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Melon
10-29-2003, 11:47 PM
2 brothers found guilty of murdering hunters

Wednesday, October 29, 2003

BY HUGH MCDIARMID JR.
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


STANDISH - For almost two decades, the mystique shrouding the Duvall brothers' involvement in the disappearance of two metro Detroit hunters mushroomed like an urban legend.

The legend crashed down on top of the pair Wednesday in the 120 minutes it took jurors to find them guilty of first-degree murder in the bludgeoning deaths of Brian Ognjan of St. Clair Shores and David Tyll of Troy.

Raymond (J.R.) Duvall, 52, and Donald (Coco) Duvall, 51, now face a mandatory sentence of life in prison without parole for the 1985 murders on a cold, dark, rural road near Mio.

For the families of the murdered men, it was a bittersweet moment.

``They took my son. It doesn't bring him back, but it's something,'' said Tyll's father, Arthur Tyll. He quivered with emotion outside the courtroom as he leaned unsteadily on a silver metal cane. ``I was glad to see them cuffed, and I can't wait to see them in chains.''

The jury's quick verdict stunned many observers who had settled in for a long stretch of deliberations over mountains of evidence presented in the 7-day trial before 23rd Circuit Judge Ronald Bergeron.

Police escorted jury members, who declined comment, to their cars after the verdict.

As the word ``guilty'' came from the jury foreman, Raymond Duvall dropped his head on the defense table briefly. Donald Duvall sat stoically. Some of their family members wept quietly as the pair left the courtroom in handcuffs. The family members declined comment as they hurried from the building.

The hunters' disappearance 18 years ago - over the weekend of Nov. 23-24 - sparked an intensive manhunt that attracted national publicity and examinations of the case on TV shows like ``Unsolved Mysteries.''

Dozens of lakes and rivers were searched, fields dug up, cadaver dogs called in, aerial searches conducted and ground-penetrating radar employed. Police even acted on tips from psychics, but no trace of the men, their belongings or their truck was found.

The investigation, spearheaded by the Michigan State Police, eventually focused on the Duvalls, two of a tightly knit clan of seven brothers who were known as hard-drinking, hot-tempered brawlers.

Donald and Raymond Duvall spent much of the 1980s living in a succession of trailers and small houses in the heavily forested woods of northeast Lower Michigan. They cut firewood and dealt in junk cars for a living, supplementing their incomes with poached fish and game.

According to testimony at their trial, the Duvalls bragged of the murders to family members and friends, who seldom told police because they feared retaliation. The brothers told several people they disposed of the bodies by feeding them to pigs.

The testimony painted Raymond and Donald Duvall as ruthless men who were quick with fists and threats, brawling frequently with their brothers and sometimes with their wives and girlfriends.

More than a half-dozen witnesses cited terror and threats as factors in not coming forward with information.

``Their human faces are nothing more than masks for monsters,'' said Donna Pendergast, assistant state attorney general, in her closing argument Wednesday.

She shot frequent glares in the Duvalls' direction as she lobbied jurors. The crime ``is an evil so dark your worst nightmare pales in comparison,'' she said. ``There is no understanding of pure evil, only the recognition of what it is.''

Despite the campaign of fear, witness statements trickled out over the years, including sealed testimony from the Duvalls' own brothers at a 1990 Oakland County grand jury hearing. The final piece to the puzzle came in 1999, when a tip led State Police Detective Sgt. Robert (Bronco) Lesneski to the doorstep of Barbara Boudro.

For several years, she refused to fully cooperate out of fear the Duvalls would kill her, she said. Finally, under oath at a special hearing this year, she admitted to being a witness to the beating in a field near her home.

There, she said, she watched as Donald Duvall crushed Tyll's skull with a baseball bat before the two brothers beat Ognjan to death with punches and kicks.

