9/11 Hearings

[Dick Graves]

What are you folks getting out of this political, media oriented EVENT?

My take, it is proceeding on strict political lines. Ben Venista or what ever his name is should be flogged. The X-senator/congressperson, Kerry should be tried for treason.

Mrs. Rice did a fair job today:rolleyes:

Bottom line, the good stuff is being held in private session.:eek:

The bad stuff is being broadcast where one side fences with the other with all the political posturing of a "Popeye & Bluto" battle.

What should they be looking at? Who screwed up? FBI and CIA knew that the fanatics were up to something, but they could not share this information becasue of some idiotic law that goes back to the Hoover FBI days, when he wanted to control everything, and he almost did control all of this countries intelligence. (Scary thought)

These hearings should not be about who made mistakes, obviously they were made, the hearing should be about how to prevent another 9-11.

We should not argue over this freaking disaster, we should stop and say a prayer for the families of the 9-11 disaster and FIX the damned mess we are in, or we are doomed. History is the best teacher.

God bless our fellow Americans and their families who are in Iraq trying to make some sense out of this mess that we are in :mad:

History is clear, we cannot create a democracy in a country that does not want one. Examples, Viet Nam, Cuba, Somalia:confused:

How strong are our enimes? Look at the recent elections in Spain, our ally was voted out of office. Why? exactly 911 days after the World Trade Center disaster, terroists struck the commuter trains in Spain, a friendly U.S. ally changed their whole political direction. Will it happen again? YES. Where, no clue, Japan has troops on the ground in Iraq, along with England, Australia and many other U.S. allies.

My fear, the invasion in Iraq has created more enimes to the U.S. then we can all fathom.

Just my thoughts :rolleyes:

[Dick Graves]

If you listened to Mrs. Rice today, she was asked over and over again, "Is this true" or "Is'nt it true" by the committee members, what they wanted was a one word response, yes or no. This usually means they are hiding something.

When she answered, she was adament about following up on her answer, "now I want to explain or comment further" BenVinsta or Kerry would state just answer the question, she stood her ground and follwed up with the proper response and got it on the record.

If you are ever called as a witness in a criminal or civil proceeding and a "lawyer" solicits a response, just answer "yes" or "no" and you know that the question requires further comment, very politely look directly at the judge and say "your honor, now may I fully answer the question?" The response will be swift and stern "yes you may". The judge will look like a fool if he denies your very polite request.

The committee members got slammed today, her testimony was given under oathe, BenVinsta got it stuck right up his "Amos & Andy". This lady is pretty sharp!

[Moron]

I thought Rice handled herself quite well despite Kerrey and the other dingofritz(can't pronounce his name let alone spell it) trying to manipulate her answers.

It's a shame when people put party posturing ahead of seeking constructive results for our country. And I find this true of both major parties. Not saying other parties wouldn't do the same if they were in positions of power, it's just part of human nature many can't seem to rise above. Unfortunately we as a nation lose from it when it happens.

[Dick Graves]

Moron: BenVinsta, pardon the spelling was the same idiot that questioned Lt. Col Oliver North in the Iran/Contra/hearings during the Regan adminstration, Regan, the last great American President. I may be mistaken on this fact, but I think I have a video of those hearings.

As you can see from this post, President Regan is my hero!:) Just ask Momarr Kadfi or whatever his name was from Libya:p

2 pretty good books on President Regan:

Ronald Regan, how an Ordinary Man Became and Extraordinary Leader: Dinesh D'Souza

The City on a Hill: Michael Regan

The above books are for your reading pleasure or displeasure if you so choose:p

[Ranger Ray]

These committees have unfortunately turned into nothing more than political posturing. I see a lot of complaining about government wasting money, well here is a good example. The sad thing about it is nothing will come out of it. To bad hindsight is a given and foresight is a guess.

I kind of lost faith in this as soon as they had Clark testify. Why you would even give credence to a person like Clark after he flip flopped on his story is beyond me. Unless you weren’t really after the truth but just grandstanding. :eek:
How strong are our enimes? Look at the recent elections in Spain, our ally was voted out of office. Why
Because of a bunch of wimpy idiots that blow with the wind. I have been watching their news closely and the Spanish people are already talking about getting rid of the socialistic party they voted in. Seems that the new party wants to reform the social benefits the people receive. This has been a total of what? 2 months in power. This after the Democratic Party they ousted saw some of the best growth rates ever in Spain’s history. These people are not our allies. They are mere puppets that want their government to take care of them. Hell Dick I am not afraid of how strong our enemies are but am afraid of how weak our allies are. :eek:
My fear, the invasion in Iraq has created more enimes to the U.S. then we can all fathom
Get ready! I think we are about to find out.

[Chris_Davis]

Dick, you may want to check out; Reagan: A Life in Letters. It provides a good insight into the man behind one of America's greatest Presidents.

[TimT]

I heard it on the radio, and cannot put names with tones, but there were 2 individuals that were totally embarrassing. (I'm sure they're the names that you've mentioned.) There was a female democrat that conducted herself quite well, even while disagreeing with Rice's ideas.

As an American, I really hope that they're not this foolish behind closed doors.

My opinion on the results of 9/11 hearings: Well, to be honest, I feel the changes that are necessary to make sure this type of event doesn't happen again are underway by the current administration. I believe there is a mentality of "making hay while the sun is shining". In the wake of the tragedy, we're ripe for the pickings, as far as reform for homeland defense and sharing of info between agencies. Indeed, it is our President, his cabinet and the commitment of the Republican Party to national defense that will aid in reform and strengthening more than the committee will.

[snakebit67]

Mistakes were made going back 10 years. The problem, in my eyes, is that our intellegence agencies dont play nice together. Instead of sharing information for the common good, they each grandstand. Too much burocracy in the cia/fbi. What I saw of the hearing Condi held her ground pretty well. Political grandstanding for sure. As americans, we need to blame somebody. Bush in my mind is not without his share, but it goes back farther than this administration.

[DaveW731]

I can barely listen to the proceedings......the political intent of the Senators disgusts me!
I see two tragedies in these hearings;
First, there is no opportunity for a candid discussion of what went wrong so it can be fixed: since the Dems (by all appearances) are focused on fixing the blame, instead of fixing the problems, all the questions are blame-oriented. As a result, the responses are defense-oriented. Truth be dam*ed!
Second, it treats our fellow citizens as the "cause", in a way that reminds me of blaming a rape victim for being in a position to be assualted, instead of punishing the rapist.
IMHO, this "commission" is a major detriment to our nation. Tragically, it didn't have to be that way. A dispassionate search for truth would have been very helpful.

[MSUICEMAN]

yep, posturing on both sides.... when the republicans ask questions to a democrat, they are attacking, and the same when democrats ask a republican a question. Kinda makes you sick listening to it. Stop quabbling over party lines, find out what needs to be done, what happened, and correct it. The fact is 9/11 isn't Clinton or Bush's or their appointee's fault. Could it have been prevented? Possibly. Was it? Nope. Ok, what do we need to do to get our security as good as it can be (there is no real perfect system)? that should be the goal, rather than trying to pass the buck off to the next guy.

The Iraq war and quite possible debacle is another question altogether according to some. The republicans try to link the two as far as in the nation's eye, but not politically, that is kinda shaky ground. On one hand stating that the Iraq war is about anti-terrorism and about being attacked, then on another hand omitting it from these hearings about terrorism and policy other than a few lame accusatory remarks made by a few dems.

just some of my thoughts,
steve

[Swamp Monster]

[QUOTE=DaveW731] instead of fixing the problems, all the questions are blame-oriented. As a result, the responses are defense-oriented. Truth be dam*ed!
QUOTE]
Exactly!! I think the commision should have been made up similiar to a jury, with no politicions involved. And not a jury in the sense to pass judgement (as is currently the case with this commission), but a jury to ask questions....real questions. I know the general public may not have all the right questions etc, or the background information to ask the right questions to begin with but that info could have been made available for review before questioning began.
It's all posturing at this point and pretty sad.

[Pinefarm]

I find it funny that the 20/20 hindsight people are howling because no pre-emptive action action was taken in the middle east. Like an attack or invasion against Afghanistan or the Taliban. Yet, the same people are very upset about the pre-emptive action we're involved in now. Can you imagine if we'd attacked Afghanistan in the summer of 2001? Or banned young arab men from coming into the country? Any terror attacks afterward would have been blamed on that invasion and action. The anti's would have screamed "look what you've caused!" You can't win. If there's pre-emptive action, you're a war monger who did it all for oil, if you wait until it's too late, you're to blame too for being sloppy. One thing is for certain, the Church Commitee CIA rules post Watergate/Vietnem sure caused a very long term mess with our intel agencies. The CIA was only allowed to look at foriegn threats and, by LAW, weren't allowed to to even talk to the FBI about any domestic intel. What a joke!

[TheFlyfisher]

Listening to this since it started I don,t blame either Clinton or Bush. How can a president make a decision on anything when you got this so called "wall" where the F.B.I and the C.I.A can,t exchange intell. with eachother for the fear if they did make a mistake they would be disciplined or fired ? As far as this commission I would rather see the widows that been on M.S.N.B.C to be asking the questions because the questions the commision are asking are a joke. I heard better questions from the women then the commission.
And the people on this commission aren,t going to ask questions to harm anyone because they are just like the F.B.I. and C.I.A , they are fearfull of there jobs too. They backed up the C.I.A and F.B.I on things that happened so they aren,t going to make waves either. Both parties are to blame for this and don,t see it anyother way.

[snakebit67]

Saw portions of todays testimony. I was actually pretty impressed. CIA director Tennent and FBI director Mueller were on the hot seat today. Tough questions asked. My problem is both were pretty defiant about saying that both organizations needed a complete overhaul. But both did admit deficiencies. Kind of scares you when the CIA director says it will take five years to get the system in place to properly be able to warn of immenent threats.

[Dick Graves]

You guys are on the case on this one. My main question, if someone from the CIA/FBI really screwed up, why should they not be fired? If you work on an assembly line and procduce 75 bad engines, do ya think that your t-t would be in a ringer?

This country's problem with government employees, there is no credibilility/responsibility. If you screw up, you got to go, find a new job out here in the public sector, learn what it is like to work for a living!

Big problem, these people are so insulated that they have time to cover up all of their mistakes before the problem goes public and then the DOJ (justice department) helps them cover up their mistakes.

Stuff is getting ugly, in this once great Republic :(

[Chris_Davis]

One of the members of the panel was on Fox and Friends this morning. He addmitted that the hearings came away sounding partisan. He mainly pointed to the media coverage of Rice and Clarke, with the cameras running the members had a hard time remaining non-partisan. He did say that non-telivised and private testimoney were carried out with less of a partisan tone.

Anyway, most testimony supported the belief that the intelligence community has been being dismantled since watergate. They concluded that intelligence agencies can't be run in the same manner that law enforcement agencies are run. They have started to rebuild the intelligence community, but expect at least 5 years before it becomes functional.

We needed an independent investigation for this?

[suppa roosta]

Zell Miller is a Senator from Georgia and a Democrat. But he speaks the truth.
US Senator Zell Miller Floor Statement: 'A House Divided Cannot Stand'
Remarks as Delivered on the Senate Floor

After watching the harsh acrimony generated by the September 11
Commission which, let me say at the outset, is made up of good and
able members-I've come to seriously question this panel's usefulness.
I believe it will ultimately play a role in doing great harm to this country,
for its unintended consequences, I fear, will be to energize our enemies and demoralize our troops.
After being drowned in a tidal wave of all who didn't do enough before 9/11,
I have come to believe that the Commission should issue a report that
says: "No one did enough in the past. No one did near enough."
Then thank everyone for serving, send them home and let's get on with
the job of protecting this country in the future.
Tragically, these hearings have proved to be a very divisive diversion for this country.
Tragically, they have devoured valuable time looking backwards when we should be looking forward.
Can you imagine handling the attack on Pearl Harbor this way? Can you
imagine Congress, the media and the public standing for this kind of
Political gamesmanship and finger pointing after that "day of infamy in 1941?
Some partisans tried that ploy, but they were soon quieted by the
patriots who understood how important it was to get on with the war and take the
battle to America's enemies, and not dwell on what FDR knew when.
You see, back then the highest priority was to win a war, not win an election.
That's what made them "The Greatest Generation."
I realize that many well-meaning Americans see the hearings as
"Democracy in action." Years ago, when I was teaching political
science, I probably would have had my class watching it live on television and using that
very phrase with them.
There are also the not-so-well-meaning political operatives who see
these hearings as an opportunity to "score cheap points."
Then, there are the Media Meddlers who see this as "great theater" that can be
played out on the evening news and on endless talk shows for a week or more.
Congressional hearings have long been one of Washington's most
entertaining pastimes. Joe McCarthy Watergate. Iran Contra. They all kept us
glued to the TV, and made for conversation around the water coolers and arguments over
a beer at the corner pub. A Congressional hearing in Washington, D.C. is the ultimate aphrodisiac
for political groupies and partisan punks.
But, it's not the groupies, punks and television-sotted American public
that I'm worried about. This latter crowd can get excited and divided over just
about anything. Whether it's some off-key wannabe dreaming of being the
American Idol, or what brainless bimbo The Bachelor or Average Joe will
choose or who will Donald Trump fire next week.
No, it is the real enemies of America that I'm concerned about.
These evil killers who right now, right now are gleefully watching the
shrill partisan finger pointing of these hearings and grinning like a
mule eating briars.
They see this as a major split within the Great Satan America. They see
anger, they see division, instability, bickering, peevishness and dissension.
They see the President of the United States hammered unmercifully.
They see all this and they are greatly, greatly encouraged.
We should not be doing anything to encourage our enemies in this battle
between good and evil. Yet, these hearings, in my opinion, are doing just that.
We are playing with fire. We're playing directly into the hands of our
enemy by allowing these hearings to become the great divider they have become.
Dick Clarke's book and its release coinciding with these hearings have
done this country a tremendous disservice, and someday we will reap its whirlwind.
Long ago, Sir Walter Scott observed that revenge is "the sweetest morsel that
ever was cooked in hell."
The vindictive Clarke has now had his revenge, but what kind of hell has
he, his CBS publisher and his axe-to-grind advocates unleashed?
These hearings, coming on the heels of the election the terrorists
influenced in Spain, bolster and energize our evil enemies as they have not been energized since 9/11.
Chances are very good that these evil enemies of America will attempt to
influence our 2004 election in a similar dramatic way as they did Spain's.
And to think that could never be in this country is to stick your head in the sand.
That is why the sooner we stop this endless bickering over the past and
join together to prepare for the future, the better off this country will be.
There are some things - whether this city believes it or not - that are just more
important than political campaigns.
The recent past is so ripe for political second-guessing "gotcha" and
Monday morning quarterbacking And it is so tempting in an election year. We
should not allow ourselves to indulge that temptation. We should put our country
first.
Every administration from Jimmy Carter to George W. Bush bears some of
the blame. Dick Clarke bears a big heap of it because it was he who was in
the catbird's seat to do something about it for more than a decade. Tragically,
it was the decade in which we did the least.
We did nothing after terrorists attacked the World Trade Center in 1993,
Killing six and injuring more than 1,000 Americans.
We did nothing in 1996 when sixteen U.S. servicemen were killed in the
bombing of the Khobar Towers.
When our embassies were attacked in 1998, killing 263 people, our only
response was to fire a few missiles on an empty tent.
Is it any wonder? Is it any wonder that after that decade of weak-willed
responses to that murderous terror, our enemies thought we would never
fight back?
In the 1990's is when Dick Clarke should have resigned. In the 1990's is
when he should have apologized. That is when he should have written his
book. That is, if he really had America's best interest at heart.
Some will say, "We owe it to the families" to get more information about
what happened in the past and I can understand that. But no amount of
finger-pointing will bring our victims back.
So, now we owe it to future families and all of America now in jeopardy not to
encourage more terrorists, resulting in even more grieving families,
perhaps many more over the ones of 9/11.
It's obvious to me that this country is rapidly dividing itself into two
camps: the wimps and the warriors.
The ones who want to argue and assess and appease, and the ones who want
to carry this fight to our enemies and kill them before they kill us. And,
in case you haven't figured it out, I proudly belong to the latter.
This is a time like no other in the history of this country, and this
country is being crippled with petty partisan politics of the worst
possible kind. In time of war, it is not just unpatriotic; it is stupid, and it is criminal.
So, I pray that all this time, all this energy, all this talk and all
This attention could be focused on the future instead of the past.
I pray we would stop pointing fingers, assigning blame and wringing our
hands about what happened on that day David McCullogh has called "the
worst day in our history" more than two years ago
And instead, pour all of our energy into how we can kill these
Terrorists before they kill us -- again.
For make no mistake about it. They watch these hearings. They are
scheming and smiling about the distraction and the divisiveness they see in
in America. And while they may not know who said it years ago in America, they
know instinctively that a house divided cannot stand.
There is one other group that we should remember is listening to all of
this -- our troops. I was in Iraq in January and one day when I was
meeting with the 1st Armored Division, a unit with a proud
history known as Old Ironsides, we were discussing
troop morale, and the Commanding General said it was top
notch. And I turned to the Division's Sergeant Major, the top enlisted man
in the division, a big, burly, 6-foot-3, 240 pound African American and I
said "That's good, but how do you sustain that kind of morale?"
Without hesitation he narrowed his eyes, and he looked at me and said
"The morale will stay high just as long as these troops know the
People back home support us."
Just as long as the people back home support us. What kind of message
are these hearings and the outrageously political speeches on the floor
of the Senate yesterday sending to those marvelous young Americans in the uniform
of our country? I say Unite America! Before it is too late! Put aside these petty
Partisan differences when it comes to the protection of our people.
Argue and argue and argue and debate and debate and debate over all
the other things - jobs and education and the deficit and the
environment -but please, please do not use the lives of Americans and the security
of this country as a cheap-shot political talking point.

[Moron]

Amen. Well spoken words of a troop loyal American.

[Ranger Ray]

A politician with testicle fortitude. Clone him! :D Always liked that man.

[fishin' fin]

Roosta as a poly-sci teacher I am shocked that you would not see the whole thing as necessary! What happened to "of the people by the people?" I don't think we can really fix anything or demand changes unless we know what happened in the first place. Teachers do this very same thing to their students, reviewing every question and combating every false conclusion so that they will not make the same mistake twice.
As to the charge of glueing Americans to their TVs and making for conversations around the water cooler, awesome! :D Have you looked at the voter turnout rates lately, anything would be an improvement. A democracy with no voters is no longer a democracy! The less time our youth spends watching such brainless TV as American Idol and Joe Millionaire the better. I hope punks and groupies are turned on everywhere in America.
Now on to the terrorists. If the "real enemies of America" are stupid enough to be grinning over the 9-11 commission they really deserve to live in a third world country - Go ahead and 'awaken this sleeping giant' if you dare. Japan can give you some warnings on this issue. The only people I see as playing with fire are those, both American and foreign, who underestimate, we the American people. This country was not built by the John Waynes' of the world but by the silent majortiy who chose to build a beacon of freedom for all the world to see.
I think most Americans have come a long way from our forefathers assumptions that we could not make and educated choice - the time for closed door deals is over, as is the need for such things as the electorial college- but that is another axe to grind. However, I do believe that all of us recognize a disgruntaled employee when we see one. Clarke's testimony does only as much damage as to make us question some governement practices and support the movements for change.
I agree that every presidental administration for the last 25 years bears some of the responsiblity for 9-11, but I believe that these hearings are for the good of America. As we can see some three years later, there has not yet been enough forward progress in the motus opporendum of the FBI and CIA to protect us from another attack and this must be addressed immediately. They still feel they can call the shots - get with the program boys or your resignation will be required - should be what we hear from the CIC.
As to the charge of wimps or warriors - whatever! I support our troops probably more than most. My wife currently has twenty former students in Irag, as well as, a few relatives - together she and I write letters every week and contribute to care packages monthly, as well as, speaking to several GI's over the phone. They know we are behind them 110%, however, none of them would say that we would be ones to sit quietly and say nothing . My wife and I want proof, answers, and action from our CIC, period. As Jefferson says, it is not our right but our responsiblity to question our government for redress. If you don't like this I'm sure Russia wouldn't hear of having a pesky hearing like this that would be, "Pety Partisan Politics." :eek: