Michigan Conservation Officers

[Adam Waszak]

There have been some threads lately condemning CO's because of a rumor or specific action of one CO. This is getting tiresome to me and I hope a lot of others as well. We can go to threads and argue bag limits, AR's, QDM or whatever we want to but why do so many feel it necessary to bash CO's when they are doing their job and in my opinion one of the most difficult jobs there is today. These are the caretakers of our wild areas and the animals that inhabit them. If you had a bad experience with a CO look back at it, were you doing something wrong? :rolleyes: Most likely yes! so don't come back with comments that pit sportsmen against CO's because then we all lose and more importantly the wildlife loses. We need to view the CO's as our partners out there and help them when we can and always support them. Of course there are some bad ones out there as there are in every profession but my hats off to these guys for doing a tough job and doing it well 99% of the time. Lets all give em a hand and help intead of create barriers between us. JMO

AW

[GVSUKUSH]

My only complaint about CO's is that there isn't enough of them, if I had it my way there would be one on every lake or state game area,like a referee of sorts :) . I believe they're doing their best, even if they're aren't enough of them. They definately have one of the most dangerous and difficult jobs around. I'm still looking forward to my first time having my liscense checked by a CO.

[Mickey Finn]

There have been some threads lately condemning CO's because of a rumor or specific action of one CO. This is getting tiresome to me and I hope a lot of others as well. We can go to threads and argue bag limits, AR's, QDM or whatever we want to but why do so many feel it necessary to bash CO's when they are doing their job and in my opinion one of the most difficult jobs there is today. These are the caretakers of our wild areas and the animals that inhabit them. If you had a bad experience with a CO look back at it, were you doing something wrong? :rolleyes: Most likely yes! so don't come back with comments that pit sportsmen against CO's because then we all lose and more importantly the wildlife loses. We need to view the CO's as our partners out there and help them when we can and always support them. Of course there are some bad ones out there as there are in every profession but my hats off to these guys for doing a tough job and doing it well 99% of the time. Lets all give em a hand and help intead of create barriers between us. JMO

AW:yeahthat: In all my life I've had 8 encounters with DNR COs in the field. One, the first, resulted in a ticket for 35.00 for fishing without a license. The rest were all positive. I understand that we in michigan have a long history of DNR bashing. But we should remember that this is a very hard time to be working for the state of michigan doing anything, let alone a job as challenging as theirs. We should appreciate the work they do.

[Steven Arend]

I'm still looking forward to my first time having my liscense checked by a CO.


Steve, buddy I figured That they would pick you out of a crowd and zero in on you. :lol:

Like I said in previous post before. I have never had a bad experience with a CO and I get checked at least 3-4 times a year fishing out of St. Joe. Its to the point that I know all my local CO and the surrounding that come in and help out once in a while by name. These guy have pulled some fancy tricks out of they're hats to catch poeple doing wrong. And I commend them for it, Thank you

Steve

[PrtyMolusk]

Howdy-

Thanks, AW, for saying what needed to be said. ;)

[NATTY BUMPO]

I've met a few COs up here in the NW Lower over the years at outdoor shows, sportsmen's clubs meetings, etc, etc. One thing that I can say about each and every one of them to a man:
They were all PROFESSIONALS (in the true sense of that word). Just wish we had more of 'em.

[Neal]

I don't think COs or any other LEO are above critism, but gripes with them should be taken up with their superiors. There will always be a few that abuse their power, these officers should be dealt with through the proper channels.

Neal

[Adam Waszak]

I agree Neal but lately it seems there have been too many blanket statement about CO's in general and not one specific CO. They scare the hell out of me everytime I see em cause I wonder what they want or what they think I am doing wrong :lol: But they are always talkative and friendly at least with me. Heck I got a ticket from one of em and I sat there anf talked for 30 minutes afterward about the area and what the guy was seeing doing etc. Tough job and they deserve our respect and support.

AW

[grizzlyadams73]

now before i start yes a majority of co's do a good job and are pleasent to deal with. but there are quite a few out there that have gotten the state employee brain washing. i have been checked many times while out in the field or on the water and let me state i have never gotten a ticket or the elusive warning.
there a quite a few co's i've run into that think you are guilty of something until you prove to them different. when ever approached by a officer i'm always polite and greet them. quite often there is no responce except show me your liscence.
we have had a bunch of over zelous co's up here and they usually don't last to long. there was one that was around here that was this way when he started. but after his wife kept finding varius animal parts in her mail box he quickly changed his tune.

[Adam Waszak]

Animal parts in his mailbox is a federal offense I believe and not the way a LEO should be treated, I wonder why he was the way he was? :sad:

[Bmac]

I agree completely that CO's and the DNR are unfairly bashed all too often. Yes there are some who are "bad" but I would also say there are far more "bad" hunters and fisherman out there.

There soon will be about 20 more CO's. A good friend of mine will be finishing the Michigan CO academy in a week. He will make a great CO and I wish him and the rest a great, safe career.

[Adam Waszak]

I have had some contacts with them in Lansing area and Rose LAke as well in the Maple River area but most have been in the Baldwin area. Maybe the people who hate them so much should do as we do in Baldwin, when you see em or are checked introduce yourself and ask if they would like to stop in for coffee. You may find they are actually people too and will respond in a polite manner. They are busy and only once has one actually stopped for coffee and a quick chat but these are the people who know everything in your area and who to watch and what to watch for. They will help you help them if you ask.

AW

[outsider]

I got ticketed and deserved it.
But since then every encounter that I've had with CO's was generaly a pleasant one and most times informative. They have even told me were the fishing was hot and the preferred baits. It's all a matter of additude and obeying the laws. Granted sometimes interpritation of the laws may cause a problem , but only once :lol:
OUTSIDER

[Mike Rathnow]

As a matter of fact the last one was at the breakwalls in Port Sanilac, when I was fishing for salmon and brown trout. He was plain clothes and just started talking to me. Then before he left he decided to check for my fishing license. I bet we talked for a good 45mins. before he asked to see my license. I jokingly told him I didn't bother buying a license until I would catch some fish. We both laughed, and I showed him my license. Hey as far as I'm concerned he was just doing his job. I was legal so didn't have nothing to worry about. Another time a female CO checked me up north deer hunting. We had a lot of snow fall and the deer weren't moving well. So I decided to head back to the truck. She was waiting at the truck for me. She asked how I was doing, then asked for my license. I opened the back of my truck, unloaded my gun. Then proceeded to get out my license. She also complimented me on that most hunters don't ever unload the weapons prior to being checked. I just thought it was the right thing to do, and would make her more at ease. As far as I'm concerned if your legal, not trying to lie to the CO, or acting nervous. You have nothing to worry about. I never had a bad encounter with any CO's.

[D_Hunter]

From one who not only works for the DNR but for Law Enforcement as well, I too get tired of the bashing.

THANK YOU !!!

[bigmac]

is, you probably don't like them or get along with them if you are doing something wrong.

