If you could buy land.....

[QuakrTrakr]

If you could buy land in any county, lets say north of M-20, exclusively for deer hunting, where would you buy? We sold our property and are looking to buy somewhere else with good deer numbers. I was thinking either the Clare area, or in the UP somewhere. This money's burning a hole in my pocket!!! :help:

[Ferg]

But - If I was going to do it - I would look for something with ONE border against a large state/fed forrest - I know there are tresspass issues with that - but - I think controlling a single border would be 'doable' - and the benifits of having a large track of land you know, or at least pray, go undeveloped is of great value.

I guess it would depend on how much land you were looking for too - if you were going to get a large independent track - then a common boarder with state/fed land is not necessary - but I would recommend for a smaller track -

ferg....
YMMV

[farmlegend]

why NORTH of M-20? :dizzy:

[Buddy Lee]

why NORTH of M-20? :dizzy:

Jackson or Hillsdale County would be ideal...

[Swamp Monster]

I wouldn't go any farther north than Mecosta or Isabella. The quantity and more importantly (in my case) the quality of deer goes down hill fast. Plus that area is a failry short drive from just about anywhere in the lower peninsula. Certain areas of the UP would nice as well....might be able to double the value of your dollar as well.
Personally I would draw a line from Allegan county south through Van Buren county and then head west across this portion of Michigan. But in this area I we be cautious of the parcel size and neighbors....never know when 3 sides of your property will be subdivisions, and unless you own substantial acreage, you get the shaft! Ofcourse, you'll never lose you initial investment and you stand a good chance at a substantial windfall should that ever happen.

[drwink]

go along with what ferg said myself, kinda what I've been looking for myself, ablout 15 years I have kept my eye's open. At times when I had the money I couldn't find what I wanted in the area I wanted. when I didn't have the money, I missed it. So the search goes on.

Now if you only wanted it for hunting, once a year I'd go to the western UP, to far for weekend trips, more land for the bucks (no pun intended), possibly even closer would be Delta county, maybe some paper company land, I know they used to sell some of that off, just a thought.

[Joeker51]

Partial to the UP. Drummond Island or towards the western end.

[snakebit67]

Depends on what you are looking for, how far do you want to go etc....
Cheapest land I have found is in the western U.P. If interested give me a PM and i can give you the names of a couple of the local "land barrons" up there.

[QuakrTrakr]

I found some acreage in the western UP around $500-$600 and acre. I don't mind the drive, but how's the deer population up there? I don't want to go south because of the price of the land, and the hunting pressure. How's the Rudyard area? Or Raber area? If I can get the property cheap enough, I'll still have money to build a place on it. We've got 5 guys who hunt, so we're looking in the 80 - 200 acre size. We've been in the Cheboygan and Houghton Lake areas already. Both places, the neighbors split their 80's into little 10 acre plots and sold them. Every little 10 had 4 or 5 new hunters on it!

[Bwana]

Depends what you want it for. If you are simply looking for Deer it is hard to beat the Agricultural area (defined as South of 46). If you are looking for "trophys" then again, it would be hard to beat the Agricultural area. If you are looking for alotta land for relatively few dollars then the UP is the way to go; you'll still have a chance at trophys but they are harder to come by.

Personally, I have been actively looking for Land for about eight months now. I have some strict requirements that are definately slowing the purchase, but I am willing to wait for what I want. For me, I enjoy the Wilderness experience. I have hunted "farm country" and shot better deer than "wilderness bucks' but my personal preferance leads me to the forests. I am looking in the UP (I currently hunt near Glennie/Barton City). I hunt Bear and bobcat as well, so the UP is a logical choice. I have focused my efforts on the Alger County area but have started looking farther South in Delta and over into Dickenson; I don't care for N. Menominee.

The farther West you go the cheaper the land becomes. If you like the Swamps the EUP is hard to beat. Just my .02

[Spikehorn Outlaw]

with DRWINK....If I were to buy some land, I would also think about the U.P. Like DRWINK said, more land for the BUCK!! (I liked the saying ;) )

Good Luck with the "Land" Hunting.

[Luv2hunteup]

How's the Rudyard area?

Rudyard area has reasonably priced land, rivers, mixed topography, agricultural land and good highway access (exit 373).

