Mathew's Outback

[Trophy Specialist]

I just got a new Mathew's Outback. The bow measures just 32" and the limbs are nearly horizontal. Set it up with a Mathew's drop away rest and built up some new Game Tracker Carbon Express arrows (6075s, 26", 100 gr. points). With a tip, the arrows weigh exactly one ounce. Set at 70 lbs. with a 28" draw and a string loop the bow shot 259-263 fps. It took me just three shots to paper tune the setup. I installed a new Hindsight and that took me about 30 shots to zero in. The Hindsight eliminates the need for a peep with a rear, cross hair aperture. After sighting it in at 10 yards, I moved back to 20 and shot a couple rounds before calling it quits yesterday. I took the bow out again today and shot 30 arrows at ranges from 15 to 30 yards. The bow is very accurate, quite and has little recoil. In fact is is so quiet that it will not require string silencers. I was able to shoot 3" groups at 20 yards and never missed the mark by more that a couple inches, which is pretty good considering I haven't shot since fall. The Hindsight seems like the ultimate bow sight. I'll have to test it during low light and out of a treestand, but it felt good to shoot and is well built. The Mathew's rest is well built, however the instructions left a little to be desired. The rest can be used as a conventional upright rest or as a drop away. I set up to drop away, which took me about two hours to install due to the conversion of the rest and attaching the rope to the cable. I had to build an arrow slide on the shelf of the bow by gluing two pieces of tubing to the shelf to create a cradle for the arrow and then covering it with stick-on felt. I also used felt to cover the overdraw guard and the riser up from the shelf. Felt was also used to cover the prongs and two allen bolts that stick up from the base of the rest. I could draw the arrow with no noticeable noise with this setup. I also got a two piece Mathew's quiver. It is adjsutable for differing diameter arrows and very well built. It has intigril harmonic dampeners, so it is quiet.

[Ken]

Looks like an awesome bow, but I don't think I can give up my Legacy just yet. But that will probably change when I go to the shop and get one in my hands. Mathews just has to keep bringing out newer and better, don't they?

[Trushot_Archer]

While I've looked at numerous Mathews bows and haven't found one that really fit me like a glove and felt "right"...the Outabck is the closest yet. I liked nearly everything about the one I shot. I wish is was just a bit longer ATA though.

Let us know how that hindsight works out. I've balked at one of those type of sighting systems as it seems like it would take up a lot of the sight picture especially in low light...just me worrying maybe :)

[Trophy Specialist]

The biggest advantage the the new Outback (and other 2004 models) has over past models is silence. They have the roller cable guard that is silent during the draw. They also have the string supressors that eliminate the need for string silincers. It's the quietest bow (out of the box) that I've ever shot.

[Swamp Monster]

Those outbacks are nice. Pretty stable for a short bow. The roller cable guide and limb mounted sring supressors are not new to the 04 line up though. They both have been available on most Mathews models for a couple of years now. I'm still not convinced that drilling a hole through the limb is a good thing, but I haven't heard of any failures to back up my fears. Thats why I'm in the food business and not an engineer I guess!

[LReed]

TS,
It sounds like a very sweet setup. Best of luck with it!!! I would definitely be interested to hear back in few weeks as to how you like the hind sight. I'm currently shooting a Mathews MQ-32 and am going to change to a drop away rest as well as considering the hind sight. I thought about it last year but the jury seemed to still be out as to whether or not I should change or not.

[thenuge15]

I just got my new outback and I love it!!! I don't know why you don't put string silencers on it, it can only make it quieter. I have a catwiskers on it and I will be adding a stabiler and limbsavers to make it even more quiet. Go to a proshop and shoot this bow! But beware you will probably buy it!

[Trophy Specialist]

I don't know why you don't put string silencers on it, it can only make it quieter.
The bow is so quiet that I don't think it needs string silencers and they tend to slow the arrow speed down. I may try them though and measure the speed again. The bow is very balanced now, but I have not shot it with arrows in the quiver yet, so it might need a stabilizer then. I need to buy another wrist sling. I tested the bow without one. When I loosen up my grip a little with the sling, I may notice a differnet balance situtation.

The Hindsight is very well built with easy, large wingnut style adjustments without the need of any tools. I've used an Eradicator sight for deer hunting for the past five years, so I am familiar with the rear sight concept. It takes a little longer to set up and sight-in a dual aperture sight such as the Hindsight, but it allows more flexibility in sightings. I made sight adjustments to releave the torque from my aim; something that can't be done with a peep. It should be much better under low light conditions than a peep sight. The rear crosshairs glow in the dark and I tested it in my dark basement and it worked great. The front pins are fiber optic, which show up good in low light, but I may need to replace the top one with a tritium pin for optimal low light performance.

[SA ULTRA MAG]

TS,

Why the change from the Eradicator to the Hindsight ?

Thanks,
Pat

[Trophy Specialist]

Why the change from the Eradicator to the Hindsight ?
I tested out all the peep sight alternative sights last year for an article I wrote for Outdoor Life. In so doing, I really liked the Hindsight. I still like the Eradicator and feel that it is the most durable sight on the market and one of the best, but it only has one pin (so to speak) and is strictly a short range sight. While it is great for whitetails, when I chased after some other critters, I had to switch sights for some extended range. I have not used a peep sight for 20+ years on any of my bows. I hate them. They are horrible in low light and rotation problems are a pain. They also cause torquing problems. With pin sights (other than the Hindsight), I simply install a nock-set where the peep would go, paint it florescent orange and then use that as a reference point to aim from. I simply line up the nock-set with the pin. Works like a charm and is just as accurate as a peep. The only problem with that setup is that I still get some torquing on occasion though.

I have always had problems with torquing the bow. I have very large arms and especially thick forearms. My hands are also well muscled. While big powerful muscled are great for some things, they are a pain in the butt for shooting a bow. I have a hard time getting a consistent grip with any bow I've ever tried. My forearm sticks way out there and tends to catch the string especially with heavy cloths on. I have to adjust my shooting form to prevent string slap. That is why remedies that prevent torquing are so important to me.

[Banditto]

My 2003' Mathews Icon has the roller too and I wouldn't buy anything that had a cable guide. I hunt in the nastiest weather and that is where a cable guide shows it flaws the most. Hunt in a 4"/hour snow storm and you just never know if your cable guide is going to freeze up--as it happened too many times to me.

And my Icon doesn't need any extra vibration dampning either.

[Trophy Specialist]

I just put another 30 arrow though the Outback and then checked the tune on paper again. It was till punching clean holes. The Zebra Twist string hasn't streached and my shooting accuracy was very good. I'm going to try some 26", 2215, XX78s through it tomorrow to see how they shoot.

[Banditto]

You know I noticed the same thing with my Icon. The string has hardly stretched at all in 2 years. I think that bows with very little vibration don't pound the living daylights out of the string so they last longer. Because with some of my older bows I was replacing the string every season.

[Grouse Hunter]

TS,


What do you do/use to keep a consistent anchor point?

[Trophy Specialist]

What do you do/use to keep a consistent anchor point?
I don't worry about a consistant anchor point. I line up the rear refference point with the front pin and shoot. As long as the sights are lined up and my form is good, then I'll hit where I aim every time. This holds true with a peep or a rear aperture sight like the Hindsight or Eradicator. Archers that rely on an anchor point for for sighting tend to be high or low a lot especially when shooting from an elevated stand. I often hear (and read) about how you should aim differently when shooting from a tree stand. My shots hit the same place reguardless of my elevation because as hight increases, my anchor point moves as I line up my shot.

[Trophy Specialist]

I added a 6.3 oz. Doinker Stubby Hunter stabilizer to the bow and also instaled a Paradox sling. I intalled a tritium pin (which I already had) to the Hind Sight and then tested in the near darkness. It worked great. I also tested the sight from two different treestands. It shot accruatly from all angles. I've shot out to 40 yards with it so far and the setup is accurate out to that range. I also tested some 2215 XX78s through the bow, which weight exactly the same as the Carbon Express arrows at 1 oz. They also punched cleanly through paper and hit the same mark. I can interchange the arrows with this bow setup, something I could never do with my old one. The XX78s shot a few feet per second slower than the CEs at 257-259 fps. I've got some lighter Beeman arrows on hand and I may have to test them to see how fast the bow will shoot with a lighter payload. I'd never hunt with arrows lighter than one-ounce though.

[thenuge15]

What draw lenght and pounds are you shooting. I'm shooting a 400 grain arrow at 27" pulling 63 pounds 229fps. I wish it was more but I guess thats what you get with a short draw. I'll be bumping it up to 70 by bow season, any idea how much that will increase?

[farmlegend]

This has been an interesting post, TS, and I thank you for sharing it with us. I've always used a peep sight. By now, I think I've used 6 different ones. And I've got to admit that my peep sight is probably the weakest component of my current setup. My peep does have a huge hole, so twilight visibility ain't bad, but it has that confounded rubber tube that make that awful snapping noise. My last peep didn't have the tube, but alignment was always a problem; had to always keep an eye on it while hunting, and had to always twist the string to correct it. So I went back to the tube model and put up with the noise.

I've decided I've had it with peep sights, so I'm seriously considering the Hind Sight. Which model are you using?

[Trophy Specialist]

FL - I'm using the Hind Sight Crossfire. http://www.hindsightco.com/hindsightproducts.html

thenuge15 - My draw length for the bow is 28". My arrow shafts are 26". The rest is an overdraw style. The bow is set at 70lbs. exactly. The advertised letoff is 80%, but I measure it at 78%. My arrows (including the point) are exactly one ounce.

[Banditto]

TS the thing I don't like about the Eradicator is the dot size. My eyes or brain (one of the two) has a hard time comprehending 3 dimensions. So when the dot covers pretty much the torso of a deer I have a hard time picking the center point. Put it this way, I am so picky about my sights I am on my umpteenth one. I don't like Tritium pins because they are so wide.

I saw that one web site where the guy modified an Eradicator with a scope on the front. I like that idea a lot.

I think I might try the Hindsight being it doesn't interfere with your pin.

[Swamp Monster]

I'm with Farmlegend on the peep site thing! I'm back to the darn rubber tubing crap because of all the same issues. It's the weakest link (other than me!) on the whole rig.
I have shot the hindsight and I like the concept. My only concern is the amount of target the crosshairs cover. Maybe if I trimmed them up a bit it would help. I like a simple site picture (matches the simple mind I guess!) and teh clutter seems to get to me.
I will find something to get rid of the peep though...

[Ken]

OK, I never should have innocently walked into the bow shop last Saturday "just browsing". Bottom line is, I didn't leave without ordering a new Outback. Wow, that's a sweet bow! :D

[Trophy Specialist]

When I was shopping for a new bow this year, I looked at too many to mention. My final decision was between the Outback and the LX. I find myself hunting from the ground more these days, so the short bow got the nod. Last year's bow was also a 32 incher. I can shoot these compact bows while sitting flat on the ground. They also work well in ground blinds with low roofs. I hear lots of hunters complain about the poor shooting qualities of short bows. Today's bows are all so light that if you close your eyes you can't tell the difference between a 32" and 36" bows.

Many shooters that try the Eradicator or Hindsight get frustrated when setting it up. The manufactures don't do a good job explaining how to sight in very well. It's actually way easier than installing a peep. First install the sight without the rear aperture. Put a nockset on the string so it lines up with where your peep would normally go (or leave the peep on the string if already there). Sight in the top pin at close range. Install the rear aperture and adjust it so that it is lined up with the nockset and top pin. You might have to make a few fine adjustments to zero it in. I set my top pin to be dead-on at 18 yards and then stack the other pins as close together as possible below. For best accuracy with any pin sight, when using lower pins, you line up the rear aperture (or peep) with the top pin while aiming with the lower pins. This is especially critical with the Hindsight. This is why many shooters have trouble using multiple pins.

[thenuge15]

I have a custom made peep that I love. It is aluminum and it has an attachment that you put in for target shooting and when you want to hunt you pop it out and it is the biggest hole out of any on the market. I also have not problem with aligning because my string loop aligns it.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

Trophy,

That is a great idea.

I simply line up the nock-set with the pin. Works like a charm and is just as accurate as a peep. The only problem with that setup is that I still get some torquing on occasion though.

I haven't used peep in years. I shoot well with out it even though I do rely on my ancor point. But I will be trying that idea out. Can you post a pic of that set up.


I tried the eradicator and It didn't suit me. I have been shooting with the same ancor point for to long I guess.

[Grouse Hunter]

Yes, this has been interesting. I'm wondering if anyone has looked at the other alternatives to peep sights. Anyon tried the no peep?

[Trophy Specialist]

Anyon tried the no peep?
Grouse Hunter - Yes I did and I didn't like it. It requires the eye and mind to do two things at the same time, which we humans are not well suited for. You must aim through the sight while at the same time lining up the No Peep.

Robert W. McCoy Jr - I do have some slides of the nockset (some where in a mountain of slides) , peep replacement. I'll look for it tomorrow.

thenuge15 - Relying on a string loop to align a peep is troublesome at times. The string loop will twist around the servings from the whipping action from shots. I'm constantly twisting my string loop around to the proper position. I add a little Super Glue to my loop and string streach (on past bows) also caused the loop to go out of position.

[One Eye]

I have tried many peeps and other alternatives. The peeps all worked good in good light, but I was not happy with them in low light. I simply line up the string with the pin, and BOOM, bullseye.

Dan

[Grouse Hunter]

TS,

I was thinking about that. I(and many others) have used a bubble level which has the same issue and didn't find it that difficult. I'm going to have to do some more research on this.

[Trophy Specialist]

The No Peep reminds me (copies the concept) of a sight that was on the market years ago called the Glow Tunnel. I tested it out and did a write up on it 8-10 years ago but I have not seen it for sale in recent years. It was a sighting system where you line up fiber optic rods to gain perfect alignment. The fiber optic rods were used as the sight though as oposed to the No Peep, which just functions as a aid to sighting. The Glow Tunnel was made in MI just like the Hind Sight and Eradicator; now how odd is that.

[Trushot_Archer]

The Glow Tunnel was made in MI just like the Hind Sight and Eradicator; now how odd is that.

Not that odd at all when you figure Michigan has the highest number of bow hunters in the country and the highest percentage of hunters per capita than any other state. I know guys from at least 5 other states that have come up with new concepts that target Michigan hunters before their own states hunters many times just due to the increased marketability.

[Trophy Specialist]

There's another one that came out last year called the Compound Bow Rifle Sight. This one, which I tested, is an add on that will work with most pin sights. It's a rear sight much like the Eradicator has where you can line up your pins. There were two flaws with that sight: It did not extend far enogh behind the riser. It also blocks out the lower pins. Remember what I said in an earlier post about lining up the rear sight with the top pin while aiming with lower pins. Well this bow makes that impossible and will force you to tilt the bow (bottom of bow out and top of bow back) to sight using lower pins. This will cause the arrows to strike high and will throw off the tune of the bow. The problem is exaserbated by the short sighting distace.

[Trophy Specialist]

Here's a scanned image from an old slide I found. Here I attached two nocksets spaced about 1/4 inch apart. I then painted the string between the nocksets florescent orange. In later years, I just used one nockset painted orange. They both worked good. When you aim, you focus on the target and pins, so the orange paint helps your eye to pick it up better because it will be blury and out of focus. In low light, the nockset(s) will show up well enough to allow good shooting beyond the limits of a peep. I challange anybody that uses a peep sight to try using this simple sighting reference as a replacement. You'll likely give up that peep fore ever.

http://www.trophyspecialists.com/photos/nocksetpeep.JPG

[fairfax1]

I'm anxious to try your idea of the nockset in lieu of a peep. I don't use a peep now due to their problems in low light; but if your device will help me 'line-up' better and sidestep the visibility issue then I'm really intrigued.

I'm spending a morning at the range this week and will give it a test drive.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

Thanks Trophy.

I'll definatly set my bow up with that this year.

[One Eye]

Boy TS, that camo in that picture sure dates that picture :lol:

Dan

[Trophy Specialist]

Boy TS, that camo in that picture sure dates that picture :lol:
Dan

In my opinion, original Realtree is one of the best camo patterns ever made for hunting from treestands. I also much prefer the old style fleece as it is much more quite than the fabrics that today's hunting cloths are made from. I still have a couple old Reeltree, Polarfleece suits that I wear for much of my bowhunting. They don't make the stuff any more, so I just keep sewing and patchig the old cloths. I have to wear modern camo for my photos that I sell to magazines, but what I hunt in is usually a different wardrobe from my photo duds.

[suppa roosta]

In my opinion, original Realtree is one of the best camo patterns ever made for hunting from treestands. I also much prefer the old style fleece as it is much more quite than the fabrics that today's hunting cloths are made from. I still have a couple old Reeltree, Polarfleece suits that I wear for much of my bowhunting. They don't make the stuff any more, so I just keep sewing and patchig the old cloths. I have to wear modern camo for my photos that I sell to magazines, but what I hunt in is usually a different wardrobe from my photo duds.

So I guess when you write your article and include the phetora of branding, we can pretty much assume you're T-S'ing us?

"I ascended the tree silently in my T.S.B.S. climbing stand, nocked a T.S.B.S. x-380 carbon shaft arrow tipped with a 125 grain T.S.B.S. Gut Ripper Broadhead, confident in the knowledge my T.S.B.S. Predator Camo would conceal me.."

[One Eye]

Yes, I had a lot of that original realtree stuff that I really liked. I also liked the original Mossy Oak.

Dan

[Trophy Specialist]

So I guess when you write your article and include the phetora of branding, we can pretty much assume you're T-S'ing us?
]
You have never seen me write an article mentioning any brands of como patterns. Furthermore, I have never been paid by any company to write about their products. I've been offered to do so many times, but I have always turned them down. If I mention any products in my writings, it's solely based on the products merret or lack there of.

[suppa roosta]

You have never seen me write an article mentioning any brands of como patterns. Furthermore, I have never been paid by any company to write about their products. I've been offered to do so many times, but I have always turned them down. If I mention any products in my writings, it's solely based on the products merret or lack there of.

So why do you feel the need to change into different hunting clothes for your photo shoots? :16suspect

[Trophy Specialist]

So why do you feel the need to change into different hunting clothes for your photo shoots? :16suspect
That's a good question. A couple of the editors that I write for critisized my hero shots before when I was wearing old camo as it made my photos look like they were all taken back in the 80s. So I was "highly encuraged" to shoot photos wearing new camo. Also, when I do a photo shoot of one of my dead deer, or action photos of hunting shots, I don't want to wear the cloths I'm going to hunt in later that day anyway as it contaminates it with sweat and grime. I'm also not saying that newer camo paterns are not good, because I do wear newer hunting duds a lot especially when the weather is bad. I have several newer camo suits that are very good. Two of the bucks I shot last year were taken when I was wearing 2003, Mossy Oak patterns. I also have a suit that is new this year featuring Realtree's latest camo pattern and if the weather is nasty this fall, it will see some use. Still, when the chips are down and hunting conditions are dry and somewhat nice, that old set of Polar Fleece Origain Real Tree is my go to suit.

[Trophy Specialist]

I got to test the new setup on game last week in the U.P. I took a big boddied buck at 20 yards. A batchlor group of bucks moved in on me at last light and they were all adults. I was hunting a ground stand and shot the buck quartering away. The arrow entered just behind the shoulder and exited the opposit shoulder breaking the bone in the thickest, forward part. The buck nearly flipped over backwards when it went to spring away. He only dashed about 25 yards before piling up. The arrow traveled 20 yards beyond the buck and buried in the ground. I found it the next day. I'd say the bow and arrow setup worked great. I tested the poundage of the bow (cranked all the way up) and it pulled at a peak weight of 72 pounds on a new scale I got. On my radar arrow speed unit, my arrows fly around 258-260 fps with a great deal of energy.

[Tbonefishin]

shoot a HOYT or Bow Tech