``I've never had a trial quite like this,'' Pendergast said. ``We had a witness who had some problems,'' she said, referring to Boudro's nervousness and hard-drinking lifestyle. ``But I'm glad after all these years we went for it. I thought the family deserved closure after 18 years.''

Defense attorneys said they planned to appeal the convictions.

``Certainly,'' said Seymour Schwartz, Donald Duvall's attorney. ``It's a murder conviction. You can't let it lie.''

He said he was unsure on what grounds he would challenge the verdict, but said he thought the trial and judge were fair.

Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox said he is confident the verdict will stand if the case is appealed. ``We have the best prosecutor in the state doing the case,'' he said of Pendergast.

Pendergast is married to Free Press columnist Brian Dickerson.

Both Pendergast and Lesneski choked back tears after the verdict, accepting praise from dozens of Tyll and Ognjan family members who had sat through the trial. The men were both 27.

Helen Ognjan, 84, spoke softly after the verdict. Brian Ognjan was her only child.

``I'm glad,'' she said. ``I'm just glad.''




Melon
10-29-2003, 11:48 PM
Im kind of suprised they were convicted since there was not a single piece of physical evidence.

Lunker
10-29-2003, 11:58 PM
Im glad justice was served.

The Whale
10-30-2003, 04:24 AM
I gotta believe that justice was indeed served here. I believe they did do the crime. Purly on observation of their reactions as the guilty verdict was read. One drops his head on the table briefly and remains silent, the other "sat stoically". :rolleyes: I know if I had been the one on trial, and had NOT done the crime, then they bring back a guilty verdict, I would have LOST MY MIND SCREAMING OUT "I didn't do it !, no way it was me !, I'm innocent !, INNOCENT !!! I tell ya. :D sobbing, more sobbing, grumbling "not me", "it wasn't me". :eek:

Hope they FRY !!!

Whale :D :cool:

DuckMan
10-30-2003, 07:09 AM
I am a little shocked too. I am not defending these guys by any means, but you need evidence to convict people. You can't go into it "thinking they did it" or you wouldn't be serving justice. I recently sat on a jury and found the guy not guilty of felony possesion of a firearm. Do I think the guy had possesion of the gun? Absolutely. Did the prosecutor prove the case? Absolutely not. Not enough real evidence. I kept putting myself in that position and thought about how I would want people to judge the case.

If the Duvall brothers did it, that is great that they are behind bars (provided they don't win appeal), but I am still surprised that they were found guilty. No bodies. No evidence. Sketchy witness accounts. I wouldn't want to be in that position. They may have been scum, but it doesn't sound like they proved the case.......of course I wasn't at the trial so what do I know. :confused:

I feel very sorry for Barbara Boudro. Her life is going to suck now.

Beave
10-30-2003, 08:39 AM
They pretty much got them on the fact that they had multiple witnesses with the exact same story. The guys were last seen in the bar and had had some sort of confrontation with the Duvalls.

Plus, one of the big reasons the police focused on them in the first place was they figured the Duvalls were some of the only people with the ability to dispose of both bodies and a vehicle. You may have noticed they dealt in junk vehicles.

When you've got 6 or 7 people saying they were told the same
thing, and all of the circumstancial evidence focueses on the same two guys, you occasionally do get convictions.

What bothers me more is that these lowlifes sound like they've got a rap sheet a mile long for all sorts of stuff. At what point should they have been tossed in prison for that? How many poaching and assault convictions does someone need before we send them away?

WILDCATWICK
10-30-2003, 11:00 AM
Bizare stuff. Sounds like they probably got the right people. Unfortunatly, I stress probably. I thought to be convicted it had to be beyond a resonable doubt. I find it hard to beleive a jury would only take 2 hours, on no evididence, to put someone a way for life. And I hope to God that no one ever say's I did something and I convicted because of the words of others. I'm not so sure the court system worked properly there.
Last comment, how will the defense attorney appeal if he already stated that it was fair trial? I thought that once there is a judgement, the only things you can appeal is not the decision but procedures of the court.:confused:

IT pimp 2002
10-30-2003, 11:12 AM
Too bad we citizens will now be paying for these 2 loosers at life.
Of course we could have been paying all along.

farmlegend
10-30-2003, 03:36 PM
Poachers? Don't need to hear another word about lack of physical evidence. Lock 'em up.

