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View Full Version : Muzzle-loader:What's your favorite projectile & load.




BuckBuster
05-20-2005, 01:24 PM
In my caplock gun:T/C 54 cal.Renegade I like to shoot a maxiball I think it's around 450 grain,with 90 grains of loose Pyrodex powder.In-line gun:T/C 50 cal.Black Diamond.I've tried sabots,& wasn't happy with results.One day when I was shooting 240 gr. sabots at 100 yds.My group was about 3 inches.I use 2-50 gr. Pyrodex pellets.I tried a 50 cal. 245 gr.Aerotip powerbelt not a sabot.Shot 2 shots & put them basically in same hole.I used them in Virginia, Shot a buck & 2 does.Shots were 30 yds. running,80 yds.standing,& 136 yds.standing.But the bullet never expanded at all.I dug out 2 of them.Could of used them again.Although the two standing deer fell in their tracks.The running one lived a couple hours.The hole going in was the same size as the one going out.I changed the following year to a Powerbelt hollow point 245 gr.My accuracy is not as good as aerotip over 125 yds. but the bullet does expand.At least on the buck that I got in Virginia in 2003 & the buck I got last year in West Virginia.If anyone uses Powerbelt bullets I like to hear your experience with it.Thanks.




triplehooked
05-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Haven't tried the powerbelts yet,but I'll throw my set up in anyway. Have a 50 cal. Knight rifle mod. LK93, syn.camo stock, blued barrel, w/a cheezy tasco 4x32 scope. I load with 100 gr. Hodgdon triple seven FFG, and Thompson Center mag express sabots, which are a copper jacketed 240 grain hollow point. They claim to mushroom 2x original diameter, we'll see when the time comes. I do know the accuracy is great, dead on at 125. It's to be used as my main deer gun, would like to get a better scope,though. Any suggestions? :chillin:

rzdrmh
05-20-2005, 01:55 PM
no, i'm not using powerbelts - i'm a fan of pure lead...

there's a great debate (maybe only in my mind, but anyway) about expansion vs. penetration.

lead is arguably the most forgiving to shoot, and excels in applications less than 200 yards, at speeds less than 2100 fps, perfect for muzzle loading.

i shoot a 325 grain buffalo bullet SSB (sabot) with 100 grains of 777, shot it out of a NEF huntsman, a Knight Disc elite, and a TC Omega - all of them liked the same load. by that, i mean ragged holes at 50 yards and sub 2" groups at 100. that SSB is a hollow point spitzer-style boat-tail, flies exceptionally well, IMO.

pure lead expands reliably, transfers all the energy to the deer, and leaves an exceptional wound channel.

the best part of lead is that you can get a box of those sabots i mentioned - $14, 36 per box.

the worst part of lead - don't drop one if you want it to look like a bullet - they dent easy.

Nick Adams
05-20-2005, 10:47 PM
.530 PRB/80gr Geox FFFG in a Lyman GPR (.54 Percussion)

-na

kroppe
05-20-2005, 11:00 PM
100 grains of pyrodex (2 x 50 gr pellets) under a 175 gr .45 cal sabot. Has gone 2 bullets for 2 deer in the past 2 seasons.

BuckBuster
05-21-2005, 08:40 AM
no, i'm not using powerbelts - i'm a fan of pure lead...

lead is arguably the most forgiving to shoot, and excels in applications less than 200 yards, at speeds less than 2100 fps, perfect for muzzle loading.



pure lead expands reliably, transfers all the energy to the deer, and leaves an exceptional wound channel.

I just realized that they make a pure lead Powerbelt 245 gr bullet.I guess I'll have to try that.Thanks.:yeahthat:

buktruk
05-22-2005, 10:00 AM
I have 2 muzzleloaders. My wife shoots my Knight Lk93 with a 250 grain Barnes Expander on top of 90 grains of Pyrodex 777, and I shoot a austin halleck 320 with a 300 grain barnes expander on top of 140 grains of 777. We have had great success with these loads for both accuracy and definatly knock down power! We have yet to have a deer take a step when hit with one of these. The expand perfectly and deposit virtually all of the energy into the deer.

Ron84
05-22-2005, 11:08 AM
In my Knight I use Hornady sabots with a 240 XTP bullet with 150 grains of pyrodex pellets behind it. I tried going down to 100 grains of powder after I had it sighted in with the 150 and noticed a drop, as expected, and have stuck with the 150 grains. I am debating going back down again to 100 because a box of pellets would last 150 % longer.

Overall, I've had great success with this and my Knight is my main deer gun. The max distance any deer I've taken has been about 30-40 yards, with a significant number of them dropping between 0-5 yards! ... that's meant to be the max distance [that they ran after the shot].

D_Hunter
05-22-2005, 11:42 AM
I use a very basic but effective set up. (whole setup..$120)

CVA Apollo hunter .50 cal.
3x9x40 scope
shooting
90 gr pyrodex
365 gr conical bullet.

Luv2hunteup
05-24-2005, 05:30 PM
54 cal favorite load
300gr 45 cal Hornady XTP Bullet over 95gr of Goex blackpowder, MMP Sabot, #11 CCI Cap

50 cal favorite load
220gr 40 cal PR Dead Center Bullet over 90gr Triple 7, MMP Sabot, Federal 209 Primer

But I'm always looking for a new favorite load. ;)

Sawcat
05-24-2005, 06:45 PM
Knight MK 85, Hornady 200 gr xtp, sabot, 100 grains pyrodex, Burris 3x9. Shoots like a dream, I have killed two deer slightly over 150 yards away and dropped them both. I've taken many others at closer range with similar results. I have shot out to 200 yards and shoot 4-6 inch groups, I love it. :cool:

BuckBuster
05-30-2005, 09:49 AM
Very interesting replies!Those of you who use sabots. how many shots can you shoot before the plastic starts fouling up your barrel?When I used sabots I had a hard time putting them down barrel after justs a few shots.I know you only need one to kill a deer,but at the range I like to shoot 10 sometimes especially when trying a new load.Thanks,By the way with Powerbelts,Its a dream to put them down the barrel.Surprised nobody has mentioned any thing about Powerbelt bullels in Michigan.

Sawcat
05-30-2005, 01:01 PM
I never have any problem with residue build up, I can shoot all day and only occasionally run a patch down the barrel. Years ago I began using Thompson's Natural lube 1000, it retards corrosion after firing, it lubricates the barrel making loading a breeze, and it softens the residue. I am not one of these guys who shoot 150 grains however, I shoot only 90-100 so my powder may be burning more completely thus leaving less residue in the barrel. I guess every 4-5 shots I run a patch lightly coated in lube and it loads great. And since I always follow the same proceedure my first and last shots are in my group, I don't have to "prime" the barrel as they say. After cleaning the barrel I run a patch of the lube and just leave it untill next time I shoot. Before shooting I run a dry patch or two, fire a couple of caps making sure I'm pushing wind, and then load the gun, I've never had a mis-fire and my gun's a MK-85 so I've been shooting it for 10 years now. Another benefit is that I don't have to hurry back to camp to clean my gun just because I fired it, using the lube I have fired the gun and not cleaned it for two or three days and it cleans up like brand new. I also rub a thin coat on the action and all exposed metal, no rust. I have fired well over a thousand rounds and she still looks new and shoots like it too! Good Luck:cool:

grizzly
06-01-2005, 01:02 PM
Thanks To my brother inlaw Ken. He upgraded and gave me this one. I use the 240gr xtp on top of 150 grains of pellets. Straight 4 power scope made buy bushnell. This gun has taken deer at 120 yards but most inside of 50 yards. Im really impressed with the knockdown power.

As for the powerbelts, they shot ok but not as good as the xtp's.

Grizzly.

TJO
06-01-2005, 01:37 PM
I shoot a Savage ML I, 250 gr. SST 46.5 grs. LIL'GUN or IMR 4759, @ 2600fps and really rocks the deer.

chad helsel
06-01-2005, 01:39 PM
i was shooting some decent groups with powerbelts 245 aerotip, 3 inch at 125 yards. with 150 777 pellets. i wasn't overly impressed with the knockdown power or bullet expansion. i shot two deer with it. dropped one but i hit him in the spine. the other was a quartering towards me at 30 yards shoulder shot and there was no blood trail and it went over 125 yards. the shot looked perfect.
and she wasn't a very big deer. i wasn't impressed at all. my dad shot one
the same day with my 20 guage and a 2 3/4 inch remington slugger in the
exact same spot and pretty much the same angle. She was 60 yards and 50 #'s bigger and she only went 25 yards.
I'm looking for advice on new bullets for this year.

Swamp Monster
06-01-2005, 01:42 PM
Remington 700, musket caps, 100 grain pyrodex pellets seated under 300 grain XTPs.

New TC Encore that I have yet to develop loads for but I'll start with .25acp conversion using small rifle primers and 100-150 grains pyrodex and some dead center bullets. I'll then try TC Shockwaves in 250 and 300 grains.

Diggdug
06-02-2005, 07:28 AM
;) TC Stainless Encore, 130 gr 777, 240 grain powerbelt aerotip.

archie holst
06-02-2005, 08:03 AM
TC Omega with 28 inch stainless barell, 150 grains 777, pushing the 300 grain TC Shock Wave Sabot.

rzdrmh
06-02-2005, 08:15 AM
Remington 700, musket caps, 100 grain pyrodex pellets seated under 300 grain XTPs.

New TC Encore that I have yet to develop loads for but I'll start with .25acp conversion using small rifle primers and 100-150 grains pyrodex and some dead center bullets. I'll then try TC Shockwaves in 250 and 300 grains.

swamp, go heavy with the dead centers. the 220 grain sabots that we tried from a knight disc elite didn't perform as well as other loads.

on a side note, what does PR have out now? have you seen the Vari-Flame small rifle primer adapter kit? supposed to work with "every 209 muzzleloader". Looks to me like brass 209 primer casings that can be primed with rifle primers? since the actual primer casing is the same dimensions as a 209 primer, it doesn't require any modification or new breech plug? check it out and tell me what you think - for $24.99 it might be the better choice than the .25 acp conversion.

http://www.prbullet.com/vf.htm

BuckBuster
06-04-2005, 07:17 AM
Very interesting replies!There is a lot of info to take in from many Knowledgable hunters.Only on a forum like this could you get such a variety of opinions.Very helpful for those of us who are always looking to improve our hunting.Thanks,AL

BuckBuster
06-05-2005, 02:24 PM
i was shooting some decent groups with powerbelts 245 aerotip, 3 inch at 125 yards. with 150 777 pellets. i wasn't overly impressed with the knockdown power or bullet expansion. i shot two deer with it. dropped one but i hit him in the spine. the other was a quartering towards me at 30 yards shoulder shot and there was no blood trail and it went over 125 yards. the shot looked perfect.
and she wasn't a very big deer. i wasn't impressed at all. my dad shot one
the same day with my 20 guage and a 2 3/4 inch remington slugger in the
exact same spot and pretty much the same angle. She was 60 yards and 50 #'s bigger and she only went 25 yards.
I'm looking for advice on new bullets for this year. Chad I agree with you on the bullet expansion on Powerbelt aerotip 245 gr.There isn't any.But you could try the 245 hollow point(Copper) or the 295 gr. hollow point lead Powerbelt.Just a suggestion.I haven't tried the lead one but have shot 2 nice bucks with hollow pt.copper powerbelt.!st one in spine at 140 yds,Big hole coming out.The other one at 90 yds.jumped when I squeezed trigger a little further back then I like but because of hitting power & a big exit hole I recovered him within 40 yds.Just an idea.

nky_bowhunter
06-06-2005, 09:31 AM
I think accuracy from a muzzleloader depends more on the gun than the bullet. I recently upgraded from my old T/C thunderhawk .54 to the new .45 T/C encore. The powerbelts shot amazingly well (cloverleaf groups at 100 yds) from the .54, but I can barely get a 3 inch group out of 'em in the .45!

I still use the .54 as a loaner for getting new guys into the sport or let people without a muzzleloader use it. My favorite load is 100 grains loose 777 topped off with the 348 gr copper plated powerbelt hollowpoint. EXCELLENT expansion and accuracy...it took a doe last winter at 30 yards, and the bullet didn't exit!!!

In the .45 encore, I use 150 grains 777 topped off with T/C's tiny little 155 grain super 45 XR sabot. They claim that load is getting out there at 2600+ fps....not sure I buy all that but it is FAST! It is very accurate, but I'm undecided on terminal performance. I've only harvested one deer with it, and the shot was head-on. There was virtually no penetration (the bullet hit the shoulder), but it darn near ripped a front leg off. It turned out OK, but I can't help but wonder if a heavier bullet would have done a better job. Any thoughts?

rzdrmh
06-06-2005, 09:42 AM
yes, a heavier bullet would make the difference. sectional density theory tells us that heavier weights in the same diameter will penetrate further - search on sectional density here to find a lot of information.

i witness a doe shot last year head on, through the brisket, with 220 grain .50 cal lead projectile, that not only left an impressive entrance wound, but ranged well past the thorax into the vicera.

your intutition seems correct to me - 155 grains is a little light for muzzleloading applications.

lumpy
06-06-2005, 12:59 PM
After messing with several loads and projectiles I have settled in to the Hornady SST 250 grain pushed by 100 grains of pyrodex out of mt 50 cal. optima.

Several of my buddies have switched after trying these also.
Have found nothing better out to 150 yards

BuckBuster
06-09-2005, 10:44 AM
;) TC Stainless Encore, 130 gr 777, 240 grain powerbelt aerotip. How do you like Stainless.My barrel on my TC Black Diamond is Blued.I shoot musket caps,But chamber seems to rust quickly even if I clean it right away.I do use TC's bore butter lube (1000).Also how do you like the powerbelt aerotip for hitting power , penetration & expansion?Just wondering!Anyone else have ideas on preventing rust? Could it be musket caps?Thanks, AL

deputy
06-09-2005, 10:52 AM
Ultimate with 200 grains of t7 pellets and a 300 sst, 15 inches of drop at 300yds and for big critters i use 250 grains of pellets and a 300 sst

:SHOCKED:

deputy
06-09-2005, 10:53 AM
tjo, not leagal to use during ml season though! is the problem there

twohats
06-09-2005, 11:40 AM
T/C Firehawk,powerbelt 295 gr.aerotips,100 gr. pyro. pellets,I have taken three deer with this setup.All three deer were shot from 30 to 40 yrd,s .All powerbelts expanded and fragmented . No shots passed through.The fragmentation caused massive internal injures.Two deer droped with in 20 yrd,s . One went 75 yd,s.

TJO
06-09-2005, 11:54 AM
deputy, that's why I use BP sub's you know the commercailly manufactured BP sub's.

deputy
06-09-2005, 01:10 PM
which ones! tjo

TJO
06-09-2005, 01:53 PM
When I have to I use BM 3 it seems to work pretty good. But smokeless is the way to go when ya can.

BuckBuster
06-09-2005, 06:12 PM
T/C Firehawk,powerbelt 295 gr.aerotips,100 gr. pyro. pellets,I have taken three deer with this setup.All three deer were shot from 30 to 40 yrd,s .All powerbelts expanded and fragmented . No shots passed through.The fragmentation caused massive internal injures.Two deer droped with in 20 yrd,s . One went 75 yd,s.TH,Sounds like your doing well with 295 gr. aerotip.I have some but i never used them other than at range.Will have to try them hunting.No luck with 245 gr aerotip as far as expansion.Although I've killed 3 deer in one season with them. TJO & Deputy what are you guys talking about?

Luv2hunteup
06-09-2005, 08:15 PM
TJO & Deputy what are you guys talking about?
TJO's favorite load uses smokeless powder which may not be used during the muzzleloader only season but may be used during the regular firearm season.

BP sub = blackpowder substitute such as triple 7, pyrodex and so on.

BuckBuster
06-09-2005, 09:10 PM
luv2hunteup,Thanks for the explanation makes more sense to me now.

BuckBuster
06-14-2005, 05:44 PM
I think accuracy from a muzzleloader depends more on the gun than the bullet. I recently upgraded from my old T/C thunderhawk .54 to the new .45 T/C encore. The powerbelts shot amazingly well (cloverleaf groups at 100 yds) from the .54, but I can barely get a 3 inch group out of 'em in the .45!

I still use the .54 as a loaner for getting new guys into the sport or let people without a muzzleloader use it. My favorite load is 100 grains loose 777 topped off with the 348 gr copper plated powerbelt hollowpoint. EXCELLENT expansion and accuracy...it took a doe last winter at 30 yards, and the bullet didn't exit!!!

I'm happy to see you had such good luck with your t/c thunderhawk & the 348 gr.powerbelt hollowpoint.I never thought of using that weight of bullet.Seems impressive.Have ever used Pyrodex powder?I'm also glad to see that alot of hunters in Michigan are using TC arms muzzleloaders.The factory is just south where I live in NH.Does anybody have any opinions on how they like their TC ML.Thanks.

BuckBuster
06-30-2005, 02:51 PM
TC Omega with 28 inch stainless barell, 150 grains 777, pushing the 300 grain TC Shock Wave Sabot.Archie,what kind of grouping are you getting with the 300 grain TC Shock Wave Sabot.Saw some in a local gun shop recently.They look neat!Has anyone else used them.They look like they would expand well.Thanks!

archie holst
07-01-2005, 10:16 AM
Al B. 1 inch groups at 100 yards no rest standing with a sling. As far as expansion I don't know. I can tell you the deer I harvested had the potential of jumping the creek over to someones private property. To avoid this I aimed for the front ball joint on all three. Each one was put down instantly. The 300 grain shock wave disentegrated itself and the ball joint into mainy little pieces and pullverized the insides of the deer. No exit wounds all energy went to turning the insides to Jello. Yes theere was some wasted meat in the front shoulder but that was intentional, I did not want them taking another step or leap and they did not.

rzdrmh
07-01-2005, 11:40 AM
Does anybody have any opinions on how they like their TC ML.Thanks.

Are you kidding???? After testing a number of muzzleloaders, and shouldering more, i'm convinced that the TC Omega is the definitive measuring stick for inline muzzleloaders today.

you might others that have a slight edge in certain aspects, but when considering things overall, the Omega is tough to beat.
- shoots very well
- great warranty
- easy cleanup
- zero blowback on the scope
- looks great
- etc, etc.

pure muzzleloader. now, if you could just get TC to put some of that fancy curly maple on the omega that A&H uses, i'd be in heaven.. :lol:

Swamp Monster
07-01-2005, 12:10 PM
. now, if you could just get TC to put some of that fancy curly maple on the omega that A&H uses, i'd be in heaven.. :lol:


A quick phone call to the TC Custom shop and you might just get your answer! Just hope today is payday!


Yeah, I don't think there is a better designed and built inline than the Omega.....the Encore is right there though.

rzdrmh
07-01-2005, 12:31 PM
now there's an idea, swamp..

yes, the encore is a great gun as well.. i wouldn't hestitate to purchase any TC muzzleloaders. they certainly speak well of american made products, and i'm willing to spend a little extra $$ to make sure they maintain that quality.

BuckBuster
07-01-2005, 01:53 PM
Al B. 1 inch groups at 100 yards no rest standing with a sling. As far as expansion I don't know. I can tell you the deer I harvested had the potential of jumping the creek over to someones private property. To avoid this I aimed for the front ball joint on all three. Each one was put down instantly. The 300 grain shock wave disentegrated itself and the ball joint into mainy little pieces and pullverized the insides of the deer. No exit wounds all energy went to turning the insides to Jello. Yes theere was some wasted meat in the front shoulder but that was intentional, I did not want them taking another step or leap and they did not.Archie,Great info!Makes me want to go out & buy some.Thanks! AL

BuckBuster
07-01-2005, 02:02 PM
rzdrmh & Swamp Monster,I'm happy that you guys enjoy your TC muzzleloaders.Here in NH we are very proud of this company.The Omega & Encore are very popular guns.Myself I own a Black Diamond 50 cal.Also a good in line ML.Thanks for your replies anyone else have an opinion on TC MLoaders.

montcalm
07-03-2005, 03:14 AM
I have no trouble killing deer with TC Hawken 50 cal.that I bought 30 years ago using a patched round ball and 90 gr. of 2f black powder.:evilsmile

BuckBuster
07-03-2005, 05:17 PM
I have no trouble killing deer with TC Hawken 50 cal.that I bought 30 years ago using a patched round ball and 90 gr. of 2f black powder.:evilsmileThat's Great!I have two hunting partners who use the same combo your speaking of & are really happy with it.My caplock is a TC Renagade .54 Cal.I liked the Renegade over the Hawken because it was less flashy.I also preferred shooting Maxi Balls,but I have to admit the round balls seemed to be a little more accurate.Anybody else still use a patched round ball?

454casull
07-06-2005, 09:03 AM
I have an old T/C scout with a 2-7 on it and in my hands it is the most accurate gun I own. Been using 105 grains of Pyrodex Select under a MMP black sabot with any 300 grain 45cal bullet I have hanging around. Hard cast, hollows or soft points it does not matter just has to be 300 grains; think it is the slower twist. Going to try some triple 7 this year, getting tired of the smell and the clean up. What is the 777 (ff - fff)equivalent to Select?????

twohand
07-06-2005, 11:23 AM
It's to be used as my main deer gun, would like to get a better scope,though. Any suggestions? :chillin:

The only scope there is.....Leupold

deputy
07-06-2005, 11:31 AM
actually leupold is ok but overpriced, look to burris,nikon, zeiss conquest line o mueller or bushnell elite series.

BuckBuster
08-02-2005, 01:36 PM
actually leupold is ok but overpriced, look to burris,nikon, zeiss conquest line o mueller or bushnell elite series.Deputy,you seem very knowledgeable with scopes.If you could choose only one scope for muzzleloading what would it be?What brand & power would you recommend for typical whitetail deer hunting?If anyone else has some input on this topic,please feel to give your opinions.Thanks, AL

deputy
08-02-2005, 02:46 PM
depending on your preference i like the 2x7 range for most hunting. a good or burris or the elite 3200 are great. i really have come to like the mueller multi shot 2x7. i wont own any more leupolds for the money it is hard to go wrong with any of these i have mentioned would be great choices most under 200 bucks. and will offer more than enough features i like the 3200 series it is a great value right now on my omega i have a 2x7 mueller multi shot i love it not bad fo r 160 bucks

BuckBuster
08-02-2005, 05:18 PM
Deputy,Thanks for your input.Very interesting!

deputy
08-02-2005, 05:37 PM
Al, to be honest i have my choice of optics at any time i want, i own sawrvoskis, I own muellers, bushnell elites 3200/4200. i had a zeiss conquest gave up the ghost on shot number 19 from a slug gun,. My personal favorites right now are a nikon 2.5x10-50 30mm tube on my one of my ultimates the other has a swarvoski on it, the omega has a mueller, and a few slug guns i have have muellers as well. i also know of another tv show chasing the dream
that are using ultimates topped with muellers scopes. again depends on price point but for under 200 i like those listed earlier.

burris, mueller, and the elites,

but as far as power goes the 2x7 is a great all around glass offers a good field of view, and good long range on animals 250 and under yds

Slippin'
08-02-2005, 09:50 PM
I love shooting and hunting with my smoke pole. Took the biggest deer of my life last year with my T/C Black Diamond 50cal.

Powerbelt 245gr aerotip
110gr of pyrodex
12pt -double lung @ 63yds
On the wall and in the freezer(although I'm running low - I can almost smell the bow woods)

BuckBuster
08-04-2005, 10:26 AM
I love shooting and hunting with my smoke pole. Took the biggest deer of my life last year with my T/C Black Diamond 50cal.

Powerbelt 245gr aerotip
110gr of pyrodex
12pt -double lung @ 63yds
On the wall and in the freezer(although I'm running low - I can almost smell the bow woods)Congrats on taking that nice 12 pt.Your using the same gun & load that i use except I use a 100 gr. of Pyrodex.2-50 (Pyrodex.@-50) gr. pellets.Do you use loose or pellets.So you seem happy with the Powerbelt 245 gr. aerotip.That's good!Good luck with your hunting this fall.AL

BuckBuster
08-04-2005, 10:33 AM
Al, to be honest i have my choice of optics at any time i want, i own sawrvoskis, I own muellers, bushnell elites 3200/4200. i had a zeiss conquest gave up the ghost on shot number 19 from a slug gun,. My personal favorites right now are a nikon 2.5x10-50 30mm tube on my one of my ultimates the other has a swarvoski on it, the omega has a mueller, and a few slug guns i have have muellers as well. i also know of another tv show chasing the dream
that are using ultimates topped with muellers scopes. again depends on price point but for under 200 i like those listed earlier.

burris, mueller, and the elites,

but as far as power goes the 2x7 is a great all around glass offers a good field of view, and good long range on animals 250 and under ydsDeputy, I've been looking at the Bushnell 3200 elite with rainguard.Is this scope overrated or is it good in the rain.Thanks,AL

kumma
08-04-2005, 02:17 PM
Deputy, I've been looking at the Bushnell 3200 elite with rainguard.Is this scope overrated or is it good in the rain.Thanks,AL

Ill chime in since I have a 3200 1.5-5 i believe on my go to rifle, im very pleased with it. nice and clear. Never had any rain so i cant say if its worth it or not. I changed when a burris scope fogged up a couple of times on me. I have the firefly reticle, not sure it made a difference or not when I took my deer last year around 5pm. All in all I like it and will purchase another one when needed.

backstrap bill
08-04-2005, 04:51 PM
Cva 50 Cal

245 Grain Powerbelt Bullet
150 Grain Magnum Load Yeah!:)

deputy
08-04-2005, 05:02 PM
rain guard is very nice

Luv2hunteup
08-04-2005, 08:33 PM
I can't speak for the elite 3200 rain guard but it works great on the elite 4200. You will still have the rain droplets but you can see through them.

stream wader
08-04-2005, 09:21 PM
remington 700 50 cal 110 grains of bp 275 remington sabots burris 2.5 scope use it for bp and shotgun season great success with that combo.

BuckBuster
08-05-2005, 09:02 AM
kumma,deputy & luv2hunteup:Thanks for your input on Bushnell Elite's Rainguard.I think we all learn from other hunters experience.Getting set up with the best equipment & practicing with it will help us in the moment of truth when we get that chosen animal in our sights & down that animal with a clean shot.Thanks AL

BuckBuster
08-08-2005, 10:14 AM
Cva 50 Cal

245 Grain Powerbelt Bullet
150 Grain Magnum Load Yeah!:)Do you shoot Aerotip or Hollow Point?Do you think shooting 150 gr. of powder makes a difference?The Powerbelt is probably the most accurate non sabot on the market.It loads nice & you have the benefit of a full caliber projectile which retains it's energy downrange.Any more thoughts on this topic?

Swamp Monster
08-08-2005, 10:37 AM
www.Natchezss.com has the 3x9x40 Elite 3200 with Raingaurd for $169. That is a lot of glass for that kind of Money.....you can get the firefly reticle for $189 I think. You won't find better prices on these scopes anywhere else.

I have an older Bausch and Lomb Elite 3000 2x7 (These are the same as the newly named Bushnell 3200's without rainguard ofcourse). This is great glass in a nice compact package and has enough power for most any big game hunting situation. I think the 4200 series has arguably the best actuall glass in anything under $700 range...and they can be purchased for a little over $300 from Natchez.

I'm also a big Burris fan as well...their whole line up is top notch and priced more competetively than most.

BuckBuster
08-09-2005, 01:30 PM
Swamp Monster,Thanks for info but i went to site you suggested,i couldn't find the scope you talked about on sale for $169.Thanks,Al

Swamp Monster
08-09-2005, 01:45 PM
Thats not a sale price...thats their regular price. NAtchez does not advertise their prices for teh 3200 and 4200 series scopes...you must call them and ask about the prices on those models. I just called last week and was quoted that price for the 3x9x40 Elite 3200 with Rainguard...and fast focus eyepiece. Go back to the web site and get the 1 800 # and give them a call.
BTW, many of their prices on optics are the best you can find. I have no afiliation with them, just spend money with them and have had nothing but great service.
Burris Fulfield II's $169 or $199 with spotting scope or Binocular......both deals are nice as well.

As much as I like BPS and Cabelas, I would never buy optics from either.

BuckBuster
08-10-2005, 10:43 AM
Swamp Monster, Again thanks for info!

BuckBuster
02-14-2006, 08:05 AM
SwampMonster,I did buy a Bushnell Elite 3200 with Rainguard,very clear optics.It helped me shoot 3 deer this past season.I agree it is worth the money.Anybody else have an opinion on scopes or projectiles & loads?Thanks AL:lol:

selvig88
02-14-2006, 09:41 PM
I shoot a t/c omega laminate, stainless. I was shooting 245 powerbelt aero tips until I shot a deer with one. No blood, very poor bullet performance. I put a 25acp conversion breech plug in and started shooting 250 shockwaves on top of 100gr. 777. Sub 1" 3 shot groups at 100yds out of the vise. Shot a doe at 110 yds. last day of doe season, plenty of blood and complete pass thru vitals. Very happy with accuracy and performance.

JAS
02-15-2006, 10:37 PM
Mine is an Optima Pro 50 cal. Bushnell Elite 1.5-6 or something close to it. 245 gr Powerbelt aerotip. I want to try some Shockwaves but have not made it to the range yet. 100gr of 777. I can put the Powerbelts right on the money at 100.

JAS

BuckBuster
02-17-2006, 08:08 PM
I shoot a t/c omega laminate, stainless. I was shooting 245 powerbelt aero tips until I shot a deer with one. No blood, very poor bullet performance. I put a 25acp conversion breech plug in and started shooting 250 shockwaves on top of 100gr. 777. Sub 1" 3 shot groups at 100yds out of the vise. Shot a doe at 110 yds. last day of doe season, plenty of blood and complete pass thru vitals. Very happy with accuracy and performance.Selvig88.I agree with you on the powerbelt aerotips 245 gr.First 3 deer i killed with them i had mixed results.First one was running at 30 yds.The hit was a little back & low,but the exit hole was same size as entrance.No expansion.But i did have a blood trail.After giving it about 2 hours to lay down.I started to track it.It jumped out of it's bed.No shot.I gave it more time & found it dead.Next one was a 80 yd. standing shot.Dropped in it's tracks.3rd one was 136 yds.standing dropped in it's tracks.So i guess you have to come to your own conclusions with your own experience with them.I now use the powerbelt 245 gr. hollow point.I've only shot 1 deer with it at 140 yds. but i did like expansion.Big exit hole.But there not as accurate as aerotips on a consistent basis.T/C 250 Shockwaves have also gotten my interests.Al

Al, L
02-20-2006, 03:59 PM
For my newly configured T/C Hawkins I was shooting T/C break away sabots,Hornaday 451 HP/XTP 230 gr, 80 gr. APP with musket caps. Horriable combo other than groups at 50 yards with shooting sticks. The Hawkins Hammer does not work well with musket caps. The APP doesn't light up well in a side lock except when you remember to tap the carge to the fire channel side.

Next session will be with 80 gr. trip 7 and #11 caps.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pbf3ae303a4f9e15268325f6271e6592c/f091c9df.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/Dapeepshow.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/twotracker/fullpagetarget1-16-06.jpg

:D Al

BuckBuster
02-23-2006, 01:37 PM
For my newly configured T/C Hawkins I was shooting T/C break away sabots,Hornaday 451 HP/XTP 230 gr, 80 gr. APP with musket caps. Horriable combo other than groups at 50 yards with shooting sticks. The Hawkins Hammer does not work well with musket caps. The APP doesn't light up well in a side lock except when you remember to tap the carge to the fire channel side.

Next session will be with 80 gr. trip 7 and #11 caps.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/oldgrumpy/Dapeepshow.jpg


:D AlAl, I have a T/C Renegade .54 cal.I"ve shot 450 gr. Maxiballs with 90gr.Pyrodex powder & always had good luck with that combo out to 100 yds.I noticed your peep sight,I put one on about 14 years ago.Liked it,but because of it's location on receiver sometimes when i would try to cock caplock,i would accidently pull on peep.This was when i needed to shoot quickly at a deer.Of course once i got use to it i wa fine.As far as caps go .I use no.11's but the hot ones,you also need a different nipple.Thanks AL

Al, L
02-24-2006, 05:13 PM
I love that peep site on the Hawkins. Inever was able to shoot it that well with iron sights even when I was young and could focus on a bunch of objects at the same time.
I have inlines to but still like to blow smoke with that old Hawkins some times.

:D Al

BuckBuster
02-25-2006, 07:36 AM
I love that peep site on the Hawkins. Inever was able to shoot it that well with iron sights even when I was young and could focus on a bunch of objects at the same time.
I have inlines to but still like to blow smoke with that old Hawkins some times.

:D AlDitto that,as accurate as my T/C in-line is with a scope,i love to take my T/C Renegade Caplock out, with peepsight.It just feels more traditional,thus adds a challenge to hunt,but is also very accurate under 100 yds. AL

BigGameHunter
02-25-2006, 04:52 PM
I use a 58 Cal smoothbore Flintlock. These are the best pics I could find online. Mine is right handed not left like the picture. I haven't had the chance to take anything with it yet, but my Dad has taken a Black Bear with it. I plan on using it for Turkey this spring.

http://www.caywoodguns.com/left%20Wilson%20full%20view%20left%20May.jpg

BuckBuster
02-26-2006, 07:00 AM
I use a 58 Cal smoothbore Flintlock. These are the best pics I could find online. Mine is right handed not left like the picture. I haven't had the chance to take anything with it yet, but my Dad has taken a Black Bear with it. I plan on using it for Turkey this spring.

http://www.caywoodguns.com/left%20Wilson%20full%20view%20left%20May.jpgNow that's a real traditional muzzle-loader.If you deer hunt with what kind load are you intending on using,a ball+patch?I was just wondering how much a 58 cal. round ball would weigh?Good luck with your turkey hunting!What kind of load would you use for that?Thanks AL

BigGameHunter
02-26-2006, 09:59 AM
I got this from the Caywood website for loads for turkey, and this is what I plan on trying:

Using your shot dipper as a powder measure, pour down a set amount ( example; 1 1/8 oz of volume for a 20 ga.), then seat 3-4 overshot cards on the powder to pack it and push out any air. Then take a single overshot card and push it down the bore approx. 3 inches. Now, take that same volume of shot, as used for the powder measuring, and drop it down onto the card where it will be visible. Then take a dipper full of cornmeal muffin mix ( not straight corn meal) and drop onto the shot. Tap the side of the barrel ( keep head and eyes from in front of muzzle!) until the shot works it's way to the top and the cornmeal has worked down into the shot charge. This will provide a buffering element so that when the powder ignites, the shot will push against the meal not the other shot pellets. Then place one overshot card on the shot load and seat it on the powder. The reason to use the muffin mix and not the straight corn meal is that there are sugars and fats added to the mixture that aren't present in the straight corn meal. Apparently, these pack somewhat and allow the charge to be bunched up for short distance from the muzzle, helping to give you a great pattern. We recommend using no. 7 or 7 1/2 size shot for turkeys for the pattern density. These size pellets will penetrate a gobbler's skull at 26-28 yards which is about as far as one should shoot at a turkey with a cylinder bore gun anyway. If this load does not give you a good pattern, try using one less increment of powder as thrown by your shot charger, so that you are using just a little more shot . If you are using choked guns, you can go to the bigger shot sizes. By all means experiment with your gun to see which loads pattern best for THAT PARTICULAR GUN. Sometimes, a gun will throw a better pattern when LESS shot and powder are used. And by using the corn muffin mix when you shoot a turkey, the bird is already smoked and breaded and ready for the frying pan when you pick it up.

As far as loads for deer, there are several ways to load, bor the most accuracy I use a .565 round ball and a patch rammed down over about 100 grains of Goex Black Powder. You can also use a larger ball .570-.575 and skip the patch, but need to be carefull the ball doesnt roll forward or else :SHOCKED:. Its fun to shoot. The other muzzleloader I have is a 75 Caliber Brown Bess(below), My dad and I do some historical reenacting. He has a 60 cal Trade gun similar to the one above as well as a brown bess too. He took a doe this year with the Bess.


http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/img/ArmsPreview/S.260.jpg

BuckBuster
02-26-2006, 01:00 PM
I got this from the Caywood website for loads for turkey, and this is what I plan on trying:

Using your shot dipper as a powder measure, pour down a set amount ( example; 1 1/8 oz of volume for a 20 ga.), then seat 3-4 overshot cards on the powder to pack it and push out any air. Then take a single overshot card and push it down the bore approx. 3 inches. Now, take that same volume of shot, as used for the powder measuring, and drop it down onto the card where it will be visible. Then take a dipper full of cornmeal muffin mix ( not straight corn meal) and drop onto the shot. Tap the side of the barrel ( keep head and eyes from in front of muzzle!) until the shot works it's way to the top and the cornmeal has worked down into the shot charge. This will provide a buffering element so that when the powder ignites, the shot will push against the meal not the other shot pellets. Then place one overshot card on the shot load and seat it on the powder. The reason to use the muffin mix and not the straight corn meal is that there are sugars and fats added to the mixture that aren't present in the straight corn meal. Apparently, these pack somewhat and allow the charge to be bunched up for short distance from the muzzle, helping to give you a great pattern. We recommend using no. 7 or 7 1/2 size shot for turkeys for the pattern density. These size pellets will penetrate a gobbler's skull at 26-28 yards which is about as far as one should shoot at a turkey with a cylinder bore gun anyway. If this load does not give you a good pattern, try using one less increment of powder as thrown by your shot charger, so that you are using just a little more shot . If you are using choked guns, you can go to the bigger shot sizes. By all means experiment with your gun to see which loads pattern best for THAT PARTICULAR GUN. Sometimes, a gun will throw a better pattern when LESS shot and powder are used. And by using the corn muffin mix when you shoot a turkey, the bird is already smoked and breaded and ready for the frying pan when you pick it up.

As far as loads for deer, there are several ways to load, bor the most accuracy I use a .565 round ball and a patch rammed down over about 100 grains of Goex Black Powder. You can also use a larger ball .570-.575 and skip the patch, but need to be carefull the ball doesnt roll forward or else :SHOCKED:. Its fun to shoot. The other muzzleloader I have is a 75 Caliber Brown Bess(below), My dad and I do some historical reenacting. He has a 60 cal Trade gun similar to the one above as well as a brown bess too. He took a doe this year with the Bess.


http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/img/ArmsPreview/S.260.jpg
Boy,that's some pretty interesting info &some nice guns.I could read about this topic all day.Regards,AL

BuckBuster
03-05-2006, 12:56 PM
I'm not surprise that with all the great in lines out there,that we haven't heard much about Caplocks & type of projectiles use in them.I have a T/C Renegade .54 Cal.I haven't used it years because i now have a T/C Black Diamond .50 Cal. in-line.When i used my Renegade, i had confidence in using 450 gr. Maxi-balls..If i hit a deer with this load,they went down.I used 90gr. of Pyrodex.Although in-lines are great,i feel caplocks & Flintlocks are more traditional.Anyone else have any thoughts or opinions on this?

sniper's mojo
03-05-2006, 03:26 PM
Type in a thread search for powerbelt bullets and you will likely get more opinions than you want on it. In my experience no penetration and crap accuracy. That being said every gun shoots differently so try all of them and dont take anyone elses word for it. I shoot a 26 inch barrel on a cva, with 100 grains pyrodex and a .44 caliber hornady xtp sabot. Deadly accurate to 125 yds.

Jumbo
03-05-2006, 04:31 PM
Shooting a Rem. in-line, musket nipple, 2,.50gr. pyd. pellets, with a .300 gr. Hornt , X T P,,.44 jsp, blows through at 85-125 yds, 125 yds hold 2" high, now shooting .300/ .45-X T P, no gane taken yet, but sure they'll work~~~~><>...Jumbo..!:chillin:

MisterEd
03-09-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm pushing .50 cal. 245 gr. AeroTip Powerbelts with three Triple Seven pellets. I'm not concerned about expansion. They start out pretty big. They reason deer don't drop for PowerBelts like they do for my teeny weeny 6mm centerfire bullets is the difference in velocity. If a muzzleloader bullet was constructed light enough to reliably expand it would be too easily stopped by a shoulder bone.

ENCORE
03-10-2006, 07:37 PM
I'm pushing .50 cal. 245 gr. AeroTip Powerbelts with three Triple Seven pellets. I'm not concerned about expansion. They start out pretty big. They reason deer don't drop for PowerBelts like they do for my teeny weeny 6mm centerfire bullets is the difference in velocity. If a muzzleloader bullet was constructed light enough to reliably expand it would be too easily stopped by a shoulder bone.
I can tell you're hunting in Ionia County;)
I've got 240 down that way and I understand why you want a flat shooting muzz. Most of my shooting is between 120 and 175 yds.
I'm using an Encore, Mike Bellm - 2# trigger, 50 cal. with 130 grs. pyrodex and the 200 gr. Shockwave bullet. Most of the shooters around me have reduced their bullet weight with the increase in velocity while using mag. loads. On average, there's about 28 taken off the property each year, with all but usually around 4 taken with with muzzleloaders. The approx. 4 are taken by a friend's wife who shoots a shotgun.
We practice our own style of deer management that works excellent. I passed on 6 bucks opening day, one other buddy passed 4 and another passed on 2.

Nimrod
03-11-2006, 03:59 PM
I have an Encore and like it very well. I shoot 150gr Goex cartridge BP, 300gr sst, cci 400 rifle primer, floated the barrel and did the trigger to 3#. I have a 3-9 Burris Ballistic-Plex. Drilled a doe at 150yd. I have shot 200yd and kept it inside an 8" circle. I plan on doing lots more shooting with the 300gr XTP and Knite sabots and some 3f.

Might I say there is some fine pics of some smoke poles.

45/70fan
03-11-2006, 05:04 PM
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Fisherman_48768/MODENAHAWKEN54CAL.jpg54 Cal. Modena Hawken with .535 pure lead round ball, .017 patch and 100 gr 2Fg black powder
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a149/Fisherman_48768/FLINTLOCKFULLLENGTHVIEW.jpg

Pennsylvania long rifle, 50 cal flinter. .495 pure lead round ball, .015 patch and 90 gr 2Fg black powder.
Both rifles have taken their share of deer, a bear or two and an elk with the flinter. Get close to the game by being better stalker and placing shot properly I've never found it necessary to use saboted bullets fired from a bolt action glass scoped modern muzzle loader. I'm sorta partial to using rifles I've built too and knowing both my limitation as well as the firearms.

BuckBuster
03-19-2006, 09:40 AM
Type in a thread search for powerbelt bullets and you will likely get more opinions than you want on it. In my experience no penetration and crap accuracy. That being said every gun shoots differently so try all of them and dont take anyone elses word for it. I shoot a 26 inch barrel on a cva, with 100 grains pyrodex and a .44 caliber hornady xtp sabot. Deadly accurate to 125 yds.I agree with you on that every gun is different,&don't take anyones word for it.1st as far as penetration & accuracy go.I disagree with you.In my T/C 50 cal, Black Diamond,The 245 gr. aerotip Powerbelt is very accurate out to 150 yards.As far as penetration.It depends where animal is hit.I've shot deer behind shoulder & it has gone right thru.Hit them in shoulder & it stays in body & deer goes down.So i believe you don't have much for experience &that you just like to shoot your mouth off typing on a computer.Just my opinion!I do believe what you did say about your CVA &hornady xtp sabot.

don
03-19-2006, 09:54 AM
45 cal.TC Encore, 275 grain Powerbelts with 100 grains Triple 7 powder. Has never let me down.

BuckBuster
03-22-2006, 07:47 AM
I'm pushing .50 cal. 245 gr. AeroTip Powerbelts with three Triple Seven pellets. I'm not concerned about expansion. They start out pretty big. They reason deer don't drop for PowerBelts like they do for my teeny weeny 6mm centerfire bullets is the difference in velocity. If a muzzleloader bullet was constructed light enough to reliably expand it would be too easily stopped by a shoulder bone.Your statement makes alot of sense.:yeahthat:

ENCORE
03-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Might I ask what the definition for "reliably expand" is?

kroppe
03-22-2006, 06:54 PM
Another vote for flat trajectory. This means small caliber, light bullet with max (for the bullet) powder load. I'm not maxed out on powder, but the load I shoot is comfortable and has done the job every time it's been called on. 175gr .357 cal saboted bullet in a .45 cal rifle with 100gr of powder. Zero'ed for 100yds. Works for me.

BuckBuster
07-13-2006, 03:31 PM
Another vote for flat trajectory. This means small caliber, light bullet with max (for the bullet) powder load. I'm not maxed out on powder, but the load I shoot is comfortable and has done the job every time it's been called on. 175gr .357 cal saboted bullet in a .45 cal rifle with 100gr of powder. Zero'ed for 100yds. Works for me.I was wondering,do you hunt with this gun or just target shoot.I'm not trying to be a wise guy here,just wondering..45 caliber seems a little small for deer.You must have to hit deer perfectly with it to be successful.I know with a flat trajectory that makes it easier.I only know of 1 guy who hunted with a .45 cal muzzle loader. He hit a nice buck with it but had to chase him for hours finally caught up to him & finished him off.He is an excellent shot.I don't remember exacly where he hit him,But the bullet didn't do the job he expected.I know i'm opening up a can of worms here,but he did get rid of the gun.A 100 gr. of powder is probably the difference here.I believe he used 70 & i know he didn't use a sabot.Any comments on this are welcome!

glockman55
07-13-2006, 04:08 PM
I was wondering,do you hunt with this gun or just target shoot.I'm not trying to be a wise guy here,just wondering..45 caliber seems a little small for deer.You must have to hit deer perfectly with it to be successful.I know with a flat trajectory that makes it easier.I only know of 1 guy who hunted with a .45 cal muzzle loader. He hit a nice buck with it but had to chase him for hours finally caught up to him & finished him off.He is an excellent shot.I don't remember exacly where he hit him,But the bullet didn't do the job he expected.I know i'm opening up a can of worms here,but he did get rid of the gun.A 100 gr. of powder is probably the difference here.I believe he used 70 & i know he didn't use a sabot.Any comments on this are welcome!

BULLET PLACEMENT!! More important than size, Did I say that ...size doesn't matter:lol: I shoot a TC Encore in 50 cal. 300 gr TC Shock Wave sabots, 100 gr powder, 150 gr powder if I'm hunting open feilds, but that load kicks my a@#, but I think a 45 cal. can do the trick in the right hands.

BuckBuster
07-13-2006, 06:56 PM
BULLET PLACEMENT!! More important than size, Did I say that ...size doesn't matter:lol: I shoot a TC Encore in 50 cal. 300 gr TC Shock Wave sabots, 100 gr powder, 150 gr powder if I'm hunting open feilds, but that load kicks my a@#, but I think a 45 cal. can do the trick in the right hands.I agree with you about bullet placement.I shoot aTC Black Diamond 50 cal.with 240 gr. Powerbelt 100 gr.powder.I tried 150.Too much kick for the benefit.Very accurate.But with my TC Renegade 54 cal. Caplock.454 gr.Maxiball,You don't always have to hit a deer perfectly.Even if your off a little.The deer is going down period.It hits hard!!!!!That's the difference between a.45 & say a 54 cal.

glockman55
07-13-2006, 08:10 PM
I agree with you about bullet placement.I shoot aTC Black Diamond 50 cal.with 240 gr. Powerbelt 100 gr.powder.I tried 150.Too much kick for the benefit.Very accurate.But with my TC Renegade 54 cal. Caplock.454 gr.Maxiball,You don't always have to hit a deer perfectly.Even if your off a little.The deer is going down period.It hits hard!!!!!That's the difference between a.45 & say a 54 cal.


I totally agree on the 54cal, I had a T/C Hawken 54 cal. I shot the same load, 454 maxi ball, They shot well in the slow twist, 1 in 66, 28" barrel, Sure did a number on the Deer, I shot one at 130 yds. went through both shoulder blades, didn't have to track it too far.:lol: Had to get a lighter gun, I had a hard time lugging it around all day.
One thing I did like about the Powerbelt's is they load easier than the T/C Shock Wave I'm using now in my Encore.

Shop Rat
07-13-2006, 09:37 PM
I shoot a t/c encore. 100 grains of pyrodex (pellets) 260 grain cabelas dead center. I am happy with the results on 6 deer so far. Good blood trails, most of them had pass throughs even with a double lung and one shoulder, or shoulder first and double lung. I am looking into 300 grain dc and also 260 grain platinum tip. I think I can do a little better.

My hunting buddy has almost a perfect setup that I am looking into. He has a t/c omega, pistol primer (25acp), 150 grains of jim shockey brand powder and winchester platinum tips. He shoots awesome groups at 100 Meters. 5 shots within 2". Also, he has the new Nikon Omega scope.

The guys that I hunt with that shot powerbelts are switching because of poor penetration, poor blood trails. Take one and hit it with a hammer, they are very soft. The "copper clad" is thinner than a sheet of paper. I witnessed my brother shoot a doe at 40 yards. The deer ran off in the snow, no blood trail. It ran almost 100 yards with a shot behind the shoulder. The bullet flattened into a coin and did not even touch the other side of the ribs. We tracked the deer in the snow and found it with maybe 2 or 3 drops total.

don
07-14-2006, 02:06 AM
As with any projectile,placement is key as stated. I have had no problems with my .45 cal Encore.I have taken 8 deer with it so far out to 135 yards and none required tracking over 50 yards.

ENCORE
07-14-2006, 06:54 AM
One thing I did like about the Powerbelt's is they load easier than the T/C Shock Wave I'm using now in my Encore.

Glockman55,
Most shooters have the same problem loading the 300 gr. Shock Wave (in Encores). Try shooting the 200 gr. Shock Wave. The 200 gr. will load much easier and will shoot flatter and have a little more velocity. When I first tried the 300 gr. Shock Wave and zeroed the rifle, then switched to the 200 gr., the 200 gr. shot about 3" higher. You'll most likely be shooting higher and have to readjust your scope also.
You'll have no problem with the 200 gr. on deer. I've shot many with that load out to 140 yds. and had complete pass thrus. I've tried many a bullet type in 30 years of hunting with a muzz. I settled on this one with this 50 cal. Encore.
I noticed one of your other posts about recoil. You can help reduce the "felt" recoil with your Encore buy using one of the Sims recoil pad. Cablea's has them and they are made to fit the Encore or Omega. Now, its not going to eliminate muzzle jump, but they sure help with the recoil.
If you want to make that rifle shoot better, try this site:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php
I had the premimum trigger job done and I'm very pleased with it. I now have a trigger that I can control, vs one that controls me.

Personally, with my expierence and a good number of friends also, I'd keep away from the Powerbelts. I'm not saying that the Shock Wave bullet is the best, as each rifle shoots bullets different. I know of at least a dozen shooters that have tried the Powerbelts, but ALL have switched to a different bullet of some type.

BuckBuster
07-22-2006, 01:43 PM
I was looking at the TC Omega.Does anyone out there have one.If so how do you like it.Thanks AL

ENCORE
07-23-2006, 09:04 AM
Al,
I've got a number of friends "down below" that use the Omega and love the rifle. I don't believe you can go wrong with it. Its just a matter of finding a bullet that is consistent, as with any rifle......;)

BuckBuster
07-23-2006, 02:04 PM
Encore,Thanks for the info!You're right about the right bullet for the right gun.Do you know what your friends are shooting out of their Omegas.Just wondering!!!.

ENCORE
07-23-2006, 08:56 PM
Al,
Most have switched to the Shock Wave bullet of one weight or the other. Most generally, the one that loads the easiest. One guy is still a "die hard" XTP shooter and shoots as straight as anybody.
They all at one time, tried to shoot the Power Belts. One of the guys swore by them, until he missed a nice buck, then took the rifle home to his range and found out what the bullets were actually doing. I'm pretty sure that he switched to the Barnes bullet. By the way, he volunteered to eat crow :lol:
I've had tremendous luck with the Shock Wave. I shoot the 200 gr., which is much easier to load than the 250's or 300's in my Encore. Considerable difference in drop between the 300 gr and the 200 gr too.
You won't go wrong with a Omega. I retired from GM and knew many a muzz hunter. Those with Omega's were ALL extremely happy with the rifle.
Best of luck on your choice.....

Swamp Monster
07-24-2006, 10:29 AM
Yep, you can't go wrong with the Omega! Everybody that isn't interested in a budget priced muzzleloader is buying the Omega...so much so that Knight was forced to quickly make some changes to their Revolution model and lower the prices accross the board by almost $100!! TC is putting a big hurt on Knight and unless they come up with something to gain back market share, they are in for a long road.
Buy the Omega of your choice and never look back!

rzdrmh
07-25-2006, 05:56 AM
there are no tight fitting bullets, only tight bores.

in a 50 cal, you're using a 45 cal bullet and sabot. hornady makes a .451/.452 diameter XTP. they also make a .458 interlock.

the sabot makes the difference.

and you want it tight. very tight.

Knight
07-25-2006, 07:35 AM
A little "bore butter" on the outside of each of my 300 gr Shockwaves makes them slip down the barrel very easy. Without it, they are a pain in the rear.

It is amazing how big of a hole they put in a deer's lungs. I have never had an easier tracking job than with the two does I shot last year with my 300 gr Shockwaves. However, both shots were perfect double lung pass throughs.

rzdrmh
07-25-2006, 08:50 AM
bore butter compromises the ballistics of your muzzleloader, imo. it certainly can affect the speed of the projectile. and it certainly just adds to the junk you've got to clean out of the barrel. a tight fitting bullet might be the only advantage of bore butter. but there are far too many disadvantages for me to use.

proper sabots are the key. that might mean not using the sabots shipped with the bullets, and getting a recommendation from MMP as to the proper sabot.

Sampsons_owner
07-25-2006, 10:03 AM
Knight mk 85 predator stainless. 260 grain lead knight bullet. 90 grains 2f. Less than a inch at 100 yards. S

Knight
07-26-2006, 07:10 AM
At first, I was very skeptical of the bore butter. I did a lot of research before I used it. Many people and articles said, "do not use it."

However, at the prodding of my father-in-law I did use it. I have not noticed any change in ballistics. The sabot is a lot easier to load. My sabots were not impossible to load before, they just took a couple extra seconds and effort.

I have actually noticed that my barrel is easier to clean as well. With or without it I have been shooting cloverleaf groupings at 100 yards, in the bullseye. Bore butter works for me. Maybe over a longer period of time I will notice negative effects. So far it has only helped me, as far as I am concerned.

Back to the original topic, I use 300 grain shockwaves, 100 grains of American Pioneer, in my CVA Wolf .50 caliber magnum.

BuckBuster
09-16-2006, 07:20 PM
I used it , i didn't like it.It didn't do what it said it would.Just my 2 cents!!

Sargeyork
09-18-2006, 03:46 AM
So far I am using 130 Grains of 777 Pellets and a 348 Grain Hollow Point Powerbelt. Only taken one deer with this at 140 Yards, deer spun around at the shot then tried to walk and fell down and couldn't get back up. By the time I reloaded my CVA Staghorn Magnum and got over there to the deer it was stone dead. No exit wound but when I opened the deer up it was right full of blood in chest cavity and looked like a grenade or bomb went off inside making identification of the shredded remains inside a job for CSI. Very happy with this combination.:D

BuckBuster
09-20-2006, 02:20 PM
Wow.a 348gr. hollowpoint Powerbelt!The largest i ever shot was a 295gr hollow pt. Powerbelt with a 100 grs. of powder(Pyrodex)

Frantz
09-20-2006, 03:15 PM
I use Remington .54 Cal 303Gr JHP, core lokt. A .44 bullet in a .54 sabot. On my 50 cal I use Hornady .50 sabots with a .45 in a 300 XTP Mag. A JHP as well.

Oops, I use 3-50 pyrodex pellets with the .50 and 2-50 with the .54 cal.

elvis
09-20-2006, 03:47 PM
Traditions lightning .50, 295 powerbelts, 2x50 grain pellets

BuckBuster
09-25-2006, 06:56 PM
Traditions lightning .50, 295 powerbelts, 2x50 grain pelletsAre the powerbelts aerotips or hollowpoints?Just wondering!

bucks-n-trout
09-26-2006, 02:59 PM
In my T/C Hawken - 90 grns of black powder , 385 grn Great Plains conical,
devastating inside 100 yds.

In line - 135 grns of 777 , 300 grn SST, great load out to 200 yds, very accurate !

BuckBuster
05-27-2009, 06:39 AM
Another vote for flat trajectory. This means small caliber, light bullet with max (for the bullet) powder load. I'm not maxed out on powder, but the load I shoot is comfortable and has done the job every time it's been called on. 175gr .357 cal saboted bullet in a .45 cal rifle with 100gr of powder. Zero'ed for 100yds. Works for me.
Sure,it's flatshooting but does it have the killing power to kill cleanly at those ranges.I've got a friend who got rid of his 45cal for that reason but his was a caplock.I don't think he used as much powder as you have...

UkiahDog
05-27-2009, 09:58 AM
I have a Thompson Center Triumph and have experimented with many loads. I've tried Hornady pistol XTP bullets w/mmp, the pre packaged hornady sst's, powerbelts, barnes, and TC shockwave's. I've tried 777 pellets, shockey gold pellets, powders of both with varying primers. This is what I've settled on:

Barnes XPB Pistol bullet for a 460 S&W, it's .451" and 275 grains
MMP sabot, the standard black sabot, not the easy load
110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder
Winchester 209 shotshell primer

It's dead on accurate in my gun (1 inch at 100 yards) and with the Blackhorn powder I find I don't have to clean nearly as often as any other powder. It almost seems more accurate and consistent after a shot or two. I'll shoot all day and clean at the end. If I know I'm going hunting I'll go back out and zero it with a cold, clean barrel. I dry fire a primer before the cold shot, as I would do before I load it before going in the field.

I can save a litle money on standard primers rather than the super hots. Also, use a little less powder with same velocity due to it's high temp and burn rate. My muzzleloader is far more accurate with a tight fitting sabot as they get grooved on the way down and the bullet becomes more stable in flight I think. I've never had good groupings with the easy load bullets. With this new powder they are not nearly as hard to load after a few shots, especially compared to 777.

Jet08
05-27-2009, 11:30 AM
I will throw my vote in for the .250 gr Barnes , with 115 of loose 777 poweder out of my T/C Omega. I absolutely love these bullets after dealing with frustration of the powerbelts...

Masterblaster1
05-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Gun Winchester Apex .50
100 grains Jim Shockey Gold, 265 grain Hornady Interlock in a crush rib sabot, remington primers. My favorite load because it killed my biggest buck ever on 12-18-08 a nice stateland Gladwin County 9 pt.
Gun CVA Eclipse Magnum .45
So far the 200 grain sst's shoot good but its still in experimentation stage. The gun seems to be a bit overbore so I am testing Hornady Great Plains which now appear to be discontinued?:rant:

kroppe
05-27-2009, 06:11 PM
Buckbuster,

Yes, the load will kill cleanly. I have taken two deer with this load, out of two attempts. One was a lung and heart shot. Found the deer in the cornstalks 40 yards from the point of impact. Second deer was a quartering away shot, hitting liver and lung. Same result; the deer was down in seconds, in the corn about 30 yards from point of impact.

BuckBuster
05-27-2009, 07:03 PM
Buckbuster,

Yes, the load will kill cleanly. I have taken two deer with this load, out of two attempts. One was a lung and heart shot. Found the deer in the cornstalks 40 yards from the point of impact. Second deer was a quartering away shot, hitting liver and lung. Same result; the deer was down in seconds, in the corn about 30 yards from point of impact.
Thanks for your answer...

UkiahDog
05-27-2009, 08:28 PM
Isn't a .54 caliber a .458 diameter bullet? Try the Barnes Original in that gun with an MMP sabot. The tight fitting kind.With that different ignition a lead maxi ball might be worht a try. Or Maxi Hunter.

As for the black diamond changing your powder might help without messing with the bullet. But in my experiences w/ Thompson Center inline's a good tight fitting sabot/load is key. Powder plays a role in that, unless you clean it after every load. I would think you can do better than 3" at 100 yds. Another thing I found increased my accuracy was decreasing the powder load. I think you can ovepower those things especially in some barrel configurations. At .50 cal how much velocity do you really need to kill a deer? 20 or 30 grains is not going to make a whole lot of difference.. If downrange suffers change the grain of your bullet without changing the powder. The heavier bullet will increase the pressure. You may even lower it. Lastly, switch to powder. I know a handloader who has said the pellets can vary in grainage by as much as 10%. Whether that's powder or binder I don't know, but it's a concern.

With a muzzleloader you are mostly using the kinetic shock idea to kill something. Not necessarily the through animal penetration as in a .30-06 or something like that.

Do you shoot with a bench rest?

After switching to Blackhorn 209 in my inline I'll never go back... BTW, I have almost a full container of 777 pellets if anyone wants them for free.

dburroak
05-27-2009, 08:46 PM
.50cal mountain rifle with 70gr of fffg powder and a patched round ball has workd just fine for the past 32 years.

steelsetter
05-27-2009, 08:48 PM
i really have come to like the mueller multi shot 2x7. i wont own any more leupolds for the money it is hard to go wrong with any of these i have mentioned would be great choices most under 200 bucks. and will offer more than enough features i like the 3200 series it is a great value right now on my omega i have a 2x7 mueller multi shot i love it not bad fo r 160 bucks

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Mueller_scope_failure.jpg[/IMG]

Has not impressed me....

Glad your happy deputy.

Pier Pressure
05-27-2009, 10:56 PM
I shoot a Knight MK-85 Predator Stainless with a Simmons Whitetail Expedition 3-9X42. My favorite bullet is the Knight (Barnes) TMZ in 290 GR. on top of 100 grains of 777. I've never seen a bullet open up like this one does.

I've also had great success with 295 GR. Power Belts hollow points and 300 GR. Hornady XTPs on both 90 and 100 grains of 777. In fact, I've dropped every deer that I've shot with the Power Belts. No tracking required.

454casull
05-28-2009, 06:14 AM
.45 300 grain anything w/MMP sabot on top of 95 grains (by vol.) of 3F Pinnacle. one hole at 50yards. 2X7 Cabelas Pineriver (I think) scope. No porblem knock on wood...Best shooting gun I own.

Tracker83
05-28-2009, 07:12 AM
28" Omega (blued)
300gr XTP - .452"
MMP 3 petal EZ sabot
W209 primer
85gr BH209
Worked flawlessly for 5 deer last season.................

BuckBuster
05-28-2009, 07:40 AM
It's amazing how far we've come as far as muzzleloaders & ammo goes.We as hunters are very fortunate that we have so many good choices out there.Just pick one try it.If it works,practice,practice & practice.It will pay high dividends out in the field & woods come hunting season......:)

UkiahDog
05-28-2009, 08:13 PM
You may even lower it

I meant the powder charge. After reading that it sounds like I immediately contradicted myself, making no sense at all.

BuckBuster
07-19-2009, 09:29 AM
I meant the powder charge. After reading that it sounds like I immediately contradicted myself, making no sense at all.
Oh well that happens.Thanks for all the input guys........

TakeAim0331
07-19-2009, 11:01 AM
I shoot a 50 Cal BP Express Muzzleloader made by Ultimate Firearms
Load up of (3) pellets of 777 Magnum Pellets of 50. cal
Projectile BARNES 50 CAL 290 GR SPIT-FIRE TMZ BT

I will be trying it out this fall on flesh and bone.

jdawg240
07-19-2009, 01:57 PM
.45 caliber Omega 28" barrell

3x9x40 Leaupold Varix II

200 grain shockwave sabot

3-50 grain 777 pellets

2830 fps at the muzzle

yankee
07-19-2009, 07:18 PM
my set up
50 cal TC encore 1-28 twist
110 grains tr7ple 7 loose
hornady .452 300grain xtp mag hp
mmp sabot
have had nothing but positive results with this load combo, from a lasered 165 yards to a guesstimate 25yds
just a plain devastating load combo

BuckBuster
07-20-2009, 11:30 AM
It's amazing how many combinations there are out there.Find the combo that works for you & stay with it....

WALLDADY
07-20-2009, 06:43 PM
I use an Austin Halick , 50 cal. muzzle loader , with 150 gr. ( 3 pellets ) of 777 . I shoot a 300 gr. Hornady sst sabot . Its been owsome . The range time , and my gun , told me what to use .

Good Luck and Safe Tips ................................... Walldady

frontier gander
07-20-2009, 06:55 PM
CVA Accura with either 245gr or 348gr Powerbelts with 100gr loose pyrodex rs and winchester 777 primers. Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 scope. I hunt with open sights and use the scope for finding the most accurate load.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/CVA%20Accura/Accura-resized.jpg

BuckBuster
07-21-2009, 07:05 AM
CVA Accura with either 245gr or 348gr Powerbelts with 100gr loose pyrodex rs and winchester 777 primers. Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 scope. I hunt with open sights and use the scope for finding the most accurate load.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/CVA%20Accura/Accura-resized.jpg
Nice weapon..........

BuckBuster
02-11-2011, 09:46 AM
I've been reading this old topic.I was wondering if any of you have changed your favorite load since you last posted & found a better combo especially in the past year.I'm curious because I'm heading to Illinois in December 2011 for a muzzleloader hunt.I'm using my TC inline.
Thanks..

ENCORE
02-12-2011, 06:33 AM
I've been reading this old topic.I was wondering if any of you have changed your favorite load since you last posted & found a better combo especially in the past year.I'm curious because I'm heading to Illinois in December 2011 for a muzzleloader hunt.I'm using my TC inline.
Thanks..

After a couple of really bad expierences with the ShockWave bullets, I switched back to Barnes bullets and haven't had an issue of ANY KIND since doing so. Also, now that Blackhorn 209 is available, there's no reason to shoot any other propellent. T/C's shoot it very well.....

Current Load: Barnes 250gr TMZ bullets - 110grs (volume) Blackhorn 209 powder - CCI209M primers. Best group out of my Pro Hunter for me so far, is three shots - 3/4" @ 150yds.

http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/collections/spit-fire-tmztm/

http://www.blackhorn209.com/

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=558416

All you'll need............

duck boat
02-12-2011, 07:51 AM
I have a t/c omega 50 cal.---using 100 grains pyrodex[ 2 -50 gr. pellets] and a barnes spitfire mz swabbing between each shot. outfit is topped with zeiss conquest 3x9 scope. absolutely the best accuracy and knock down power I have found over the years with any muzzleloader. ;)

buktruk
02-12-2011, 08:47 AM
Still shooting the 300 grain barnes expander but I did just pick up a new Thompson center omega in camouflage with a thumbhole stock. Can't wait to get my sightron 3x12x42 on it and shoot it.
Posted via Mobile Device

DRHUNTER
02-12-2011, 10:29 AM
After a couple of really bad expierences with the ShockWave bullets, I switched back to Barnes bullets and haven't had an issue of ANY KIND since doing so. Also, now that Blackhorn 209 is available, there's no reason to shoot any other propellent. T/C's shoot it very well.....

Current Load: Barnes 250gr TMZ bullets - 110grs (volume) Blackhorn 209 powder - CCI209M primers. Best group out of my Pro Hunter for me so far, is three shots - 3/4" @ 150yds.

http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/collections/spit-fire-tmztm/

http://www.blackhorn209.com/

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=558416

All you'll need............

Encore what happened with the Shockwaves? We have had very good performance on deer using them in my Encore, mind elaborating?

frontier gander
02-12-2011, 12:28 PM
SW's like to either Not expand and leave tiny in-out holes or they just explode in deer.

ENCORE
02-12-2011, 12:45 PM
Encore what happened with the Shockwaves? We have had very good performance on deer using them in my Encore, mind elaborating?

In a nut shell....... read post #142 above this from Frontier Gander. I made a great hit on a 160's class buck the LAST time that I used them. That buck went way further than it ever should have and made it on to an adjoining property, where an invited guest on that property claimed it. That's another story for another thread.....

I've shot hundreds, if not thousands of them here on my range or hunting. I had so many mixed results with them, it just wasn't worth shooting them, regardless how well they worked on paper. CHEAP is just that. Irregardless what a bullet costs, if it doesn't perform flawlessly EVERY TIME, its not worth me shooting. Barnes bullets don't fail and the only reason I tried the ShockWave, is that I got all caught up on the advertising hype when they first came out..... like everyone else. Best thing I ever did, was switch back to Barnes!

DRHUNTER
02-12-2011, 09:54 PM
I've been considering going to the Barnes and Blackhorn because of the great reviews. I think you just confirmed my thoughts. Thanks

BuckBuster
04-15-2011, 03:20 PM
I started this thread so we could all learn from each other.I think it's working...Keep it coming..

ENCORE
04-15-2011, 06:57 PM
I started this thread so we could all learn from each other.I think it's working...Keep it coming..

Well.......... you could spend $600 to $800 on a force gage, so that you can get exact seating pressures, mic all your bullets and sabots, use the PROPER weight vs volume measure for powder and measure your powder to the 1/10th grain.....;)

You don't need to go that far..:lol:.... just check back in some of the old posts on the forums, and pick up bits and pieces. Keep it fun and you'll enjoy a lifetime of shooting the muzz. Make it an obsession and you'll take all the fun out of it...........

BuckBuster
04-17-2011, 12:15 PM
Well.......... you could spend $600 to $800 on a force gage, so that you can get exact seating pressures, mic all your bullets and sabots, use the PROPER weight vs volume measure for powder and measure your powder to the 1/10th grain.....;)

You don't need to go that far..:lol:.... just check back in some of the old posts on the forums, and pick up bits and pieces. Keep it fun and you'll enjoy a lifetime of shooting the muzz. Make it an obsession and you'll take all the fun out of it...........

Ya,you have to keep it fun.It does help to hit what you shoot at & knock it down.So if u learn something from this thread so much the better....

ENCORE
04-17-2011, 05:39 PM
Ya,you have to keep it fun.It does help to hit what you shoot at & knock it down.So if u learn something from this thread so much the better....

Hitting what you shoot at isn't really that hard at all. Actually its pretty easy in most cases. Just takes a lot of practice. But, LEARNING is what its all about. No matter how long one's been at it, there's always a trick or something new that pops up. I've been shooting the muzz since 1977 and I always read every muzzleloader post. Maybe an 'old dog' can learn a new trick ;)

kccaro
04-17-2011, 07:18 PM
Knight Shadow Black synthetic stock with blued barrel (thinking about doing a custom camo job...)
Norinco scope (my FIL's, I'll give it back when I get around to trading my cheapy bushnell 3-9x40 onto it, before next season.

I started sighting in my gun using this combination...got it done and the two shots I took at 100 yards were within 3/4 of an inch. I called it done and good.

250 gr Hornaday SST
100gr triple se7en loose powder
Killed a doe at 18 yards, haven't gotten the opportunity to try shooting it farther than 100 yards during target practice yet, also haven't gotten the opportunity to kill any other deer than the one I killed at 18 yards.

More accurate than my H&R USH 12 ga slug gun...Maybe I should take the Nikon scope with BDC off of my USH and put it on my Knight?

Hodji
04-18-2011, 09:06 PM
T/C Omega, Laminated Stock, 45 cal, 100 grains of FF Triple 7 loose, and a 275 grain powerbuilt. Great ballistic coefficiant and accuracy. Easy to load. Have killed many deer between 50 and 120 yards with this combination all 1 shot kills farthest tracking job 50 yards with a good blood trail. Don't understand why so many people use 50 cal muzzle loaders to shoot 44 cal sabotted pistol bullets from. Very poor coefficiant and penetration should be expected,

old graybeard
04-19-2011, 05:42 AM
Well I was successfully shooting Power Belts up through this past season and had never had a failure or lost a deer. However after reading the horror stories on this forum and getting some great advice from Encore and a few others I have switched to Blackhorn 209 with Barnes 300gr expanders. My groups have tightened up and the cleaning chore has been reduced:)This comming season I expect to see bucks tipping over at the sight of me.

ENCORE
04-19-2011, 05:49 AM
This comming season I expect to see bucks tipping over at the sight of me.

We all wish it was that simple... :lol::lol::lol:

ENCORE
04-19-2011, 06:15 AM
......... Don't understand why so many people use 50 cal muzzle loaders to shoot 44 cal sabotted pistol bullets from. Very poor coefficiant and penetration should be expected,

There's alot to be learned or, found out on these forums. Many do certain things because their friends do them or, it's what some salesman behind a counter said.

Back when sabots and saboted bullets first started being used, there were very few options. Many found that shooting bullets such as the Hornady XTP (pistol bullet) was cheap and componants were readily available. Like just about everything else, its been passed on. However, don't mis-judge the XTP (pistol bullet) and its ability to harvest deer or, at ranges far beyond 100yds. With a shooter who knows his/her rifle and practices all year long, those rounds can be just as deadly as any other.

Now, if you're wondering what a pistol bullet such as a Hornady XTP will do, here's an example of a bullet recovered from a friends deer, that entered in the front shoulder and was recovered in the hind quarter.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/XTP003.jpg

Here's another example of a bullet that passed completely through the rib cage of a deer and buried itself in the dirt. The deer ran off and had it not been seen dropping, one would have never known it was hit. No blood. You guess what it is........http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/PB_Bullet_fired.jpg

Hodji
04-19-2011, 08:45 PM
Looks like a 50 cal. aero tip powerbuilt. Also looks like a very low grain (weight) for the caliber judging by the short length. Powerbuilts have soft lead inside the copper jacket so any kind of velocity upon impact will cause them to expand. looking at the picture would lead me to beleive either it was a long shot and the diameter and short bullet coefficiant caused a big decrease in velocity, or it was underpowered comming out of the muzzle. Damp powder, or not enough powder. I have to admit the hornady bullet you pictured mushroomed nicely

plugger
04-19-2011, 08:53 PM
I will be shooting a patched round ball again, out of a hawken I built.

ENCORE
04-20-2011, 05:53 AM
Looks like a 50 cal. aero tip powerbuilt. Also looks like a very low grain (weight) for the caliber judging by the short length. Powerbuilts have soft lead inside the copper jacket so any kind of velocity upon impact will cause them to expand. looking at the picture would lead me to beleive either it was a long shot and the diameter and short bullet coefficiant caused a big decrease in velocity, or it was underpowered comming out of the muzzle. Damp powder, or not enough powder. I have to admit the hornady bullet you pictured mushroomed nicely

Just to verify, I just weighed it at 295grs (yup, still have that piece of JUNK). It was shot out of a Knight MK-85 using 100grs of 2f. It passed completely through a doe, standing broadside in a small valley in a picked corn field and buried itself about 8" in the dirt. Approximately 70yds. No damp powder and certainly enough.

The problem with Powerbelts is that they're JUNK. Horror story after horror story with them. The "soft lead" that you mentioned, causes them to fragment on impact or, they pass through causing an entrance hole and exit hole. Quality control on those bullets appears to be non-existent. It is without a doubt, the most inconsistent bullet for reliability on the market for muzzleloaders. Thousands of shooters have tried them, only to lose animals that shouldn't have been lost. Would have what they THOUGHT was good accuracy, only to find out, that for some unknow reason, they started shooting all over the place and would never group again.

I've shot the muzzleloader almost exclusively since 1977 and tens of thousands of rounds. Without a doubt, its the most unpretictable and untrustworthy bullet of any that I've shot. What amaizes the the most, is that with the thousands of horror stories written all over the internet forums, people still continue to shoot a bullet that has proven itself unreliable. Others think that just because a package of five of them came with their rifle, that the manufacturer of the rifle states that "they're the best". But what they should know, is that the Powerbelt 5 pack of bullets provided are provided to the manufacturer of the rifle for free as great marketing on Powerbelt's part. It in NO WAY means that the powerbelt is the best shooting bullet for that brand of rifle.

Pounding paper is just that. I've done it for 50 years. How a bullet preforms CONSISTENTLY, with RELIABLE AND REPEATED CONSISTENCY is what makes a good hunting bullet. Not paper pounding. WAY TO MANY HORROR STORIES.......... I'd rather shoot a round ball, at least then I'd know what it was going to do!

ENCORE
04-20-2011, 06:37 AM
Here's an example of a reliable and consistent hunting bullet..

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_3216.jpg

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_3217.jpg

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/100_3218.jpg

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/Barnes_Bullets003.jpg

frontier gander
04-20-2011, 12:49 PM
225gr powerbelt .45 recovered from a doe i shot at 80 yards and dumped the bullet directly though the center of the shoulder.
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3484.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3476.jpg

She went 5 yards leaving a nice blood trail,
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3474.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3475.jpg
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3482.jpg
exit,
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Mule%20deer%20Doe/100_3483.jpg

Another doe shot around 100 yards with a 348gr custom filled powerbelt, 100gr pyrodex rs.
exit hole
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Sept%202009/PowerbeltInsert138.jpg
Entrance
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Sept%202009/PowerbeltInsert135.jpg
Lungs,
http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/Sept%202009/PowerbeltInsert136.jpg

Ive only been able to recover one powerbelt and that was the first one i posted above.

Hodji
04-20-2011, 06:31 PM
Encore,
Thanks for sharing your experience with powerbuilts. It is an eye opener to me. I know several people who use them all with good results and accuracy. I have a couple recovered powerbuilt bullets from deer I shot quartering away. I found them under the skin on the oposite sholder while skinning them. Both of them mushroomed very nicely, similar to the one Frontier Gander posted above. It would be hard for me to change something that has been working, but do you have a recommended load for a 45 cal muzzle loader. Is the Blackhorn 209 powder really worth the $$? I have a can and a half left of triple 7. The only down side to it seems to be the crud ring it leaves after every shot. I found if I swab the barrel between shots It works great.

ENCORE
04-20-2011, 07:47 PM
Encore,
......... Is the Blackhorn 209 powder really worth the $$? I have a can and a half left of triple 7. The only down side to it seems to be the crud ring it leaves after every shot. I found if I swab the barrel between shots It works great.

Check the forums from last fall. I think that UPTracker posted a compairsion of the different propellents, shots/cost. Very good work.

I've shot it all. I gave 2 1/2 bottles of T7 away and any pellets. Pyrodex is gone except for a couple 30gr pellets laying around, and I have a couple cans of 2-f readily available on the bench.

I shot BH209 exclusively and won't waste money on the other propellents. Once you learn to work with it, you'll wonder why you didn't switch earlier. Read some of the compairisons on the Blackhorn209 website. I've found them all to be accurate.

ENCORE
04-20-2011, 08:09 PM
225gr powerbelt .45 recovered from a doe i shot at 80 yards and dumped the bullet directly though the center of the shoulder.Ive only been able to recover one powerbelt and that was the first one i posted above.

Gander, you and I can go back and forth about those bullets forever. However, showing one bullet and the same pictures of the same deer over and over is getting a little...... well.......... Had I taken the time or, had even wanted to, I could have taken pretty close to 300 different pictures of entrance/exit wounds.

Nothing personal here, as you're another brother in the world of muzzleloading. ;)

Rather you support or are supported by the manufacturer of the bullets, it still doesn't change the fact that the internet is plastered with hundreds of complaints about the bullets performance and reliability. It only takes a simple search and they're readily available. Deer that have been lost with proper shots, poor blood trails, fragmentation, no expansion and on and on.

I'm not aware of any other muzzleloader projectile that has had as much BAD publicity as these bullets. And trying to lay blame on the shooter may work in some limited cases but, certainly not the shear number of cases reported.

Hunters/shooters can certainly shoot what ever bullet that they feel comfortable with. We all have that right. However, with the numbers of different bullets available to muzzleloader shooters/hunters today, WHY would any hunter want to hunt with a bullet with the number of complaints as that bullet. Paper punching is just that. But, IMO when one makes the attempt to harvest an animal, I believe they should use a bullet with repeatability and reliability. They owe it to the animal.

BuckBuster
04-24-2011, 08:08 AM
There's alot to be learned or, found out on these forums. Many do certain things because their friends do them or, it's what some salesman behind a counter said.

Back when sabots and saboted bullets first started being used, there were very few options. Many found that shooting bullets such as the Hornady XTP (pistol bullet) was cheap and componants were readily available. Like just about everything else, its been passed on. However, don't mis-judge the XTP (pistol bullet) and its ability to harvest deer or, at ranges far beyond 100yds. With a shooter who knows his/her rifle and practices all year long, those rounds can be just as deadly as any other.

Now, if you're wondering what a pistol bullet such as a Hornady XTP will do, here's an example of a bullet recovered from a friends deer, that entered in the front shoulder and was recovered in the hind quarter.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/medium/XTP003.jpg

Here's another example of a bullet that passed completely through the rib cage of a deer and buried itself in the dirt. The deer ran off and had it not been seen dropping, one would have never known it was hit. No blood. You guess what it is........http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/500/PB_Bullet_fired.jpg
My powerbelts are 50 cal.All aerotips have green tips...in this cal.Could this be a .45 cal.?

BuckBuster
04-24-2011, 08:18 AM
Encore,
Thanks for sharing your experience with powerbuilts. It is an eye opener to me. I know several people who use them all with good results and accuracy. I have a couple recovered powerbuilt bullets from deer I shot quartering away. I found them under the skin on the oposite sholder while skinning them. Both of them mushroomed very nicely, similar to the one Frontier Gander posted above. It would be hard for me to change something that has been working, but do you have a recommended load for a 45 cal muzzle loader. Is the Blackhorn 209 powder really worth the $$? I have a can and a half left of triple 7. The only down side to it seems to be the crud ring it leaves after every shot. I found if I swab the barrel between shots It works great.
Hodji,they're Powerbelts not powerbuilts.I still like their accuracy.I've shot many deer with them.Depends where you hit them.I have tried the hollow points.I like them for woods hunting when your shots are under 100 yards.Sometimes people have agendas that's why you have varying opinions.Stick to what you like an feel comfortable with.Encore, I'm not jabbing you but the powerbelt you showed had the red tip.It doesn't look like a 295 gr.powerbelt.Mine are green tipped.Just saying...

Hodji
04-24-2011, 08:25 AM
.It doesn't look like a 295 gr.powerbelt.Mine are green tipped.Just saying...
The 45 cal powerbelts are yellow tipped.

Hodji
04-24-2011, 08:43 AM
Just checked the powerbelt website. The red tip bullets are 54 cal.

BuckBuster
04-24-2011, 09:28 AM
Just checked the powerbelt website. The red tip bullets are 54 cal.
Thanks for that info.Maybe that's why there's a difference.I've read all the posts about powerbelts & all the negative comments.It's the mob mentality.I know people have good intentions but I think let the hunter decide.Don't get me wrong,I've had some deer that the powerbelt didn't expand but I did get the animal.Some dropped in there tracks.No problem at all with bullets fragmenting.Powerbelt hollow points are another option. You can't convince me there all junk.Enough said..Happy Easter & Good Luck to all this coming Muzzleloader season..I hope nobody is offended by my comments.It's the Truth.I have no agenda...

ENCORE
04-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Just checked the powerbelt website. The red tip bullets are 54 cal.

;) Yes, you're exactly right. Good job checking ;)

ENCORE
04-24-2011, 03:19 PM
Thanks for that info.Maybe that's why there's a difference.I've read all the posts about powerbelts & all the negative comments.It's the mob mentality.I know people have good intentions but I think let the hunter decide.Don't get me wrong,I've had some deer that the powerbelt didn't expand but I did get the animal.Some dropped in there tracks.No problem at all with bullets fragmenting.Powerbelt hollow points are another option. You can't convince me there all junk.Enough said..Happy Easter & Good Luck to all this coming Muzzleloader season..I hope nobody is offended by my comments.It's the Truth.I have no agenda...

HAPPY EASTER TO YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE TOO !

Hunters can decide exactly what bullet they would like to shoot and I'll defent their right to do that. However........ as I've repeated multipal times a question.......... Why would a hunter, hunt with a bullet that so many different hunters/shooters from all over the country, claim are unreliable or, they report having multipal bad expierences with? One should question the bullets and question him/herself about shooting them and, why so many hunters have had so many problems with them over the years. Hunters owe it to the animal which they are hunting, to be confident with shot placement and that the bullet they fire is reliable and repeatable.

I DO HAVE AN AGENDA...;)..... however, its a much different agenda than you MAY POSSIBLY present. My agenda, after shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders for 35 years, is to try to present problem solving, as best that I can, for what I'm aware of and, present facts as provided by other shooters/hunters. I promote practice, practice, practice and practice more. Know your muzzleloader inside and out. Know where it shoots at any given distance. Know your limitations and the limitations of your rifle. Know that the bullets that you hunt with are of the utmost quality, reliability, repeatable consistency and that they perform FLAWLESSLY EVERY TIME, WITHOUT FAILURE.

Just like in my signature, I do not own stock in Barnes bullets. I do shoot them though. However, Barnes is willing to do lab tests and compare bullets to bullets, as noted at the bottom of the page in this link... http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/

Hunters CAN shoot any type of projectile that they prefer. Rather its because it loads easier, their buddies shoot it or, they've harvested a couple deer with them. Its totally up to the hunter. However, as I asked before, Why would a hunter shoot a bullet that has a reputation of poor performance by so many hunters, when there are SO MANY other options available to him/her???????

No offence taken. Happy Easter :)

radiohead
04-24-2011, 03:26 PM
I shoot 250 grain T/C Shockwaves with Triple 7 black powder pellets.
Never tried anything else...never had a reason to.

OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors

BuckBuster
04-25-2011, 07:30 AM
Encore,I will not continue to argue your point other than to make you understand my side also.I've been hunting for over 50 years.Muzzle loading for 38 years.I understand about killing your animals quickly & humanely.I've shot 91 deer to date.Moose,bear Ect.I'm all about practice,practice & practice.I've hunted with Muzzleloader,bow & arrow, crossbow,shotgun & rifles.Small game,upland birds & waterfowl.My life is about hunting.For you to basicly attack me because you have a different opinion on a projectile is crazy.I'm a christian.I'm using powerbelt 50 cal.bullets.I practice.I'm accurate with my T/C Black Diamond in line.I'm not a reckless person.I respect people's opinions but I'm not going to follow a bunch of people because of your opinions.If I did I'd be trying every bullet on the market.Believe me I had tried many.If it ain't broke don't fix it.I know you'll come back with your own come back.I didn't just shoot a couple of deer with it but many..So you believe your right & I believe I'm right because it works for me..Thanks for your time..We need more individuals & not so many followers.You used one type of powerbelt.Aerotip .54 cal.295gr..I tried the 50 cal. 245 & 295 Aerotip & hollow point.Also the all lead pointed 245 & 295.I used different powder loads until I was happy.Yes they're easy loading, accurate & the ability to kill an animal cleanly.I rest my case.You based your opinion on 1 power belt bullet & based your opinion on others that probably like you already had a favorite projectile.Sorry for this long post but I don't want to be misunderstood,I don't want to be disresptful to you.But do in turn want to be treated with respect.It's just my opinion of why I SHOOT Powerbelts...Thanks again...

johnhunter247
04-25-2011, 08:34 AM
I shoot a prohunter with 100 gr of triple seven with a barnes expander spit fire TMZ 250gr. I have tried several different types of ammo and have found this one shoots the best out of my muzzleloader. The shockwave ammo wont hold a pattern at 100 yards for nothing out of my gun. I believe every barrel will shoot differently. I do not believe one bullet shoots better than the other. It is just a matter of finding the one that shoots the best from your gun. I just got a triumph and most likely from past experience I will have to play around with different bullets in that one two. One thing I found out though is I always thought more power is better. I was shooting 150 gr of powder and backed it off to 100 so my 12 year old son could shoot without the recoil and the gun shoots just as good as my 300 weatherby at 100 yards. The group tightened up to about the size of a golf ball at 100 yards where before it was about the size of a softball. I am no professional just speaking on past experience.

BuckBuster
04-25-2011, 10:46 AM
I shoot a prohunter with 100 gr of triple seven with a barnes expander spit fire TMZ 250gr. I have tried several different types of ammo and have found this one shoots the best out of my muzzleloader. The shockwave ammo wont hold a pattern at 100 yards for nothing out of my gun. I believe every barrel will shoot differently. I do not believe one bullet shoots better than the other. It is just a matter of finding the one that shoots the best from your gun. I just got a triumph and most likely from past experience I will have to play around with different bullets in that one two. One thing I found out though is I always thought more power is better. I was shooting 150 gr of powder and backed it off to 100 so my 12 year old son could shoot without the recoil and the gun shoots just as good as my 300 weatherby at 100 yards. The group tightened up to about the size of a golf ball at 100 yards where before it was about the size of a softball. I am no professional just speaking on past experience.
I respect that.You experimented with bullets.Shooting them out of your muzzle loader.You came up with one that was avallable to you.I did the same but it was 11 years ago.Powerbelts were readily availlable at the local Walmart.Others were availlable at sportsmen stores.I started with a TC sabot.After hunting a couple years with them.I shot one deer.I decided I needed to try another preferably full caliber.I also didn't like the plastic sabots& .45 caliber pistol bullet. I was shooting 50 cal.Anyway powerbelts came into the picture.I bought a bunch of them.They worked for me.How they are today I don't know.I still have plenty..Good luck with your hunting.Shoot straight...

johnhunter247
04-25-2011, 11:36 AM
Buckbuster I agree with the mentality if it aint broke dont fix it. If you have something that shoots well out of your gun and does the job then why change? I would not. The barnes I use now work great for me and have not failed me yet so as long as they keep making them my search for a bullet for that gun are over. They can come out with a superman bullet and I would not care because I have found what works good for my gun. I actually found that bullet by frustration and after talking with a guy who shoots muzzle competition, told me to give barnes a try, I have been happy with them.

ENCORE
04-25-2011, 11:36 AM
Encore,I will not continue to argue your point other than to make you understand my side also.I've been hunting for over 50 years.Muzzle loading for 38 years.I understand about killing your animals quickly & humanely.I've shot 91 deer to date.Moose,bear Ect.I'm all about practice,practice & practice.I've hunted with Muzzleloader,bow & arrow, crossbow,shotgun & rifles.Small game,upland birds & waterfowl.My life is about hunting.For you to basicly attack me because you have a different opinion on a projectile is crazy.I'm a christian.I'm using powerbelt 50 cal.bullets.I practice.I'm accurate with my T/C Black Diamond in line.I'm not a reckless person.I respect people's opinions but I'm not going to follow a bunch of people because of your opinions.If I did I'd be trying every bullet on the market.Believe me I had tried many.If it ain't broke don't fix it.I know you'll come back with your own come back.I didn't just shoot a couple of deer with it but many..So you believe your right & I believe I'm right because it works for me..Thanks for your time..We need more individuals & not so many followers.You used one type of powerbelt.Aerotip .54 cal.295gr..I tried the 50 cal. 245 & 295 Aerotip & hollow point.Also the all lead pointed 245 & 295.I used different powder loads until I was happy.Yes they're easy loading, accurate & the ability to kill an animal cleanly.I rest my case.You based your opinion on 1 power belt bullet & based your opinion on others that probably like you already had a favorite projectile.Sorry for this long post but I don't want to be misunderstood,I don't want to be disresptful to you.But do in turn want to be treated with respect.It's just my opinion of why I SHOOT Powerbelts...Thanks again...

First, there's no disrespect intended or implied. If you FEEL that I disrespect you for your choice in projectiles, you're sadly mistaken. There's no "ATTACK" present, just a difference of opinion. I'd go back and read my prior posts again, then please point out where I "ATTACKED" you. As for deer hunting and harvesting, I'm pushing over 250 harvested, in Michigan and Canada. I too have been hunting all my life, with just about every weapon, except a crossbow, of which I have no intent. I've just settled on the muzzleloader specificaly for the last 35 years. I shoot thousands of rounds each year, have my own range, try different bullets and sabots. I'm no "rookie" when it comes to muzzleloaders and I never claimed to be a "pro".

Second, ONE (1) Powerbelt is NOT all that I've tried in one rifle or many of them. You seem to think that I'm basing my opinion on just one bullet or one rifle, which is far from the case. I can give you a long list of shooters that have also tried them, on paper and hunting, that gave them away for a reason and switched to different bullets.

I've helped many shooters improve their shooting skills and improved their conficence. I'd much rather do that than shoot myself. I've received PM after PM here on M-S asking for help/suggestions, then received answers expressing thanks. I've had shooters hand me their new rifles and a scope in a box and ask if I'd do them a favor. Never once refusing or not helping.

Now, if my difference of opinion about a brand of bullet causes disrespect or you feel its an "attack" on you. You couldn't be more wrong. Because I mearly ask the same quesion about why anyone would shoot a specific projectile that has so much bad press bothers you, it certainly isn't an attack. Its a question.

BuckBuster
04-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Hi Encore.How are you.You seemed to have misinterpreted what I said.So it's going to stop here.God Bless you!!!!!!!You've taken a thread that I started split it up in 2 categories.I started in Muzzleloaders & you switch it to Firearms.So I can see you love to be in control.It was a simple start to this thread.I just wanted to know what other hunters used.Not for you to start a campaign against one particular bullet you don't like.I appreciate everyone's responses to my thread thanks..I will no longer be responding to this thread.Encore have at it.

Bearblade
04-30-2011, 06:38 AM
.490 roundball and 80 gr. of 3f black powder.