[Adam Waszak]

I was fishin the pm one fall for salmon and I hooked a monster but it was foul hooked :yikes: A man dressed in flyfishing gear but not wet at all appraoched and watched me fight the fish for a few minutes and then land it. I knew what he was doin and I don't keep any salmon anyways so I grabbed the fish and he said "you gonna keep it" I said "no its foul hooked" he said "so" and I said "its illegal and you never know where those Co's might be hiding" and then i winked at him as there were other fishermen in the river then he kind of knodded back at me and was on to watch the next group of guys. I see it as a two way street you treat them well and respect them and DON'T BREAK THE LAW and your encounters will be pleasant. You have to remember they do think a lot of people are guilty and on the PM I have watched one after another snag, spear, shoot etc salmon and steelhead and they ticket one after another so they do have to watch thinking you are guilty until you prove otherwise.

AW

[WILDCATWICK]

now before i start yes a majority of co's do a good job and are pleasent to deal with. but there are quite a few out there that have gotten the state employee brain washing. i have been checked many times while out in the field or on the water and let me state i have never gotten a ticket or the elusive warning.
there a quite a few co's i've run into that think you are guilty of something until you prove to them different. when ever approached by a officer i'm always polite and greet them. quite often there is no responce except show me your liscence.
we have had a bunch of over zelous co's up here and they usually don't last to long. there was one that was around here that was this way when he started. but after his wife kept finding varius animal parts in her mail box he quickly changed his tune.

I lived in Gwinn and Marquette and I guesse with the way that the CO's get treated up there it really shouldn't suprise you that they aren't very up for talking much while they are trying to concentrate on the situation on hand. Lot of Michigan Milita in that county and none of them are receptive to CO's. They get shot at and run in to an awful lot of booby traps up there. If you had those things happen you might notice that you are not real talkative too. If the general public was nice it might breed niceness back. From day on a CO gets assigned to the Marquette county they are on the defensive because of the history of what has happened to CO's....your example being one I would use. But that's about the most harmless thing I've heard. But no doubt would piss someone off. That's the one thing I could never undersatnd about the U.P. For the most part everyone talks negatively about them up there. I was stopped twice while ice fishing. My experience was just fine. Matter of fact the one suggested that we move to the otherside of the lake because he knew there was a good weedbed there in the summer and maybe we would get some hook ups.! :)

[Ferg]

we have had a bunch of over zelous co's up here and they usually don't last to long. there was one that was around here that was this way when he started. but after his wife kept finding varius animal parts in her mail box he quickly changed his tune.

A "bunch" how many? Which ones? What have you done about it? Thats an awful wide brush your painting with.

I would be making the person putting this stuff in my wifes mail box my life's work - to make sure he spent the MAX amount of time behind bars.

You all should walk a mile in a LEO's shoes before you think he has an attitude. These men and women never know which one of YOU out there is going to be 'the one' that makes his wife a widow and orphans his kids.

What you see as an attitude is his way of going home to his wife and children alive every night. It's called being a professional, he/she not there to be 'your friend' he's there to do a job. Can he be friendly? Yes, should he be? Not necessarly, does he do himself any favors by being a putz? No. But some deal with the stress of the encounter better than others. Does it make him/her a 'bad' CO/LEO? No.

And I'm totally wasteing my breath because I KNOW there is no way for you to ever understand. No way. So I wont beat it to death.

Next time your hinny is in a serious jam - call your bar tender or buddy to safe your butt. See how well that works out.

ferg....20+ proud years doing federal LE.

Good post AW. Needed to be said.

[Adam Waszak]

Good point Ferg, my parents were friends with a Michigan State Trooper years ago really nice guy they say. One night he pulled over a guy for doing 5 mph over the limit in a residential zone, he approached the vehicle and was shot dead :sad: For 5 mph over he lost his life and his family lost him.

Now take a CO who is always approaching people with firearms in the middle of nowhere when a gunshot alarms no one, boats in the middle of nowhere and the contents are unknown, people shining in the middle of the night etc etc etc and most of the time they do it alone with no backup etc just them out there. Scary job if you ask me rewarding but scary. Great points Ferg

AW

[Buddy Lee]

CO's are human, and like the rest of us will make a mistake once in a while.

With that said, every last one of my contacts with CO's has been very positive, and I'd like to echo the sentiments of some others here...I wish there were more of them. They have a thankless and sometimes dangerous job, they should be applauded for what they do.

[Bwana]

I don't think COs or any other LEO are above critism, but gripes with them should be taken up with their superiors. There will always be a few that abuse their power, these officers should be dealt with through the proper channels.

Neal

Excellent post Neal. I typically do not get involved in the pro/con CO posts as it is kinda pointless. Each CO is an individual so to make a blanket statement that they are bad or they are good while referring to more than one individual Officer is rather pointless. I hunt in an area between Glennie and Barton City that receives a great deal of CO Attention so I can legitimately say I have a great many encounters with CO's. (I have never received a ticket btw). They check licenses mostly, had a car searched once, talked to them several times in camp as they were checking hung deer. I can say out of probably 20 experiences there has only been 2 bad experiences. Both times was with the same Officer (female, jet black hair, about 5'5") that obviously had an attitude problem. I guess my point is they are individuals, so why blanket them with praise or resentment. They are doing the job they chose and should be treated with as much respect as they present.

[Swamp Monster]

Good post ferg! I have had nothing but positive experiences with CO's. I should have gotten a ticket a few years back for running my boat up on plane before legal hours...I was just stupid and forgot all about the law even though I was fully aware of the rules. The CO just gave me a warning, and reminded me of the regulations on that body of water. He issued a bunch of citations that morning because he had to make a trip back to the truck to get a new ticket book! I'm guessing he ran into a number of people that started in with an attitude right off the bat!
I don't always agree with some of the DNR game management policies but it certainly is no reflection on the CO's.

[SR-Mechead]

Great post AW I have a son in law and step daughter who are both law enforcement officers and let me till you its not fun in there shoes. I got to go out west with a few officers hunting a couple of years ago, and let me till you they are no different than any of us. They love to have fun.
They also have a job to do just like the rest of us, and if they do there job we all benefit from it.
Have I ever got a ticket O ya long story but it was in the Baldwin area and it was the first time I was standing and looking at a mans belt buckel. Damn was he big. :lol: :lol:

[rzdrmh]

I have had some contacts with them in Lansing area and Rose LAke as well in the Maple River area but most have been in the Baldwin area. Maybe the people who hate them so much should do as we do in Baldwin, when you see em or are checked introduce yourself and ask if they would like to stop in for coffee. You may find they are actually people too and will respond in a polite manner. They are busy and only once has one actually stopped for coffee and a quick chat but these are the people who know everything in your area and who to watch and what to watch for. They will help you help them if you ask.

AW

good point. i stopped into rose lake last year to chat with the people in the office. one lady gave me maps of the area, etc, really helpful.. i told her i'd stopped in because i wanted to know the best area for deer hunting at rose lake. she told me, and said that, of all the people that hunt there, she only gets about 6 people a year that stop by for that type of information. 6????

i've never been stopped by a CO, but i welcome the day as well. my friend, in shiawassee county, had an encounter with a CO this year. he had just walked out with his shotgun, when a deer started coming down the fence row. he was wearing an orange hat, and he took it off when the deer was approaching. a CO at the road saw this, and walked out to him. the CO asked him why he wasn't wearing orange, he said "well, i really just don't like wearing orange." (i don't understand why, but that's him.) so the CO asks him for his license, and wouldn't you know, he left his wallet on the table at home. of course, the CO could have confiscated his gun, issued a ticket for hunting without a license, etc, but he didn't. he did refuse an offer by my friend to go up to the house and get his license. very nice, very pleasant, just doing his job. in fact, he told my friend to continue on hunting after he was leaving. (at which point my friend said, no, i'm going back to get my license.) now, he did get a ticket for not wearing orange ($140, ouch) but that's a lot better than the alternative, and of course, he wasn't wearing orange, so, he deserved to get it.

i think that most CO's are going above and beyond the call of duty.

[rzdrmh]

sorry for the ignorance, but what exactly is an LEO?

[Bwana]

sorry for the ignorance, but what exactly is an LEO?

Law Enforcement Officer.

[Swamp Monster]

Law
Enforcement
Officer

LEO

Oops Bwana beat me!

[Whit1]

"we have had a bunch of over zelous co's up here and they usually don't last to long. there was one that was around here that was this way when he started. but after his wife kept finding varius animal parts in her mail box he quickly changed his tune."

Do you condone this type of action? I certainly hope not. If something like this really happened do you have any question as to why a CO would be a bit cautious when approaching and dealing with so called "sportsman". Behavior, and I use the term as if I were talking with children (not you, but rather those who perpetrate such nonsense) like that should be roundly condemned.

Like someone mentioned above we haven't walked in the shoes of a CO/LEO and unless we do we really won't understand what really goes on.

A few years ago on Opening Day of trout season there were a few guys and a CO (Soper I think her name was/is) at the public access site where my truck was parked. The CO, other guys, and I chatted for 15-20 min. over general outdoor/fishing stuff. The fellows left. It was only then that CO Soper asked to check my creel. I still carry an old fashioned willow/wicker creel so it was indeed a real "creel census".....:lol:.

I had a great morning on the river, keeping four dandy brown trout, releasing several more. She was quite surprised and delighted at my success. I thanked her for not asking to see my catch when the other guys were present. She understood completely and we had a good laugh.

[7MM Magnum]

In the 40 years out in the field hunting and fishing I had only 1 encounter with a CO out there,... He just wanted to see my license. Very Professional and Courtious !!

I too give them a "Hats-off",.. they do have a tough job to perform and they are spread too thin to do it correctly in my opinion. The only reason you should be afraid to run into one,.. is if your doing something wrong and know you are. :yikes:

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS n' GALS!!!

[SteveS]

I guess my point is they are individuals, so why blanket them with praise or resentment. They are doing the job they chose and should be treated with as much respect as they present.


As I was reading through this post and trying to compose a reply, this exact thought came to mind. Blanket resentment of any profession, whether you are talking about a LEO, teacher, plumber, walmart cler, or whatever, is just plain useless and unfair. OTOH, a bad experience shouldn't be ignored or diminshed just because of the profession, but don't say that all members of that profession are bad.

I think that LEO's get more flak because of the nature of their relationship with other people while working. If I have a bad experience at a store, I can go to another store. If I have a bad experience with a LEO, I can't ask to have another one intervene. Additionally, most people only encounter LEO's when they have done something wrong (e.g. speeding ticket).

I would have to say that the majority of LEO's I have encountered were professional and courteous.

[trout]

LEO's are nice when some nut case has your kids and wife held hostage, or when you have been hit head on by a drunken driver, or some slob is poaching our resources.
Or when you live on a 25 mph street and the kids want to do 90 mph.

Or when some nutcase is threating everyone at the park.

911 is a number we all know and guess who that reaches out too?

I was no angel growing up but I have found great new respect for those men and woman who work as LEO's.

Sometime you find a person who is lacking in what you expect, but if you keep your cool the situation can pass and then you can move on.

There are idiots in all walks of life, don't empower them.

[Dawg]

Over the course of over 10 months I went through the majority of what is required to become a CO recruit and I can say first hand that it is a selective and highly thorough process. That doesn't include the longest academy in MI. The professionalism that I encountered at every level of the DNR (LE) would be an aspiration to most people I meet.

Furthermore, I've encountered 'over-zealous' in a few municipalities...right down to having my sandwich disected...so I know what that feels like. If I'd never given them excuses (loud muffler, cracked windshield, etc) I'd probably never met them - goes with breaking the law. In about 12 CO encounters I've met courteous individuals who seemed equally intent to inform, as opposed to penalization.

[scoobis]

I think that the COs are great and don't get the credit they deserve. i have an uncle who is a Captain in the DNR in Lansing and i've got to say i respect him probably more than i do most police officers. Because CO's and almost always stopping people with a deer rifle, shotgun, buck knife, etc. And we all know there are alot of hunters and anglers who decide to get drunk before the outing and have no respect for DNR.

I remember when my uncle used to live down the street from me, before he was promoted, he would show me the medals he recieved for saving four men's lives when their boat sank in the middle of lake St. Claire. He's inspired me to seriously look into a future in conservation.

Plus, in my few years of being an outdoorsman i've been approached by CO's twice. Once was to check if my cousin's and i had enough life perservers in our canoe (Which we did). And the second was was last month, my first time rabbit hunting. My dad and i were just getting things out of the back of our truck when the officer pulled up. He talked to my dad and said that we were braver than him going out in this cold.

I'd say alot of michigan hunters won't admit to liking the DNR and CO's but they do and appreciate their work.

[ArrowFlinger]

... I'm still looking forward to my first time having my liscense checked by a CO.
The only time I ever had to hand over my license was the first fishing trip after my 17th birthday. I have had a CO look at my stringer with nice 8lb. Brown, I had give spawn samples. They never asked to see my liscense. So you may be waiting a long time.

[AmericanAngler]

i just want to say Co's hunt and fish just like we do i allways like to talk to them because they may share some good reports and there just doing there job the only reason some are bashing them is because they must have got cought doing some thing wrong so when u see them shake hands and & ask for any good reports they ck many lakes and just might have some good info. AmericanAngler

[ArrowFlinger]

Most everyone has got it right. If your not doing something wrong, you have nothing to worry about. If you don't give TUDE you won't get it back. All the CO's I talked to were very polite. Of course I wasn't doing anything, so they weren't trying to give me the 3rd degree.