Every year there are some fine bucks taken and does too. Depending on the parcel the age structure is pretty good. Buck to doe ratio is not too far out of whack.

If you are thinking of buying in the area and have of piece of land in mind don't forget to stop in the Soo's conservation district office. They can give you a soil inventory which will help determine what is best suited for your soils.

Bear numbers are good.

Public land is close by.

Goose season is great in the hayfields.

The shortest growing season in the state is a negative.

About 4 hours closer than the western UP.

There's a 320 for sale for about $230,000, it's a little to the NE of Rudyard's exit.

[farmlegend]

Couple brief words of advice for you guys looking for land.

1. Look hard, be persistent, make comparisons, and take your time. It took me four years to acquire my property. Had a couple deals fall through on other parcels in other areas before things worked out. I know a guy that got impatient and over-paid for a piece of ground that really isn't anything special.

2. If I had to list the #1 most-overlooked attribute that hunters usually completely ignore as a factor in land selection, it would be soil quality. Poor soil can be improved, but that crappy ground will always be a limiting factor for you. Fertile soil generally produces healthier critters, whatever they may be. Also, if you ever have the ambition to develop food plots, they will be more productive on better ground.

3. A year-round water source is important. If you don't have it, at least be sure that your soil and aquifers are such that you can create water holes.

4. Many guys get hung up on price/acre and parcel size. If it were up to me, I'd take 40 acres of fertile ground with a year-round water source in a good location over 300 acres of sandy jackpine woods surrounded by state forest every time.

[Pinefarm]

Yes, why north of M-20? Also, it was suggested that you buy property with public land next door. Take if from someone who knows, DO NOT buy property anywhere close to public land if it's in the NLP! EVER, Do not even consider it. This was the thinking 20 years ago, but it's the worst thing you'll ever do when buying deer land in the NLP. In the UP, you may still get away with it. If a real estate agent suggests it for NLP land, tell him flat out "NO". Our property's west line bordering public land is by far it's worst liability. You'll never have any control over anything. Tresspass isn't the issue, but a rotating door of new hunters hunting your line and not being concerned with what they shoot is a constant. If there's 6 spike horns around, the public land hunters won't pass on them, but a private neighbor probably will. And if you want to use public land, you're always free to. So why move next to what is already "free" land? Plus, you'll probably find that you never set foot on the public land next to you, once it's next to you. 99.9% of your best hunting land is miles from any public land. Buy something down state that's wet and swampy with some corn nearby and maybe a small subdivision or golf course close too that can act as a santuary.
But buying anything near public land in the NLP is like buying waterfront property only to find out you bought land in Winsor and it overlooks River Rouge. :lol: Trust me. I'd never sell our family owned club, but if I ever did, having that public land border would be the reason. I know 2 different guys by me that are selling out and moving their hunt clubs downstate towards Hillsdale and south of GR. I do not blame them.

[Magnet]

looking to buy somewhere else with good deer numbers. I was thinking xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, or in the UP somewhere.

Oxy-moron? ;)

[Pinefarm]

Farmlegend's #4 is the absolute truth. 40 acres of good cover somewhere around GR is way better than 100 acres of scrub jackpine near Baldwin. IMHO

[plugger]

I hunted southern michigan for the first time this year and I know thats where I would be looking.

[7MM Magnum]

Well I'll tell ya,... My next major land purchase is going to be out of Michigan out West ! :cool: The wife and I are looking around in Montana or the Wyoming areas. :D

But if I was going to purchase some more land in Michigan it would be either in Dickinson, Iron, Schoolcraft, or Delta County. ;)

[tdejong302]

I have 30 acres in Alger county/u.p. by Chatham that I maybe interested in selling. :Welcome: It abutts state and dnr lands.(300acres). It has almost 1000ft. of the black creek running thru it (which supposedly has brookies in it) I don't fish em. Our camp is rustic with outhouse and no running water. Its wired for generator and has propane lights, stove and floor heater. Its small but stays warm, roughly 300 sq. ft. Has a small 8 by12 deck on the front. Hunting blinds are already on the property they are 6ft high, 5 ft. long and 4 ft. wide. 3 blinds. Site next to camp has been cleared for additional bldgs. On plowed county rd about 3 miles outside of Chatham, utilities at the roadside about 50 ft. away. Asking roughly $2000 an acre. 1000ft. of year round stream frontage. Great geese, deer, grouse and bear hunting. Snowmobile trails near Chatham. Stream frontage alone is worth asking price. Property is about 1/3 marsh with tags great deer bedding areas, 1/3 cedar and 1/3 hardwoods.