Dawg
10-30-2003, 04:24 PM
I read going in that the prosecution had a very compelling case. I've got to imagine that the corroborated testimony from multiple family members was the most damaging, especially when it goes to the lack of physical evidence.

We've been carrying these guys for years but I'm sure the cost just went up.

NEMichsportsman
10-30-2003, 05:11 PM
These two are scum...whatever they end up with is way better than they deserve. Shooting someone is one thing, it takes a whole differnt kind of animal to smash somebodies head with a baseball bat and kick another guy to death. Sad to think about that 84 yr. old mother having to hear all the grisly details of her sons murder. Even harder to think that this happens hundreds of times each day.

We put way too many of these POS in prison. Line them all up once a year, I got a lot of guns to sight in annually!

subocto
10-30-2003, 05:24 PM
From what ive heard and read abou these guys they have witnesses whove said they had bragged about feeding them to pigs!!!!! what evidence can there be??? and threats against people... I think they wil get what was coming to them in one way or another.

the scary part about all this is one of my students says they are his cousins and that hes hunted with them before. so he says ...he seems proud to be a kin to these criminals. could be BS but danm:eek: :rolleyes:

Swamp Monster
10-30-2003, 05:34 PM
I'll take a little more narrow minded view of the situation.......I think these two got exactly what they earned! I think our judicial system worked just fine in this case. Too often monsters like these guys get off on some technicality or find a way to beat the system. Not this time. A jury of peers obviously felt there was more than enough evidence and that the prosecution made the case to have a judgement so quickly.

eye1zLotto
10-30-2003, 06:01 PM
A jury of your peers + "the best prosecutor in the State" + fear of retribution if found innocent = a conviction!

Walligator
10-30-2003, 06:30 PM
I live in Arenac Co., so I've heard about this case for years. There is no doubt the Duvall's are not your upstanding citizens of the community. They've been arrested for many things before. In my opinion, I don't see how they were convicted either. Without ANY evidence whatsoever, only what many witnesses said happened. I too, thought you had to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. No one on that jury had a single moment of doubt? This trial was only moved from Oscoda Co. to Arenac.....that's not far at all. Many, many people have had run-ins w/ the Duvall family. I don't think they could get a fair trial in this county either. I'm NOT sticking up for these guys (as it may sound) by any means. If they are guilty than justice was served. I just don't know if they should have been convicted and sentenced to life, on basically, heresay. Why wouldn't ONE of these witnesses step up and tell the police years ago, when there could have been evidence? I don't believe every single witness could have truly been in fear for their life, for that many years. Just my .02.

Walligator

Dave Simmons
10-30-2003, 06:38 PM
Don't have knowledge of the trial, so I won't comment on it. But subocto if I were you I'd keep an eye on that "cousin". Damn!:eek:

Beave
10-30-2003, 07:54 PM
Remember, the judicial standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt", not "beyond the most far-fetched and outrageous story someone can make up."

One of the problems I think we're seeing in these highly publicized trials is that juries are afraid to convict when the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt" has been satisfied.

With all the witnesses and the bragging these guys did, most of these jurors were probably 99% sure they did it. To me, that's beyond a reasonable doubt. The OJ trial did a lot to hurt the legal system in this nation. People now think that if the defense can make up even the most remotely possibly story that the prosecution can't disprove, then someone needs to be found not guilty. That's not the case. Men go to jail for rape all the time on no physical evidence of rape and the testimony of one witness, the victim. Right or wrong, that's how it works.

slayer
10-30-2003, 11:05 PM
I believe they never would have gotten caught but when you get drunk and start braggin about it how they run them through a comercial wood chipper and fed the pieces to there hogs people tend to listen to that and thats how the scum bags got busted just hope the two hunters can now rest in peace.p.s. hope them guys have fun with big bubba in prison... lol :eek:

Lunker
10-30-2003, 11:31 PM
"Can you hear me now?":D

SteveS
10-31-2003, 12:55 PM
The only thing I know about this trial is what has been in the papers. Those of you that keep commenting about the lack of evidence and the burden of proof...do you have some additional information? Were you at the trial? I am not so naive to believe that courts an juries don't make mistakes, but I am not going to assume that just because this happened a long time ago and that there are no bodies, the conviction wasn't fair. The jury must have received some pretty compelling circumstantial evidence that these men are murderers. Cirsumstantial evidence is still evidence.

Melon
10-31-2003, 05:36 PM
SteveS, you are correct in saying that cirsumstantial evidence is still evidence. But not many cases are won without a smoking gun or a body. I do believe these lowlifes did do the crime. We dont know everything that happened in the court room. I only know about the case what the newspapers tell us. Its just not very common for murder convictions based strictly on circustantial evidence.

William H Bonney
05-28-2009, 09:51 AM
HOLY CRAP!!

They just aired this story on A&E Cold Case Files...:SHOCKED:

I can't believe I never heard this story..:dizzy: Of course,, as I'm watching it, I google it up and right on cue........ this thread pops up as #1 on Google...:lol:

Frozenfish
05-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Read the book, it's a decent read:

http://astore.amazon.com/known-20/detail/0312936761

fishnpbr
05-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Read the book "Darker Than Night" by Tom Henderson. Good read on the events of this tragedy.

Rustyaxecamp
05-28-2009, 10:00 AM
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206485&highlight=darker+night

pescadero
05-28-2009, 10:32 AM
I live in Arenac Co., so I've heard about this case for years. There is no doubt the Duvall's are not your upstanding citizens of the community. They've been arrested for many things before. In my opinion, I don't see how they were convicted either. Without ANY evidence whatsoever, only what many witnesses said happened.

You do realize that witness statements ARE evidence, correct?

--
lp

Rustyaxecamp
05-28-2009, 10:36 AM
You do realize that witness statements ARE evidence, correct?

--
lp

The user you quoted hasn't posted since 2006.;)

Spartan88
05-28-2009, 10:39 AM
The user you quoted hasn't posted since 2006.;)

You didnt feed him to pigs did you?

BeWild
05-28-2009, 10:57 AM
Bizare stuff. Sounds like they probably got the right people. Unfortunatly, I stress probably. I thought to be convicted it had to be beyond a resonable doubt. I find it hard to beleive a jury would only take 2 hours, on no evididence, to put someone a way for life. And I hope to God that no one ever say's I did something and I convicted because of the words of others. I'm not so sure the court system worked properly there.
Last comment, how will the defense attorney appeal if he already stated that it was fair trial? I thought that once there is a judgement, the only things you can appeal is not the decision but procedures of the court.:confused:

You are correct. If the defense attorney can come up with something in how the court mishandled the original criminal trial procedures and the Duvall brothers were treated unfairly by legal standard, then the defense attorney has grounds for an appeal. If granted an appeal, the defense attorney may not introduce any new evidence or testimony, but the defense and prosecution will battle it out on whether or not the Duvall brothers were in fact treated unfairly in the original criminal trial. I am by no means an attorney, just basing this on the few legal classes I have taken in college. Someone feel free to correct me if necessary.

Huntinggirl
05-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Read the book, it's a decent read:

http://astore.amazon.com/known-20/detail/0312936761


it is a great read..Just don't read it while you are sitting on stand (BIG MISTAKE)...Kinda freaky when you know the areas and the places that the Duvall's lived and hung out....

Blueump
05-28-2009, 11:13 AM
Read the book "Darker Than Night" by Tom Henderson. Good read on the events of this tragedy.

I read it two years ago while deer hunting! :yikes: BIG mistake. It was a great read, but I can tell you I've never looked at people the same again. I don't trust any strangers, and a lot of those places metioned in the book hit WAY too close to home!

Bucktail Butch
05-28-2009, 02:14 PM
A&E is showing it again at 3:00PM today (05-28-09).

portagelaker
05-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Every time I hear about this story all I can picture is Deliverence....Boy....you got a purdy mouth :SHOCKED::help:.

Don't mess with those country boys...they'll feed yer ass to the pigs :lol:.

mike the pike
05-28-2009, 04:47 PM
My wife is reading the book right now. They wont be so tough when they are locked up with bubba.

Greenbush future
05-28-2009, 05:18 PM
My Aunt built and ran the Greenbush Tavern and I tell you we were there all the time growing up. I have seen enough of the rougher folks in northern Michigan to no better than to provoke any of them. Add some booze or a female to the mix and some will go off the deep end. I think justice was served quite well, I dont think they were convicted wrongly in any way. Jury's kind of make it as close to "sure" as you will ever get.

Fishndude
05-29-2009, 08:33 AM
My folks have a cabin in that area, and I heard the story of these guys killing those hunters for many years before they were brought to trial. It was well known to locals that they committed this crime, and NOBODY wanted to cross that family. Absolutely Deliverance, northern MI style.

imjon
05-29-2009, 09:32 PM
After seeing this thread I picked the book up from the library. Boudro witnessed the killings from the woods. Snuck out the back window of her house with her friend and saw them hit one of the guys with the bat. Her testimony was pretty compelling. Her friend was later killed by a truck.
I especially liked how she said she saw the reward climb from a thousand dollars to $100,000 and never gave a thought to coming forward because she didn't believe she'd ever live to spend any of it.
Just getting past her part in the trial, defense attorney's made her look good with their questions, which isn't what they are supposed to do.

Gina Fox
05-29-2009, 09:45 PM
These two are scum...whatever they end up with is way better than they deserve. Shooting someone is one thing, it takes a whole differnt kind of animal to smash somebodies head with a baseball bat and kick another guy to death. Sad to think about that 84 yr. old mother having to hear all the grisly details of her sons murder. Even harder to think that this happens hundreds of times each day.

We put way too many of these POS in prison. Line them all up once a year, I got a lot of guns to sight in annually!

This may sound barbaric but they should suffer the same punishment their victims did. Beat them to death and feed them to pigs.
This reminds me of 'Deliverance" and bothers me that they are in the neighborhood. Glad they are finally going to be put away.
wonder what the 'other' brothers will do to the witnesses now?

I'd opt for witness protection program

StumpJumper
05-29-2009, 10:11 PM
My Aunt built and ran the Greenbush Tavern and I tell you we were there all the time growing up. I have seen enough of the rougher folks in northern Michigan to no better than to provoke any of them. Add some booze or a female to the mix and some will go off the deep end. I think justice was served quite well, I dont think they were convicted wrongly in any way. Jury's kind of make it as close to "sure" as you will ever get.

lol you must've met a few of my family up there. :lol: My dad and uncles cleaned out the tavern more than a few times.. wayy back in the day though.

Boardman Brookies
05-29-2009, 11:32 PM
it is a great read..Just don't read it while you are sitting on stand (BIG MISTAKE)...Kinda freaky when you know the areas and the places that the Duvall's lived and hung out....

Right on. My family and I have a place in South Branch/Curtisville. I have been going up there all my life. I wish I would have watched the show on A&E. Does anyone have it on DVD? I would pay to watch it.

I am pretty sure I encountered these crazies once in Timbers about 10 years when I was a young buck. My cousin Shawn(RIP) my dad and myself went into Timbers mid week during deer camp. The place was empty but some rough looking dudes. My cousin ordered 3 beers, I was only 17 or 18, and we sat down. A lady with the group came and started to talk to my dad and cousin. Soon after my dad and cousin decided it was time for all of us to leave.

