Lenawee County Cougar capture

[eddiemq1]

Well, apparently authorities have captured a cougar here according to our local newspaper, The Daily Telegram.
http://www.lenconnect.com/articles/2005/03/01/news/news02.txt
never would have believed it.

[Dawg]

Many still won't believe it.

[Adam Waszak]

Where are the pics? I want pics. Imagine if that was you, would you call the police? they would think your nuts :lol:

[live2bowhunt]

that is right down the road where I grew up!:yikes: :yikes: Less than a mile:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[UPwannabe]

From the article, "Smith said it is believed that this cougar is only a cub as it did not appear to be full grown."

Interesting, so would thais confirm a breeding pair? Kind of puts a damper on the old arguement that all the sitings are escaped pets.

[dinoday]

I don't buy it.There's no cougars in Michigan :rolleyes:
I hope somebody posts the pictures...I'd love to see it!Then we can hear all the excuses for where it came from. :lol:

[Ebowhunter]

Well of course they are all released pets that managed to breed once in the wild :one_eye:

[Buddy Lee]

Well, apparently authorities have captured a cougar here according to our local newspaper, The Daily Telegram.
http://www.lenconnect.com/articles/2005/03/01/news/news02.txt
never would have believed it.

It still doesn't prove a damn thing.

Sincerely,
Linda G.

[eddiemq1]

I'll post pictures if they ever develop. From the apparent lack of fear of humans (entering barns, walking around in daylight) my guess is that it is/was a former pet released, I firmly believe all of the sightings in southern michigan are. just thought everyone would like the article due to the fact that a cougar was actually caught.

[Steven Arend]

I will wait to become a believer after I have seen pictures and here more about the one they trapped and there are more credible reports and the DNR acknowledge the fact the wild cougar are in Michigan and if he!! freezes over.

[Bwana]

Thats not a Cougar! Thats a former house cat. :lol:

If a formerly domesticated Boy Cougar finds a formerly domesticated Girl Cougar and partakes in some formerly domesticated Cougar Love. Will the result be free ranging undomesticated Cougar(s) or will they not count since their parents were formerly domesticated?

[BuckBass]

Two questions:

1) Where in this article does it say that the animal was "caught"? It appears as if this is just another sighting.

2) If the deputy took photos, then why aren't they in the article?

BB

[Unregistered4]

Probably a Yellow Lab not a cougar, you know your average citizen can't tell the differents between the two. Read that somewhere, think it was a dnr report.:lol:

[Adam Waszak]

It still doesn't prove a damn thing.

Sincerely,
Linda G.


LMAO :lol: As long as we don't talk politics your alright Buddy :lol: :lol:

AW

[Dawg]

"Hedrick said a wild cat was found in one of the traps Monday morning. Smith said it is believed that this cougar is only a cub as it did not appear to be full grown."

[Swamp Monster]

Two questions:

1) Where in this article does it say that the animal was "caught"? It appears as if this is just another sighting.

BB

Last paragraph...small cat caught in trap


I'm not holding my breath....about it being a born in the wild from wild parents cat anyway. I don't believe thay have a half dozen running around that area....that officer may have had a half dozen calls though. If the population was that high, hunters, trappers and those that run dogs would have run into a few of them...that area isn't exactly wilderness! Unless they have been hiding in peoples barns all this time ;)


I'll wait until those experts at the MWC ...oh wait, they probably are already claiming they have dna from that wild litter and have been monitoring them for months!

I'm not a non believer really, I think we may have some in certain area's of the state or at least it's possible. But a half dozen wild cougers running around the Tecumseh area???

[Adam Waszak]

Its not even full grown so it must be a puppy yellow labs I guess. I wouls like to see the face of the guy who checked the trap and saw it in there :yikes: This will be interesting what the naysayers will come up with now. Seems to be an awful lot escaped pets lately. How many people actually have these "pets" anymore. Seems like we would be seeing less and less if they were not breeding don't you think? Probably just the neighbors tom cat.

AW

[Unregistered4]

It still doesn't prove a damn thing.

Sincerely,
Linda G. Excellent LMAO, I swear, that's funny. Thank you, Brian.

[Linda G.]

You took the words right out of my mouth....particularly since it hasn't been captured, it's only been spotted... ;)

It says that the captured animal in the trap was a wild....CAT...not cougar, not mountain lion, not puma. CAT...as in household variety or barn variety very commonly spotted and caught in too many trappers' sets all over the state. The kind that people pull up in front of a farmer's house and dump out of their cars, thinking he'll feed it milk and it will catch mice, along with all 200 or so of it's other compatriots.

CAT...not cougar.

It's been a long, long, long winter, hasn't it, guys?? ;) :p

[Swamp Monster]

The MWC is probably rolling footage on this wild "cat" as we speak. As soon as there photo editors...errr I mean wildlife bioligists are finished studying this beast, they will offer up proof! :lol: :lol:

[woodsrat]

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine in Lenawee County (Sheriff Deputy). He said that they HAVE NOT captured a Cougar. It was a ferel cat. They do have photos though of a big cat with a long tail, believed to be a Cougar.

I read the article the same way as Linda G. So, I made a call.

[KEN C]

"We believe we've got about half dozen of them in the area," said Lt. Cletus Smith from the Lenawee County Sheriff's Department. "We want people to remember that this is a wild animal. Do not approach it. Call us."
A half dozen in a area that populated? Wow that seems like a stretch. How did they populate so quickly.

"Traps have been set out by the department. Hedrick said a wild cat was found in one of the traps Monday morning. Smith said it is believed that this cougar is only a cub as it did not appear to be full grown."
This article at one point calls it a cat and then a cougar cub? Should have waited until April 1 st to run this article :lol:





.

[Unregistered4]

Excellent LMAO, I swear, that's funny. Thank you, Brian. Sorry Linda, I didn't mean to laugh out load but, it was kind of funny and some of these threads lately have been, so heated, that it just felt good to laugh a little. I respect your opinion, hopefully no hard feelings. Brian.

[Ranger Ray]

I had one in my back yard yesterday. Yep, that’s right. I had just got my gun because no more than 3 minutes before, Bigfoot ran thru my yard. As I ran out of the house to chase Bigfoot the darn thing came out of the bushes and ran right past me and disappeared around the back. I couldn't get a shot at either of them because the flying saucer they ran into was to fast to get a bead on it as it flew off. Now the next thing I am going to tell you is a little far fetched so please go easy on me. Now I am not sure but I think it was Elvis flying that thing. ;)

[Unregistered4]

I had one in my back yard yesterday. Yep, that’s right. I had just got my gun because no more than 3 minutes before, Bigfoot ran thru my yard. As I ran out of the house to chase Bigfoot the darn thing came out of the bushes and ran right past me and disappeared around the back. I couldn't get a shot at either of them because the flying saucer they ran into was to fast to get a bead on it as it flew off. Now the next thing I am going to tell you is a little far fetched so please go easy on me. Now I am not sure but I think it was Elvis flying that thing. ;) Must not have been swinging a ruger red label, because you'd a been on him and all of them would have been dead right now, if you were.;)

[Trushot_Archer]

I hunt right behind where they're saying this all took place.

There are a lot of feral cats for sure but I've never seen a cougar.

They could be there though I guess.

I hear a lot of stories around about them...from guys I know and trust too.

[Bwana]

I had one in my back yard yesterday. Yep, that’s right. I had just got my gun because no more than 3 minutes before, Bigfoot ran thru my yard. As I ran out of the house to chase Bigfoot the darn thing came out of the bushes and ran right past me and disappeared around the back. I couldn't get a shot at either of them because the flying saucer they ran into was to fast to get a bead on it as it flew off. Now the next thing I am going to tell you is a little far fetched so please go easy on me. Now I am not sure but I think it was Elvis flying that thing. ;)

You better be careful Ray, it sounds like you live in a bad neighborhood. ;)

[Sprytle]

Oh My .................here We Go Again!!!!!!!!! ;) :d :)

[Adam Waszak]

What made the tracks then
.

AW

[SR-Mechead]

[QUOTE=Adam Waszak]What made the tracks then

Adam
Animals don't make tracks .I mean we have 1.7 million deer and no tracks. Why should cougars make tracks :lol:

[Adam Waszak]

[QUOTE=Adam Waszak]What made the tracks then

Adam
Animals don't make tracks .I mean we have 1.7 million deer and no tracks. Why should cougars make tracks :lol:


LMAO :lol: Well at least we had a near record harvest of whitetails again this year so that is what cut down on the tracks too I bet :dizzy: Good point SR- they say we have tons of deer everywhere yet I didn't see em but theb they say we would have seen and caught a cougar by now when there are only a few possibly out there :bash: :dizzy: I hear the cougars moved in to control the wolverine population.

AW

[markbouman]

They ran a cougar story earlier this week and an "eye witness" they interviewed was a guy that was out "star gazing" (one could assume at night) and saw "at least 3 sets of yellow eyes" surrounding him. He's SURE they were cougars!!!!!!! :dizzy: No pictures - NOTHING to support his report. THIS IS THE BEST THEY COULD COME UP WITH!!!!! :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

[Adam Waszak]

Why do they always pick the dumb people to talk to :dizzy: "hey buddy, what did the tornado sound like when yer trailer blew away?" And here comes the village idiot to respond. If there is no story then move on but don't grab some guy out stargazing who has no idea what he saw :bash:

Besides all of the Michigan cougars i have seen stalking me at night have had more of a greenish color eyes :lol:

AW

[wyle_e_coyote]

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine in Lenawee County (Sheriff Deputy). He said that they HAVE NOT captured a Cougar. It was a ferel cat. They do have photos though of a big cat with a long tail, believed to be a Cougar.

I read the article the same way as Linda G. So, I made a call.


There has been allot of promising "signs" lately, but still no proof. I am still waiting on more news from Menomonee Co. about the hair from the car bumper. Reports were that it was Couger, but why do they stop there, no one is looking for a wounded couger??? They might find one soon, but I say none here yet, sorry.
Everyone wants to jump on us naysayers so bad, that they are trying to hard. If we have wild cougers in Michigan they will be found, slow down, let it happen. It must be pretty embarassing to all jump out so fast and start in with "SEE WE TOLD YOU" only to find out the article was written with misleading statements like "we cought a CAT"...then find out it was a ferrel cat.:lol: ..!!!!
Everyone wants to be the first to catch Bigfoot, Aliens, and Michigan cougers.
Good Luck!!

[Dawg]

"Hedrick said a wild cat was found in one of the traps Monday morning. Smith said it is believed that THIS cougar is only a cub as it did not appear to be full grown."

I'm certainly no master of the written word but it sure would seem that this type of slop shouldn't be strewn by a writer or getting past an editor.

wild....CAT...not cougar, not mountain lion, not puma. CAT...not cougar
A cougar is a wild cat, but a wild cat is not necessarily a cougar.

[funebonz880]

http://www.miwildlife.org/ take a look, kinda interesting.

[woodsrat]

I will repeat. I talked to Lenawee County Sheriff Department. They DID NOT capture a Cougar in the trap. A ferel cat was captured in the trap (house cat variety). They did have a Cougar sighting there though, which is why Lenawee County Animal Control Officers put the traps out. They have had several reported sightings of Cougars in Lenawee County.

Footprints were seen by a Deputy Sheriff. Photos were taken of the suspected Cougar by the homeowner. The officer took photos of the footprints.

I do believe that there are some Cougars running around the state and that they have been doing so for quite some time (in relatively small numbers).

The Lenawee County Newspaper wrote the story that started this thread and due to a confusing choice of words in a sentence, made it sound like a Cougar had been captured.

[Swamp Monster]

http://www.miwildlife.org/ take a look, kinda interesting.


And very suspect as well......zero credibility. When a group with the knowledge they saythey have tries to pass off home video of house cats as proof of wild cougars, one has to wonder their motive.

[KEN C]

:yeahthat:
That video is terrible and it looks like my barn cat taking a strool

[Trophy Specialist]

Here's an interesting article in the Free Press by Erie Sharp:
http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/outcol24e_20050224.htm

[Brian S]

That sharp article is hilarious.

This wildlife conservancy is really bending over backward to "prove" there are cougars in MI. IMHO, they've got an agenda and will stop at nothing to push that agenda. Wouldn't put it past them to plant evidence. Heck, the fur from the UP car accident could have been planted by them and the whole incident a fabrication.

Is sharp loosin' it? :coco:

[Rudi's Dad]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger Ray
I had one in my back yard yesterday. Yep, that’s right. I had just got my gun because no more than 3 minutes before, Bigfoot ran thru my yard. As I ran out of the house to chase Bigfoot the darn thing came out of the bushes and ran right past me and disappeared around the back. I couldn't get a shot at either of them because the flying saucer they ran into was to fast to get a bead on it as it flew off. Now the next thing I am going to tell you is a little far fetched so please go easy on me. Now I am not sure but I think it was Elvis flying that thing. ;)



Hats off to Ray, you and I are on the same program.

[funebonz880]

Why hasnt any of our members seen any cougars. Youd think one of us with all the time we spend in the woods, would at least have spotted one of em.

[live2bowhunt]

but they would get ripped on if they ever brought it up on here!

[Bwana]

Why hasnt any of our members seen any cougars. Youd think one of us with all the time we spend in the woods, would at least have spotted one of em.

If I spotted a Cougar there is no way I would acknowledge it to this group.

[Big50blaster]

http://www.lenconnect.com/articles/2005/03/01/news/news02.txt

Theys says theys got photos of the cat! Them pictures of the tracks looks kinda big for a plane old house cat.:lol:

Mite be kinda hard to exsplain how a house cat that runned from the cop left tracks that big.:lol: :lol:

I bets that the skunk marshalls is havin a big old powwow right now so as they can come up with a story bout big footed housecats the size of golden retreevers.:grouphug:

[Swamp Monster]

Poor Sharp..man he took the bait hook iline and sinker! If he had the whole story he wouldn't blatantly lie like this......(his words)

We have videos and photographs, admittedly made by amateurs and mostly of poor quality. But one video has been confirmed by two forensic photography experts as showing two big cougars, each close to six feet long, in Monroe County. (To judge it for yourself, visit the conservancy Web site at www.miwildlife.org.)

That video was dismissed by numerous game bioligists and big cat authorities. Namely one or two from the Eastern Cougar Network....the links of which have been posted on this site a couple of times. The Monroe county videos are NOT cougers!

And furthermore, what does he expect the DNR to do to propagate Michigan Cougers? Make areas that look like nice couger mating areas off limits to the public??? Or just close off large tracts of suitable land all together? (oops, I think somebody at the MWC just perked up!) Our DNR doesn't need to do anything...not like people are out running them with dogs/trying to trap them, etc....and if they are, their shockingly poor success speaks volumes.

Yeah, we have some cougers running around but how wild is questionable. In the UP it's reasonable to believe....but in Monroe County and Tecumseh...a bit more difficult.

[woodsrat]

Sigh..........Yawn..............Snore............. ..These threads get nowhere. Moderator, please close this. Another one will open in a week or two.

[Sailor]

Swamp gas or maybe weather balloons ? It's almost impossible to prove a self evident truth to a skeptic. Self evident truths like Michigan has wolverines, lions, and more than it's share of skeptics.

[Swamp Monster]

Sailor, I'm not that big of a skeptic really.....I like to think we do have some wild Cougars running around. But, the MWC is not an organization I would look to for the truth. Proven liars lead to skepticsim.

[Brian S]

What find entertaining about all this is the MWC and their idea that just because a cougar is "sighted", or their presence is "confirmed", that they are somehow survivors of the cougars that may have roamed in MI a over 100 years ago.

Thats what they proclaim. That the cougars never really disappeared. They ignore the concept of any cougar being a former pet or an escape from a hunting preserve.

[markbouman]

Sigh..........Yawn..............Snore............. ..These threads get nowhere. Moderator, please close this. Another one will open in a week or two.

Trophy Specialist already has ......... :dizzy:

[coondawg]

All I know is I was told by Mike Bailey and Dave Bostick of the MDNR that the cougar up north was in fact confirmed.


take it for what it's worth, but according to them atleast in the north country we had and if still living have a cougar.

[Linda G.]

I think that, like the Lenawee County cougar story, we need to keep the facts straight here.

Hair from an apparent vehicle accident in the western UP was confirmed as coming from a cougar, but the existence of a cougar in the western UP has NOT been confirmed.

I've been trying to find out more about this, talked to the DNR's Endangered Species coordinator yesterday. All he knew was that hairs, reputedly from a vehicle encounter, were turned over by a Michigan State Police trooper and confirmed two months later as coming from a cougar. There was never any further investigation into this, that I can find, nor was there ever any further investigation or search for a presumably wounded or dead cougar at the time of the accident. Why, I don't know. It was the perfect opportunity.

I haven't even been able to find out for a fact that the Michigan State Police was at the scene of the accident, and that the accident did indeed take place where it was reported to have taken place. No facts at all...very odd...

:confused:

[coondawg]

In my conversation with Mike I took it that the MDNR took the evidence to mean the cougar was confirmed. Perhaps that just means that the hairs are confirmed, but I did take it to mean the existence and that was the perception I was left with.


best regards,
Erick

[woodsrat]

I think that, like the Lenawee County cougar story, we need to keep the facts straight here.

Hair from an apparent vehicle accident in the western UP was confirmed as coming from a cougar, but the existence of a cougar in the western UP has NOT been confirmed.

I've been trying to find out more about this, talked to the DNR's Endangered Species coordinator yesterday. All he knew was that hairs, reputedly from a vehicle encounter, were turned over by a Michigan State Police trooper and confirmed two months later as coming from a cougar. There was never any further investigation into this, that I can find, nor was there ever any further investigation or search for a presumably wounded or dead cougar at the time of the accident. Why, I don't know. It was the perfect opportunity.

I haven't even been able to find out for a fact that the Michigan State Police was at the scene of the accident, and that the accident did indeed take place where it was reported to have taken place. No facts at all...very odd...

:confused:

I had no problem finding facts regarding the crash. I will not share these as there are privacy issues. I would like to say that in a court of law eyewitness testimony regarding first hand visualization, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting is still considered good evidence (even in this day and age). That means the folks in Lenawee County who had a Cougar in their yard and barn are to be believed until proven otherwise. I cannot imagine seeing something, coming forward and then having a whole host of strangers inadvertantly calling you crazy or a liar. You cannot wipe out all eyewitness sightings without proving that the witness is unreliable.

Yes, some of the sightings may not have been Cougars (Bobcats, Dogs, whatever). And, as you can see with this thread, jumping to conclusions only makes skeptics more skeptical. But many, many credible and reasonable people have been seeing these animals. Lots of those folks know the difference between a Cougar and a Yellow Lab.

[deerslayer#1]

Anybody that thinks those cougars are house cats is never going to believe they are present in Michigan! Never.....never.......never.......!! Those experts in video, and forensics, are correct, those are cougars. If you think cougars don't lift thier tail like that, just wait!! Let me ask you? If someone had pictures of lions with the tail in the air, would you then give the video some more credit?? Let me know, you may be surprised!!

[KEN C]

Those so called experts are trumped by the other 10 experts that say it is a house cat. Why on earth would all these Bioligists and Proffesors put there Reputation on the line and lie. The facts are simple they are house cats.
Mark L Zornes

Arizona Game & Fish Dept.

Small Game/Predator-Furbearer Biologist

"I have reviewed the tape and all cats shown are obviously house cats. The photo of the "family" group and the single animal prior to and after exhibit traits and behaviors consistent with house cats, not cougars. I have never observed cougars lifting their tails in an erect manner as seen on the video, and have yet to find a single cougar biologist that has witnessed this behavior. Cougars are specifically documented as the only large wild felid that does not "spray" to mark territory (note this behavior in the Stokes film). The "humped-backed" posture exhibited by all cats in the video is not consistent with cougar behavior, but is with house cats. The size comparison footage from the "Stoke's film" and the single cat are very suspect."

Chuck Anderson. Ph.D.

Trophy Game Section

Wyoming Game and Fish Department

“Regarding the Michigan cougar video, all of the cats video taped look like the "kitty" variety to me. The erect tail and humped back is not consistent with cougar behavior/physiology. Estimated size of the object video taped can be significantly off if the distance to the subject is not exact. I suspect others have pointed this out, but in addition to the video taped cats, the tape also includes a still photograph of a cougar I suspect is a captive animal. This cat exhibited significant belly fat, which I have never seen on a wild cougar. Feel free to cite my opinion and let me know if you have any additional questions.”

Darrell Land
Florida Panther Section Leader

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

“In my humble opinion, based on 20 years of experience with Florida panthers and investigating Florida panther sightings, I believe the video referenced below is of 2 housecats. Cougars/panthers/mountain lions are not capable of holding their tails in the manner of the cats in the video. Also, I do not believe that video accurately portrays the size of the cats. In fact, it appears that the cats are of the same height, if not shorter than, the stubble in the field and I suspect that stubble to be less than 18 inches tall.”



Norah B. Fletchall
Co-Chair AZA Felid Taxon Advisory Group
Assistant Zoo Director-John Ball Zoo

"I have reviewed the alleged cougar video on the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy website at www.miwildlife.org. The video of the two felids across a field taken in eastern Michigan do not appear to be cougars. First of all the distance and poor resolution of the video makes it impossible for me to accurately judge the size of the two animals. In addition, the video comparisons of the cats with nearby trees, etc. is unconvincing and confusing. The movements of the cats, particularly the spraying behavior does not look like any cougars I have ever seen. The movements of the cats are much more akin to house cats than mountain lions. The animal’s bodies do not appear to be long enough to be cougars and body size is not heavy enough. Neither cat seems to notice the camera. An elusive species such as a mountain lion would be much more wary when moving along the edge of an open field than either one of these cats. Coat pattern/color is not distinguishable to me at all. Based upon the above I do not think these cats are mountain lions-they appear to me to be house cats.

As for the other video of the cat moving through the snow it is not a mountain lion. Size, movements and coat pattern and color all appear to me to be that of a domestic long haired cat enjoying a winter romp in the snow!


I did show the video to three of our staff members (all three have experience working with captive cougars including a former zookeeper who cared for our cougars daily for twenty years). None of them thought the cats in the video were cougars."



Dave Moody
Trophy Game Coordinator
Wyoming Game and Fish Department


“After reviewing the video you provided, it is clear to me that the individuals are house cats, not cougars. I've been working with large predators for over ten years and have never heard of, or observed, a cougar lift it's tail the way these cats do. It's my understanding that cougars do not spray in this fashion to mark territories. Additionally, the various body movements, postures, and shape that these cats exhibit (arching back, head profile, and extended gut) are not consistent with cougars.”



David S. Maehr, Ph.D.
University of Kentucky
Department of Forestry
(Former Florida Panther Researcher)


"I looked at the video and it really looks like house cats to me. One of the cats appears very light in color, and the way they wave their tails around is not that of a cougar. The argument regarding size relative to a tree is bogus because there does not appear to be a way of showing exactly where these animals are relative to it. Besides, they just don't look like big cats to me."

Mark Jenkins
Proprietor

Cooper's Rock Mountain Lion Sanctuary
"I checked out the video and I also think they are housecats. The movements are all wrong for a large cats, and in twelve years of daily observation of cougars I have never seen one raise its tail vertically and spray like the other cat species I have worked with."

Furthermore the made up fake evidence to prove there claim:
MICHIGAN "WILD COUGAR SKULL" CAME FROM CAPTIVE ANIMAL NAMED "SASHA"
ECN conducted an independent investigation into the origins of a cougar skull found by woodcutters in Chippewa County, Michigan in 2001. This skull has been cited in numerous press accounts as evidence of a "wild, breeding population" of cougars in Michigan. It was also featured prominently in a July 26, 2004 video released by the Michigan Wildlife Conservancy.

Our investigation revealed that the skull originated from Randy Desormeau’s Northland Taxidermy Shop, which is located adjacent to the property on which the skull was found. In life, the animal was a de-clawed pet female cougar named "Sasha". According to proprietor Randy Desormeau, Sasha was owned by a man on Neebish Island in the St. Mary's River between the eastern end of the Upper Peninsula and Ontario. The owner, who does not want his name made public, bought Sasha from a breeder as a nine-day-old cub. She died from choking on a piece of turkey.

[Sailor]

What puzzles me is why so many on the site seem obsessed with distinguishing between feral pets, cougars who wandered into Michigan from other states or provinces, or a resident population that escaped detection? What difference does it really make who parented these animals? By now it would seem any reasonable person would have to admit we have cougars above and below the bridge. As far as their ancestry goes : " Just because the old cat had the kittens in the oven don't make them biscuits" anon. .

[wyle_e_coyote]

I had no problem finding facts regarding the crash. I will not share these as there are privacy issues. I would like to say that in a court of law eyewitness testimony regarding first hand visualization, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting is still considered good evidence (even in this day and age). That means the folks in Lenawee County who had a Cougar in their yard and barn are to be believed until proven otherwise. I cannot imagine seeing something, coming forward and then having a whole host of strangers inadvertantly calling you crazy or a liar. You cannot wipe out all eyewitness sightings without proving that the witness is unreliable.

Yes, some of the sightings may not have been Cougars (Bobcats, Dogs, whatever). And, as you can see with this thread, jumping to conclusions only makes skeptics more skeptical. But many, many credible and reasonable people have been seeing these animals. Lots of those folks know the difference between a Cougar and a Yellow Lab.


I was trying to stay clear of all this, but like Michael Corleone said.."every time I think I am out, they drag me back in" ...lol

What do you mean "there are privacy issues" ? No one needs names. Making things "classified" just makes it more suspect..uhhh can you say Area 51? :lol:

"I would like to say that in a court of law eyewitness testimony regarding first hand visualization, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting is still considered good evidence (even in this day and age)."
We are not talking about a crime here Woodsrat, are we? If you want to look at it that way, there are people that have plaster cast of large feet prints. Also eye witnesses that have seen, heard and even smelled Bigfoot. But we do not assume Bigfoot to be true untill proven that they DON'T exsist, correct?
I do think that the hair taken from the car in the W.UP is the best evidence so far, but I am with Linda..why was there no follow up? Hence the privacy issues I guess.

[deerslayer#1]

Only ones to put the reputation on the line are the experts in video, and forensics. Some say the cats are to small, some say one has to much belly fat. (could that mean it's pregnant?) If those experts had me on video commiting a crime, I bet I would be in jail if you nay sayers were on a jury. You believe what you want for whatever reason, thats your right. But those are very large compared to any house cat, and that is proven. How they got there, who knows? Are they wild, who knows? But theose are cougars. One appers to have belly fat????(breeding population????) If the tail in the air would prove anything, like I said let me know!!

[woodsrat]

Ken C. Why do the two experts that the MWC consulted want to put their reputations in jeopardy? The one guy spent 30+ years earning his good reputation. I don't think at this point he would give all that up over some Cougars.

Experts "trumping" experts? Is that the "my dad is stronger than your dad, theory?"

[Swamp Monster]

Anybody that thinks those cougars are house cats is never going to believe they are present in Michigan! Never.....never.......never.......!! Those experts in video, and forensics, are correct, those are cougars. If you think cougars don't lift thier tail like that, just wait!! Let me ask you? If someone had pictures of lions with the tail in the air, would you then give the video some more credit?? Let me know, you may be surprised!!


What does forensic and video experts have to do with proof of a Cougar on a video? Did they pet the cat and take dna sample before they let it walk in front of the camera? The only thing a video expert is good for is to prove that the video itself was not a good edit job and nothing else. You're watching way to much CSI!

The difference as I see it, is this.... You believe the MWC because you want to, not because they have proof. (read and re read Ken's post for a better understanding) I will believe them when they have proof.

And again, I think ther are cats roaming around...pretty positive there is one near a property I hunt based on the tracks, but wild is still the issue at hand.

The privacy issue is funny....time and location of such an accident is hardly private info!!

[BuckBass]

Anybody that thinks those cougars are house cats is never going to believe they are present in Michigan! Never.....never.......never.......!! Those experts in video, and forensics, are correct, those are cougars. If you think cougars don't lift thier tail like that, just wait!!And anybody who can read the statements posted by Ken C and say that all of those folks are liars is never.....never......never.....never going to believe that cougars DON'T exist in MI, no matter how suspect the evidence. And anybody who thinks the MWC is a credible organization should do a little research (hint: use their previous name "Michigan Wildlife Habitat Foundation"). They have a clear agenda when it comes to cougars and it has caused them to lose all objectivity.


I would like to say that in a court of law eyewitness testimony regarding first hand visualization, hearing, smelling, touching or tasting is still considered good evidence (even in this day and age). That means the folks in Lenawee County who had a Cougar in their yard and barn are to be believed until proven otherwise.If we are using this as the criteria, then I guess we have to conclude that there are 10's of thousands of cougars in MI due to the large number of cougar "eyewitness sightings" in every county in the state. If there are 10's of thousands of them then why can't we produce only 1 actual animal after 20 years of trying?

[KEN C]

Privacy lol, What are you talking about it happened on a public highway/ public road. There should be accident report and you can obtain it through the freedom of information act. Like everything sorrounding this cougar nonsense, everything is a little sketchy. Maybe someone will find a cougar skull near the accident scene ;)

[Trophy Specialist]

Trophy Specialist already has ......... :dizzy:
Actually I started a poll thread and it's interesting to see that at this point, only one person insists that there are no wild cougars in Michigan. A few are not sure, but the vast majority believe that we have large felines running our woods.

[Swamp Monster]

Becarefull buckbass.....we're argueing fact vs. emotion! Some folks are just desperate to believe and prove that there are wild Cougars in this state. Can you imagine the financial windfall that MWC might get if they are proven correct? It's one of their motivations to try so hard and even cross the line at times to get the attention they want and need to survive.

[boehr]

...but wild is still the issue at hand.
My point for some time now.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=25800

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=25800

[Biggbear]

Linda do I read you right that the hair sample taken from the vehicle in the Western UP is not to be believed? A hair sample taken from a vehicle that hit one isn't enough evidence? Now the Trooper and the person that hit the thing are in a conspiracy? The hair was planted? The cougar was hit in Montana and they drove to Michigan to turn in the hair? What gives anyone the right to call into question the validity of this situation? Just because you personally don't believe Cougars are in Michigan in a naturally reproducing setting you would call into question someones honesty?

[Dawg]

What do you mean "there are privacy issues"?

I've been in this boat before. There have been several instances where I've wanted to quote off the record conversations. Its hardly worth jeopardizing a friend or relative to try proving a point, especially on the inet. In an issue such as this some wouldn't hesitate to trash a faceless name for the most absurd of reasons.

Government agencies are political whether elected or not. There is an official stance and a public policy on nearly every issue. Kudos to anyone who has never walked that line or violated a trust.

[Swamp Monster]

Linda do I read you right that the hair sample taken from the vehicle in the Western UP is not to be believed? A hair sample taken from a vehicle that hit one isn't enough evidence? Now the Trooper and the person that hit the thing are in a conspiracy? The hair was planted? The cougar was hit in Montana and they drove to Michigan to turn in the hair? What gives anyone the right to call into question the validity of this situation? Just because you personally don't believe Cougars are in Michigan in a naturally reproducing setting you would call into question someones honesty?


Bigbear, considering that Cougar evidence in the past was planted, I think there is nothing wrong with questioning such a find! (maybe you weren't aware of that fact though....) And then ofcourse it;s funny that any and all info from this "accident" is not are cannot be public info because of privacy issues? Give me a break, thats load of BS! I can't wait to smuck another deer and tell the trooper that I want to make sure this report is not in the public records, hence my insurance company find out! He or she will get a good laugh out of that!

btw, I understand the no names, no quotes end of it...but the time, place etc is public information.

[wyle_e_coyote]

I've been in this boat before. There have been several instances where I've wanted to quote off the record conversations. Its hardly worth jeopardizing a friend or relative to try proving a point, especially on the inet. In an issue such as this some wouldn't hesitate to trash a faceless name for the most absurd of reasons.

Government agencies are political whether elected or not. There is an official stance and a public policy on nearly every issue. Kudos to anyone who has never walked that line or violated a trust.

Understandable, if Woodsrat made a promise not to repeat something.
What I don't understand is that it sounds like there is more to the story that is not being told. Why? If they have a dead Couger in Menomonee Co. then don't hide it in a Air Plane hanger and tell us it was a weather ballon....:lol:

[BuckBass]

Actually I started a poll thread and it's interesting to see that at this point, only one person insists that there are no wild cougars in Michigan. A few are not sure, but the vast majority believe that we have large felines running our woods.Actually, I do THINK that there probably are a few wild cougars running around Michigan somewhere. But to date I have yet to seen evidence that confirms my suspicions.

[Buddy Lee]

The facts in this case are clearly on the side of the cougar believers and the MWC. Nobody has any proof otherwise. ;)

[Linda G.]

:dizzy: It's simply amazing how folks take things out of context on this site...dumbfounding, actually, but then again, that's how good gossip works, folks, right??

No, that's not what I said at all. I am not inferring anything, just telling you the facts as they are known at the present time. If anyone, and that includes Woodsrat, has any other information on the background of the cougar hair sample, I know a great many people in this state, including myself, that would certainly like to know it.

As for my "not believing in cougars", again, keep trying. You're way out of context here. As I have said in NUMEROUS, ad nauseum, posts on this board, I believe it is very possible that there may be a cougar or two in the western UP, if there isn't at present, it's very possible that one might walk in from Minnesota or other points west, where they have been documented in recent years, at any time.

But we need to see scientific proof of that. Which is somewhat more than the information known at present regarding the cougar hair sample.

[deerslayer#1]

And anybody who can read the statements posted by Ken C and say that all of those folks are liars is never.....never......never.....never going to believe that cougars DON'T exist in MI, no matter how suspect the evidence. And anybody who thinks the MWC is a credible organization should do a little research (hint: use their previous name "Michigan Wildlife Habitat Foundation"). They have a clear agenda when it comes to cougars and it has caused them to lose all objectivity.


If we are using this as the criteria, then I guess we have to conclude that there are 10's of thousands of cougars in MI due to the large number of cougar "eyewitness sightings" in every county in the state. If there are 10's of thousands of them then why can't we produce only 1 actual animal after 20 years of trying?

Buckass,

I wouldn't say anybody is LIAR, because they say what they believe to be true, only if they say something they know to be false!! I don't think LIAR came out of my mouth!! People have said they have seen cougars in the wild
in Michigan, might have been something else, but if they believe it , don't make them a LIAR!

I dont think anyone thinks there are thousands of cougars in Michigan. They can have a pretty big range and its possible they can be seen by many in an area!! What do you mean buy produce?? Video? Hair? Eyewitness? Hit by a car? Foot prints? pictures? I'm betting some have been produced in other ways too!! Keep it real, this is a good thread!!

[walleyechaser]

Linda G.
Please read your PM
Thanks

[Adam Waszak]

The thing that boggles my mind are the amount of times peoples eyewitness accounts are taken so lightly. I am a hunter and an avid one at that as many others here are. If I ever tell someone I saw a cougar in the wild, don't tell me I saw a bobcat or a dog or something else I know what a cougar looks like and If I say I saw it I did. These sightings are sometimes made by people like us who watch OLN or the Outdoor Channel all night long and can clearly identify a cougar as they could a deer or a bear. Lets not write them all off so quickly. Are these animals "wild" well what is the definition of wild at this point? If they have been loose for a few years isay they are wild. Why can't we follow up with the people who had licenses to keep these animals to find out where they are or what happened to them, this way we can at least get an idea if they escaped and from where.

AW

[Munsterlndr]

Are these animals "wild" well what is the definition of wild at this point? If they have been loose for a few years isay they are wild. Why can't we follow up with the people who had licenses to keep these animals to find out where they are or what happened to them, this way we can at least get an idea if they escaped and from where.

AW

Adam -

I doubt that any cougers that used to be captive escaped, I think in most cases they were let go by the owners who got tired of dealing with them. I believe that it's illegal to let this kind of captive animal loose, so anyone who has done so may not be very forthcoming. It would be a lot easier for them to just say that it died.
__________________________
Munsterlndr
Curmudgeon in Training

________________________________

[Swamp Monster]

Yeah, and it's not the licensed big cat owners that were or are the problem....it was the unlicensed folks owning them illegaly to begin with......


I've never discounted everyone that said they saw a cougar, some I'm more skeptical of than others naturally but I do believe that most folks...outdoors folks anyway do know the difference between a Lab and a Cougar.

I just think that sometimes people jump to a quick conclusion, or if a person in uniform like a trooper sees one.....it's automaticaly true because they are a trooper. Last I checked animal recognition is not a required expertise in that line of work. And I don't trust the MWC or it's motives based on passed info and actions, so as soons as they claim something is what it is, a red flag pops up! Thats just how I feel.

[Swamp Monster]

And I think those that were keeping Cougars legaly (for whatever legal reason they could?) would certainly report to the proper authorities if ther big cat came up missing....might be some liability issues involved there. As far as the unlicensed owners.....doubt they'd be quick to make a phone call.

[Brian S]

I agree with Swamp Monster.

For me, being sceptical about the cougar sightings is the result of the MWC and their efforts to push their agenda.

I get the impression that they will stop at nothing to promote their agenda. So now, when someone in the UP says they hit a cougar and there is hair on the car bumper, the first thing I think of is "I wonder if they have any connection to the MWC"

[JRCOONDOG]

I have a real hard time swallowing this one. especially the statement from old Sheriff Cletus that they believe there are half a dozen of em just floating around. Where was the DNR when all this was going on. Do you really believe that they can catch a lion in a trap. If they were that easily trapped, we'd shoot all of our hounds because it'd be much easier to check a trap than feed a pack of hounds all year. If the DNR was worth their salt, had a recent sighting and fresh tracks, why wouldn't they call a houndsman? There is only one way to catch a lion, and if it's not a lion you can sure get a good look at whatever it is when the dogs tree it.

[Cooner]

Coonhunted last nite down in Lenawee.Treed 3 on the outside,2 dens,& put one in the ground.Did have the young dogs bump some trash though.No cougar yet, but we did see a weasel down by Sand Creek.The little bugger caught himself a field mouse.Even if we did tree that cat, who would believe us???I have a friend who has a place down on 156 south of M-34 & they claim they saw one last year-a cat that is, not a weasel.That cat probably wouldn't like livin' round his place anyways-too many bucking bulls.If anybody wants to try to ride one I can hook ya right up!!! :)

[MSUICEMAN]

i don't carry a camera with me many times in the woods, but if i saw one of these things approach me, the only evidence i'd have is the stuff in my drawers! LOL. i don't know what to think. maybe some pets let loose, maybe a small remnant population, maybe nothing at all. i've seen some strange stuff in the woods (including some exotics escaped from a nearby "ranch"). If i brought this up with people other than close family and friends that knew the situation at hand, i woulda been laughed at and called a lunatic.
only time will tell i guess.

steve

[treestand6]

I remember in the Muskegon area when there were no Coyotes--there were no Bear--there were no Bobcats,no Albino Robins, Michigan had no Wolverines--ETC!

Is it possible! Yes!

[Lunker]

I used to believe we might have cougars till I saw that MWC video. Since when do cougars have yellow long fur and a white fuzzy tail?

[Big50blaster]

I has talked to the guy that rote the article. He says it was a wild housecat that was caught in the trap. I ain't a great writer myself but thats what I thought he meant by sayin a wildcat had been caught.

The cop and the guy that lived there both saw the cougar leave the barn. Thats when they took the pictures of the tracks. So they knows what left the tracks cause they seen it leave em. Them tracks is mighty big for house cat!;) :lol: :tdo12:

So the ways I sees it there is a young cougar still out there somewhere.

I has a question too. Is Linda G. also Buddy Lee? If she is I wonder who else he or she might be. I wonders if they both voted in the polls on hear? Maybe theys really from Ohio where they has more votes than voters.:xzicon_sm :lol:

[Swamp Monster]

I has talked to the guy that rote the article. He says it was a wild housecat that was caught in the trap. I ain't a great writer myself but thats what I thought he meant by sayin a wildcat had been caught.


That part of the article was cleared up about 3-4 pages ago! :lol: That author worded his story the way he did for a reason I suspect......


Now, should we just speculate about what your other (or orignal) screen name was/is or are you gonna let some of those folks in on it that may not know??

[Dawg]

Someone is definitely fishing with high-vis line.

[woodsrat]

I think we should get everyone together and make up two teams of people from both sides of this Cougar issue. We could have some sort of competition whereby the winner decides whether or not we have a breeding population of Cougars in Michigan.

I've only been involved in this debate for a little while and already see that it is a no win situation. I believe what I believe and 'they' believe what 'they' believe. Maybe one day somebody from either side will be able to say "I told you so".

Until then......maybe a tug-o-war contest, or a shooting competition, or a fishing tournament, or an arm wrestling contest.......flip a coin? draw straws?

Hey, maybe we could apply this to deer baiting, QDM, buckshot, Fred Trost, MDNR, etc. etc. etc.

O.K. Never mind. What would we talk about? Debating is alot more fun! Forget everything I said.

There are Cougars in Michigan and you nay-sayers are wrong.;)

[SR-Mechead]

The problem is when someone hits a cougar with there car the non beleavers are going to say it was the last one in the state so there aren't anymore. Myself I have to think that in the UP there may be cougars,and the only reason I say that is because last year the Wisconsin DNR was flying around because of a spotting of a cougar and there are no fences at the border of Mich and Wis. Myself I have seen Bobcats and Yotes and Bear and Eagles and many other things by the Baldwin area and I would love to see a cougar.

[Big50blaster]

It still doesn't prove a damn thing.

Sincerely,
Linda G.

I think dawg is sayin I was fishin with high vis line, maybe I is confused and maybe he ain't sayin what I thank he was.:confused:

Butt it looks to me from the quote above that Linda G was skinny dippin in a empty pool.:lol:

[Buddy Lee]

I think dawg is sayin I was fishin with high vis line, maybe I is confused and maybe he ain't sayin what I thank he was.:confused:

Butt it looks to me from the quote above that Linda G was skinny dippin in a empty pool.:lol:

Just to clear things up, I'm not Linda. That was a joke.

She's much better looking than I am. :evil:

[Adam Waszak]

The Gig is up Linda now stop it already :lol:

AW

[Trophy Specialist]

I has a question too. Is Linda G. also Buddy Lee? If she is I wonder who else he or she might be.
How do you know Buddy Lee isn't impersonating Linda G? :lol: :D

[Adam Waszak]

I think we all have suspected this for a long time now so lets not kid ourselves. Buddy.....Linda whatever it is time this cherade ended ok ;)

AW

[Swamp Monster]

Yep, Hi Viz line and a dull hook! :lol: ;)

[CrazyJ]

hello

[mich buckmaster]

Whats a Cougar, is it like a MUSTANG??????????? :yikes: :bash: :SHOCKED:

[woodsrat]

Some reading material on the topic:

http://miwildlife.org/news-detail.asp?id=8

[KEN C]

unfortunatley the MWC is not a reputable source for cougar news.

[Swamp Monster]

unfortunatley the MWC is not a reputable source for cougar news.

:yeahthat:


Is the info surrounding this car/cougar accident still top secret?

[Buddy Lee]

unfortunatley the MWC is not a reputable source for cougar news.

...and how exactly is a reputable source determined? Sounds to me like whatever source backs up your opinion is the one you'll find to be reputable. :lol:

[Adam Waszak]

Stop it Linda :lol:

[Buddy Lee]

Stop it Linda :lol:


I saw a cougar in St. Johns. ;)

[KEN C]

Heres the criteria: Meet these obligations and you are credable.

1. The body of a dead cougar, or a live captured animal
2. Photographs (including video) Note: that grainy house cat video from Monroe does not qualify!!
3. DNA evidence (hair, scat, etc.) Note: The skull from a captive cougar does not qualify!!
4. Track sets verified by a qualified professional. Note the word Profesional
5. Other tangible, physical evidence verified by a qualified professional (i.e., prey carcasses, microscopic hair recognition, thin-layer chromatography of scat).

[Adam Waszak]

I saw a cougar in St. Johns. ;)


Yeah yeah wecan't seem to control them very well here but the real bigguns are in the okemos area ;)

AW

[woodsrat]

Stop it Linda :lol:


LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Big50blaster]

...and how exactly is a reputable source determined? Sounds to me like whatever source backs up your opinion is the one you'll find to be reputable. :lol:

I thank you boys and Linda is havin way two much fun.:lol:
Linda Lee I mean Buddy Lee or is it Buddy G? Maybe Kenny C is reely Kenny G?

Whoever you is I reely thank you is right bout Kenny C or Linda C. I thank that he picks out propaganda thats reputable for herself.;) :lol:
Remimbir grainy sevnty inch house cats dont count.:dizzy: :lol: ;)

Does thismake cents eh?:confused:

[woodsrat]

Another Article:

http://www.cadillacnews.com/articles/2005/03/14/news/news01.txt

Former DNR Deputy Director saw one in 1966 in Delta County. Boy, these released pets and cats wondering through Michigan have been around for quite a while without breeding.

The Menominee County car vs. Cougar accident is not top secret. It is just not up to me to release details of the crash-hence the privacy issues. Contact the police in Menominee County and ask for the police report under the FOIA.

The DNR doesn't dispute the Menominee County crash, why do so many of you?

An interesting side note. I did some follow up today on a Cougar sighting that was reported to my agency in September 2003 by a citizen returning home from work. (That sighting had tracks confirming the sighting, by the way). The incident details were turned over to the DNR the day of the sighting. I was told they have NO RECORD of such a report. So, I turned the info on the police report in today on the DNR website, on-line sighting report.

My point is this, I have been telling people from this site who see Cougars to contact the DNR. I will now advise people who have sightings to fill out the on-line Cougar sighting form on the MDNR website and then call the MWC and advise them.

Let's talk about the credibility of the DNR now. They are informed by a Law Enforcement agency of a Cougar sighting and now they claim they have no record of the incident. Not good. I wonder if they treat all citizen sightings in the same manner?

[Trophy Specialist]

woodsrat, very interesting post indeed but all that aside, I have to say that you have the funneist signature on this forum. :lol:

[woodsrat]

woodsrat, very interesting post indeed but all that aside, I have to say that you have the funneist signature on this forum. :lol:

I like the signature too. The French are always fun to pick on. We can always count on them for a good laugh and a whole bunch of complaining. When it comes to war I couldn't think of a better country to save. They appreciate it sooooo much. lol

Anyway, Cougars. I want to see responses from the nay sayers now. Tell me more about the DNR and how wonderfully correct they are on this Cougar issue. My professional opinion changed today. I have a citizen who is terrified to let his kids and dog out in the yard because he saw a Cougar running through the area (residential street right next to a large Middle School). The cops report it to the DNR and they don't have a record of the sighting? Nice! We have a police report on it and it's getting sent to the MWC. Maybe I'll make a press release. Hmmmmmmm.............

[boehr]

Woodsrat, who was the sighting report to? Are there pictures of the tracks that confirmed the sighting? Who confirmed the tracks? What action was taken to confirm the tracks/sighting besides just reporting it to the DNR? What action taken by you’re department to substantiate this sighting prior to reporting it to the DNR? If no action was taken to substantiate it does you're department just report everything that is reported to the department? Was there any investigation to attempt to determine if it was somebody's pet or is it an assumption it was wild? Were there any other reports of the same alleged cougar in the area by others? Were there any checks by your department to see if there were any possession permits in the area where a pet cougar might have escaped? I for one would like to see the report. Would you like my fax number? I’ll be happy to PM it to you. I’m always interested in the reports because I like putting together the information to locate cougars that people have illegally if possible. It takes time but my officers have seized four cougars in the last 8 years or so.:) Yea, I'm one of those nay sayers as to wild breeding cougars.

[Bluegill Bob]

Well we must have Panthers in Hesperia because just as you enter town from any direction they have signs that say “This is Panther country” and at the High School there is a big sign that says “Congratulations Panther wrestlers” :dizzy:

[Adam Waszak]

Well we must have Panthers in Hesperia because just as you enter town from any direction they have signs that say “This is Panther country” and at the High School there is a big sign that says “Congratulations Panther wrestlers” :dizzy:


same in DeWitt I see "panther Country" signs as well. They must really be spreading fast :yikes: Hesperia! now DeWitt! WOW :lol:

AW

[Buddy Lee]

“Congratulations Panther wrestlers” :dizzy:

Panther wrestlers?? Wrestling a panther sounds dangerous. I wouldn't try that at home folks...I'd like to meet these "Panther wrestlers". ;)

[Adam Waszak]

“Congratulations Panther wrestlers” :dizzy:


Yeah, congratulations for what? Getting you ass kicked by a panther :yikes: :dizzy: :lol:

AW

[captain jay]

Everybody relax on the Lenawee County couger sighting. The Lenawee County Animal Enforcement Officer was on the radio a few days ago and stated that she does not think the animal sighted in Tecumseh was a couger. She believes it was just a large wild cat!!

Well, I'm glad I am not her coworker. She pretty much just called the Deputy who saw it and confirmed it to be a couger....an IDIOT!! And those 5" tracks in the snow that it left when it ran away from the deputy......That's one big wild cat!!

Captain Jay

[woodsrat]

Boehr:

I sent you a lengthy P.M. Please P.M. me your FAX # or email address and I'll send the police report to you.

For the benefit of this forum, I suggest that the DNR establish a state wide protocol for Law Enforcement agencies and Animal Control Departments on the proper way to deal with these Cougar sightings. The local police, MSP and Sheriff Departments are getting these reports on a state-wide level and need some guidance from the MDNR on the issue. I also believe that the department (MDNR) needs to appoint someone in their agency to be the sole point of contact on this Cougar issue.

[swampbuck]

how can we get a summary of all the couger info that has been reported to the dnr website or any other reports they have recieved

[boehr]

woodsrat...got your PM, number sent, awaiting report.

If another police agency doesn't know what to do with a report they should have a person contact the local DNR Office and talk with the Wildlife Biologist. I get enough calls asking about firearm laws and CCW questions that have nothing to do with hunting that local, county and MSP Posts tell people to call me about so they can use the same tactic with animals.

By the way Act 274 PA 2000 LARGE CARNIVORE ACT, might make for intersting reading for some of you and some the responsibilities for pet cougars. Its a county responsibility by law. :eek:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=mcl-Act-274-of-2000

[Sib]

Cougar/car incident from DNR web site:

Cougar Hair Samples Verified

Contact:* Raymond Rustem 517-373-1363
Agency: Natural Resources


February 3, 2005

State wildlife officials today announced that results of DNA testing on hair samples submitted to the Michigan Department of Natural Resources last November came from a cougar.

A motorist reported hitting "a large cat" on November 2, 2004, and turned over hair samples collected from the bumper to biologists at the DNR Escanaba field office. The samples were forwarded to the Wildlife Division’s pathology lab and then sent to Central Michigan University for analysis. The incident occurred in southern Menominee County.

"This is exactly the kind of information we are looking for to gain a better understanding of what animals are present in Michigan and identify potential areas for additional work," said DNR Natural Heritage Unit Supervisor Ray Rustem. "Though the information indicates the presence of a cougar it still does not confirm the presence of a breeding population in Michigan."

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153--109757--,00.html

[TLWOODS]

I'm going to throw more out there on the sighting near Tecumseh.
Last nights local rag ran a story that the large cat was indeed a BOBCAT.

Now, as I read further I realized the so called expert who made this determination based on fuzzy photos, leaves alot to be desired.
Heres the bases for his determination...because the cat had a short tail. Now here's the line that made me fall out of my chair laughing. cougers are 8-9 feet long including the tail and can weigh between 80-200 lbs. (OK so far). The cat in the Photo appeared to be 6 feet long and weighed 60 lbs. That is one big a** bobcat. :yikes: I'm am no bobcat expert, but I don't ever recall hearing of a 60 lb bobcat. I suspect that is just a poor guess by someone who was pressed to make a decision based on some bad photos.

No matter what it was, we will never know the truth unless it is captured or killed. A bobcat or couger would be equally rare for the Tecumseh area.

[Hipskindt]

I currentky am living in Saddams old hunting preserve in Iraq and we have a report of a Lion being seen on the Camp three times in the last month. I have my doubts.

Tom

[DPESTUN]

I live in the Wichita Mtns of SW Oklahoma and we've lost calves to moutian lions in previous years. One cat left tracks in our tractor shed and after taking 3 calves in a period of 3 months,he disappeared. Wildlife biologist with the state said that the male cats will range 100's of miles. I saw that cat twice,once in broad daylight while traveling down the highway that splits the ranch and once on a deer census count under spotlight in the middle of a wheatfield. With them traveling from New Mexico to Louisiana, I expect to see more. We loose alot more cattle to Coyotes.

[vcr40]

Channel 4 (Detroit) news, just had a teaser for the news at 5:00 saying that a cougar had been sighted in a residential neighborhood.:confused:

Supposedly seen in Sterling Heights, 14 1/2 & Van Dyke area. 40-70 lbs.

[KEN C]

Plus it was reported that the cat at 16 & Ryan was limping. It maybe the cat that was hit in the UP. MWC must have transported it back down to the lower. :lol:

[xringer223]

I currentky am living in Saddams old hunting preserve in Iraq and we have a report of a Lion being seen on the Camp three times in the last month. I have my doubts.

Tom


Finally a voice of reason. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[thunderman]

some people just like to be on the other side of the fence. why? who knows, who cares!

having lived i colorado for 4 years, and taken a large cat (6 footer) and chasing a few others. i have no dought what i saw clearly in alcona co. spring turkey hunting 2002. was in fact a 5 foot 120-130lbs. tan male cougar! it sprayed the bushes, pizzed on my favorite deer runway, and chased a squiral half way up a pine tree
i watched this cat for 10 mins. this was reported to the dnr. we have been seeing tracks and scat for the last 10yrs. around this area. and it really surprizes me no one has shot one yet around the farms north of there.
also they do catch and eat coyotes, tracks in the snow don't lie.

so to all the none belivers:coco: i say, why don't you take a predator call out to some sighting areas and see for your self! if your so shore take your kids with you to, but don't take a gun because there protected :tsk: and i thought it reads ferrel cats were open season!

pets or wild there free ranging now, so now when we walk out of the woods alone not only does the flashlight shine behind once and a while it also shines up to :hide:

[bigmike]

It would be pretty cool to see these cats when I was hunting but I would be scared out of my shorts:dizzy: :yikes: :help:

[BWV]

I remember in the Muskegon area when there were no Coyotes--there were no Bear--there were no Bobcats,no Albino Robins, Michigan had no Wolverines--ETC!

Is it possible! Yes!

So where do you think all those animals came from? Hmm. Perhaps they were there all along and you never were in the right place right time. Coyotes and bears have been around for a long time, they never left.

[BWV]

some people just like to be on the other side of the fence. why? who knows, who cares!

having lived i colorado for 4 years, and taken a large cat (6 footer) and chasing a few others. i have no dought what i saw clearly in alcona co. spring turkey hunting 2002. was in fact a 5 foot 120-130lbs. tan male cougar! it sprayed the bushes, pizzed on my favorite deer runway, and chased a squiral half way up a pine tree
i watched this cat for 10 mins. this was reported to the dnr. we have been seeing tracks and scat for the last 10yrs. around this area. and it really surprizes me no one has shot one yet around the farms north of there.
also they do catch and eat coyotes, tracks in the snow don't lie.

so to all the none belivers:coco: i say, why don't you take a predator call out to some sighting areas and see for your self! if your so shore take your kids with you to, but don't take a gun because there protected :tsk: and i thought it reads ferrel cats were open season!

pets or wild there free ranging now, so now when we walk out of the woods alone not only does the flashlight shine behind once and a while it also shines up to :hide:

Now some people say that cougars don't spray.

[Big50blaster]

Some say that thay does spray. Thank of a 150 powned house cat pizzen on youre couch!:lol:

[Magnet]

I taught I taw a puddy tat??....................
Ooohh......I did tee a puddy tat..........
Oooohh.......Itta biggun too.....
Hic........

[Linda G.]

I see the debate hasn't slowed a bit...it has been a very long winter, hasn't it?
:lol:

Anyhow, to the soldier currently serving on Saddam's former hunting preserve-keep your eyes open. I read several articles somewhere a couple of years ago about that preserve, which stated that, bored with the lack of native wildlife in Iraq, Saddam had imported a number of exotic species, including lions, cheetahs, leopards, etc...probably illegally, but I don't think he was ever noted for doing anything according to international law.

I don't know about a 6 foot long bobcat, but I know for a fact of at least one cat, taken legally in the UP several years ago, that field dressed at 62 pounds. It was the largest bobcat that any of these very well known and very experienced hound hunters had ever seen. The pelt, which I saw, was very, very impressive.

As for cougars in Michigan, has anyone heard anything believable lately? Anything more about the cougar hair found on the vehicle in the UP?

;)

[BVW]

Pay no attention to BWV, My imposter. He doesn't even hunt. He has nothing better to do then come here and stir things up :gaga: . We can do that on our own. :cwm27:
Hey Steve (BWV), Coyotes migrated from the west, they didn't disapear from Michigan then re-apear.
By the way there is a show on Bigfoot on Animal Planet tonight (thurs) at 9 pm. For some reason i just thought some of you will be interested :dizzy: . I think they confirm some hair samples, scat and footprints! And they also have lots of Credible eye witnesses! Good enough for me! they must be here!! No bodies yet, but it's just a matter of time right? Sound familiar?? :confused: ?
Ben VW-

[BWV]

Pay no attention to BWV, My simposter. He doesn't even hurt. He has nothing better to do then come here and stir things up :gaga: . We can do that on our own. :cwm27:
Hey Steve (BWV), Coyote migrated from the west, they didn't disapear from Michigan then re-apear.
By the way there is a show on Bigfoot on Animal Planet tonight (thurs) at 9 pm. For some reason i just thought some of you will be interested :dizzy: . I think they confirm some hair samples, scat and footprints! And they also have lots of Credible eye witnesses! Good enough for me! they must be here!! No bodies yet, but it's just a matter of time right? Sound familiar?? :confused: ?
Ben VW-

BVW,

Check your PM. Oh and get my name right!

[deerslayer#1]

I see the debate hasn't slowed a bit...it has been a very long winter, hasn't it?
:lol:

Anyhow, to the soldier currently serving on Saddam's former hunting preserve-keep your eyes open. I read several articles somewhere a couple of years ago about that preserve, which stated that, bored with the lack of native wildlife in Iraq, Saddam had imported a number of exotic species, including lions, cheetahs, leopards, etc...probably illegally, but I don't think he was ever noted for doing anything according to international law.

I don't know about a 6 foot long bobcat, but I know for a fact of at least one cat, taken legally in the UP several years ago, that field dressed at 62 pounds. It was the largest bobcat that any of these very well known and very experienced hound hunters had ever seen. The pelt, which I saw, was very, very impressive.

As for cougars in Michigan, has anyone heard anything believable lately? Anything more about the cougar hair found on the vehicle in the UP?

;)

As far as hearing anything, I dont believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. But I did see some recent video of a big cat, I'm sure you have seen it yourself. I also noticed you and a couple others didn't join in on that one? Figured you few were playing it safe. Just waiting for someone to catch it, or claim it! So lets have it, it's been enough time. What was that huge cat in that video from the police car? I know you or somebody else has the inside scoop, so lets have it.

[BVW]

I haven't seen the footage, is it good? Or like the MWC? Wasn't that in Sterling heights or is it a different one? Does anyone know of any footage online?
Never been to Sterling heights, sounds like a great place with shopping, schools, and cougars, what more could ya want?
Wasn't there snow at the time of this video a month or so ago? where did the tracks go? Or do cougars travel on paved roads? And to aviod getting hit by a car is why michigan cougars are the best cougars in the world. :lol:

Found this: Police Chief Barnett Jones said the cat appeared to be limping. He said several traps have been set at undisclosed locations in hopes of snaring and relocating it. Residents should be cautious, he said, and should call police immediately if they spot the animal.

"That is one big cat to just be walking around the street," Jones said Tuesday evening.

For years, the state Department of Natural Resources insisted that Michigan's last known cougar was killed in the early 1900s. With all the recent sightings, the speculation now is that the cougars are exotic pets that have been released. They are considered an endangered species and are not known to prey on humans.

Jones said it's possible the cat spotted Tuesday was once a pet, then an orphan when it grew too big.


"It's something that happens all the time," he said.
.

[deerslayer#1]

I haven't seen the footage, is it good? Or like the MWC? Wasn't that in Sterling heights or is it a different one? Does anyone know of any footage online?
Never been to Sterling heights, sounds like a great place with shopping, schools, and cougars, what more could ya want?
Wasn't there snow at the time of this video a month or so ago? where did the tracks go? Or do cougars travel on paved roads? And to aviod getting hit by a car is why michigan cougars are the best cougars in the world. :lol:

Found this:

www.nbc6.net (http://www.nbc6.net)

[BVW]

I found another picture of the Cougar> at least 60+ pounds!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:sL8Jsnj_r9UJ:www.isfullofcrap.com/albums/Cats/buddha2.sized.jpg

[deerslayer#1]

I found another picture of the Cougar> at least 60+ pounds! .

Put that picture back up!! C'mon, that was nice to compare for the people who have never seen a cougar!!

[BVW]

I think this one is the guy from the MWC with one of his cougars.
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives/FatCat.jpg

here is a co-worker of his with one from thier video
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:On5Q7WG9_V0J:www.bruner.net/blog/archives/img/fat-cat.jpg

Sorry fellas, i know this subject is silly enough.

i'll return to this topic once we have a Wild Cougar dead or alive.
c-ya and good luck.

[woodsrat]

Check out this link and click on the interactive map and then click on the sightings, captures and kills of Cougars in other nearby states. It looks like there have been confirmed Cougars in many states around Michigan (Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota). Same issue in other parts of the eastern U.S. and Canada.

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/cougarconfim.html#confirmation

[thunderman]

Now some people say that cougars don't spray.
well i don't know about them not spraying. but i did see it rubbing and pointing its' ask all over the bush. when i went to look at it, pizz all over it. man did it smell. so don't worry your fears will be confirmed soon enough.

[hoytme2]

Check out this link!

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040727/NEWS18/407270345&SearchID=73203055288461

I work for a Parks and Recreation facility in Sylvania and last spring one of our supervisors reported to me that he saw a BIG cat behind our ball fields. I spoke with him about it for a while and he described a cougar to me. Tall with a long thin tail. Him, not being an avid outdoorsmen, I though he was full of it. Couple weeks later this article came out in the paper. Holy cow I said, you might have actually see a cougar!