[Bwana]

I apologogize in advance as some of my questions are very basic. I have been reading "Grow 'Em Right" (Neil and Craig Dougherty) and "Wildlife & Woodlot management" (Monte burch) so I have some book knowledge but I have no practical experience with purchaseing Raw Land that is "excellent' for whitetails.


2. If I had to list the #1 most-overlooked attribute that hunters usually completely ignore as a factor in land selection, it would be soil quality. Poor soil can be improved, but that crappy ground will always be a limiting factor for you. Fertile soil generally produces healthier critters, whatever they may be. Also, if you ever have the ambition to develop food plots, they will be more productive on better ground.
-What is the most efficient way to determine soil quality?
-luv2hunteup mentioned a Soil Inventory. Do you recommend this as well and what will this Inventory tell a prospective land owner?
-If you go for fertile soil won't that rule out most forested lands or any land with high concentrations of Oaks due to the tannic Acid Content? Or are you going in another direction with "crappy soil" comment (like Sandy/rocky in lieu of actual dirt)?



3. A year-round water source is important. If you don't have it, at least be sure that your soil and aquifers are such that you can create water holes.
-Would you recommend a searching for standing pool or a stream..or does it not matter just as long as theres water?
-How do you find out the status of the aquifers? Is this to determine how close the water is to the surface or is it for another reason? Is this basically a perk test?

Thank you.

Anyone, feel free to answer these questions. All opinions welcome.

[QuakrTrakr]

LIke Bwana said, I can't possibly get soil samples for every piece of land I'm considering buying! :yikes: Water is important and the type of vegetation on the property can give you a good idea what kind of soil it has.
7 Mag- I don't think I could make that trip every weekend to Montana. :lol: I'd use up my lease miles on the truck mighty quick!

[Swamper]

if the trees are big, then it should grow big antlers.

Swamper

[Jacob Huffman]

I used to hunt on private land near LeRoy.It was 80%cedar swamp and 20%hardwoods.It was awsume,awsume awsume... I did very well over the 14 years I had the privalege to hunt it.We started out with about 6 guys hunting it and as the years went on it got fewer and fewer.Then My uncle sold it along with the 3 others that had a share in it.I would recomend this area to anyone.The land around there is varied with alot of open fields,mostly hay and some corn.There is eveything as far as woods from thick swamp to open hardwoods,pine thickets,grassy fields you name it.

[farmlegend]

Practically every county will furnish soil survey books which map every bit of land in the county. They are published by the USDA, and are great references. They describe all soil qualities (types, texture, permeability, etc.) in detail. I would start there.

Soil samples are generally unnecessary for evaluating land for purchase.

I am not an expert on the decomposition of oak leaves and its effect on soil acidity. I can tell you that the original land surveys done in the mid-1800's on my section of land stated that my ground was covered with mostly oak forest (in my area, Bur Oak and Swamp White Oak). In my old crop fields that I have had soil tests performed, pH has ranged between 6.5 and 7.1.

Another thing that I have a strong opinion on: the #1 most over-rated attribute that hunters apply to prospective land is the amount of forest. If I were managing for a mix of deer, upland game birds, ducks, non-game species, what have you, I wouldn't want any more than half my land to be forested. Given the right other conditions (soil, water), I could be quite happy with a lot less than 50% woods. There are guys such as our own Bish that have created wildlife shangri-las that began with almost no woods at all.

Regarding water, Bwana - creeks or ponds, I don't think it matters. If you want to create water holes, wetlands, etc., your local NRCS guy should be able to provide good advice.