This year at deer camp my dad and I talk about that night. My cousin Shawn was living up there at the time and said these guys are rumored to have killed some guys and are some real bastards so they decided it was best we left. My dad is NOT one to BS. Kind of creepy but 100% true story. Was it the Duvalls? I am not sure but it sure could be. Coco's place was about2 miles from ours.....

imjon
05-30-2009, 09:20 AM
Right on. My family and I have a place in South Branch/Curtisville. I have been going up there all my life. I wish I would have watched the show on A&E. Does anyone have it on DVD? I would pay to watch it.

I am pretty sure I encountered these crazies once in Timbers about 10 years when I was a young buck. My cousin Shawn(RIP) my dad and myself went into Timbers mid week during deer camp. The place was empty but some rough looking dudes. My cousin ordered 3 beers, I was only 17 or 18, and we sat down. A lady with the group came and started to talk to my dad and cousin. Soon after my dad and cousin decided it was time for all of us to leave.

This year at deer camp my dad and I talk about that night. My cousin Shawn was living up there at the time and said these guys are rumored to have killed some guys and are some real bastards so they decided it was best we left. My dad is NOT one to BS. Kind of creepy but 100% true story. Was it the Duvalls? I am not sure but it sure could be. Coco's place was about2 miles from ours.....
Google A&E and then use the site search for The Missing Hunters. It was on Friday and I'm sure it'll be run again.

Ausable Junkie
05-30-2009, 09:30 AM
I do believe the star witness is now dead. I was told she died
in a restaurant after eating some food. Hmmm, imagine that. I've never
seen the story (hers) in the news, just word of mouth. Kinda like the original "Fed 'em to the pigs"
story that's been circulating up here for a long time and people said, "Naah. Just an urban legend."

One of the perp's lived on the same short dirt road as me by The Bear Store. Yikes!

imjon
05-30-2009, 07:32 PM
Found this on google. Her last name in the book was Klimmek

Barbara J. Boudro
December 30, 2007
Barbara Jean Boudro

Barbara Jean Boudro, age 61, of Luzerne passed away Sunday, December 30th, 2007 at Mercy Hospital, Grayling.
In accordance with her wishes, cremation has taken place. A memorial service will be held at a later date.
Barbara was born on October 13, 1946 and graduated from Kirtland Community College. She was a homemaker most of her life, enjoying knitting, canning and crafts. She had been named "homemaker of the year" by the Oscoda County County Fair, for 3 years in a row. Barbara had been active in The Emma Lowery United Church of Christ, where she played both organ and piano. Her heartfelt love for animals was evident in the compassion she showed to her many pets, including, dogs, cats and birds.
Surviving are her daughter: Amy Maroney of Mio; 3 grandchildren: Ashleigh, Cassondra and BrookeAnn Maroney; brother: David (Cathy) Klimmek of Mio and her stepmother Janie Klimmek of Mio.
She was preceded in death by her father Frederick Klimmek.
Memorials may be made to: Oscoda County Animal Control, C/O 405 Balsam St., Mio, MI 48647. (Please make checks payable to Oscoda County. Please note on Memo Line "Animal Control for Barbara Boudro")

Arrangements by Lashley Funeral Home, Mio.

wyldkat49766
05-30-2009, 09:55 PM
Google A&E and then use the site search for The Missing Hunters. It was on Friday and I'm sure it'll be run again.

It didnt show any other airings of it besides the May 29th ones but I will keep checking for it now.

252Life
05-31-2009, 07:14 AM
I read it two years ago...while at deer camp...alone...within 15 miles of where this went down...I frequent all the places mentioned in the book, know the area well and have hunted up there for years. yes....BAD idea....By the time my buddies got up to camp to join me I was a mess...."Want to go to the knothole?"...unhhhh NO!:tdo12: