Pre- Vote

[Huntin Horseman]

The only place where a 13 year old can vote:D

[PITBULL]

I aint votin for none of them, Kid that sign that hampster is holding is making me nervous.

[Huntin Horseman]

LOL! You gotta vote! Write in your wife but still vote!

[PITBULL]

Funny last time I voted for township supervisor I wrote in my wife's name and she dident even get a honorable mention.
\

[predatordave]

i voted.

that little sign in your signature is a little creepy what is the story behind it?

later, dave

[back40]

I voted.

Can your sign tell who I voted for?

[fishing addict]

I,sure would like to see Edwards beat out Kerry.But then I voted for Perot.

[2PawsRiver]

Thats scarey, if it is this close on this site we might wind up with both Kerrys (I think there is only two of him):confused:

[Huntin Horseman]

I don't really know the story behind the sign. I got it off of another forum and thought it was pretty cool:)

[Getaway]

Thats scarey, if it is this close on this site we might wind up with both Kerrys (I think there is only two of him) .

Funny 2Paws!:D :D

Everytime I see that guy talk, I wonder if he had just said the opposite thing yesterday...lol.

[Jimbos]

Not 100% sure yet. While I defend Bush,and his handling of the war on the terrorist scum and his tax cuts, his proposal to let illegal(criminal) immigrants stay in this country if they have a job was like a hard slap in the face. Couple that with his silence on the loss of manufacturing jobs and the shifting of high tech jobs to India and i'm now on the fence. If Bush's proposal goes through he's resigned our kids to having to compete with low wage illegals for jobs. You tell me if an employer had a choice to hire a trained auto mechanic for example from Mexico who would be happy working for 20k a year and an American kid who knows the job is worth 50k and will not work for 20k, who is that employer going to hire? I WILL not vote for Kerry so I may just not vote at all.

[Recurve]

Originally posted by Jimbos
Not 100% sure yet. While I defend Bush,and his handling of the war on the terrorist scum and his tax cuts, his proposal to let illegal(criminal) immigrants stay in this country if they have a job was like a hard slap in the face. You tell me if an employer had a choice to hire a trained auto mechanic for example from Mexico who would be happy working for 20k a year and an American kid who knows the job is worth 50k and will not work for 20k, who is that employer going to hire? I WILL not vote for Kerry so I may just not vote at all.

Jimbos, a "no vote" is as good as a vote FOR Kerry and he'd make a very poor choice for President IMHO. His senate voting record is not good. He is a liberal from the east coast and no friend of Michigan. The fact that he is a Vietnam veteran is a non-issue and doesn't qualify him as Commander in Chief. You can bet there will be plenty of uneducated, uniformed voters, registered and provided with transportation come election day. The Dems are mad and they want GW out of office. Your vote is needed to offset those who will vote as they're told, for a cup of coffee, a donut and an afternoon out. You vote for the person you believe is best qualified for the job, out of the choices we have, even if you don't agree with every issue or action taken.

I don't agree with everything Bush has done either but he's been right on with his handling of national defense and the war on terror. This is a different kind of war and although quiet here at home, (evidence that actions taken are working) it's far from over. IMO, this is a defining issue of our time.

Iraq's WMD question be damned, we already had the right and authority to go in, (Desert Storm cease-fire agreements signed, agreed to and broken by Sadaam himself) and Bush had the intestinal fortitude to make the decision. Notice how Mohmar Q-daffy rolled over when he thought he might be next, with Iran falling in line too. Saudi Arabia also has a restless population of young un-employed, madrassa indoctronated, angry young men who could rise up any time. The end result will be a more stable middle east once a democracy takes hold in Iraq, IF we stay the course and do the difficult work. The stable flow of oil out of the middle east is in our best interests and the interests of our trading partners. Our economy was already in a downturn when Bush took office and was made more severe by September 11th. Bush has been a good Captain in a stormy sea. Anyone can steer a ship in calm water, (can you say Arkansas?).

Bush didn't give cart blanche to the Mexicans, only that they can stay here legally to work for what, 3yrs, I think, to work and then have to leave voluntarily. They're already here and have been for years. From your auto mechanic example, I don't think the customer will pay an $89.00 pr hour labor rate, (without squawking loudly) if the shop has all Mexican mechanics making only $20k. However, we certainly enjoy our cheap food, well landscaped lawns, and reasonably priced hotel rooms, all made possible and more, by cheap labor from Mexico for the jobs no Americans will take. Complicated problems and complicated issues with no easy solutions.

All the more reason to be involved, starting with your very valuable vote!

[Lunker]

Im leaving to vote now and once again I dont like any of the candidates but not voting is not an option.

[Walleye123]

I am not sure at this time...sorry,...I am doing my research

[Jackster1]

Well, today was the first day of the South-Tec Machine and Tool show in Charlotte. If it wasn't for the other vendors at the show we would have had no one to talk to! A few machining students came by and I didn't have the heart to tell them to get another gig, they have been sold out.
Mr. Bush was supposed to be campaigning at the same convention center last week in between our show set-up days. He got snowed in but I can't help but think if he saw just a small slice of the real world he would know our manufacturing might has gone to hell in a hand basket and someone will have to pay for our stupidity in giving the golden goose away. Personally, I don't think the man has a clue and if he did he wouldn't care one iota. That silver spoon of his must have robbed him of oxygen when he was young!
I guess this will strike home when those who are raking in the coin in this country through their greed and the sweat of the Red Chinese will HAVE to make up for the loss of government revenue through... you guessed it, higher taxes for the wealthy! As usual, this daunting mess will be left for the Democrats to cleanup.
When the question was asked of a few seasoned citizens (whom, by-the-way, appear to be the only Americans left who 'get it'!) what the next generation or two of Americans will do to earn a living their reply was that those in power in the government and in business today who are making these selfish mistakes with our economy don't give a rat's **** about what OUR kids will do because THEIR families will be sitting in fat city for quite some time.
Perhaps I should have told those students to go to prison. During his State of the Union address didn't Mr. Bush promise jobs for prisoners when they are released? :confused:

[Kevin]

okay, but who ya votin for? :D

[fishing addict]

This scares me.Busch is giving away our manufacturing.Clinton and Gore gave most of our farming to 3rd world country's.
If the farming and manufacturing are gone,are we all going to be pencil pushin' geeks?
I'll never fit in!:confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

[Jackster1]

As for who I'm voting for... it's still early and a lot can happen between now and November. So far though the options are looking dim... again. :(

[Kevin]

I agree it is a tough choice. I am not crazy about any of the candidates. Kerry is trying like heck to seem Kennedy-esque but he just doesn't quite pull it off does he?
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20040228/i/r1633574988.jpg

:D

[Bluegill Bob]

By November it will be vote for the one you think may put the screws to you a little less than the other one.

Sure would be nice if you could vote for a third party and not have it be a wasted vote, instead of who ever has the most money behind them (or Judges) will win.

[krt]

What Bluegill Bob said!

[Moron]

Bluegill Bob
"By November it will be vote for the one you think may put the screws to you a little less than the other one.

Sure would be nice if you could vote for a third party and not have it be a wasted vote, instead of who ever has the most money behind them (or Judges) will win."

Unless you seek instant gratification or want to be able to say you voted for the winner, how is voting for a third party wasting your vote?
If you vote for the candidate that best represents your views regardless of party or chances of he/she winning you used your vote as effectively as possible. Doing anything else is wasting your vote.;)

[Kevin]

Here are some additional alternatives:
Libertarian Candidate Links (http://www.politics1.com/libt04.htm)

[Bluegill Bob]

[QUUnless you seek instant gratification or want to be able to say you voted for the winner, how is voting for a third party wasting your vote?
If you vote for the candidate that best represents your views regardless of party or chances of he/she winning you used your vote as effectively as possible. Doing anything else is wasting your vote.OTE]Moron[/QUOTE]

What I mean by a wasted vote is; I do not belive in the Republican party. My views are more with the Libertairian party but they don,t have enough money to go head to head advertizing with the Republican or Democrats so they don't stand a chance.
As stated before I don't consider myself a Democrat but I am anti-Republican and either a Republican or a Democrat is going to win . If I vote for a Libertarian instead of a Democrat that means one vote that Mr Big oil Bush don't have to worry about.

[Ranger Ray]

Good thing you voted 29 times on this thread Bluegill Bob, otherwise Kerry wouldnt have any votes!:eek: ;)

[Bluegill Bob]

Something must be wrong with the counter . I voted 100 times:D

[Moron]

Bluegill Bob, I hear what your saying. I feel pretty much the same way of both major parties. I'm thinking a majority of Americans feel the same way, but continue to limit themselves to the lesser of 2 evils.

Do you think the major parties will have anything different to offer you 4 years from now? Where is their incentive to change when they believe people will begrudgingly accept what they offer?

I'm looking to the future hoping my actions now will give my children and grand children major parties that better represent a majority of the people.:)

[fishlkmich]

Libertarians care less about the environment than Republicans do! That's not saying S#!T for their party! The Greens and Independents don't stand a chance in Hell of winning a presidential race. You may not be "throwing away your vote", but you ARE taking it from the one of the two who stand a chance.

If you ONLY care about the environment you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you care about the economy and jobs you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you think that occupying foreign nations is wrong you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you believe in the freedoms that our forefathers died for you should vote AGAINST Bush...

This "adopted economy" crap is just about enough to make me ill. I don't even want to hear somebody moaning about how "it's not the President's fault". Where DOES the buck stop? George #1 - economy in the S#!TTER. # 2, same thing after eight GREAT years! Elect someone that might not dump a nation in debt on your children.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist!

Mark

[deepwoods]

Bush is getting my vote.

[Moron]

fishlkmich
"If you ONLY care about the environment you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you care about the economy and jobs you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you think that occupying foreign nations is wrong you should vote AGAINST Bush. If you believe in the freedoms that our forefathers died for you should vote AGAINST Bush..."

I'll probably vote against Bush, but how is voting for Kerry going to protect us from the things you mention? Kerry might be stronger on the environment but don't see him as stronger on freedoms.

What I care about the most is our constitutional process and to me the party that best represents it's intent is the libertarian party. :)

My vote belongs to me. How can I take it away from someone else?;)

As far as occupying foreign lands, I think the dems and the reps both dropped the ball on this one. I'm a strong believer that the people of any nation deserve the government they have. Might be mistaken, but offhand can't think of any nation we've rebuilt where we don't maintain a military presense. It'll be interesting to see if we ever do completely pull out of Iraq.

All for strong retribution for those who attack us. We should hit them back hard make them fear and respect our power. Occupying a foreign land creates hate, a much stronger emotion, and that will likely come back to haunt us.:(

[Chris_Davis]

Originally posted by fishlkmich
Libertarians care less about the environment than Republicans do! That's not saying S#!T for their party! The Greens and Independents don't stand a chance in Hell of winning a presidential race. You may not be "throwing away your vote", but you ARE taking it from the one of the two who stand a chance.


LOL, the Green Party cares less about the enviornment than the Republicans.

[kingfisher 11]

Bush by the numbers
Rich Lowry

February 26, 2004

President Bush is taking a beating on the economy, partly because he has failed to realize the power of numbers. In his 1996 re-election campaign, Bill Clinton took the numbers from a recovering economy and repeated them until the American public reached the point of statistical saturation and became convinced the nation had achieved economic nirvana. It was a classic case of "talking up" the economy. Lately, Democratic presidential candidates have done exactly the opposite, making a recovering economy seem a cesspit of misery. If Bush is to save his presidency, he must push back. He must tout his numbers.

The numbers speak of strong overall economic growth. The gross domestic product -- the figure for the total output economy -- grew at an 8.2 percent rate in the third quarter of 2003, and at a 4 percent rate in the fourth quarter. The GDP is forecast to grow at a 4.5 percent rate in 2004. As economist J. Edward Carter writes: "For the third consecutive year, the U.S. economy is poised to grow faster than most other industrialized economies. France, Germany and Japan, for instance, are not expected to grow even half as fast as the United States."

The numbers indicate an economy constantly finding new and better ways to work. Nonfarm productivity -- a crucial indicator of economic efficiency that corresponds over the long term with higher wages and greater national wealth -- grew at a healthy 4.2 percent rate in 2003. During Bush's first three years in office, productivity has been increasing at a 4.1 percent annual rate, the best start to any presidential term in roughly 50 years.

The numbers highlight a booming housing market. The rate of homeownership hit 68.6 percent during the past three months of 2003, an all-time high. Sales for new and existing homes were also at all-time highs last year. Housing starts have jumped 26 percent since 2001, and the 30-year fixed mortgage rate has dropped 20 percent, from 7.06 percent to 5.66 percent.

The numbers tell of bustling activity all around. Manufacturing production has increased 2.3 percent since January 2003. There was a 10 percent increase in equipment and software spending in the fourth quarter of 2004, the third consecutive quarter of strong growth in such investment. In January, retail sales were up a robust 5.8 percent over a year earlier. Profits among companies that are part of the Standard & Poor's 500 stock index increased by 26 percent in the fourth quarter of 2003.

The numbers trumpet a stock market that has recovered from the Clinton era bubble. Since the trough of October 2002, the stock market's value has increased by more than $4 trillion. The market capitalization of the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ has grown roughly 40 percent since October of 2002.

What do the numbers say about those tax cuts that are either irresponsibly large or laughably small, depending on which Democrat is attacking them? Personal tax payments have declined 19 percent since 2001, and disposable income has thus increased 11 percent. In 2004, U.S. households are expected to receive $300 billion more in income-tax refunds than in 2003 (yes, the budget deficit has gone up, but it is economically inconsequential, and Democrats don't have any serious plans for reducing it anyway).

The numbers provide some perspective on Bush's biggest political liability: lagging job growth. Since reaching a high of 6.3 percent in June 2003, the unemployment rate has dipped to 5.6 percent, lower than the average unemployment rate of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.

The numbers even like George Bush more than Bill Clinton. According to J. Edward Carter's calculation, during the first three years of the Bush administration compared with the first three years of the Clinton administration, the inflation rate is lower (1.9 percent versus 2.6 percent), the unemployment rate is lower (5.5 percent versus 6.2 percent), annual productivity growth is higher (4.1 percent versus .5 percent), and the increase in nonfarm real compensation per hour is higher (+0.8 percent versus -0.3 percent).

Bush should introduce the American public to these numbers. They are among the best friends he has.

[snakebit67]

The gap is widening

[Swamp Monster]

Kingfisher II, be carefull now! You're gonna give those Kerry supporters a headache! Their not interested in facts and numbers that back those facts up. Emotion is the driving force behind their support for Kerry and the facts be damned. They speak of lies and scandals and conspiracy theories, non of which have been proven. They drool over editorials as if they are proven gospel.

Numbers and proof are just too much to accept.

All this doom and gloom about the economy is just that....media frenzy. Why is it that I have to wait two hours to get into a restaurant on the weekend and they are building them as fast as they can? I was at the cycle dealership Saturday looking at new toys and they sold $30,000 in bikes in 30 minutes I was there (Metrics...not Harleys!)
I'm not saying all is rosey in all corners, never is and never will be. I guess if all you do is watch the news you would think we will all soon be living in dirt huts etc...the doom and gloom gets the ratings.

[kingfisher 11]

A reason why jobs are leaving......
The Manufacturing Institute of the National Association of
Manufacturers ( www.nam.org ) reports manufacturers are saddled with $5/hour in various regulatory and compliance charges. This also equals all productivity gains since 1990.

Wonder why jobs are going overseas. This cost alone is several factors above the wages paid to overseas workers. Too many regulations, too many lawsuits, and too many environmental laws. In additions, unfair trades practices add to the disadvantage that we are encountering.

I notice HR really pushes the issue of lost jobs evey time he hammers Bush. Then I realized probably many of own personal endevors may cost more jobs then he wants to acknowledge.

Facts are the best thing I guess. More to come!

[Getaway]

Wonder why jobs are going overseas. This cost alone is several factors above the wages paid to overseas workers. Too many regulations, too many lawsuits, and too many environmental laws. In additions, unfair trades practices add to the disadvantage that we are encountering.

I notice HR really pushes the issue of lost jobs evey time he hammers Bush. Then I realized probably many of own personal endevors may cost more jobs then he wants to acknowledge.

Well said KingfisherII!!!!

I've been called a conservative "wacko" before and when I asked for facts, Mr. HR disappeared for a while. He had a chance to sway my opinion and he failed. I guess facts don't really matter to the libs.

[Neal]

This "adopted economy" crap is just about enough to make me ill. I don't even want to hear somebody moaning about how "it's not the President's fault". Where DOES the buck stop? George #1 - economy in the S#!TTER. # 2, same thing after eight GREAT years! Elect someone that might not dump a nation in debt on your children.

Ok Fish, I'll play...

What specific policy or action was implimented by the Bush Administration, that caused a bad economy?

[markbouman]

Just curious .... for those that voted Kerry: Are you voting for Kerry or against Bush?

On another note, I own a small business and would shudder to think of the taxes we'd owe (under Kerry) if we made too much of a profit .... you know, "share the wealth". That to me, is NOT the American way! I don't work my tail off so someone else can sit on their arsk.

Disclaimer .... my $0.02 .... sorry if you don't agree.

[Swamp Monster]

Be careful Mark....some folks on here might label you greedy. Heavon forbid you make the decison on what you do with the money you EARNED!

[Jackster1]

I'd be happy with a flat tax. Heck, forget the 7-10% some people say we ALL would pay, make mine a simple 14% and we'll call it EVEN.

Deny it as you may, greed does exist, Ask Martha and the Imron crew! :D I'm sure some people would like that word to go the way of the term 'fair' trade.

[Swamp Monster]

Sure greed does exist, no doubt. But everyone wants to earn a living correct? If you think your worth $10 an hour and your fine with that great.....I'm not and neither are my services. If I want to start a business and many folks do, it's because I think I have something to offer that people will pay for. And If they will pay the amount I ask, does that make me greedy? Or does it make me greedy if people are paying me more than they are paying you? THIS is the root of the question right here! Am I greedy because I want to grow my business and hire employees and so on? Or am I greedy because your willing to go to work for me at an agreed upon price? God forbid my vision and my "greediness" puts a roof over your head and feeds your family. Without jealousy there would be no greed......

Or maybe you would prefer to have your job picked for you based on your test scores in 8th grade? This way there is no greed or no blame etc.
Socialism is alive and well in the land of liberals!

[Ranger Ray]

HEY! HEY! Waite a minute! I know I voted for Kerry but it added to Bushes. Waite just a minute! This has got to be a right wing conspiracy! You stole the darn vote in 2000 and your trying to steal it again aren’t you? ;)

[Jackster1]

I think I know where I went wrong. I went to church and listened. 'Back in the day' they used to teach and preach about greed. Now I wonder why since there seems to be no such thing. :confused:

[Jackster1]

Originally posted by markbouman
Just curious .... for those that voted Kerry: Are you voting for Kerry or against Bush?

On another note, I own a small business and would shudder to think of the taxes we'd owe (under Kerry) if we made too much of a profit .... you know, "share the wealth". That to me, is NOT the American way! I don't work my tail off so someone else can sit on their arsk.

Disclaimer .... my $0.02 .... sorry if you don't agree.

How did your business do during the Clinton era? There were smiling faces all over the place back then if I recall. I know that as fact and I didn't even care for the guy. We weren't 'taxed' into oblivion and weren't 'spent' into a deep, deep debt.
The problem with this 'their gonna raise taxes and their gonna grab our guns' talk is that 8 years of recent history proves otherwise.

[Swamp Monster]

Originally posted by Jackster1
I think I know where I went wrong. I went to church and listened. 'Back in the day' they used to teach and preach about greed. Now I wonder why since there seems to be no such thing. :confused:

Another liberal take on what was really said..........

If you read my post correctly the first time you would have realized not once in my post did I say greed did not exist.

[Getaway]

Another liberal take on what was really said..........

Get used to it Swamp Monster, there's going to be alot of that between now and November.:mad:

[Jackster1]

Originally posted by Swamp Monster
Another liberal take on what was really said..........


Ooooooh! The 'L' word! What a novel retort! Bet it took a while to come up with that! :rolleyes:
I'm worse than a liberal or a mind-numbed rightest, I'm a moderate who uses the ability to take the blinders off and look at all sides of an issue. Looking at issues the past three years and the mess our standing leader made of things I'm glad we will be rid of him come January.

[Getaway]

Looking at issues the past three years and the mess our standing leader made of things I'm glad we will be rid of him come January.

Jackster, look at the above poll. If that is any indication of what the rest of the country thinks, then not many people agree with you. Us "rightists" must not be too "mind numbed". We are usually the ones who create jobs for people like you. At least, those of you who want to work rather than be supported by the government.

[Jackster1]

Originally posted by Getaway
Jackster, look at the above poll. If that is any indication of what the rest of the country thinks, then not many people agree with you. Us "rightists" must not be too "mind numbed". We are usually the ones who create jobs for people like you. At least, those of you who want to work rather than be supported by the government.

If Bush gets 70% of the vote as in the above poll I'll hand you a $100.00 bill.
Why is it the 'right' always puts the cart before the horse? If you have no consumers the need to hire people wouldn't exist. It used to be a nice, full circle; working people would buy things which spurred the economy and brought about growth and wealth at all economic levels. Nothing 'liberal' about that, it was once called Capaitalism. The wealthy earned their wealth and the average Joe earned a good living and helped America remain prosperous.
Reagan sold us 'trickle down' economics that made some semblance of sense back then. The job makers WOULD invest in new hires and new plants HERE! That isn't happening now. Any breaks at the top stay there and the gap between wealthy and poor grows and grows as most of the working class fall by the wayside. The sad thing is that this IS happening more and more every day. Sure, a few middle income earners make their way up, and God bless them, but a majority do Not fall upward.
I guess I would just like to see a common sense approach to creating wealth across the board and not the top-heavy hand outs I see taking place these days.

[AceMcbanon]

Why does almsot everyone on this site think people are either conservative or liberal?? A huge majority of the population is independent moderates. Winning the moderates is what wins you the election.

[Moron]

Ace, I'm willing to bet there are just as many definitions as to what a liberal and conservative are as there are people labeling others with these handles.:)

Nearest I can figure liberals seek to legislate compassion and conservatives try to legislate morallity. Both worthy personal traits, neither of which is a worthy function of our government.:)

Unfortunately most of the moderates end up compromising their beliefs and voting for what they consider the lesser of 2 evils, results in the same choices the next election.:(

[kingfisher 11]

Ace, Moron
I think both of you are right. I would say that I am more moderate. I disagree with a lot of the conservative views. I just diagree with many more of the liberal views. I also like to think morality is very important. I think the government should set example and lead with good morals.

What kind of impression does my children have of government when they hear the pres is playing with cigars and an intern in the oval office?

I sure wish an average guy who falls somewhere in the middle could get elected in the future. I just don't think it will happen. Takes too much pull from special interest groups just to be nominated.

I will continue to vote for the lesser of two evils.

[snakebit67]

kingfisher, I'll be your VP;)

[Swamp Monster]

Jackster, I too consider myself a moderate. (honestly, I think most people when asked woould lean toward the middle.) I agree and disagree with issues on both sides of the "fence" .

I just find it interesting that as soon as I use the word liberal you quickly embrace it as a dirty word. Interesting how that word is perceived isn't it?

Bush about pushed me over the edge with his immigration plan. Then I looked at the plans of every democrat in the race and they are all pretty similiar....basically each make it easier for illegals to integrate into our workforce. I have yet to read or hear a solid plan by ANY of our potential leaders on what to do about the current and future job market. My big fear with the dems is that they will regulate and tax small and large business to much and force even more jobs accross our borders. Just because big labor supports Kerry, this means little or nothing to me. Big labor has a history of blindly supporting the democratic party and I think the high ups in organized labor could care less about the little guy in the small union shop........those "higher ups" are as greedy as any CEO in this country...they just don't get the press.

We can argue all we want on this site....it's a lot of fun and it's interesting to see the many different viewpoints among us. At the end of the day though, I'm betting we agree on more issues than we all realize. We all want a strong economy, none of us want to wage war if we don't have to and we all want clean water for fishing and land to hunt.....we just have different ideas on how to achieve this.

[snakebit67]

amen

[Ranger Ray]

We can argue all we want on this site
Darn good thing! Man for a few posts I thought I was in the knitting.com forum.;)

[Dawg]

I always have to laugh (although it is quite sad) when people make the observation that the export of -insert type- jobs seems to happen overnight or during a single/double presidential term. I have to wonder if it just recently hit home or if they are spinning propoganda with 'moderate' intent. It's been happening for decades and here's a little secret: the trend will continue, no matter who lives in that white house. Because: OUR TAXES ARE TOO HIGH!

My self employment tax eliminates 40% of the money I earn. Most of what I purchase with the remainder costs 6% more and then I pay another 6% in property taxes. So, quite easily for every dollar I earn the government gets $.50. India's income tax ceilings where ours begins. European nations lost mfg jobs because of over taxation and we're right behind them. So load up the Mayflower, what we left behind has landed.

Without tax cuts American business will choose not to compete on unlevel ground, and the American consumer will use their wallet to tell them "it's OK." If you think Democrats don't raise taxes just wait until you renew your vehicle registration but ask for a stool before they cash you out - pun intended.

[markbouman]

.... Brother Dawg!

[Jackster1]

In U.S.A. Today this morning they mention that 2 billion dollars went to off-shore jobs in the year 2000, this year it looks like 136 billion dollars will be given to off-shore workers. Quite the trend. The sad part is that this money would have gone to U.S. workers who would have happily paid taxes on it.
I can't wait until they take the tax write-off away that pays companies to hire off-shore workers!

[Neal]

I can't wait until they take the tax write-off away that pays companies to hire off-shore workers!

Could you explain this please.:confused:

Neal

[Dawg]

"The sad part is that this money would have gone to U.S. workers who would have happily paid taxes on it."

Sure they'd rather pay taxes than not have the income, but why would the employer pay you twice as much? Only if we were twice as efficient or the employers were civic martyrs.

The transfer of tech jobs began long before GWB but the scale was limited by telecom speed and bandwidth. Essentially your blaming the president for the progression of technology. The only way to be competitive with foreign markets is to reduce the cost of doing business in America: cut taxes and streamline government.

[MiketheElder]

Straight from the horse's mouth: GWB

"I propose a new temporary worker program that will match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs. This program will offer legal status, as temporary workers, to the millions of undocumented men and women now employed in the United States, and to those in foreign countries who seek to participate in the program and have been offered employment here. This new system should be clear and efficient, so employers are able to find workers quickly and simply.

All who participate in the temporary worker program must have a job, or, if not living in the United States, a job offer. The legal status granted by this program will last three years and will be renewable -- but it will have an end. Participants who do not remain employed, who do not follow the rules of the program, or who break the law will not be eligible for continued participation and will be required to return to their home.

Under my proposal, employers have key responsibilities. Employers who extend job offers must first make every reasonable effort to find an American worker for the job at hand. Our government will develop a quick and simple system for employers to search for American workers. Employers must not hire undocumented aliens or temporary workers whose legal status has expired. They must report to the government the temporary workers they hire, and who leave their employ, so that we can keep track of people in the program, and better enforce immigration laws. There must be strong workplace enforcement with tough penalties for anyone, for any employer violating these laws.

Undocumented workers now here will be required to pay a one-time fee to register for the temporary worker program. Those who seek to join the program from abroad, and have complied with our immigration laws, will not have to pay any fee. All participants will be issued a temporary worker card that will allow them to travel back and forth between their home and the United States without fear of being denied re-entry into our country. (Applause.)

This program expects temporary workers to return permanently to their home countries after their period of work in the United States has expired. And there should be financial incentives for them to do so. I will work with foreign governments on a plan to give temporary workers credit, when they enter their own nation's retirement system, for the time they have worked in America. I also support making it easier for temporary workers to contribute a portion of their earnings to tax-preferred savings accounts, money they can collect as they return to their native countries. After all, in many of those countries, a small nest egg is what is necessary to start their own business, or buy some land for their family.

Some temporary workers will make the decision to pursue American citizenship. Those who make this choice will be allowed to apply in the normal way. They will not be given unfair advantage over people who have followed legal procedures from the start. I oppose amnesty, placing undocumented workers on the automatic path to citizenship. Granting amnesty encourages the violation of our laws, and perpetuates illegal immigration. America is a welcoming country, but citizenship must not be the automatic reward for violating the laws of America. (Applause.)

The citizenship line, however, is too long, and our current limits on legal immigration are too low. My administration will work with the Congress to increase the annual number of green cards that can lead to citizenship. Those willing to take the difficult path of citizenship -- the path of work, and patience, and assimilation -- should be welcome in America, like generations of immigrants before them. (Applause.)

In the process of immigration reform, we must also set high expectations for what new citizens should know. An understanding of what it means to be an American is not a formality in the naturalization process, it is essential to full participation in our democracy. My administration will examine the standard of knowledge in the current citizenship test. We must ensure that new citizens know not only the facts of our history, but the ideals that have shaped our history. Every citizen of America has an obligation to learn the values that make us one nation: liberty and civic responsibility, equality under God, and tolerance for others.

This new temporary worker program will bring more than economic benefits to America. Our homeland will be more secure when we can better account for those who enter our country, instead of the current situation in which millions of people are unknown, unknown to the law. Law enforcement will face fewer problems with undocumented workers, and will be better able to focus on the true threats to our nation from criminals and terrorists. And when temporary workers can travel legally and freely, there will be more efficient management of our borders and more effective enforcement against those who pose a danger to our country. (Applause.)

This new system will be more compassionate. Decent, hard-working people will now be protected by labor laws, with the right to change jobs, earn fair wages, and enjoy the same working conditions that the law requires for American workers. Temporary workers will be able to establish their identities by obtaining the legal documents we all take for granted. And they will be able to talk openly to authorities, to report crimes when they are harmed, without the fear of being deported. (Applause.)"

An Argentine immigrant who has lived here for over 20 years explained to me while I was in California that the San Fernando valley would cease to be the great food producer that it is without immigrant workers. "Americans" consider themselves too good to stoop to picking vegetables.

Even so, my opinion is that food prices will go up even higher because the government will be more involved.


Big Mike

Some people don't know, and they don't know that they don't know. Fits me from time to time but that doesn't stop me from running my mouth anyway.

[Can't Touch This]

I am too young to vote, and don't know a whole bunch about p[olitics, but, i know everyone wants bush out, yet, look at the margain he is winning by!!!:eek: :D , Go GWB!!! I don't know why but, you da man!!!!

[Randy Kidd]

You guys don't want me to vote.. The first time I was able to vote I voted for NIXON, I have taken personal responsibility for the plight of the nation since then. But in my defense I fell victim to a slick propaganda slogan at the time, heck when you think about it, it fits even today, (just change the name) NIXON WAS THE ONE IN 68..HE'LL BE A BIGGER ONE IN 72. Made me vote for him;) :p

[brymoore]

I'm amazed at how many posts in this thread show an ignorance to basic economic.:rolleyes:

[Ricky Missum]

Old Jimmy was down by a few states and he needed all the help he could get! Didn't help to much! I just love the folks who can tell the future! If everone knows what's gonna happen in the next few years, let's have a meeting at Northville Downs! Do we all bet on the favorite nag, or take a chance??????????????????

[Ranger Ray]

Please enlighten us with your wisdom o great brymoore. ;)

[brymoore]

Well, seems that people think that the government can create jobs. How?

[Moron]

Well, seems that people think that the government can create jobs. How?

Our federal government gets bigger every year.;)

[Getaway]

Create jobs?? Yeah why not. Some people in this country want the government to do everything else for them, why not create work too.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: