How do you convince............

[DAVER]

O.K. guys I'm looking for some help & suggestions!! I would like to get the neighbors to agree to a "SIZE LIMIT" on bucks, say, 6 point or better in order to be shot. Half the neighbors agree, the others are so bull headed that they won't even get together for a cup of coffee to discuss the issue. 1998 rifle season, I watched the most beautiful little spike buck. Dark chocolate coat,four white socks, white throat patch. One antler was 4-5 inches long, the other just over 3. I watched this deer for 45 minutes within 80 yds of my blind, eventually he wondered off and onto the neighbors property.... About five minutes later I heard a shot from just over the hill, sure enough they shot him, all 85 lbs of him. Made me sick!! These same "SO CALLED HUNTERS" the year before harvested 15 bucks between three guys. How would you go about trying to convince these people that unless some of these smaller bucks are allowed to grow how can you have any wall hangers. I let four bucks walk this rifle season, all of them smaller than a four point, Personally I want one to hang on my wall. Maybe thats being selfish I don't know. And it's not like I'm the Buckmaster, I have harvested only two bucks in my life. Thankls for any help that you may have. DAVE

[Bow_Hunter]

Well there are three issues here that I see:

1st - Why would the state allow three men to take 15 bucks? How are the able to lawfully do this.

2nd - If they will not even have a cup of coffee to discuss this issue, it is obvious that in order to protect the herd in your area you may have to talk to the DNR in your area and have the existing laws and limits enforced on your neighbors (unless they really are not breaking any laws).

3rd - Hunting for one to mount on the wall is not all there is to hunting. Think back about the hunts you have had and all the deer you have seen. That in it self is a reward. Granted, some people like to have a deer head on the wall with large antlers. Bit that is just one aspect of the hunt.

[Barney]

Daver, I have had the same problem that you have with the neighbors. I also have 1,000 of acres of stateland near my property. About the only thing you can do is stick with your guns. If only one or two bucks make it until the next hunting season you have increased your chances of seeing a better quality of buck. Try to keep a record of the does and bucks killed in your area. Keep track of the number and size of the bucks on your property. You should see an inprovement even when your neighbors shoot the little ones. It only takes one buck to make it a few years to get a quality buck.

When you shoot that trophy let everybody know how you did it. By letting the little ones go.

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Barney

[Steve]

Yeah, that's gotta be really tough when you are surrounded by state or federal land. You have no way of getting all of those people to cooperate.

[DAVER]

Bow Hunter, You are right, I cherish every moment spent in the woods or on the water. I have some very special and incredible memories. The one for the wall is only a goal that I've set for myself, something to work for. The scouting,the hunt, the second hunt(tracking), and giving thanks for the harvest are intregal parts of hunting. I try to impress these ethics on every student that comes through our Hunter Safety classes.
I rather enjoy the looks I get when I tell folks that I passed on a buck. Some folks just can't understand why I would pass on the opportunity to harvest ANY buck. As for contacting the local CO's, I have and their aware of the situation. Maybe in time the offenders will be caught and charged appropiately. In the mean time I do what I can to gather evidence to catch them. Thanks for your thoughts. DAVE

[Bow_Hunter]

DAVER, Thanks fot the point you made. Did you hear this everyone???

Daver contacted the DNR about the illegal activities his neighbors are involved in and they have not done anything. So please tell me how passing any new laws will help.......

Please tell me.......

Cooperation and ethical hunting is the answer. The State and the DNR are not going to enforce the laws that we already have. You can't take the law into your own hands so you have to just do your best.

[DAVER]

Bow Hunter, The local C.O.'s are aware of whats happening, it's just a matter of actually catching them. The camp I spoke of around the corner has been mass killing deer for at least the six years that we have lived here. The C.O.'s were close to getting them when the doe a day system went into effect. I think your right "ETHICAL" hunting is the answer. However, how do you change someone's ethics? It has to come from within!! I feel the art of hunting is being lost, alot of so called deer hunters have no idea how to scout,set up, or even (and this is very sad to me) how to track a wounded animal. Most of todays hunters know only how to carry out bags of bait,sit in their little or huge shacks,load their rifle or bow and shoot. There is a small archery shop down the road that has a 3-d coarse etc.. I don't know how many folks I have heard down there a week or even days prior to opener, getting their bows out for the first time that year! Is this an ethical way to approach archery season. Not to me, but how do you convince these people that practice is a vital part of bow hunting. Knowing what your effictive range is and how to judge that distance, if you have'nt practiced? Or the folks like the young man I spoke to on opening day of rifle this past season. I had heard him shoot at least 15 shots, when I found them dragging a 80lb doe, with the lower jaw missing, one front leg missing,gut shot at least twice, shot through the hind quarters at least once, across the property I was hunting on, I asked what all the shooting was about? "Shootin at does" he say's, I asked how many he had harvested? His response? None, none of them fell down so I must have missed them!! He never even checked to see if he had wounded one. Is this an ethical practice? Not to me!! I don't know what can be done to change a persons ethics. But it's a good topic to discuss. DAVER

[stevebrandle]

Daver,

The DNR has been trying to answer your original question for a few years now. The experimental deer areas on Drummond Island and near Clare have a "no spike" resriction. The "four points on one side" rule for a second buck is an attempt to limit the number of young bucks taken also. The biggest obstacle they face (as you already know) is convincing hunters to throttle back on the bucks and letting them get a couple of years growth on them.

Other than the two examples above, they can't take it much further without the help from private property owners. Now if I owned a piece of property I would never give up the opption of shooting any legal deer I could. This dosen't mean I would, but I want to make this choice. It should be my right since I pay the taxes and own the piece of land.

On the other hand, the public hunting land should always be ruled by the majority of Michigan residents. Right now these hunters are telling the DNR that they want to be able to shoot a young buck for the freezer if they choose. Nothing wrong with that either. When I first started deer hunting I wanted to get a deer every year. It didn't matter if it was a doe or buck. Eventually, I didn't care to shoot does anymore and after harvesting a lot of deer over the years, I go deer hunting just for the hunt. Many people progress like this and some settle into a level in the middle and stay there. The point is, it's OK either way and the opportunity to legally hunt as one sees fit should never be lost.

I still feel that a trophy region could be set up on a portion of state land for hunters looking to get a mature buck. But, until enough hunters ask for this and are willing to maybe hunt with some restrictions, the DNR won't spend the money and time setting it up and enforcing the rules for just a few. They have to compromise on things to satisfy the majority of hunters in the state and that's the fair way to do it. It's up to us to petition the NRC and the DNR to make changes and prove that many are for QDM. Insteasd of complaining about steps in this direction let's encourage them to do more.

Steve Brandle

[boehr]

I'm very confident that the CO's are trying to catch the guys that took 15 bucks between the three of them. The CO's if the county you live in is lucky only have two CO's to cover the entire county. They can't do anything about stories and rumors. They also can't sit there all the time as they have others they are trying to catch also. To do anything the CO's must catch them or at the very least have a witness that actually sees a violation and is willing to testify in court.



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