[tedshunter]

All I can say is if you buy in the U.P. look at land south of M-28 I have hunted near Seney for many years and also near Blaney Park and there were alot more deer south of M-28.You might want to check with a fellow by the name of John Zeller he buys land and takes lumber off then sometimes he puts them up for sale,so it will already be select cut for you.If you look on a plot map of Schoolcraft Co.him or someone in his family owns almost half the county.I almost bought 40 acres with high and low ground with Mesick creek running thru the property and a small log cabin which was brand new and electricity,running water and he only wanted 40,000 for it.Unfortunaltly I couldnt get the financing at the time,had to many other things going at the time.I also heard that near Rudyard the deer yard up near there in the winter,supposed to be a great late season spot.I read in an article once that this one guy would see up to 100 deer a day hunting in the deer yarding area.Good luck finding your little paradise.:)

[Lee Gerdermain]

Ever thought of the Thumb area? I've hunted there for 30 years, pheasant, deer, waterfowl, varmint. Not to bad either although the land can be somewhat flat. Best part is just a 2 hour drive from DTW or Lansing.

In fact..your lucky day.. I'm selling my 90-acre parcel in Sanilac County. You ask anybody, it is the #1 primo-spot around, bar none. All the attributes Farmlegend states that are desirable are there, then some! Have owned it with 2 high school pals for 20 years and we all now going down different paths in life, So, it's time to sell. PM me and I'll fill you in, but it aint cheap; today $375,000 (and worth every cent).

[farmlegend]

Lee, welcome to the MSF. Great to have an experienced landowner here.

About that 90a. of yours - isn't that the piece surrounded on 3 sides by the Minden City State Game Area? :yikes:

[WinMag]

... I enjoy the Wilderness experience. ...my personal preferance leads me to the forests...I'm with Bwana in the forest! There's nothing like the wilderness experience to lift my spirits and help me put my stress-filled life back in perspective. I recently bought some land, but I had to consider not only my outdoor needs, but my wife and kids also. I wanted wild land so I could build a basic cottage. My wife wanted waterfront with a no-wake swimming/fishing lake for the kids and a modern, comfortable house. I compromised and bought a 3-BR ranch with attached garage in a lakefront development with 300 acres of "hunting" land included. It's in the northern lower. This was the best decision I could have made. Now the kids learn to swim, we have a paddle boat, canoe, and fishing at our back door. I still have all the hunting opportunities with more land than I could have afforded on my own. Everyone's happy. I'm still just a couple of miles from Manistee National Forest and the PM river with all that offers. The other thing is my wife is not afraid to stay in the house alone while I hunt. She would definitely be afraid of deep wilderness and I wouldn't want to put her in that situation.

The best thing is it's close enough (200 miles) that I could go there every weekend if I want to. I like the UP, but I can't get up there more than once or twice per year. That's not enough time to do any effective scouting or habitat work. Just something to think about. Thank God for women! Once again, she forced me to think outside of myself and I ended up better off because of it.

[Lee Gerdermain]

Lee, welcome to the MSF. Great to have and experienced landowner here.

About that 90a. of yours - isn't that the piece surrounded on 3 sides by the Minden City State Game Area? :yikes:
My north border (400 acres) is the Buddist Monestary (they're very quiet). The east border is up against the nude beach (Lake Huron). The south is the Thumb area Gay Liberation weekend campgrounds (sometimes can get a little noisy). And, on the west is the Sanilac county kite-flying field (very quiet except the crows get annoyed).

Hope that clears things up.

Lee

[wagoneer]

QuakrTrakr,

Not sure if you have a preference toward any particular location, but I owned property in Midland county between Midland and Mt. Pleasant and a little north. It was cheap and had good deer numbers. I think it is too far south for most people to think of it as 'up-north' but it was too far north to be worth much. You don't get the wilderness feel there, but there is farmland to draw deer in. I just wanted to throw it out there as many people overlook the area. There is even some state land there. You could do some bunny hunting and check out the surrounding land.

[Rico]

Does 480 acres in the U.P. > E. of Rudyard interest you?
Asking 330,000.

[Lee Gerdermain]

From a similar thread:

Here's my pecking order on hunting and hunting land from lowest to highest.

1. State Land...I'd rather fall off a cliff, break my spine then, have gasoline poured over me and set afire than step one foot on State land.

2. Have a private owner's "permission" to hunt...If he/she gave it to you, it was given to 100 other hunters too. Just one step better than public land. Plus, like a lease, it'll goes away on a whim.

