they are bedding randomly, it will likely make accessing stands without bumping deer very difficult. If this is the case nearly everyone would agree that his hunting would deteriorate fast. But if he can design known bedding areas which will allow him access to great stands without giving away his position, that would tip the ball in his favor. And if possible, it is my opinion that this is what he should strive for, along with the transition plots

But again only Boofer can make that determination and set goals as to what he'd like to try to achieve. I would just offer the advice to set realistic goals, if there haven't been any 4.5 year old bucks around regularly for years, there is likely nothing you can do about that. Unless you want to buy out the 600 acres around you, and even that may not do it.
 
#27 ·
Doe sinks/factories are REAL and they blow. (Unless you're purely a meat hunter with access to ample antlerless permits)

They are nice to hunt during the rut because bucks will move during that time, but outside of the rut, antlered deer sightings can be few and far between IMO.
 
#29 ·
Seeing antlered bucks few and far between outside the rut is sheer truth anywhere in the whitetail's range. They simply are reclusive and highly nocturnal outside their core area.

Include the amount of pressure present in Michigan combined with fairly intense harvest of antlered bucks and limited sightings of antlered deer is the only possible outcome.

Fact is that once velvet is shed, bucks become extremely reclusive and nocturnal.

Perhaps the so called 'doe sinks' have been labeled this because the habitat is simply not something that a buck would choose to occupy regardless of the amount of does in the area.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Perhaps the so called 'doe sinks' have been labeled this because the habitat is simply not something that a buck would choose to occupy regardless of the amount of does in the area.
Not really. A doe sink is a property with fantastic cover, food, water and bedding close by the food sources. Great place for matriarchal does to raise their families over decades. No bucks there in spring and summer and early fall because of the social pressure of too many does. ( Imagine you are a mature man in a room of 18 women opening up gifts at a baby shower. Do you really want to be there, except during the rutting season? That is the same instincts of a buck in a doe sink with 18 does hanging out in the area.)

The bucks would love to occupy that area (especially if unpressured) except for the fact that there are just too many does.

A doe sink isn't just always about an unskilled hunter whining about not seeing mature bucks. But it can be.
 
#28 ·
I know I am stating the obvious, but access in and out of stands is of utmost importance to me. It doesn't matter if you have a great plot if you bust deer going in or climbing down out of your stand. It doesn't matter your scent program if the deer can watch you walking to and fro. If you can get in and out like a ninja, and not get scent busted you can put more sits in. I have some good spots in my head I believe I need to put stands in, but won't do it until I have the time to implement great access.
 
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