And sometimes you are in the wrong when you forget or ignore a rule (see earlier response about up on plane too early). Some goes for LEO's. On time a state trooper pulled me over for going too fast during a wet slushy storm. I pulled over and off the exit ramp and far enough on the shoulder so he didn't have to walk in the lane. I think he appreciated that enough that he only gave me a warning(that or he was giving me a birthday break)

[bawplank]

They are good for the most part ill agree.But I just got checked 5 times by 10 different officers and didnt like it one bit. I was doing nothing wrong any time just on the wrong lake on the wrong weekend. After that weekend I cant beleive how the dnr operate. They showed how unprofessional they were on that weekend. The officers were only doing their job but who ever gave the orders blew it big time.

[BarryPatch]

I got checked on Saddle Lake in Van Buren County about ten years ago. There were three of us. We still have a picture of our buddy in the smiling CO's boat being hauled off. Fortunately my other freind's parents were on the lake in another boat. The COs took him over there and they lent him the $ so he could go free. I don't remember why - non-resident or no ID - but he was going to back to the station if he couldn't pay. Nice guys:) .

[WILDCATWICK]

They are good for the most part ill agree.But I just got checked 5 times by 10 different officers and didnt like it one bit. I was doing nothing wrong any time just on the wrong lake on the wrong weekend. After that weekend I cant beleive how the dnr operate. They showed how unprofessional they were on that weekend. The officers were only doing their job but who ever gave the orders blew it big time.


5 times by 10 officers....Same day? Or same weekend? All the same what county were you in? I wasn't aware that there were that many officers out of any Dnr office??

[Ferg]

They are good for the most part ill agree.But I just got checked 5 times by 10 different officers and didnt like it one bit. I was doing nothing wrong any time just on the wrong lake on the wrong weekend. After that weekend I cant beleive how the dnr operate. They showed how unprofessional they were on that weekend. The officers were only doing their job but who ever gave the orders blew it big time.

How about some details? These broad statements is just what everyone is talking about - fill in the blanks and let us have the entire story. 5 times by 10 different officers doesn't even make sense, unless they were working in pairs - and I hardly think the DNR has the resources to have 10 officers on a single lake -

Please, if you will, fill in the blanks in this post, what where they checking you for? What did they say? What lake? When? Dates?

Thanks

ferg....

[Whit1]

I got checked on Saddle Lake in Van Buren County about ten years ago. There were three of us. We still have a picture of our buddy in the smiling CO's boat being hauled off. Fortunately my other freind's parents were on the lake in another boat. The COs took him over there and they lent him the $ so he could go free. I don't remember why - non-resident or no ID - but he was going to back to the station if he couldn't pay. Nice guys:) .

Something also smells fishy about this tale. "....lent him 4% so he could go free....."??????

[SR-Mechead]

5 times by 10 officers....Same day? Or same weekend? All the same what county were you in? I wasn't aware that there were that many officers out of any Dnr office??

I know for a fact that the Dnr has rent and officer for the weekend in Kent county to patrol lakes in the area and watch for boats speeding and other things. I had a couple of friends that were teachers that would help out on weekends and I think even holidays. I see nothing wrong with this. It should be safety first when it comes to boating.

[Adam Waszak]

They are good for the most part ill agree.But I just got checked 5 times by 10 different officers and didnt like it one bit. I was doing nothing wrong any time just on the wrong lake on the wrong weekend. After that weekend I cant beleive how the dnr operate. They showed how unprofessional they were on that weekend. The officers were only doing their job but who ever gave the orders blew it big time.


What were you doing to warrant 2 officers 5 times in one day. If it was that bad I think there was something going on in the lake that day and therefore I would have changed lakes :lol:

AW

[Ferg]

I know for a fact that the Dnr has rent and officer for the weekend in Kent county to patrol lakes in the area and watch for boats speeding and other things. I had a couple of friends that were teachers that would help out on weekends and I think even holidays. I see nothing wrong with this. It should be safety first when it comes to boating.

Nothing wrong with that, however, if they are running safety checks with mulitple units on the same lake, they should be issueing safety clearence documents so other boarding teams will NOT have to repeat the process.

It would be a horrible waste of resources to board the same boat 5 times for a safety inspection. Because there was no documentation of the orignal inspection.

ferg....

[Alpha Male]

I've lived in Michigan just over a decade and have hunted every year. I get checked every year, at least once.

I've personally had two very unsettling experiences with the MDNR Law Enforcement personnel.

One while attendant at an ice fishing gathering. CO pulls into the lot, starts working down the channel checking licenses. He's 50 yards away, I get my license out and remain at my hole. He gets to our group and is talking to two guys 5 yards away from me. Bait get taken, I set pole down, and casually walk two steps towards the group with license in hand. Other hand is ungloved and out of pocket. Response from CO? Spin wildly and place hand on sidearm. Before realizing it was coming out of my mouth..."EASY there, Barney...no more joe for you." He might have just come from a homicide scene or had a bad vehicle stop. I dunno. But that is no fault of my own...go play cowboy with some other Indian.

Second was a false report placed by the dog and horse trailer guys regarding a public land use dispute. They apparently didn't like us using the public land access trails through a dog training area, even though we were away from their activity and headed someplace else. So they call MDNR and report poachers shooting quail in the area. COs show up. We visibly unload (SxS shotguns) and walk straight toward them. First they said we couldn't have guns or ammo in that area. I had to tell him to turn around and look at the 6' x 10' foot sign right behind him that stated otherwise. Call supervisor...."Ok, we'll let you off there." What are those birds? Tennesee Red Quail. You can't hunt quail now. Season is closed. Ok fine, show me the season dates and a map of Michigan where we can find Tennessee Red Quail. Nah, I'll just write you a ticket. Well that didn't fly in court, and my young CO pal probably took some heat for that one when it got tossed. As far as I'm concerned, they wrongfully confiscated my property and exhibited gross negligence in the execution of their duties. A CO should be familiar with and be able to identify game birds. All of 'em. Period. If not in the field, then through lab analysis. Yes, they do that.

I can totally understand where the Us vs. Them attitude comes from. It comes from formative life experience on both sides. I'm as straight laced as they come, I had and continue to have nothing to hide. But you will never see me make warm and fuzzy mit der Polezi.

Lets' recap; Approximately a 100% record of being stopped in every fall. Approximately 20% of the time you can expect to have a negative life defining moment. The probablility and statistics of this single decade long experiment suggest at the very least that there might be an issue. Or not.

I used to get checked hunting ducks or doves 'everytime' in Illinois. Those guys were great. They treated you like a gentleman UNLESS you gave them reason to do otherwise. And we never did.

[Unregistered4]

Never had a negative experience, been stopped three times while hunting in the last 30 some years. Just asked to see our license and check out our game bag, very pleasant, made a little small talk about where we were from and stuff like that. Kind of funny, the last officer that stopped my son and I,(up in South Branch area) we were talking to him and come to find out he went to and graduated from the same high school in Port Huron. Their just people too, doing their job, that has to be, one of the most difficult ones out there. My cousins wife was an officer for a few years and she could tell some stories. Going in to St. Johns Marsh in the middle of the night, to check out a report of someone poaching. Can't be a very pleasant thought, knowing the guys your going in after are armed and breaking the law. I can't blame them for having a little bit of an attitude, sometimes. I think ,that probably 99.9% of the time, the people that are having a problem with an DNR officer deserve it. Just my opinion, Brian. P.S. It's kind of weird but, I've been reading these posts about guys fishing for years and never having been asked for their license. I've been fishing, one time in my whole life(45yrs.)and the first time out on lake Missuakee(sp), fishing with a buddy. Bang, officer stops us and asked for our licenses. Wow, good thing I bought one:) .

[Adam Waszak]

I agree Brain ;)

AW

[Ferg]

I've lived in Michigan just over a decade and have hunted every year. I get checked every year, at least once.

I've personally had two very unsettling experiences with the MDNR Law Enforcement personnel.

One while attendant at an ice fishing gathering. CO pulls into the lot, starts working down the channel checking licenses. He's 50 yards away, I get my license out and remain at my hole. He gets to our group and is talking to two guys 5 yards away from me. Bait get taken, I set pole down, and casually walk two steps towards the group with license in hand. Other hand is ungloved and out of pocket. Response from CO? Spin wildly and place hand on sidearm. Before realizing it was coming out of my mouth..."EASY there, Barney...no more joe for you." He might have just come from a homicide scene or had a bad vehicle stop. I dunno. But that is no fault of my own...go play cowboy with some other Indian.

Second was a false report placed by the dog and horse trailer guys regarding a public land use dispute. They apparently didn't like us using the public land access trails through a dog training area, even though we were away from their activity and headed someplace else. So they call MDNR and report poachers shooting quail in the area. COs show up. We visibly unload (SxS shotguns) and walk straight toward them. First they said we couldn't have guns or ammo in that area. I had to tell him to turn around and look at the 6' x 10' foot sign right behind him that stated otherwise. Call supervisor...."Ok, we'll let you off there." What are those birds? Tennesee Red Quail. You can't hunt quail now. Season is closed. Ok fine, show me the season dates and a map of Michigan where we can find Tennessee Red Quail. Nah, I'll just write you a ticket. Well that didn't fly in court, and my young CO pal probably took some heat for that one when it got tossed. As far as I'm concerned, they wrongfully confiscated my property and exhibited gross negligence in the execution of their duties. A CO should be familiar with and be able to identify game birds. All of 'em. Period. If not in the field, then through lab analysis. Yes, they do that.

I can totally understand where the Us vs. Them attitude comes from. It comes from formative life experience on both sides. I'm as straight laced as they come, I had and continue to have nothing to hide. But you will never see me make warm and fuzzy mit der Polezi.

Lets' recap; Approximately a 100% record of being stopped in every fall. Approximately 20% of the time you can expect to have a negative life defining moment. The probablility and statistics of this single decade long experiment suggest at the very least that there might be an issue. Or not.

I used to get checked hunting ducks or doves 'everytime' in Illinois. Those guys were great. They treated you like a gentleman UNLESS you gave them reason to do otherwise. And we never did.

AM - but, in my opinion your entire post reeks of 'attitude' - your 'negitive life moment' doesn't suprise me - just for the record - where your 'defining moment' (s) early in this 10 year period or later?

Get out of your car and start walking over toward the partolmen that pulled you over on the street - trust me you WILL NOT be happy with the results.

If the LEO want's to speak with you he will, you presented yourself into a situation that he already had 'control' of - your walking up behind him - put him in a different mode. I assume you came from behind because you said he spun around - placing his hand on his only protection from your advance is self defense and trained for every day - it ensures that he'll be going home at night.

ferg....

[Dawg]

"EASY there, Barney...no more joe for you."

But you will never see me make warm and fuzzy mit der Polezi.

LEO's are trained to read body language. Sounds like the alpha male was speaking clearly.

[Unregistered4]

LEO's are nice when some nut case has your kids and wife held hostage, or when you have been hit head on by a drunken driver, or some slob is poaching our resources.
Or when you live on a 25 mph street and the kids want to do 90 mph.

Or when some nutcase is threating everyone at the park.

911 is a number we all know and guess who that reaches out too?

I was no angel growing up but I have found great new respect for those men and woman who work as LEO's.

Sometime you find a person who is lacking in what you expect, but if you keep your cool the situation can pass and then you can move on.

There are idiots in all walks of life, don't empower them. AMEN

[Adam Waszak]

Seems as though the people here that have had problems with CO's for the most part were not really diplomatic about the process at all. When I get pulled over by an officer of any kind it is hands on the wheel registration and lic ready to be handed over and yes sir no sir and that is that. Sometimes they are nice and sometimes they just do what they are there to do but i don't sit there and argue about the speed or what I did etc. because it is foolish, they have all the aces in their hand at that time and like it or not your fate is in their hands at that time. Most of the time though respect gets respect and attitude costs you $$$$$ I have friends that got mouthy with officers and they paid for it because they chose the rules to the game they wanted to play. I love it it is always the CO or LEO who is the jerk when someone is cited for "breaking the law" :lol: :lol: :lol: I knew a guy who caught and kept over limit bluegills all of the time I told him he would pay someday and he said "whatever they don't care about bluegill" well he kept 75 one day and found out they do care about bluegill :lol: Funny thing was, it was the CO who was a jerk for giving him a ticket :dizzy: Do the crime do the time.

AW

[grizzlyadams73]

so from what i've read all of us who have had bad experiences with leo have instigated these bad attitudes.
know if a person gives the officer a attitude then he deserves what ever but when you are perfectly legal doing nothing wrong and cooperating with them there is no reason for there bad attitudes. yes thay may be human but when these same people have the same attitude day in and day out they need to be looked at by there supervisors.

[woodsrat]

I've lived in Michigan just over a decade and have hunted every year. I get checked every year, at least once.

I've personally had two very unsettling experiences with the MDNR Law Enforcement personnel.

One while attendant at an ice fishing gathering. CO pulls into the lot, starts working down the channel checking licenses. He's 50 yards away, I get my license out and remain at my hole. He gets to our group and is talking to two guys 5 yards away from me. Bait get taken, I set pole down, and casually walk two steps towards the group with license in hand. Other hand is ungloved and out of pocket. Response from CO? Spin wildly and place hand on sidearm. Before realizing it was coming out of my mouth..."EASY there, Barney...no more joe for you." He might have just come from a homicide scene or had a bad vehicle stop. I dunno. But that is no fault of my own...go play cowboy with some other Indian.

Second was a false report placed by the dog and horse trailer guys regarding a public land use dispute. They apparently didn't like us using the public land access trails through a dog training area, even though we were away from their activity and headed someplace else. So they call MDNR and report poachers shooting quail in the area. COs show up. We visibly unload (SxS shotguns) and walk straight toward them. First they said we couldn't have guns or ammo in that area. I had to tell him to turn around and look at the 6' x 10' foot sign right behind him that stated otherwise. Call supervisor...."Ok, we'll let you off there." What are those birds? Tennesee Red Quail. You can't hunt quail now. Season is closed. Ok fine, show me the season dates and a map of Michigan where we can find Tennessee Red Quail. Nah, I'll just write you a ticket. Well that didn't fly in court, and my young CO pal probably took some heat for that one when it got tossed. As far as I'm concerned, they wrongfully confiscated my property and exhibited gross negligence in the execution of their duties. A CO should be familiar with and be able to identify game birds. All of 'em. Period. If not in the field, then through lab analysis. Yes, they do that.

I can totally understand where the Us vs. Them attitude comes from. It comes from formative life experience on both sides. I'm as straight laced as they come, I had and continue to have nothing to hide. But you will never see me make warm and fuzzy mit der Polezi.

Lets' recap; Approximately a 100% record of being stopped in every fall. Approximately 20% of the time you can expect to have a negative life defining moment. The probablility and statistics of this single decade long experiment suggest at the very least that there might be an issue. Or not.

I used to get checked hunting ducks or doves 'everytime' in Illinois. Those guys were great. They treated you like a gentleman UNLESS you gave them reason to do otherwise. And we never did.

I knew this topic wouldn't stay positive for very long. Everybody knows how to be a cop better than the cops do. :lol:

Nice attitude

[Whit1]

Attitudes looked after by the supervisors? Hmmm! Who is the supervisor that looks after each of us and our attitudes?

There are some great lessons in this thread if we are open enough to digest them.

I put the personal pronouns us, our, and we in bold font because this applies to all of us......and that includes me.

[eino]

I was out one day with the intent to poach a deer.(Now don't everyone go bashing me. I know it was wrong at stopped doing it long ago). I was approached by an C.O. named Gary Raak. I was ticketed, and lost my gun. He was completly professional about the whole thing. I actually liked the guy. Because of him I stopped poaching and started appreciating a more sportsman like outdoors attitude. Gary,thank you.

With that being said....I don't like encounters with C.O.'s. I'll try and make a long stories short.

I was Salmon fishing in a stream. After fishing I was still dressed in my waiters but all my gear was in the bed of my truck. I was about 75 yards from the stream. Me and another guy had been talking for about 10 min. when something like 4 C.O.'s pulled up. One asked for my licence while two of them cupped their hands to peek through my dirty stained glass windows on my bed cap. I was getting my licence out and was asked if I caught any fish. He asked If I had a Fish all species licence and I asked him why I needed one. He said "your Salmon fishing and you need the all species licence". My reply was "I could be fishing for smallies". I know my answer sounded smart but I felt I was being interigated. I'm 75 yards from the stream, not fishing anymore, at a stream that is not a designated trout stream and being asked for my all species licence, DNR peeking in my truck. I didn't appreciate a bit of it. BTW, I was leagle and not issued any tickets.

That's not the only bad experiance I've had but that's the only one I'm going to get into now.

I'm probably not making any friends here but I don't even like when they simply ask for your licence and send you on your way. Think about it. Have you ever once had a police officer pull you over and sat something like "even though your doing nothing suspicious I thought I'd pull you over just to see if you have a drivers licence. Even they have to come up with something suspicious. Tail light out or something.
I'll take my lumps for something I've done wrong. If you see me doing some thing wrong I would gladly give information.

I know they have a job to do and alot of people won't police themselfs. (I use to be one that didn't). But I think they should have a reason to assume you've done wrong.

Ed

[Whit1]

Again, attitudes!.........:dizzy:

[duckcommander101]

I was only checked once this year, by a USFWS Officer, he was very nice and very professional. Checked my liscenses and my ducks and went on to the next hunters.

The year before I was checked 19 times during duck season, no kidding. I hunt prinarily with my sons who were 12 and 13 at the time and my lab for ducks. I was checked about half of the time in the same hunting spot ( off of state land on the Detroit River) and the other half at the boat ramp.

I have no objections to being checked at all, but most times were by the same couple of officers and there was never a violation (one time it was just my lab and I and basically the CO just asked me if I had killed any birds and if I had seen many and did not ask for any liscense at all which was very nice for a change from the normal check).

My real complaint is that it was pretty much expected we'd be checked every other time out (I hunt alot for ducks),and if it was at the ramp on the way in you could not even tie off your boat before they wanted to see our liscenses and to go through our equipment checking our shells and to make sure we had plugs in our guns (the ramp at the end of shooting time had four to six COs a couple times checking hunters).

LEO no matter what agency they work for risk their safety every day dealing with the public, for that they have my respect and thanks for their service.

And I have voiced some objections to being checked so much in 03' on another site, and I was completely surprised to have a CO who stopped by my Duck Hunting Groups cook out during the Youth Waterfowl Weekend who knew who I was from my avatar and exactly what I had stated about the 19 liscense checks on that site. I have got to believe he got a kick out of the look on my face when he told me he knew who I was by my handle on that site! It had to be priceless!

[Powerboat1]

I must be in the wrong place at the wrong time......I have been wandering around the Central UP (Marquette and Dickinson County) off and on for 25 years, fish Lake St Clair since I was a kid. I have never been approached, stopped, or checked by a DNR officer (although I have seen them on patrol). I am thankful for their service and also appreciate Lt Boehr's relpies on the law forum.

[Neck]

I'm a little biased concerning my attitude towards the COs. My grandfather ,Thomas Mellon, was a CO in the UP in the 1940s. In 1946, he drowned while crossing the Manistique River responding to a forest fire. In my dealings with COs, I remember that each of these people could end up in the same position and I tend to be very mindful of what these people face on a daily basis. Maybe there are a few bad eggs out there but I have yet to come across any. I have had pleasant exchanges with most. I follow the rules and I'm polite and this seems to work pretty well for me.

[bawplank]

Black lake , feb 4-5 , sturgeon spearing weekend, checked by officers in pairs 5 diff times, they checked all licenses and counted lines and a few went in our shanties. No officers were duplicate either so they did have that many different people working that weekend. I questioned them if I needed a trail permit for my sled to ride on the lake only and got differnt officers to give opposite interpretation of the law. One guy said when the fish arent biting we get lots of people with to many lines, one said if you fish all day youre going to get checked twice a day, on said we do a good job around here.

[Ferg]

Have you ever once had a police officer pull you over and sat something like "even though your doing nothing suspicious I thought I'd pull you over just to see if you have a drivers licence. Even they have to come up with something suspicious. Tail light out or something.
I'll take my lumps for something I've done wrong. If you see me doing some thing wrong I would gladly give information.


Ed

If you get pulled over by a LEO - it's because you have ALREADY done something that you can be sited for. Whither you get sited or not is totally up to you. You can not be pulled over with out probable cause. So when the blue lights come on it's because you have already commited an offense that you can be sited for. Again, where it goes from there, more often than not, is up to you.

I, in all my years, can't fathom any LEO saying to anyone what you quoted above, its WAY outside of real. Unless your passing through a 'safety' check point where everyone is being checked. They key is everyone. You can not be singled out and pulled over 'just to see' if you have a lic.

ferg....

[SR-Mechead]

[QUOTE=Ferg]If you get pulled over by a LEO - it's because you have ALREADY done something that you can be sited for. Whither you get sited or not is totally up to you. You can not be pulled over with out probable cause. So when the blue lights come on it's because you have already commited an offense that you can be sited for. Again, where it goes from there, more often than not, is up to you.

I'm sorry but I disagree 100% Ferg. Back in 1967 I was teaching some young kids how to brook trout fish in the Baldwin area by spruce and when we got by the truck it was dark. I pulled out of the area and was driving done spruce when one of the kids said that there was a creek that might have trout in it . I stopped my truck and shinned my flashlight into the creek and guess what. the blue light came on right behind me,and they told me there followed me out from where I was fishing,but couldn't stop me until I stopped first. After I told them what I was doing everything was fine. So you can be pulled over and I'm living proof. :lol: I will say it was a good learning trip for the kids. It scared the hell out of them.

[Ferg]

I'm sorry but I disagree 100% Ferg.......I stopped my truck and shinned my flashlight into the creek and guess what. the blue light came on right behind me,and they told me there followed me out from where I was fishing,but couldn't stop me until I stopped first. After I told them what I was doing everything was fine. So you can be pulled over and I'm living proof. :lol: I will say it was a good learning trip for the kids. It scared the hell out of them.

You hadn't done anything wrong - so he "couldn't stop' you. You stopped and THEN he investigated. He did not pull you over. If you had failed to use your blinker or something making a turn, he would have pulled you over before you stopped, had he wanted to.

You can't be pulled over without PC, but, even the smallest of traffic infractions is enough to pull you over, the stop then can lead to all kinds of things. Sometimes not very good things.

ferg....

[Unregistered4]

[/QUOTE]I'm sorry but I disagree 100% Ferg. .[/QUOTE] Basically, you are agreeing with him. The way I read your posts, " I stopped my truck", so basically he didn't pull you over. He was investigating your vehicle, that was already stopped, which is something officers do all the time.

[SR-Mechead]

Ok they followed me about 2 1/2 miles with there lights off and waited for me to stop. :lol: Ya right. Must have been a slow night. The statement if they pull you over you already have done something wrong. I'm just saying what happened to me MANY years ago.
I know ther job is not easy. I will be with a couple of LEOs this weekend and its fun giving them some crap. I hunt with them, I break bread with them and we have a hella good time when I'm in Mich.

[ESOX]

Just a couple short stories of my more recent experiences with CO's, I have told these before but......
March 2001 I launch at the Harley Ensign launch, first launch of the year. As we get to the river mouth, a passenger says "Is there always this much water back here?" I look and the water is 6" deep on the floor that is about 1' above the deep vee. I turn around and head a full throttle through the no wake zone back to the ramp. We get to the ramp and a CO approaches us. I quickly explained why I was running full bore through the no wake zone. Her reply was that she wasn't really concerned about that, but was wondering if we had caught anything. We explained that we hadn't even had a chance to fish. We chatted a bit while the boat drained on the trailer and I removed the plug from the livewell outlet and put it in the proper hole.:eek: She wished us luck and we went on our way. She could have easily written me a ticket, and I would have fought it in court, possibly won, but superior judgment on her part kept my stupidity from being an issue. :)
July '01 A CO tickets a pair of jet skiers that kept running about 40' from my kid and I as we were attempting to fish. I don't even know where he came from, all of a sudden he was just there. Do they have cloaking devices??;)
'02 and '03 License checked while fishing. One of those times I was casting from shore while waiting for my partner to show up for a launch. I had managed to work my way down the shore several hundred feet from the boat, where my license was in the glove box. After it was requested, and I told them where it was,we retrieved my license and I was reminded to have my license on my person in the future. Another citation I could have gotten, but didn't because the CO exercised a bit of prudence.
Last year, Checked for fishing license, which I actually had on my person after the previous reminder. We chatted a bit, then they headed off to check others. They issued two tickets in short order, one for undersized fish and one for no license.
One thing that stands out....everyone who got a ticket really did deserve one.

[walleyechaser]

I've had numerous encounters with COs over the years with only a couple of bad experiences. I try to get to know who the COs are in the areas I frequent and for the most part they are very professional and courtious.
At one time we had a CO in a prior area I lived in who had a real attitude to the point I asked him one day why it seemed like everytime I saw him seemed
liked he was having the worst day of his life. He didn't appreciate that at all
and made a point of showing his displeasure with my question by being a complete horses $88 everytime we encountered each other for the rest of that year.
When I ran into one of his fellow officers that fall I mentioned his name and he just kinda smilled and shook his head. That CO was transferred shortly after so I must not have been the only one to have an issue with him.
The other experience involved a license check on Lake Erie and the apparently new CO didn't know or recognize what a lifetime sportsmans
license looked like or it even existed until another responding CO "educated"
her.
Other than that, my only complaint is that there's not enough of them to
go around when you need them.

[Alpha Male]

Sigh...this is how BB forums de-evolve.

None of you know me. None of you were present when the incidents I relayed occurred. You only know what I have presented for your consumption. When you plug that into the equation that is 'your world', your perception and mindset when you read the post, a reasonable man would conclude that no conclusion could be made. Instead, very personal attacks are launched based upon assumptions that the responder has accepted for fact.

Woodsrat - Seems to me I had some very positive things to say about conservation officers as a whole. Looks to me like the majority of my contacts in Michigan were uneventful / professional /cordial. Same for out of state contacts with COs. I detailed ONLY two less than pleasant instances, coincidentally both happened in Michigan. Also, what did I say that caused you to think that 'everyone' knows how to be a better cop than the cops? And how is it that you are certain that my life experience does not include professional law enforcement?

Ferg - Yeah, I've got an attitude. After the fact. And no, your assumption (visual image that your mind created after reading my post) is entirely incorrect. You weren't there. I'd tell you specifically what happened, but really have no need to be accepted by a man as judgemental as you have demonstrated yourself to be.

Dawg - I am NEVER anything but cordial, professional, and cooperative in instances of contact with LEO. Yes, I am a large mammal, yes, I have a commanding presence. I know what 'tells' are, too. The levity that my Barney comment brought to the contact was enough to diffuse an otherwise very tense quarter of a second. Thanks for judging me.

grizzlyadams73- That's exactly my point, thank you.

And Adam, you said " I dont sit there and argue...what I did etc. because it is foolish, they have all the aces in their hand at that time and like it or not your fate is in their hands at that time. Most of the time though respect gets respect and attitude costs you $$$$$" I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, when those charged with enforcing the law do not understand it (because of needless complexity?), it becomes an adversarial game of resources, and an exercise of the proficiency of legal technicians within our legal system (not a justice system). It is no longer about right or wrong or the protection of resources. The job of garbage men is to put garbage in the truck and take it to the dump. It gets sorted out there, and once in awhile they find something that should not have been thrown away. You're left with the experience and the bill.


Originally Posted by trout
"LEO's are nice when some nut case has your kids and wife held hostage" Response - we are all infinitely more likely to have mundane contact with LEOs throughout our lives. Nice may not be the appropriate adjective. Maybe "unfortunately necessary." And what the heck kind of life would we have created to put our loved ones in this position??? Sorry, but my family doesn't go to so much to the mall alone or unarmed.

or when you have been hit head on by a drunken driver Response - Why? To pick up the pieces? What's done is done. Personal responsibility (of the drunk driver) has failed at that point. Replace drunk driver with 23 y/o female white putting on makeup during rush hour. To hell with the cops, I want EMS.

, or some slob is poaching our resources. Response - No argument there, but again, the vast majority of people are generally law abiding. Let's not treat them like they are guilty til proven otherwise.

Or when you live on a 25 mph street and the kids want to do 90 mph. Response - Yeah...I can hear that call going into dispatch now. How 'bout we go talk to the 'kids' and their parents. Kids drive recklessly. Always have, always will. Doesn't make it right, but it does make it impossible to prevent from one man's (department's) perspective.

Or when some nutcase is threating everyone at the park. Response - Leave the park. You alone are responsible for your safety. What else would you propose? Call the cops & wait for them to show up? If I take my kids to the park and there is an individual there who "doesn't fit", I'm probably not going to let them play on the monkey bars to begin with.

911 is a number we all know and guess who that reaches out too? Response - Probably a young female who has received a modicum of training at best, marginal listening skills, makes $23k a year, and who will be asking all kinds of questions during a time at which your efforts are probably best expended trying to save your own life or vacate the area. You don't call 911 to tell them that your neighbor's kids are driving too fast down your street.

I was no angel growing up but I have found great new respect for those men and woman who work as LEO's. Response - I was an angel, and I do respect the job. Someone has to do it. If the person behind the badge decides to show their ass, then that baseline of respect for them and the department they represent can be eroded. See also Community Policing.

Sometime you find a person who is lacking in what you expect, but if you keep your cool the situation can pass and then you can move on. Response - Yes, as long as we hire out of the human race, issues will exist. Most times keeping your cool works. Sometimes it doesn't. Life is analog, sloppy.

There are idiots in all walks of life, don't empower them. Response - Yes, there are idiots. But even if you don't 'empower' them, someone else might already have.

And that's all that I've got to say about that. :chillin:

[Adam Waszak]

Well I am not here to say they are all perfect by any means but I merely started this thread because I was getting sick and tired of the bashers such as Trost who hammer these ladies and gentlemen every single opportunity they get. And it is tiresome to hear about how that CO or this CO is a jerk because he have me a ticket for this or that. Thier job is so broad in scope that it is not about getting poachers only it encompasses so much more than that. I do not agree with some of the practices or tactics of the DNR and I doubt there is anyone who agrees with them 100% of the time but the CO's are doing as they are instructed and they are not the policy makers. It is almost a Michigander thing that we feel we should not trust and dislike the DNR and everyone who is employed by them. This is what we need to get past I think. I will teach my children to respect authority and follow the rules and that goes for CO's or state troopers or the county boys. I guess you all will do what you feel is right and that is up to you. We can question things in the department but we need not bash the protectors of our states wildlife. OK I am done I think ;)

AW

[Alpha Male]

Good post, Adam.

The entire climate of outdoor recreation is different here in Michigan. (Like I said, I'm a transplant.) I think that plays alot into the relations between DNR and the people who buy their licenses.

In defense of the MiDNR COs, I can say this after having hunted in four countries on two continents and many states here at home - Michigan has THEE HIGHEST concentration of BUBBAS I have ever encountered, bar none. Not all of these are residents...for some reason we seem to attract an over abundance of out of state asses, too. Of course, guys who care enough to gather and converse here at this site probably don't fit that generalization very well, as expected. If'n ya ain't a Bubba, don't take offense, only the guilty need feel that way.

Wisconsin has traditionally had issues similar to what we are discussing here. We're not unique, but it is an issue that seems to be exacerbated here.

[eino]

If you get pulled over by a LEO - it's because you have ALREADY done something that you can be sited for. Whither you get sited or not is totally up to you. You can not be pulled over with out probable cause. So when the blue lights come on it's because you have already commited an offense that you can be sited for. Again, where it goes from there, more often than not, is up to you.

I, in all my years, can't fathom any LEO saying to anyone what you quoted above, its WAY outside of real. Unless your passing through a 'safety' check point where everyone is being checked. They key is everyone. You can not be singled out and pulled over 'just to see' if you have a lic.

ferg....

Ferg, your right. I understand that. The qoute was a hypothetical question to wich most people would respond with your answer. They KNOW you've done something wrong already. So why can the DNR approach you in a similar circumstance and ask for your licence? If I've done nothing wrong and they have no reason to belive I've done something wrong I don't like being bothered with their questions. After they get my licence they start asking questions. On four different occasions I felt like they were digging for something illeagle. "Did you catch any fish? Shoot any game? Where are you parked? Where are you headed?" Okay, so we don't wear our licences on our backs anymore. I still don't think that gives them the right to make random checks to see if you have one. Just like police officers can't make a random stop to check for your drivers licence.

I understand they have an extremly tough job. I would'nt want it. I know they put their lives on the line to protect our fish and game laws. I would hate to exlain to my family that I was shot or something over a stupid fish under leagle limit. I actually do have respect for them.
Remember when your dad would tan your hide? You probably did'nt like him much for it. But most of us still respected him anyway.
I don't hate the C.O.'s. I just would rather they have a reason when they approach people.

Ed

[WILDCATWICK]

On four different occasions I felt like they were digging for something illeagle. "Did you catch any fish? Shoot any game? Where are you parked? Where are you headed?"

But that is what any good law enforcement agent does. Even border patrol. They try to trip you up. If your not lying and have nothing to hide then there is no problem.

Okay, so we don't wear our licences on our backs anymore. I still don't think that gives them the right to make random checks to see if you have one.

How elese are we going to stop illegal hunting and poaching? Only question someone when they have already shot a deer or taken a fish without a liscense? There is not quite the same epidemic of people driving without drivers liscense and people hunting and fishing without a liscense. The LEO's are pretty good to about not ruining a hunt. I've never had one ruin mine but they have been waiting at my truck when I'm done. No harm, no foul IMHO.



I don't hate the C.O.'s. I just would rather they have a reason when they approach people.

They do have a reason. Your hunting or fishing. And they are responsible for the proper managment of the game. Which includes managing it from us too. I much rather have them investigate than not. Imagine how many poachers would never get caught if they only stopped people when they saw blood come out of a tailgate?

[Neal]

Thanks for the well intentioned Post Adam ;)
And Thank You CO's


I think we've worn this one out.

Closed