You do the math...

[Uzarious]

Hey, somebody out there has to got a slide-rule, so help me out OK?

If you sighted your bow in at 22 yards, and the arrow hit 2" above the bull every time, how high would the arrow be above the bull if you used the same pin and shot at the target from just five yards.

I'm trying to convince an aquaintence that the reason the he missed his deer was that he shot over its back, using his 20 yard-pin, even though the deer was a short 5 yards away.

Am I right?

[outfishin_]

I'm no math wizard....From what I figure It would roughly 9" high at 5 yds......

I'm not sure you would normally miss completely at 9" too high.....There is probably other factors involved.....like buck fever...;)

[h_buck]

And the lightning quick reflexes of the deer...

[wecker20]

I don't know the math but at 5 yds it should have been about where it hits at 20. You could use your 50 yd pin at 5 yds and you'll still hit the target.

[Joe Archer]

You would probably need arrow speed, but could probably figure it out if you knew how high above a ten yard target he hit with his 20 yard pin. This is the half way point and the arrow would be at its maximun height. Your friend is somewhat correct, you do need to hold high on close shots. Your arrow hits low because it is at the botton of the trajectory curve, and still rising. Another more likely reason for missing a close shot would be how high he was in the tree stand. The closer you are shooting to straight down, the lower you need to hold on your target because trajectory calculations go out the window the furthur you deviate from horizontal. <----<<<

[Hunter333]

I looked at it like I do when fine tuning my reloads for my rifle: with an arrow.....22yds 2" high, 11yds 1" high, 5.5yds center. Is an arrow different at that distance? is the arrow still going up at 22 yds or is it arching down?

[TrailFndr]

too much depends ont he weight of the arrow, and hte speed of the bow. Makeing the determination would require both of those numbers. It would also require the knowledge of what distance the sight is DEAD on...

[Burksee]

The math will only help if you know a few of the variables of the equation.......

Why would say the bow is sighted in at 22 yards but yet state that its hitting 2 inches high at that point? Doesn't sound like its sighted in for 22 yards to me. There's no telling what it would do at 5 to 10 yards but its a safe bet its a lot higher than two inches!

I have only two pins on my bow. Its an older York, graphite limbs, w/65% let off, set at about 65/67 lbs. Not sure about the arrow size at the moment, and I'm using 125 Thunderheads. My first pin I have sited in for 10 yards, at 15 yards its still hitting the bullseye. I can shoot the same pin out to 20 yards with little if any drop, most are still in the lower area of the bullseye. The second pin is set for 25 yards, I can shoot that same pin to almost 30 yards with only an inch or two of drop.

Were you shooting out of a tree stand? A lot of people that shoot from an elevated stand have a tendancy to shoot high or over a deer even when their bows been sited in correctly.

My suggestion, get that bow shooting the middle of the bull (horizontal plane) area at 10 to 15 yards. Then get some practice from shooting from an elevated stand. Bend at the hips/waist, not the shoulders. Doing that will help keep your shots from "going over" your intended target.

Pratice makes perfect! ;)

[Banditto]

As stated above, you can't answer that question accurately without all the missing info. But we all agree at 5 yards it would shoot high, like way high.

But what I was going to say is just like 30-40 yards are ideal to some guys, 5-12 yards is my perfect shooting range. One thing hunting close is even with a fast bow you need to shoot low, like aim at bottom of the rib cage.

Now add in the fact that the deer probably jumped the string. I got into the habit that may sound unusual to you guys. I purposely set my pin low 3" low. So when you guys are all practicing dialed in at 20 yards, my arrows impact 3". This is to compensate for jumping the string as it has happened to me several times. Now if a deer comes in further out I either wait for it to come in more or compenste, simple as that.

Last thing, I hear so many guys complaining about close shots yet hardly anybody practices the 5 yard or less shot from a tree stand.

Opening morning I had no less than 4 deer in the 1-2 yard range for 20 minutes so you need to add that into your practicing routine.

[wecker20]

From 5 to 20 yds, the arrow should hit about the same point w/ a 20 yd pin right? Why would it be way high? I can shoot at 10 yds w/ a 20 yd pin and still hit the bullseye. If your standing 5 yds from a target you could use almost any pin you have and hit somewhere in the center. Someone grab their bow and try it :)

[Banditto]

you are speaking theoretically, or did you actually try it?

Standing in front of a target is not like sitting 20 feet up and shooting too.

[Ron84]

First off, the path an arrow takes on it's way to a target is dependant on many variables - you can't possibly justify a path as being "the path" an arrow sighted in 2" at 22 yds will take. The mass of the arrow effects how much gravity pulls on it. Some bows shoot fast and flat, others are a bit slow and arc. There is a whole range of the arrow arcing that goes along with all of the possible variable speeds that bows can shoot at. Some bows are sighted in so that they arc up coming off of the rest, while others come straight off of the rest and head downward shortly thereafter.

I'm trying to convince an aquaintence that the reason the he missed his deer was that he shot over its back, using his 20 yard-pin, even though the deer was a short 5 yards away.

However, there is a simple answer to your trying to prove a point to your buddy. :bash: Have him shoot, using his 2" high at 22 yards pin, holding dead on a bullseye at 5 yds and see where the arrow hits.

:cool:

[Sawcat]

shoot the bow at 5 yards using the same pin and see where it hits and that will be the end of that. My bow shoots very flat and I see very little difference, but I can shoot one pin from 10-30 yards with no more than a two inch difference in height.

[Banditto]

Granted I agree he should try to replicate the shot, but at this point I believe his findings would be weighted because it seems to me like there is a contest going between Uzarious and his friend..


Interesting stuff on arrows in flight:

Physics of an arrow in flight (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/)

[Uzarious]

[QUOTE=Banditto]Granted I agree he should try to replicate the shot, but at this point I believe his findings would be weighted because it seems to me like there is a contest going between Uzarious and his friend..

Not a contest of any sort; simply seeking to establish why/how this person missed a deer @ 5 yards.

However, (I do apologize for this), when he shot at the deer, the hunter was elevated 10 feet above the ground (feet at the platform) and, is he is 6' tall.

When he sighted in his bow, he was also on a platform which was 8' above the ground.

Sorry to complicate things.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

No matter if he was 20 feet off the ground and using a pin sighted in at 20 yards he should still have hit the deer at 5 yards unless the deer jumped the arrow. Or unless he wasn't aiming center mass of the vitals.

10 feet off the ground isn't high enough to throw him off that much.

There are alot of things that can happen when your heart is in your chest.

We all have blown shots that we shouldn't have. If not you haven't taken enough.


I would have him duplicate a shot while in a stand from 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30.

That will help him get his confidence back.

[thornapple]

Thats why I have a zero yard pin on my bow. Anything within 5-10 yards of my tree has never lived to tell about it. Add up all the points that have been mentioned in the above posts and throw in a live animal and anything can happen.

[PITBULL]

It depends on how bad he was shaking, any where from 1" to 3' :banghead3

actualy he should be almost right on at 5 yards .

[rodboy]

We have plenty of tournament in which we put a deer target at five yards. Over half of the people will shoot with there 20 yard pin and will hit the animal low.It's going to be your 30 or 40 yard pin that will do the job. Mind you it all depends on the arrow speed and if your huting from a stand or on the ground..

My 2 cents..

[GVDocHoliday]

If anything he shot under the deer. At 5 yards he would have wanted to use his 35, 40, or 45 yard pin, depending on the speed.

with a 22 yard arch, the arrow will be highest during that travel at 11 yards, and lowest at 0, and 22 yards. So to compensate for such the short distance, you have to aim higher.

I myself use my 40 yard pin for anything between 3 and 6 yards...and yes some shoots will setup a fricken turkey right at your feet...and as long as you practice then they are the easiest shot to make.

[Uzarious]

...I just gotta know. Some posts say that the arrow went over the deer. Now, a writer suggests that the arrow went under the deer. YIKES!

The strange thing to me that, at 15 feet up from the ground (bow height) and shooting at a target (deer) broadside at approximately 20 feet, my son (certainly not me) just calculated that the arrow was shot at about a 45 degree angle, which is fairly steep.

My guess now is that he shot under the deer, as the one writer suggests.
Because, if he shot over the deer, the arrow would have been easily found sticking out of the ground. If it was short, it would have gone into a totally gnarly briar thicket that is/was between the shooter and the deer. We didn't look there very much because we all thought that he shot over it. This is all starting to make more sense.

Agree?

And, to (hopefully) put closure on these matters once and for all, (call me crazy) I've borrowed a metal detector just in case the arrow burried itself deep in the ground shooting from that sharp angel and speed.

[rodboy]

Are you shure he did not hit the animal. Sometimes from an upward angle the arrow will not penetrate to the other side. this kind of hit will not make a good blood trail.

So it might lead you to belive that the shot was missed. Find the arrow and the truth will set you free... :bash:

[Ron84]

The strange thing to me that, at 15 feet up from the ground (bow height) and shooting at a target (deer) broadside at approximately 20 feet, my son (certainly not me) just calculated that the arrow was shot at about a 45 degree angle, which is fairly steep.

FWIW, your son is wrong.

If the arrow was shot at a 45 degree angle from 15 ft off of the ground, then the arrow will impact the ground 15 ft from the base of the tree. This is actually slightly less even because of gravity pulling the arrow down, but that error is so small it didn't need to be taken into consideration.

All in all regarding the theories set forth here on what happened - you really need to find that arrow before any decision can be reached. I sure hope you find it and he never hit that deer. :(

[PITBULL]

Ok now im confused :dizzy:
math was never my strongpoint.
Set up a target, shoot at it, then see what happened.

[Ron84]

Ok now im confused :dizzy:
math was never my strongpoint.

The sum of the angles in a triangle is 180 degrees.
There is a 90 degree angle where the tree meets the ground, assuming the ground is flat.
Since the angle of the shot was 45 degrees in theory, the oppisite angle will also be 45 degrees.
Thus, the legs of the triangle (distance from hunters bow to base of tree and from the base of the tree to the deer) will be the same distance. ;)

[rodboy]

find the arrow please!!! :confused:

[Uzarious]

I plan to go up to my property later this week to get in a hunt or two. I will perform a thurough search of the area that the shot was taken, particularly the area that would have been in front of where the deer was standing. I will also take a metal detector in case the arrow was fully burried under the ground when shot from shuch a steep angle. In case anybdy is interested, I will post my findings here immediately upon my return.

Film at 11!

[Uzarious]

On Thursday afternoon, I went out my property to hunt in the same stand that my friend shot, and purportedly missed a buck on opening day evening. I had originally contended that he had shot over the animal because of the steep angle and short distance to the target. Some agreed that the shot probably went over the deer. One said under. All seemed to make sense. A thorough-day long search for the deer found absolutely no sign, no arrow and no deer. Things didn't make sense!

So, the arrow has simply got to right there in the vicinity of the shot, right? Well, upon closer inspection and measuring, the deer was actually standing braoadside at 15 yards from the hunter, not 5 as I wrote earlier. I looked everywhere within a 20 yards circle of where the deer was standing and did not find the arrow. Oh yeah, I brought out a metal detector with me and found zipp, nada, filch!

I now believe that my pal indeed hit the deer as he contends (it was very low light conditions) and he gut shot it high (which explains why no arrow, no deer within 1/2 mile circle). If he had missed high or low, the arrow would be right there in the ground.

I feel bad then and still do, but we gave it our best effort to know for sure the fate of the buck. Regrettably, not the ending anybody wanted.

The moral of the story; if you cant see your pins, and cant see the impact of the arrow, then it's too dark to shoot!



Case closed.

[Grimlock]

Hey I don't mean to sound rude but at that range with most any bow set up I think your partner may of just had a case of the jiters and took a bad shot .

[Jx38]

a deer five yards away ,shot sighting w/20yd pin is a dead deer (w/proper form, target spot, etc.)

actually 5yds and under (roughly) your arrow should be a little low. take some time and just try it to prove to you and your buddy who is right. good luck

[Joe Archer]

I think the moral of the story here is that until you recover your arrow, you can't be sure that you missed. Opening day or the 2nd, you should have looked hard for the arrow and for signs of a hit. Also, anytime you take a shot watch the deer as far as you can see, and listen as long as you can. Use your compass to mark the last places that you could hear and see the deer. <----<<<

[fishforbrains]

www.bowjackson.com
Check it out lots of calculators to play with