Firearm Retarded...gun question

[Trushot_Archer]

So....I mostly hunt with a bow or a shotgun. Never had a rifle. Never even shot one. But I like the idea of having one around and would like to become relatively proficient at a slightly greater distance than to 35yard max eith the bow so....

I have an oppurtunnity to pick up a 30 30 and wonder about...
A. Range
B. Knockdown
C. Accuracy
D. Price of cartridges
E. Any other info that'd be usefull to a rifle newbie.

The gun as an older model Marlin if that makes any difference.

Thanks in advance

[CMR]

1) Range would be no further than 150yrds.
2) Knockdown power of a .30-30 depends on the bullet, you have the choice of either the 150gr or 170gr bullet. I've known folks who have used the 170gr for black bear here in Mich. A .30-30 is pretty much a deer cartridge.
3) Accuracy for a .30-30 would be the norm, not a tack driver if thats what you're looking for. If its MOD, then its fine.
4) Price for rounds depends on which brand but usually nothing over $20/a box. Check out Wally World or Meijers for some ideas.
5) Was gonna say a good old .22 is agreat way to start shooting rifles. Either a bolt action (those Romanian training rifles are perfect for starters) or a Ruger 10/22. Great way to practice and also are great for small game. If you are looking for an all around rifle, I'd take a long hard look at a rifle in .30-06. You can shoot anything from 110gr bullets (varmints) out of it up to 220gr bullets (big game). Plus, you can find .30-06 ammo everywhere, even in the Ma/Pa shops out in BFE.

[Rupestris]

TA,
I have a Winchester chambered in .30-30.

A. Range The .30-30 is good out to about 200 yards but is better suited as a brush gun. I doub't I'd take a shot further than 150 yards given the chance. Zeroed at 100 yards the drop at 200 is 7 to 8 in. After that - say g'nite. its in the dirt.

B. Knockdown More deer have fallen to the .30-30 (legally) than any other rifle round. The round (150 grain)itself has about the same power as the 7.62X39 (125grain - AK-47 round if you're not familiar) when it comes to ballistics. The .35 rem is right there with 'em as well.

C. Accuracy With a scope (cheap simmons and Remington Core-loct 170gr Meijer specials) I can keep 5 shots within 2" at 100 yards. Not the best but I haven't tried any other ammo yet.

D. Price of cartridges The above mentioned rounds can be found for $8.99 to $10.99 for 20 rounds depending on where you shop. Dunhams has the best price I've found.

E. Any other info that'd be usefull to a rifle newbie. he Marlin 336 is an outstanding gun. I have a Winchester 94AE and while its a very nice gun I sometimes wish I could trade for a Marlin equivalent. The trigger on the Win is, for lack of a better term, crunchy. Because of the design, a trigger job is almost impossible to do. The marlin OTOH has a trigger group that can be cleaned up and made to be a shooter.
If I'm wrong in assuming that this is a lever gun you are looking at, please let me know.
If it is a lever gun, Marlin's and Winchesters can be found for as little as $150 in somewhat beat-up condition to $400 for a like new model. All of them are shooters regardless of condition.
HTH,
Rupe

[Hawker]

Kelly, depends on the zone your going to hunt as well the rifle is ok for north but how about down here! a good slug gun or smokepole has better range and knockdown

[Trushot_Archer]

Thanks guys.

I have a slugger already. I hate it. I'd almost rather not take a deer than use that big bastard.

I guess what I'm looking for will have a little more range. I'd like to be able to take a 300 yard shot. Not that I ever would but the appeal of the rifle for me is distance so...

I really appreciate all the info though. What a great resource here.

[Death_From_Above]

Cartridge TypeBullet50100150200250300Remington Express150 SP CL0.2zero-2.4-7.6-16.1-28.8SHORT-RANGE¹ TRAJECTORY*Cartridge TypeBullet50100150200250300Remington Express170 SP CL0.3zero-2.7-8.3-17.1-29.9http://www.remington.com/images/shim.gifLONG-RANGE² TRAJECTORY*Cartridge TypeBullet100150200250300400500Remington Express170 SP CL1.8zero-4.6-12.6-24.5-62.6-125.3

Some number from Remington on the 30-30. I personally would not own a 30-30. Don't like a lot of the features of the gun. But lot's of people do like it as a brush gun.

A Brush Gun...isn't that kind of like trying to shoot a buck chasing a doe at 20 yards...best you can hope for is wounding it!

If $$$ is your driving force...like most of us. Go to jays and take a look at the Savage Models. They offer them in many cartridges including the 300 Win. Now that one will shoot 300 without a problem. With knockdown power. A little bit of a overkill....but lots of power. Just don't hit the front sholder or you'll have hamburger!

[Rupestris]

A Brush Gun...isn't that kind of like trying to shoot a buck chasing a doe at 20 yards...best you can hope for is wounding it!
I guess to some it might be. I sure wouldn't. When I refer to is as a "brush gun" I mean a light, small carbine style rifle that is good for heavily wooded areas where you might be hard presses to even find a lane 80 yards long.

Brush-gun just seems to be a term people have applied to certain firearms. It has no bearing on the ethics of the user. Much like "assault rifle" doesn't mean you are out to do drive-by's and hold up banks in Hollywood, and a "combat knife" doesn't make you a Rambo-wannabe.
HTH,
Rupe

[Ferg]

a .32 spcl - w/scope - and have for 40 years - never had a deer run more than about 5 steps from where he/she was shot - 170gn - great deer rifle - nice and light - short barrel - out to about 125 yards - I keep mine 0/100 seems to be just perfect for 'most' shots I have ever had -

ferg....

[Sib]

The day a 30-30 isn't enough gun to take a deer will be the day after archery season is closed for good. If a 30-30 isn't enough gun...what does that say about our bows? With a well placed 30-30 round you can leave your blind and start to field dress your deer, what do us archer's say about tracking deer after an arrow hit? Give the deer time to die don't push it.:p

Yes, a 30-30 has it's limitations, but used with in it's effective range, it's more than adequate for the woods in Michigan. Rupe and CMR are right with the range info, at least from my experience, though I haven't hunted with my 30-30 for about 15 years.

Best to match the gun with the type hunting you do. If you'll be taking 200+ yard shots, then it isn't going to be the right gun. If you don't see yourself taking many 100+ yard shots, it might be the gun for you.

Can ya shoot it before hand, so you can see if it's gonna meet your expectations? If you find it a little 'light' those Savages in an .06 or .270 would extend that range and are economical. If you ever think about hunting out west, then the Magnums might be something to look at.

[Trushot_Archer]

Yeah Sib...that's kinda what I was thinking. I have a scoped slugger now and can stck in 3" groups at 100 with a solid rest. I wonder of the .30-30 would just be redundant.

I probably wouldn't hunt with a rifle unless I went West or on a guided deal in a foreign where I spent $$$ and only than as a last day "Hail Mary" type thing.

I'd like the option to get out to 300-350 (paper for a lomg while of course)should I get good enough to do it.
.270? 7MM?

I'm not a big guy though and don't want to go the 300 mag route. I'd like a flat shooting, relatively light and easy to shoot gun that won't knock my head off.

[safetreehunt]

I'd like a flat shooting, relatively light and easy to shoot gun that won't knock my head off.

You just named the .270 in this statement.

[D_Hunter]

I done alot of checking before I purchased my first rifle (new). I looked at Remington, Marlin, Winchester, Weatherby, Ruger, ect. I went with the Savage 7mm Rem. Mag. This gun can bring down anthing from deer to elk and more. It does have quite a bit of recoil though, but us big guys can take it. Don't be afraid to purchase the single shots either. ( You can find these for around $125 new) I have a New England single shot .270 and was able to drop a deer at 175 yards in its tracks. Remingtons, Ruger, Weatherby, ect. are nice, but you may be buying a name. The trick is...Know your firearm. Practice practice practice.

[jamieking989]

Remington has synthetic stocked 30 06 and 270 combos for cheap I think about $350 to $400 with a scope. I use a 30 06 and hold fine to 250 yards a 270 is better for long range. 30 06 better for shorter distances.

[wecker20]

I own a Winchester 7mm Rem. mag and have it sighted up to 400 yds and accuratlly. You can probablly get out there a little farther w/ the correct bullet but who needs to go over 400?..it's a long way to walk! :lol: It does give you a thump when you pull the trigger but if I can handle it, most can..I'm a tall and skinny dude. Must know you rifle when shooting this far. At 100 yds its on, 200 it's high, 300 it's on again, and 400 it's 3" low w/ my current set-up.

[Trushot_Archer]

Well I wound up getting it after all. Made me an offer I couldn't refuse so...

I'll run a few rounds and see how she shoots I guess. Now that I want to shoot it I'll probably tag out in Bow season :lol:

[funebonz880]

I have a savage 7mm rem mag. IT doesnt have as much kick as ud think. 12 gauge has more kick if i recall. It won't kncok u around too bad.

[D_Hunter]

Trushot Archer....Congrats on your buying your first rifle. You can not go wrong with a 30-30. This gun has taken more wildlife than any other rifle out there today (my opinion). I have a feeling once you shoot this rifle though...you will be wanting to buy another one !! Good luck & have fun.

[Trushot_Archer]

Thanks D....can't wait to shoot it. I just need to find the time.

Now I have a reason to head Noth of the line this year ;)

[Banditto]

I have a Marlin 30-30 and like it pretty well in 150 grain Winchester.

I am curious if they are going to reintroduce the silvertip ammo they pulled off the market a couple years ago?

Federal Premium supposedly was going to make a new load for the 30-30 this year but I haven't heard yet if it made it in the line-up or not.

Edit: I just looked it up, I believe Federal did add 150 grain Speer Grand Slam to their lineup in 30-30. That might be worth checking out.

[Trushot_Archer]

Well now your talking over my head Banditto :p
I know "grains" and I get the difference btw hollow and soft points but after that theys just bullets to me :D

[dogjaw]

Well now your talking over my head Banditto :p
I know "grains" and I get the difference btw hollow and soft points but after that theys just bullets to me :D
Hey Trushot, try these web sites for ammo info. Don't get too hung up on ft. lbs. energy. Bullet designs have made lighter calibers as deadly as some of the larger. Check out the ballistics tables. When using them, watch for the test barrel length that's listed when comparing. You also can't use the bullet drops listed as actual out of your gun. You have to sight it in and check it yourself.
Check out the Remington sight. Half way down the page are several links explaining ammo.

Federal (http://www.federalcartridge.com/default.asp?br=1)
Winchester (http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/rifle.aspx)
Remington (http://www.remington.com/ammo/ammofr.htm)

[timbergsp]

I got a 270 sav 110 I love it shoots nice and will take a deer off its feet thats my fav round but up at our cabin there not but a 30 yard shot here or a 50 yard shot there so I use the good ole marlin which is a 30-30 LOL i think its the best all around rifle it can take a bear deer or get a nice little cast round its great for head shots on a hare or 2

there my 2cents

[Trushot_Archer]

Well I finally got a chance to take to the range today and I'm pretty happy with it. 25 50 and 100 yards all hit in the same spot (aside from operator error of course).

Not being to familiar with guns I was a little scared pulling the trigger for the first time...I was expecting the kick from my 12 ga slugger. What a pleasant suprise! Nothing like I was expecting and very easy to shoot.

No I just have to get past the line and find some fur to slay :D

[Banditto]

cool. What ammo did you end up going with?

[Trushot_Archer]

The only one they had at the local shop!
Winny CX2?? 150 grain. I'd really like to go lighter though. Maybe even 80 or 100. Do they make them that light?
Like I said I'm retarded and gun hunting I DON"T want a pass through I want them knocked off they're feet and I would think lighter lead would be better suited there. Am I wrong here?

[bucknduck]

Trushot,
Congrats on your new rifle. I have both a marlin and winchester 30-30. They were my brother and my first deer rifles. My brother didn't want his anymore, so i now have both rifles. Both are older models with the top ejectors. Makes it tough to mount a scope, but I've always used the iron sights and that works fine for me. My wife uses my 30-06 when we go deer or bear hunting and i use my 30-30, she likes looking through the scope. Its a fun rifle to shoot and I'm looking forward to taking down a few more Michigan big game animals with it before I pass them down to my kids.

Rich

[Banditto]

For the 30-30 you have the right idea about the lighter load being better. They do make 125 grain, but 150 is flat and mushrooms rather quickly in my experience. I have a commerative 1971 Marlin model 336.

I used 170 grain and killed deer, but more than once found the bullet had no expansion on 50 yard shots--which is bad news. Those deer had no shock at all, didn't fall off their feet, had very little interal damage, and ran a lot. Switched to 150 silvertip which isn't made anymore and at close range blew the chest out into a pulpy mess. 150 grain is a good load and shoots really flat (for a 30-30).

I can shoot mine almost as fast an automatic and be on target just as quick as an automatic after the first shot. Theyr'e good guns for certain places.

[Luv2hunteup]

Congrats on your new purchase. A 30-30 will quickly dispatch any animal in Michigan with a well placed shot.

You mentioned a Marlin, I'm assuming it's a lever action that has a tubular magazine. Buy only flat or round nose bullets!!!!!!!!! A pointed bullet in a tubular magazine is an accident waiting to happen.

Typical bullet weights are 150gr or 170gr.

As far as a 30-30 being accurate, it depends on the rifle. There is no way to tell unless you shoot it. With handloads my 30-30 TC Contender, with a 14" barrel, will shoot 1" groups or better with a 2.5x scope.

[dogjaw]

The only one they had at the local shop!
Winny CX2?? 150 grain. I'd really like to go lighter though. Maybe even 80 or 100. Do they make them that light?
Like I said I'm retarded and gun hunting I DON"T want a pass through I want them knocked off they're feet and I would think lighter lead would be better suited there. Am I wrong here?
Stick with the 150 or 170 grain bullets. With a flat nose bullet, anything lighter is going to fall on it's face down range. The 30-30 is a very good deer rifle, but like with any caliber, within it's limits. The heavier bullets have more down range knock down power and proper expansion on deer size game. This is pretty much the same as arrow weight. Too much attention is placed on flat shooting bullets, and too little on actual marksmanship, shot placement, and trajectory.

The Winchester 150 and 170 grain Silvertip are still made. All Winchester 30-30 loads are listed HERE (http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrlist.aspx?cart=MzAtMzAgV2luY2hlc3Rlcg==)

Learn your bullet drop just like arrow drop. Sight the 30-30 in for 100 yards, then shoot it at 25, 50, 75, 125, and 150 yards. Learn your bullet drop in YOUR gun. Your gun will shoot ammo differently than someone else's of the same model. What may shoot well out of someone else's may shoot lousy in yours. Always test a brand and weight for accuracy and reliability. Do not swap ammo weights or brands without sighting it in. I've had 170 grain Win ammo hit 5" high & 5" to the left, and Rem ammo hit 2" low & 2" to the right without adjusting the scope. This is one of the biggest sins hunters make.

Do not shoot off of a bench at the range and think this is where the bullet will land while hunting. Shooting off a bench, you are hunkered down and unnaturally leaning into the rifle. Shooting off hand or kneeling, your body is naturally in a more upright position, and the rifle will have more muzzle flip. Muzzle flip starts before the bullet leaves the barrel, thus you will normally shoot a little higher off hand than at a bench. This is why you want to hold a gun the same way on every shot. So get off your butt :) and shoot standing, kneeling, leaning against a tree etc.

As far as pass through goes, you want that penetration and exit wound. With rare exception will you ever shoot a deer and have it drop in it's tracks. It happens now and then, but you can't count on it. A bullet that fully expands and stops in a normal broadside shot will not be enough to bust through bone such as a shoulder. Thus, stay away from hollow points. My father shot a deer with his .444 Marlin, which has ~ 1-1/2 tons of muzzle energy, and blew away 3/4 of it's heart. The exit wound was rather large. The deer ran like it wasn't even hit, and went for 100 yards before running out of blood. Tracking wasn't hard due to an 8' wide blood trail out the opposite side of the buck.

I've shot several deer in the lungs and had to "scoop" them out when field dressing (shreaded to pieces). They all ran for 40 - 50 yards.

[Trushot_Archer]

Thanks fo all the info and advice guys...
Dogjaw...I hear you about the bench shooting. I set it up and press the gun down to hold it tight when sighting it in and on the way home I thought "Probably shouldn't do that if I want to hunt it" as that'll never be an option in the field.

I guess I'll stick with the rounds I have for a few boxes. More for my shooting's sake than anything else. I shot 25-50 and 100 and all seemed as close to the same as my shooting skills would allow.

5-6" groups at 100 yards....hell I can get 9" at 100 with my bow! I need to practice with it. A lot.

[Leader]

I've been hunting with my Marlin 30-30 for almost 40 yrs now. Thought about getting a 30-06 but couldn't see the need. I *Usually* get my deer anymore & sometimes take two. At camp my gun is called "The Meat Gun" .
I use NOTHING but silver tip ammo for hunting any more. Reason... takes me several years to go through a box. Loading & unloading soft point ammo deforms the ends & in MY mind affects the accuracy.
Use up your soft points for target practice. then try some silver tips.
If you wanted a good deer rifle for Michigan, you got one.
& yes its lighter & easier to carry & shoot then a 12Ga.
Enjoy

[wecker20]

My old 30-30 shoots like a cannon. The only 12 gage I've shot to compare to is a pump w/ 3" mags and the 30-30 kicks twice as hard. My other 12 gage is a goose gun w/ the barrel that recoils. Can only shoot 2 3/4 slugs but you can do it from the hip. My 30-30 is very old, don't know how old. Has a steel butt and was told never to mount a scope on it. Drilling the holes would decrease the value. Had some buddies shoot the old 30-30 and they agreed, it hurt.

[upnut]

Hope you make lots of great memories with that new gun! A word of advice from someone who's been there: make sure you are completely familiar and comfortable with the hammer, it's safe position, how to properly de-cock it from the ready to fire position, and the cross-bolt safety if so equipped.Remember, in November your hands may be stiff and cold, etc. so be extra careful then. Never had a problem myself, but have heard of uncomfortable episodes. Recently purchased a Marlin 1894M with a cross-bolt saftey which I often forget. That funny thwack instead of bang could make your heart sink! Be safe and have fun...Scott

[rzdrmh]

[QUOTE=dogjaw]Stick with the 150 or 170 grain bullets. With a flat nose bullet, anything lighter is going to fall on it's face down range. The 30-30 is a very good deer rifle, but like with any caliber, within it's limits. The heavier bullets have more down range knock down power and proper expansion on deer size game. This is pretty much the same as arrow weight. Too much attention is placed on flat shooting bullets, and too little on actual marksmanship, shot placement, and trajectory.

The Winchester 150 and 170 grain Silvertip are still made. All Winchester 30-30 loads are listed HERE (http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/cfrlist.aspx?cart=MzAtMzAgV2luY2hlc3Rlcg==)
[QUOTE]

dogjaw, others - i too, shoot a model 94 30-30, although most times i don't hunt up north, and therefore, don't shoot it too much.

i checked out those silver tips - those are ok to use in the tube-fed lever action? the tips looked fairly pointed, and i was wondering if the pressure in the tube would distort the shape.

also, is it recommended to use a hollow point? never used one before, but it seems as though it would expand a lot.