3. Being someone's guest.. Like fish, it starts to stink after a couple of days. Besides, the owner can (and will) always fall in love with someone else.

4. Casual Lease...a non-structured deal where you give someone some money for the right (exclusive or shared) to hunt. Not a bad deal if you're the gambling type. But remember, a seven will ALLWAYS roll,sooner or later.

5. Formal Lease...Now your getting smarter. Cost more, but you'll know exactly the time and day when the seven will be rolled. Plus, if you're smart, you'll write a clause in the lease that stipulates that if the owner sells, your hunting lease continues through maturity.

6. Purchasing land in joint ownership with non-relatives.... There's ONE, and ONLY ONE way for this type of deal to work: Gather as few partners as you can to make the deal work and religiously collect all monies due for the forthcoming year, in advance, in a single payment on July 4. Nobody forgets July 4.

7. Purchasing land in joint ownership amongst relatives... Again, get as few members as you can. The advantage here is, if someone fails to pay when due, you can call him/her anything you want without getting sued. Plus, once expelled, you'll finally get your own bedroom at camp if he/she doesn't pay.

8. Buying a membership into a small,formally incorporated huntclub... All legalities and rules are clearly established,including buy/sell,dues, member's death etc. No surpises here, but you'll always be sleeping with strangers. Not my cup of tea.

9. Buying a membership into a large, formally incorporated hunt club... This is exactly the same as #1, except you'll spend $2500 per year (or more) to find some guy hunting in the area you scouted all summer and you can't do a thing about it except steam internally. Plus, you'll be sleeping with strangers, extremely moody, bitchy, suspicious strangers at that. I'd rather do macrome.

10. Buying your own land all by yourself.... Read #1-9. Now, listen closely... "These don't apply!". Get it?

Which category do you fall??

[just ducky]

From a similar thread:

Here's my pecking order on hunting and hunting land from lowest to highest.

1. State Land...I'd rather fall off a cliff, break my spine then, have gasoline poured over me and set afire than step one foot on State land.

2. Have a private owner's "permission" to hunt...If he/she gave it to you, it was given to 100 other hunters too. Just one step better than public land. Plus, like a lease, it'll goes away on a whim.

3. Being someone's guest.. Like fish, it starts to stink after a couple of days. Besides, the owner can (and will) always fall in love with someone else.

4. Casual Lease...a non-structured deal where you give someone some money for the right (exclusive or shared) to hunt. Not a bad deal if you're the gambling type. But remember, a seven will ALLWAYS roll,sooner or later.

5. Formal Lease...Now your getting smarter. Cost more, but you'll know exactly the time and day when the seven will be rolled. Plus, if you're smart, you'll write a clause in the lease that stipulates that if the owner sells, your hunting lease continues through maturity.

6. Purchasing land in joint ownership with non-relatives.... There's ONE, and ONLY ONE way for this type of deal to work: Gather as few partners as you can to make the deal work and religiously collect all monies due for the forthcoming year, in advance, in a single payment on July 4. Nobody forgets July 4.

7. Purchasing land in joint ownership amongst relatives... Again, get as few members as you can. The advantage here is, if someone fails to pay when due, you can call him/her anything you want without getting sued. Plus, once expelled, you'll finally get your own bedroom at camp if he/she doesn't pay.

8. Buying a membership into a small,formally incorporated huntclub... All legalities and rules are clearly established,including buy/sell,dues, member's death etc. No surpises here, but you'll always be sleeping with strangers. Not my cup of tea.

9. Buying a membership into a large, formally incorporated hunt club... This is exactly the same as #1, except you'll spend $2500 per year (or more) to find some guy hunting in the area you scouted all summer and you can't do a thing about it except steam internally. Plus, you'll be sleeping with strangers, extremely moody, bitchy, suspicious strangers at that. I'd rather do macrome.

10. Buying your own land all by yourself.... Read #1-9. Now, listen closely... "These don't apply!". Get it?

Which category do you fall??

Lee...I sense you have some issues :cool: I feel like "Dr. Phil" :lol:

[Whit1]

BobBBT, Farmlegend and Lee (great post Lee on the options....:lol: ) gave some very sound advice.

Someone mentioned looking south of M28 in the U.P. and that's a must. It will get you out of the heaviest snow belt.........you'll still get snow, but not as much as closer to Lake Superior.

From what I gather from a few guys I know, in the U.P. the area south of the Soo is decent, Delta and Dickinson counties are as well. If you are looking at Menominee County, the high deer numbers are all in the south.....and they ARE high, but very tough to hunt as there's a lot of thick swampland interspersed with farm fields.

Mecosta County still has decent hunting and it can give you that "up north" feel to it.

Another factor to keep in mind concerns poaching. Some areas..........too many....have an ingrained (maybe inbred) propensity to poach deer. I used to hunt with a group of guys in NW Osceola County on 140 acres w/very nice lodging, swamp, hardwoods, hayfield, etc. (the family sold the property). The deer hunting was decent, but that's all. The area was infested with two local families that took poaching to an art form, as well as many other illegal activities. To call them a part of the criminal element is considerably understated.

The DNR broke up a long running commercial deer poaching ring in the area after an extensive investigation, but that only slowed things for a time.

You can get some idea of the poaching situation form local DNR and other law enforcement agencies.

[Lunker]

Southern Ohio all the way....

[Luv2hunteup]

Hey Rico

Where ya been at? How did deer season treat you guys?

[Luv2hunteup]

You don't have to go out and take soil sample from each piece of land that you are thinking about to determine soil quality. This has already been done for you by the government.

The following is for Chippewa county:

A soils map is an aerial photo (~3x4 miles) that is marked with lines similar to a topo map. The lines follow different types of soil each identified with a number/letter which is linked to the index matrix.

The soil index matrix identifies the above number and names the soil type. There are 10 columns which identify "Potential for Habitat Elements". These potentials are rated very poor, poor, fair and good. The potential columns are as follows:

Grain and seed crops
Grasses and legumes
Wild herbaceous plants
Hardwood trees
Coniferous plants
Wetland plants
Shallow water areas
Openland wildlife
Woodland wildlife
Wetland wildlife

The letter that is with the map number is the percent slope of the soil type. Examples would be A 0-3% slope to F which is 25%-50% slope.

You can sit at home at your kitchen table to see if a piece of land meets your needs and expectations. Use this with Terraserver to scout adjoining properties and how the two relate to one another.

I know this post is long but it hopefully it helps explain what info can be found on a soils map/index. Do a search in the habitat forum on this subject for other postings if you feel the need.

Buy the best soil you can afford.

[Pinefarm]

I happen to think the Lee G's post is not only funny, it's very truthful. Most hunting "partnerships" that involve money being spent (either on the lease, mortgage, taxes, land improvements, cabin/trailer utilities, bait, stands, etc) go south after time. Usually one or two guys use the land a lot more than everyone else and the others that pay equal shares begin to resent that and feel they're getting screwed. About the only way partners will work in a hunt club is to make sure you have, at most, one or two very old, very good friends that you know very well and understand each other like brothers. Basically, old enough friends where you can argue with each other and not have it hurt the friendship. Because you're going to either argue or hold something in silent bitterness. Being able to talk about serious deer camp issue's out in the open and as adults is the only way it will work. Say someone is at the camp all of December and nobody else was there. Who pays the Dec. heat and electric bill? What's the rule about passing small bucks? How about shooting does? Who gets the "best" blind up on the oak ridge overlooking the cedar swamp on Nov 15? Who bought and baited the stands and who is only coming up for maybe a weekend or two and wants to hunt the "best" baited stand, yet that person has bought no bait?
These are issue's you're going to have to hash out in a hunting partnership.

[Lee Gerdermain]

Great minds must think alike.

One can't mention the purchase of hunting property without including the thought of how one will stucture the ownership heirarchy. Since few of us have the means to take on such a large acquistion (and perhaps, debt-service) we often look to a friend, neighbors and realtives to joing in on all the fun. Its pragnmatic socialism at its idealistic best: all for one and one for all!

BELIEVE ME..they all start out just wonderful. Over time, well, that's a different story. In fact, they remind me of Mario Puzo's The Godfather novels: as you recall, each book opens with a grand party (a marriage, a first communion, an ordination. Each ends with death. Think about it.

I'll take #10, thank you.