New Broadhead...anyone seen these?

[Trushot_Archer]

I saw these on another sight and ordered a pack to try. They came today and they look great for a smaller fixed blade head. Haven't shot them yet but I plan on it soon and I'll see if they're a good as they look.

Good news is I set them up on my Black Hawk Vapors with the Turbo Nocks and they spin tested clean with no alterations...first time that's happened for me.

There from a small Co. in Utah called "Wac'em Archery" The head is called the "Triton"

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=723452

[GVDocHoliday]

Oh yeah I saw'em. I have a few samples on the way. Question, have you recieved your turbos yet from Nick for the staff shooter position?

[Trushot_Archer]

Negative...I bought a bunch outright when he released the new nylon ones.

I thought that's what they were when I saw them in the mail.

I think it'll be a while. He's signed on a lot of new guys and is probably backed up.

[GVDocHoliday]

I got my heads today...talk about wow.

I've got so many heads I want to use this year but only 6,000 available antlerless tags for Manistee Co.. Oh what to do?!

All I can say is, these heads are the truest spinning head I have ever seen...and I have seen a lot...and being only 21 years old...I hope to see a lot more. I love the design of this head, it has the nose of the Montec, which I love, with replaceable blades, that are sharp as all get out.

Not to mention the little things. I've noticed that the leading edge of the blade itself is slightly recessed below the trailing edge of the point...just this little detail will increase the blade life like no other head out there. And a majority of the heads wieght is towards the back of the ferule to distribute the weight more like a fieldpoint...this right there will add to the heads predicted accuracy.

I'm sorry...I just have to comment on how true these heads spin...I mean I spun it tip down on a table...and it just kept spinning and didn't stop. Threw on a PreSeason montec and spun it and it just didn't spin as long...I think the truer head will spin longer as less energy is being dissipated...even though both heads appeared to have no wobble what so ever...the wac'em just spun longer. I'm gonna have a fricked up quiver this year...Montec, Wac'em, steelhead, Ultimate steel, and 75 grain ultimate steel for squirell arrows.

I'm hoping to have some accuracy shooting done with these by the end of this weekend...but it might be a little longer before that gets done come to think of it.

[Trushot_Archer]

I hear ya...I've been looking at the Nitrons, Tekan, Steelforce Venoms and the Ultimate Steel. This is the first one I got though. Hopefully the search is over. I'll shoot them Sat Am.

[DUHGRAVY]

Great looking head!

What is the cut diameter and grains?

[Trushot_Archer]

1 and 1/32 cut and 100 gr. That's the only one they make as far as I know.

[GVDocHoliday]

Have we mentioned how true and straight they spin? :confused: :cwm27:

I'm sorry, I just can't get over how true they spin...man oh man, I can't wait to get my huntin' arrows built to see how accurate these things are.

[SNAPPY]

After you shoot them let us know....looks like a good one to me! Also let me know where I can get some. All info is appreciated....this forum is great!!!! :woohoo1:

[Byron]

www.wacemarchery.com (http://www.wacemarchery.com)

Also available Here (http://timbucktu.net/shop/more.php?id=457056&PHPSESSID=c72d626932dc4409cd31568620a15b14&PHPSESSID=c72d626932dc4409cd31568620a15b14) and Here (http://www.archerywarehouse.com/wackem.htm)

Only one Michigan dealer is listed there:

Archers Obsession
7270 Industial Road
Saginaw, MI 55779

Best Regards,
Byron

[trout]

Anyone shooting the G5 Line of broadheads?
I heard they have a 85 grainer coming out.
They are made in Memphis Michigan

http://www.g5outdoors.com/main/default.aspx

[SNAPPY]

Thanx Byron. I didnt even know they are in my back yard!!! I can guarantee I will be giving them a try. Hopefully they put more venison in my freezer. Thanx again!

[Byron]

Snappy,

No problem at all. Just a google search and a couple clicks around their site. Let us know how you like them!

Best Regards,
Byron

[DaYoop]

Trout--

My dad and I just switched to the G5 line. haven't hunted with them yet but know several people who have and they only have good things to say. We are shooting the 125's to get more weight for the elk hunt, but yes, I've heard about the 85 grainers as well. I've talked with the owner/inventor several times, I really like his products, and they come right from MI to boot, can't beat that right?

When I shot the Montec's they hit right where my feild tips did, flew tremendously straight--no planing what so ever. I'm highly accurate with them out to 60 yards.

[SR-Mechead]

I got the new cabelas book last night and the some of the new broadheads in there look mean. I shoot a 58lb bow with a overdraw 2016 arrow 23inches long. I have shot alot of deer this way ,but what type of broadhead do you guys think I could use . Now I use the muzzy 100 and it took me over 3 hours to tone in 4 arrows. I do have speed but lack punching power. In my younger days I worked at Bear archery in GR and I keep up with things ,but now new stuff is coming so fast it's hard to keep track :)

[FREEPOP]

Sr, maybe you should look to the tried and true cut on contact. I busted my collar bone a couple of years ago. I worked up to about 55 lbs the first year and scored on two nice bucks, both pass throughs. Steelforce non-serrated. They sharpen easily and fly very good for me and always penetrate to the dirt. Harvested around a dozen deer with them so far and am still happy.

Good luck

[GVDocHoliday]

These new Wac'em tritons are cut on contact...just like the Montec G5's...however the blades on the tritons are the sharpest I have ever seen, not to mention the best balanced broadhead I ever seen.

[Swamp Monster]

SR,
I have two opinions. (OK, more really!)
1)If it ain't broke, don't fix it! If that set up has worked well, stick with it.

2)Lose the overdraw, or atleast go with a longer, heavier arrow. Those short light arrows tend to plane easier in my experience. (I use to shoot 24" arrows with a 29" draw years ago). I had a heck of a time finding broadheads to work well regardless of tuning. If you keep that set up, I would try some two blade Steelforce heads or something similiar. The new NAP Razortech (??) is a 4 blade cut on contact that might fly well also. I would stay away from mechanicals with such light arrows even if you have the speed.

3)Go to longer carbon arrows. Depending on the brand and style you choose that is spined properly for your bow, you can keep the speed and get better fixed blade flight with the longer arrow. If you don't already, I would also consider switching your fletching to a helical and go with feathers....tend to help fixed blade flight and they are bit more forgiving. Actually, you could probably come up with some short Carbons that will weigh more than your 2016's and that may help your flight as well.

With those short arrows have you checked your FOC...the balance of your arrows. Poorly balanced arrows can lead to lousy flight with broadheads as well.

Oops, I see Freepop beat me to the two blade punch!! He's speaking from Experience!

[SR-Mechead]

This is what makes this a great site . Thanks for the help, I m copy the information now and I will try what was recommended . :)

[FREEPOP]

SR,
Oops, I see Freepop beat me to the two blade punch!! He's speaking from Experience!

;) If two people have witnessed/recomended something, it makes it easier to believe.

[Swamp Monster]

I'm setting up my stepfather with those Steelforce heads based on the info from Freepop and others that have used them. He's (my stepfather) is shooting a Hoyt Sierra Tec at 40lbs so penetration is a key with this light set up. Those steelforce look to be one of the best, if not they best option for him. If he gets to put them to the test, my season will be a success!

[FREEPOP]

Swamp the weak link with them is the ferrule. They bend fairly easily but can be straightened just as easy (aluminum). The blades are stainless but not hardened, so they sharpen very easily, in fact the best that I have ever tried. All at only 20 bucks a 3 pack.

Good luck to him........and you as well :)

[Swamp Monster]

SR, another thing to consider is switching to a drop away arrow rest. Not sure if you can get one to work with an overdraw but it could be possible. The drop away will eliminate any fletching contact and can allow you to use a full helical a little more effectively. Without a drop away, feathers are a must with helicals because they are less effected by contact with the rest. But, any contact by the fletching with the rest will be magnified by a fixed blade broadhead that is trying to "steer" your arrow.
Drop away's aren't a cure all, but I'm in love with mine and most others that have them feel the same way.
Have fun tweaking your setup!

[Swamp Monster]

Thanks Freepop! Is it true that they will sharpen them for free as well, if necessary? I like the fact that I can buy a few sets and always have a few that are ready to hunt. Plus I want them scary sharp for obvious reasons.
Heck, I may even shoot them in my set up as well, but there are just so many I want to try!

[FREEPOP]

The free sharpening was one thing that drew me to them, but after I saw how sharp I could get them, there wasn't a need.


This guy here gives the most comprehensive testing info available and strives to keep it up to date. Very good info, unbiased, and interesting.

http://www.broadheadtests.com/

[FREEPOP]

Now I see he is asking for subscribers. Well he does spend alot of money and time. He has redone his sight since I was there last and it is much faster. I think the subscription is a good bang for the buck, if you think about the cost of broadheads.

[fairfax1]

I'll echo FreePop's comments on 'broadheadtests'....put out by '5Shot'....really, Chris Fitch of Richmond (VA) ....at least, I think it's Richmond.

Chris does a terrific service for amatuer archers. He appears to be just a very dedicated hobbyist who, at least up to this point, has been unaffiliated with manufacturers of broadheads. I've been reading his reviews for going on two years and have PM'd with him on several occasions. He has always always been receptive and more than helpful.

He's sort of a one-man 'Consumer Reports' on broadheads.

His testing is often criticized as being too rigorous for real-life use of broadheads on game. So be it. The key thing about his tests is that ALL heads are run through the same disciplined protocol. So comparisons are apples to apples. Sure, none of us hunt steel barrels ....but I want to know how a head I'm considering buying performs when shot into a steel barrel vs how my current head does when shot into the same barrel. It's a standard of comparison.

As many of you know, sometimes the insights and 'personal experiences' posted on various archery forums are blatant 'shilling' by manufacturer's reps or pro-staff members. There are times when the shills pile on so much that the thread looks like one of their rah-rah sales meetings ..... I half expect to see the VP of Sales make a post saying that XXXXXX just won a set of steak knives for making 27 posts mentioning how great the company's flavor-of-the-month product is.

To date, Chris does none of that. If a head doesn't do well vs his testing criteria ...you can read about it. If the blade sharpness is C+...and not A+ ...you can know that, before spending your $35 bucks.

I've wondered how this guy could spend so much time and money ruining good heads ...and no doubt shafts ...not to mention steel barrels and used tires. If he can only do it with a 'paid subscription'...then I'm gonna subscribe. I think it may be worth it, especially if he begins to do his usual high quality reviews of other bowhunting gear.

[Trushot_Archer]

A lot of the heads Chris gets are from other archers/bowhunters that send him a head or two for him to test. I'll be sending him 2 diferent kinds here pretty quick...Cabela's lazer pros and the Wac'ems.

I tried the Steelforce last year and had very high hopes...the sharpest I'd seen out of the box (Tritons are the only other I've seen that are shaving sharp right out of the box) and great looking head...but they didn't hold up for me.

[IAIM4GREENHEADS]

GV Doc Holiday, Have you had a chance to test out those wac ems' yet?? Are they as good or better than the Montec's??

[GVDocHoliday]

Have not had a chance to shoot them yet. My setup is still setup for 3d...however I did just finish fletching my hunting arrows last night. CX 300 3d Selects. They'll be hiding a weight tube that adds 2 grains per inch. So I know they'll be packing the punch and have tight tolerances. Just from experiences with other fixed heads such as muzzy's and thunderheads, I'm gonna assume that these will fly just as good, if not better. They advertise fieldpoint accuracy put we'll see. I just love the sharpness and the true spinning aspect of them.

[woods master]

It is a good looking head but I'm looking for speed and 100 grains seem quite heavy. I was looking at the new 85 grain Montec G5, it is cast from one solid piece of steel with 1 1/8 cut dia. 3 heads cost about 30 dollars.They also come in 100 and 125 grain. The set up I am shooting for should give me 312FPS. Has anyone ever used these yet?

[FREEPOP]

Forgive me woods master, but I have to ask, why the hang up on speed? A bow and arrow is supposed to kil by massive hemorage. Not shock and tissue damage like a gun. You can get pass throughs with a 40 lb or less bow. No malice intended, just curious.
IMHO, any fixed head will probably be diffucult to tune, if at all possible.

[bucknduck]

I was trying to look up Archers Obsession out of Saginaw and no search results? No number, but there is an address. Anyone know the number so I can call them before I make the drive?

Thanks,
Rich

[woods master]

Forgive me woods master, but I have to ask, why the hang up on speed? A bow and arrow is supposed to kil by massive hemorage. Not shock and tissue damage like a gun. You can get pass throughs with a 40 lb or less bow. No malice intended, just curious.
IMHO, any fixed head will probably be diffucult to tune, if at all possible.FREEPOP, I heard that a deer can drop or duck its full body height in a half second, and being that i am shooting over 70 lbs I "that is if possible" could take a 35 plus shot on that monster BUCK in open field. If the shoot is good enought hiting vitals that deer will fall. I think its more the type of head you use that makes your impact count, fast or not.Thanks for your thought:smile-mad

[woods master]

Anyone shooting the G5 Line of broadheads?
I heard they have a 85 grainer coming out.
They are made in Memphis Michigan

http://www.g5outdoors.com/main/default.aspx
Just to let you know I have seen the 85 grain at bass proshop at greatlakes crossing I picked some up but haven't shot them yet.

[GVDocHoliday]

Now my favorite part...physics.

20 Yards = 60ft
Arrow traveling 320fps travels 60ft in .1875 seconds.
Sound travels at 1116 feet per second or easily called Mach1.
A deer drops at 9.8meters per second squared or roughly 30fps. So that translates to 3 feet per 0.1 seconds or 1ft per .0336 seconds.

Now remember, it takes half a second for your arrow reach that deer. At the moment you pull the trigger on your release, that deer hears any noise that you just made in only 5 one hundredths...or 0.05 seconds, leaving 0.1375 seconds for it to react, in which time it can drop greater than three feet...4 feet approximatley.

So if a deers going to jump the string, it will regardless of what speed you're shooting.

Just for craps I recall an HCA add advertising 420fps. At that speed it would take that arrow 0.143 seconds to travel 60ft. Which still leaves enough time for that deer to drop a little over 1 foot from the time it hears that release click.

The point I'm trying to make is...well, speed is overrated.

[FREEPOP]

Now my favorite part...physics.

The point I'm trying to make is...well, speed is overrated.

Jeeezz, took the words right outa my mouth. Yes trajectory is flater so you can use less pins. But it probably isn't too good for your bow and going lighter, you could lose penetration. The kinetic formula is E=MC^2 , I have the exact one to get your arrows' KE someplace around here. Based on the formula you would think the faster the better which is true. But it is not a linear equation and there comes a point that giving up additional weight only results in reducing KE. I personally want to throw the heaviest arrow I can without significantly reducing arrow speed. I addtion I also like cutting diameters over and inch, somewhere around an 1 3/16 or so. I have this fettish with blood trails :)
I'm not being critical of your tactics or beliefs, just wanted to share some info that I thought pertinant.

Good luck to you fellow archer

[SR-Mechead]

One thing that I have found out over the years of hunting is that in the later part of fall the deer have a lot of fat and with a pass though with a 100gr muzzy they seem to plug up and stop bleeding. I would like my arrow to stay in the deer and as its hitting the brush it is keeping the hole open and the bleed trail is easy to see. just my thoughts

[FREEPOP]

Most of my shots are done under 20 yards. I like the low hole to drain the chest cavity, again that obsession with blood :dizzy: :)

[ArrowHawk]

Hey Trushot_Archer

Thanks for posted the information about the Triton Broadheads.
I have been looking for something in 100's after dropping from 125's and these look and sound sweet. I just sent out my order this morning.

Thanks again
Arrow

[Byron]

Now my favorite part...physics.

20 Yards = 60ft
Arrow traveling 320fps travels 60ft in .1875 seconds.
Sound travels at 1116 feet per second or easily called Mach1.
A deer drops at 9.8meters per second squared or roughly 30fps. So that translates to 3 feet per 0.1 seconds or 1ft per .0336 seconds.

Now remember, it takes half a second for your arrow reach that deer. At the moment you pull the trigger on your release, that deer hears any noise that you just made in only 5 one hundredths...or 0.05 seconds, leaving 0.1375 seconds for it to react, in which time it can drop greater than three feet...4 feet approximatley.
Doc,

You were fine up until you confused velocity with acceleration. Unless it falls off a cliff, a deer's drop velocity will never reach 30 feet per second. It starts at zero velocity, and accelerates at approximately 32.2 feet per second per second (9.8 m/s/s). So, the correct formula for drop is:

Drop = 0.5A * t*t (one-half "a" times "t" squared)
where A = 32.2 ft/s/s and t is time in seconds

Since the time it takes the arrow to get to the deer is the distance (x) divided by its velocity (v) or (t = x/v), we substitute to get:

Drop = 0.5A * (x/v)^2 (where "^2" means squared)

if we factor in the speed of sound, it becomes:

Drop = 0.5A * ((x/v)-(x/1116))^2

Note this assumes the deer has no reaction time whatsoever, but in reality there will be some delay from the time the sound reaches the deer to the time it actually begins to drop. Just for discussion, I've assumed this time to be 0.05 seconds. I've listed the drops below at various distances both with and without figuring in this reaction time.

So, the final formula converted to inches of drop is:

Drop (in.) = 193.2 *((x/v)-(x/1116)-0.05)^2

x = distance to the deer in feet
v = arrow velocity in ft/sec.

I ran the numbers at 320 ft/s and at 260 ft/s for comparison.

Drop in inches with Perfect Reactions:
v 60ft 75ft 90ft 105ft
320 3.5 5.4 7.8 10.6
260 6.1 9.5 13.6 18.5

Drop in inches with 0.05 sec. Reaction:
v 60ft 75ft 90ft 105ft
320 1.4 2.7 4.4 6.5
260 3.1 5.7 9.0 13.0

Okay, enough of the physics. It's up to you to decide if the difference in drop is worth the effort, wear and tear on your bow, etc. Remember, the lighter and faster your arrow, the louder your bow. A loud bow is certainly more likely to cause a reaction in a deer at the shot.

My thought is to use a middle of the road arrow weight/speed balance. I would suggest around 6-7.5 grains of finished arrow weight per pound of peak draw weight. If you are drawing 70#, that means a finished arrow somewhere between 430 and 525 grains. Carbon arrows will give greater penetration, as well.

Wow, I'm tired of typing...:lol:

Happy to answer any other questions.

Best Regards,
Byron

[Trushot_Archer]

No problem Arrowhawk...

I shot these last week finally and was all over the road. Couldn't figure out what was going on. Even my field point groups got sloppy so I scoped the bow carefully. My center serving had slipped and turned to pooh :rolleyes:

So I re-served, and reset my nock point just a bit higher than normal to accomodate the Turbo Nocks... shot 100 or so field points again to settle it and ran the Broadheads again. 3 field tips, 3 broadheads with the Turbo Nock hunters on Carbon Express arrows @ 40 yards.

Field point grouped inside 3" diameter
Tritons grouped inside 3" as well
That's after 10 rounds of 6 arrows. And better than I normally shoot at that distance :D

I pretty much ruined the replacement blades on the Tritons as some were so close I had one head smack another inside the block and even though one blade on one head got a bit bent after the 3rd impact it still flied as true as the others.

Looks like I have a winner so far and I'll be getting more very soon.

[Uzarious]

Always aim for the center of the heart (broadside of course). If the deer doesn’t drop down on you, you've made a perfect (and fatal) heart shot. If the deer does drop on you, you've made a perfect (and fatal) lung shot. Then, when your pals arrive to help you drag it out of the woods, they will all marvel at your bow hunting acumen, having killed the animal with you excellent and perfect shot placement. And you can say: "that's EXACTLY where I was aim'n".

[holzy]

You guys are hurting my brain with all this physics talk :bash: My simple logistics mind can't comprehend this stuff :confused: I know that when I put my pin on a deer's vitals and hit my release trigger, THEY DIE!

[GVDocHoliday]

Muzzy has a new model 100 grain head out this year with a 1 3/16 inch cutting diameter...a little bit more wider from the 1 1/8 of past years. Also, two holes are better than one. If you're getting fat clogging your exit hole then you're shooten too far back. A good low exit hole right through the off side armpit will put him down quick with a blood trail that would make a vampire queezy.

[JDLIGHT]

Crimson Talon Broadheads

http://www.spintite.com/crimsontalon.html

I saw these advertised by Cabela's. My cousin was thinking of trying them out before the season starts.

[FREEPOP]

JDLIGHT, tell him to save his money.........junk and hype on those heads. There are many better out there.

[JDLIGHT]

Thanks Free, they did look a little odd! I think I am going to try the Triton's this year. The wife Ok'd a new red dot for the bow so I have to get new carbons and broadheads to go with right???

Thanks Again
JD

[FREEPOP]

You get a big okie dokie from me :)

Those Crimson blades are real thin from what I've read. Plus I for one want the rear of my arrow controling flight. Check out 5shots' website for the best info.

[Trushot_Archer]

We ran an informal test on the Crimson Talons just to see if the flew any better than the others we were using (Muzzy, Rocket Ultimate Steel, Steelforce and the Tritons)....never could get a definitive answer as the 2 of the 3 heads came apart just from impact on the black hole target :rolleyes:

They're pretty but that's about it :D

[FREEPOP]

These Sonic heads look to be worth a try for those still shopping around.

http://www.broadheadtests.com/NEWHEADS.html

[Trushot_Archer]

Free...
I kinda wanted to see those too. Unfortunatley they had some production issues and won't be available till mid September. I haven't found a way to get them....and believe me I tried.

[FREEPOP]

Yeah the way 5shot talked about them, they are definately worth a look. I am curious what the cutting diameter is on the 125 grains.

[bucknduck]

[QUOTE=Byron]www.wacemarchery.com (http://www.wacemarchery.com/)

Only one Michigan dealer is listed there:

Archers Obsession
7270 Industial Road
Saginaw, MI 55779

The correct address is:
Archers Obsession
7270 Industrial Road
Saginaw, MN 55779
Phone 218-729-0702

I was :dizzy: trying to figure out why I couldn't find the place in Saginaw Michigan until I noticed the Zip Code again. So based on the information, there are no dealers in Michigan.:(

Rich