Very impressed with RAP and DNR

[Huntin Horseman]

Yesterday I called and made my first ever RAP complaint on someone near one of my private propety hunting spots. This morning less than 24 hours later, a CO called me and told me how he was gonna go about watching the area and make his move in a few days. He was really cool and didn't make me feel like an idiot like some law enforcement has done before. I'll let you guys know the outcome later but I just wanted to give two thumbs up to the RAP system and the DNR. I think there needs to be more positive posts about them here:)

[Adam Waszak]

HH, was that a recording you had to talk to or was it a person and did they send someone out right away or just leave a message and "someone will get back with ya" thing. Because if it was a recording then that is not good enough for me I have done thatnumerous times as I am watching a crime being committed only to have a message come up. That helps me none. I hope you have a better story than I do and I am glad you had a positive experience because it is a very necessary service in this state. Hope they stop the guy from doing whatever it is that he is doing.

AW

[Huntin Horseman]

I talked to a real person and she said she'd pass it along to the officer in my area. I think they must have a dispatch center where all the calls are sent to. I called around 3 in the afternoon but I'm not sure if they have someone on the phones all the time. Maybe Ray will see this and tell us how it works:)

[magnumhntr]

A few years ago, one of the guys I bowhunt with had to sit and listen to the neihbor(sp?) down the road shoot a deer the night before bow season with a gun, for quite a few years in a row. Each year he would call the rap line, and noone would call, nothing would get done. So finally, seems like it was 2 years ago now, he waited for the guy to shoot his anual deer, and then called 911. When the dispatcher replied that she would turn his call over to the RAP line, he replied to the dispatcher that he had his gun in his hand and was going down the road to confront the poacher. Well, lo and behold, within 5 minutes there were 2 county cops, a state bull, and a CO on the scene. The poacher was arrested (finally) and ticketed for a beautiful 8 point that was shot out of season.

Just goes to show that if the RAP line doesn't get the job done, there are other ways to get the proper authorities out there :evil:

[Adam Waszak]

Now that is using your head ;)

AW

[rabbit whacker]

I have had aweful experiences with RAP hotline also. Last time was two years ago, had two kids, I would guess they were 10-12 years old that came walking down the train tracks our property is split by, one of them was carrying a shotgun. They went off into our neighbors land and began shooting at anything that moved, they had no adult with them, no hunter orange on, ect. I was sitting in my treestand with a good view of all of this, when they began shooting in my direction I quickly got down and called the RAP hotline from my cell phone. Left a message, called back the next day and left another message. No call back, they never came out, nothing. Glad to here someone has had success with it.

[Eclipse]

I would not give you 2 cents for our DNR and RAP. I don't know how many time I have called and got no response. I even had a gut pile and drag mark right up to the guys barn - no response. I think the D&R just don't care if people shoot deer out of season. Now in turkey season the D&R are all up in your face everywhere you turn and don't get accused of poaching a Elk. Poaching deer - they just don't want to waste there time. So now I don't even call.

[mallardtone-man]

I was fishing on the Tawas pier last week, and witnessed a guy catch a 20" pike. I first asked him if he had a measuring tape, and he did not, so I went and got mine. I measured it for him, and informed him that it was undersized. By this time, it had a stringer through it's gills and had been on the ground for 10 mins. He replied, well, I am gonna keep it, because it looks like it going to die. The worst part is that he was fishing with his two kids. What a way to teach them......

Anyways, a little later, I noticed that a DNR boat was parked in the marina, and walked over to the boat house. In the boat house was a woman wearing a DNR uniform. She told me that she was not an actual officer, but did work for the DNR. I told her about the problem, and she told me that she doubted that anyone would come out, and that I probably shouldnt worry about it.

Thanks..........................................
What a way to deal with a problem. "Well, if it was me, I wouldnt worry about it".


James

[boehr]

Very interesting. The thread starts out with a positive title and positive post about a fellow hunter that was happy with the results when reporting what was believed to be a violation. In the post the hunter even states that he thinks their needs to be even more positive posts.

Then there are 5 posts following, all negative posts. You turkeys are starting to sound like some of my officers, seriously! Some of them complain about the RAP dispatchers too.

Lets take a minute and examine a few things. First, the RAP dispatchers take calls for the entire state, normally two or three people per shift. Sometimes because they are covering the whole state the phone is ringing more than they can answer. What would you rather have, a system with voice mail, which you can leave your information on or just get continuous busy signals because they were already on the phone with other people?

Not everyone that calls is reporting poaching. Some yahoos are calling because they want to know if the smelt are running or how thick the ice is, etc. Now those type of calls are not suppose to be called in to the RAP Hotline but they are not mind readers up there and don’t know what the call is until they answer it.

Then there are the calls where some yahoo thinks they are doing this great service to the hunting/fishing community by reporting what they know is a poacher but it’s equivalent to some little old lady calling the local police department because somebody just walked by her house at night, the walker didn’t do anything except walk by. Anybody familiar with law enforcement knows exactly the type of complaint I’m talking about.

Next, some of those dispatchers don’t hunt or fish and that should not mean anything. All that means is they rely on your information, you know, the person that does hunt and fish, which is exactly what they should do. Of course that causes another problem because, many hunters and fishermen don’t know the laws either to determine if it’s really a violation or not, just look at the Law Forum and all the questions. Now that’s is not to say that is terrible but at the same time don’t start knocking some dispatcher for not being able to read your mind when you call either. They have to rely on the information you provide and let me tell you, I see hundreds of those complaints called in and some of the information provided stinks. I also gets calls directly from people at the office where there is no violation and what they are complaining about is not against the law. Yea, I know, your complaints were not like that. That’s what they all say until they talk to me in person and I pull the complaint. Not all but many, too many.

Last but not least, manpower. Yea I know you don’t what to hear about that either but it is part of reality. You could search this site about discussions over the years on the number of officers and find a number of those discussions. Well, things have gotten worse, not better and it will get even worse. I’ll take my District for example. I have nine counties with 12 field officers to provide 24/7 coverage for all nine counties. When I’m at full staff I only have 18 field officers which makes it impossible to provide 24/7 coverage so with only 12, well, ain’t going to happen. On any particular day because of days off, vacations, illness, injuries, training, in reality we are covering nine counties with six to eight field officers. Some complaints are not going to get answered, it is impossible.

So you have a choice. You can keep trying and reporting the violation and hopefully an officer will be able to get to it or you can be like the above post and take the attitude of “I would not give you 2 cents for our DNR and RAP” and complain about it to your buddy as something will really get done then. Then you can also be part of the problem because you are not any better either.

Back to my second paragraph above. As stated above, you are starting to sound like some of my officers. Maybe trying to make sure you provide enough information, your name and phone number so the officer can contact you for even more information. If you do provide your name and phone number and request to be contacted and you are not contacted then call the District where the complaint happened. That complaint, as all RAP complaints get put into the system and are tracked. I follow up many complaints myself with my officers but I can not follow up on every one of the complaints, that is why I must rely on my officer. Again, try being of the part to make it better and not part of the problem. Sitting around typing about your bad experiences on a computer doesn’t do anything to help. In fact, you likely do more to assist poaching than anything. The same thing I tell the officers that complain, do something to make it better, ensure they (RAP) does their job correctly and you (the officer) better do yours correctly!

I’m not saying that the RAP Hotline is perfect, far from it but, to make corrections we all must cooperate to make things better. Some complaints called in do work out perfect too. You want to give up, your problem, but you are hurting yourself and your fellow hunter more than you are hunting RAP or DNR and that’s a fact.

Huntin Horseman, I’m glad you had a good experience and I hope the bad guys get caught for you. I know you are a young hunter and its good to see, as they saying goes, your glass is half full and not half empty like many of the other attitudes. Enjoy hunting this fall but most importantly, be safe.

[NEMichsportsman]

Nice that you had a good experience HH, and thanks for passing it along!

Ray- Great post , criticizing the enforcement arm of the DNR seems to be the "in" thing to do when you are unhappy with any aspect of our State Government. Everybody wants million dollar results on a fity cent budget. It applies to the wildlife end of things as well...

If anyone really wants to accomplish anything it would be useful to elect governors and legislators who are supportive of our states resources. Constant criticism hasn't had a major impact thus far.

[Elk Guide]

great post HH.........Eclipse.......Are you saying that its no big deal if someone poaches Elk.......i guide up there and i can tell you if someone gets accused of poaching a Elk they probably did or they were with someone that did.......I have personaly found 3 poached elk in the last two years and have had great response from the Rap line and the CO's in the area .....At this time we only have some where between 650 and 750 Elk we can't afford to lose even one to poachers.....I am a little protective of our Elk heard but some one has to be ...the DNR cant do it with out our help......help a CO if you can you might just make a freind for life like i have....thanks

[grub]

I also had a fantastic experience with a CO in Macomb County the last two years. I had a problem with my neighbor shooting deer on our property year after year. Finally in 2002 I called the DNR after finding a gut pile and drag marks up to the neighbors house. I called RAP and within 2 days, the CO called and told me she had been out to the property, saw the evidence and had given the neighbor a warning. Then first day of bow season 2003, I had gotten out of my stand late in the morning and headed over to where the neighbor usually hunts on the border of our property. I instantly found a bow sitting in the field and a blood trail and orange marking tape leading about 150yds. into our property. I again called RAP and the CO was out in less than 10 minutes. I met him at the house and he actually ran out to the spot where the bow was. He picked up the bow, walked with me into our woods to see the blood and marking tape and then he told me to go back to the house and he sat in our woods until the neighbor returned. Turns out, not only did he get the neighbor for tresspassing, but when the neighbor returned to continue searching for the deer he was on his atv with no helmet and had no license with him and no case to carry his bow back on the atv. The CO followed up with me a week later to let me know he did issue some tickets and he gave me his card, email address, home number and cell number and told me if I ever had a problem with this neighbor or anyone else on the property to call him directly and he would take care of it.

In return for his help, I found out the name of his boss and sent a letter to explain how helpful the CO was. The CO again followed up with me to say "thanks." He said usually his boss only hears if something went wrong.

Now I have also had a bad experience with the DNR on Lk. St. Clair, but I can tell you that when I think of CO's, the good experience is the first one to my mind.

[Happy Jack]

I called the RAP line last Oct. 1st when I found a nice 8 point. The buck had been dead for a day or 2 and had an arrow straight down into it's back. When I pulled the arrow out I found it had a field point attached.

I called about 1 pm and a C O was at my house by 5 pm. I gave him the arrow and took him to see the deer. Since it was a custom arrow he said he would check hunters on the state land near by and try to match it up.

I know it was a long shot that he would find the person and get a confesion but at least I got to vent.

The C O also gave me his card and said to call him if I needed. I was impressed with the whole system.

[Eclipse]

Like I said Elk Hunter - Don't get caught poaching an ELK and Don't get cought poaching a Turkey. The DNR will hang you. I truly believe the DNR do not put deer poaching very high on their list. This is from many, many, many personal experiences with RAP.

[WALLEYEvision]

My last 3 experiences with the DNR RAP line (Report All Poaching: 800-292-7800) has been very positive, with very quick responses. 15 years ago...well that's a different story.

[Dave Lyons]

boehr,

I am glad you came on and defend your people. I have had a call placed on me not that long ago. My officer came out and checked me. Everything was cool.

What I would say to all that hate the DNR is could you do there job??? There is know way you could pay me enough to do there job.

I have one officer with a chip on his shoulder but I live with it. Both officer in Ottawa County are the BEST. Dave Shaw and Ivan Perez. Two top of the class kind of guys.

Being a trapper I have had many calls placed on me. Only because I am out in a field at 4am and people think I am a poacher. Everytime I have a trap stolen I report it also because it has my name on it and the officers need to know if they have a problem with a trapper and then they see my name I can prove I had stuff stolen.

Law Enforcement keep up the good work.

Dave

[plugger]

My daughter and I were investigated on a rap complaint, during the youth hunt, and it was a week and a half before I was contacted by the CO. We were perfectly leagal and the complaint was made by a neighbor who is very much an anti hunter. I was impressed with the officer who investigated the complaint. Because the alledged violation took place during the youth hunt he had checked and found out my daughter had a liscense. He brought a female sheriffs deputy with him in case they needed to talk to my daughter. He first asked to talk to me alone when he came to house because he did not want to upset my daughter if every thing was on the up and up, which it was.While I thought the officers methods were to be comended, taking a week and a half to investigate seems too long.

[FREEPOP]

I have one officer with a chip on his shoulder but I live with it. Both officer in Ottawa County are the BEST. Dave Shaw and Ivan Perez. Two top of the class kind of guys.


I know Ivan Perez personally and I second the remark that he's one of the best.

[Steven Arend]

The CO's in Berrien County are a couple of good guys. I have never had any bad experience with them. (but then I don't give them any reasons to have one.) They have always responded to my calls. It may take a while but they have always made it a point to find me where ever I maybe. Even if I'm in a different county at the time that they are free. I could tell you stories about what I have seen these guys do to catch a violator.

Steve

[GROUSEMAN]

I called RAP for the first time last fall and had a very good response. The dispatcher was very professional. I recieved a call from the local CO within an hour and a visit by the CO the next day.

Grouseman