Sue Tabor needs help!!

[Linda G.]

Please copy and paste this message and forward it to anyone on your email list, or to any other message boards out there-show them we care about dove hunting!!

Dear Dove Hunt Supporter:

Just as we had expected, some of the media has already begun to express
their opposition to establishing a dove hunting season in Michigan. As
many of you may already know, the Lansing State Journal published an
opinion yesterday criticizing the dove bill and at the same time, not
getting their facts straight on my past efforts to legalize dove
hunting.

Now, I need your active participation in voicing your support to the
State Journal for a dove season. The LSJ is asking people to let them
know if they support a dove season by calling (517) 485-5463 and press
8978 to leave a voice mail (be sure to leave a phone number where they
can reach you). You can also fax your response to (517) 377-1298 or
email it them at capquestion@lansing.gannett.com.

THE DEADLINE FOR RESPONSES IS Thursday AT NOON, so please don't delay
and remember to include your telephone number if leaving a voice mail.

I have also included some facts regarding doves in case you want to
include any of this information in your response.

Again, thank you for your support of a dove hunting season. We will get
this signed into law with the help of our sportsmen and women all over
the state!

DOVE FACTS:

Statistics

* The hunting of mourning doves is strictly regulated, and these
regulations are established by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. There
is a limit to the number of mourning doves a hunter may take per day.

* Mourning dove hunting occurs in 38 states, and only about 15% of the
mourning doves that die each year are killed by hunters. Doves are also
good to eat, comparable in size to bluegill or perch.

* Mourning doves are not endangered. In fact, there are approximately
500 million doves in the United States. Each pair of adult doves
produces six to eight young per year; therefore, the total dove
population fluctuates little from year to year, whether they are hunted
in a particular state or not.

* The normal life expectancy of a mourning dove is approximately one
year. Most mourning doves that migrate south for the winter never live
to return the next spring because they die of natural causes.

* License fees paid by dove hunters are used for the conservation and
protection of the environment in which all wildlife in the state lives.


Mourning Dove Facts To Consider

* Mourning doves are an annually renewable natural source.

* Mourning doves are the most popular game bird in North America.

* The natural mortality rate of doves is about 55 to 60 percent each
year, whether hunted or not. For juvenile birds, natural mortality may
be as high as 75 percent.

* Mourning dove seasons are backed by sound biological data.
Professional wildlife biologists throughout the country collect this
data and continually do research on mourning doves as well as many other
wildlife species.

* Research has shown that there is little movement between rural and
urban mourning dove populations. Hunting has little impact on the number
of birds in urban and suburban areas where people enjoy watching them at
bird feeders.

* Doves are "monogamous" meaning they will maintain a pair bond
throughout a season, and sometimes in successive seasons, although
usually they do not. Most doves are unpaired at the beginning of the
nesting season (multiple studies confirm this.) This is a function of
their reproductive strategy as a species consistent with other doves and
pigeons, and should not be assigned human moral values.

* It is important to note that doves do not usually "mate for life" as
some animal rights literature suggests, and when they do mate for life
it is likely a result of the fact that they naturally have very short
lives. Banding studies indicate average life spans of 1 to 1.5 years.

* Overpopulation, or the threat of overpopulation, is not a requirement
for establishing hunting seasons. We hunt many species without
population reductions as a goal. Harvesting only male pheasants is a
good example- it has negligible affect on population recruitment
(breeding success) so hunting has no population reduction goal. We
harvest the sustainable surplus of pheasants. Regulated dove hunting
would target harvesting the sustainable surplus as well.

[Zeboy]

It only takes 2 minutes and is quite painless. We need to stand United on this one!!!!

[Gr8 Scout]

I'm way too new here to start trouble, but I am a long time Michigan resident and hunter, and Sue Tabor is my elected representative (she gets my vote, too). And I am usually a pretty much 'in your face' type supporter of hunting. But...

Is there a more divisive issue we hunters could bring up at this time? We've won some great fights here in Michigan to preserve our hunting (and firearm ownership rights), and I have been in the trenches for most of them. But do we need to engage in every single battle that comes along? The general non-hunting population here in Michigan has proven they just do not support a dove season.

I lived for many years in the Florida, where there is a TRADITION of dove hunting. I capitalized that on purpose. It's like our firearm deer season. Many landowners will throw open their dove fields on opening day, inviting friends and friends of friends and in some cases, complete strangers. There is the tradtional morning meal, served out of doors, some of the hosts trying hard to out do one another. The trip in the tractor pulled wagon out to the fields. The great shooting (there is a real huntable population of doves there) and the fine time afterwards.

We do not have that tradition here in Michigan, nor the great huntable population of birds. What we have is a population of non-hunters who don't and never will understand why anyone wants to hunt those lovely little doves. It's my opinion that we take a hit every time this dove hunting issue comes up.

I do know Rep Tabor owes a great debt to the NRA and various hunting groups for their support, and politicians being what and who they are, she has to pay her political debts off at some point. But I question whether we hunters here in Michigan are really served by this effort.

It's great to fight a battle and win. And there are fights ahead we do have to win to preserve our sport (and the right to bear arms-- these two are mightily intertwined). I think we spend way too much of our own politcal capital fighting this one, however.

Scout

[Big Frank 25]

Something to look forward to. A NEW TRADITION!

Take a look at this animated map from the Christmas bird counts 1950-1998. Send this to the fence sitters! http://www.junglewalk.com/popup.asp?type=s&AnimalwebsiteID=3149

[Zeboy]

Great Find Big Frank!! Thats Great! The Audobon Society of Michigan is one of the organizations fighting this thing the hardest. They are the ones behind the anti site www.savethedoves.org One of their big rallying cries is that doves have been protected in Michigan since something like 1905 and to preserve the heritage of dove protection. The link you provided, from the national Audobon Society, is all about how dove numbers have expanded the past 40 years.

It's really only the last 25 years we have even had "huntable" numbers of doves.

[Linda G.]

Scout-you probably weren't in Michigan during the 1996 battle against Proposal D, which was the most divisive issue among sportsmen and the general population of Michigan EVER...we won that one, we can win this one, too.

What we need to do is educate the sportsman of this state who won't support dove hunting because they don't believe they would ever want to participate. That's because they've never tried it.

Dove seasons are about to open in all of those 39 states, folks, and I challenge those of you who hunt doves in these states, myself included, to take at least one or two of these Michigan hunters who have never realized what sport dove hunting is, not to mention what it does for rural economies in other states, and what it does to prevent crop damage to crops like soy beans and corn, along with you and EDUCATE them...for those who can't go along with you for one of the finest days of hunting they'll ever enjoy, remind them that not very many of us bear hunt, either, but the state of Michigan united to fight that threat in 1996, and we can do it again...

Sue Tabor is term-limited, folks, and right now, we don't see another legislator with the type of guts she's got on the horizon to support us with this and many other sporting efforts in the future at all...so if we don't do this now, we probably never will...

BTW-Wisconsin doesn't have a tradition of dove hunting, either, but in just 8 days 35,000 Wisconsin sportsmen and women will be stepping out to enjoy their first dove hunt ever...

Take a Michigan hunter dove hunting!!! :D

[Zeboy]

Let's look at Michigan Turkey hunting as an example. We now have a great Turkey Hunting tradition!

20 years ago very very few people even had the opportunity to hunt Turkeys in Michigan. The Southern half of lower Michigan had virtually no birds 20 years ago.

Fortunately birds were brought in from places like Iowa and Pennsylvania and they exploded in Southern Michigan. What if we were never given the opportunity to hunt those Turkeys . . . Sportsman and women would never have realized what an exciting opportunity they were missing. Turkey hunting didn't get popoular until people experienced it first hand.

My point is - when the sportsmen and women finally realize what they have been missing by not having a dove season . . . boy, are they gonna be pissed it took this long!!!

This is one we HAVE to step up and fight hard for. . . and we are doing for those that today don't even understand what this is all about.

[Gr8 Scout]

Linda G: TurkeyLady from AllOutdoors.com, right? Glad you landed on your feet here. You did a fine job there and I can see you're doing the same at this site.
I've been back in Michigan since 1985, so I remember well Prop G and D. And I was on the side of the angels in that fight.

Reading the comments in these forums, and Eric Sharp's column in the FreePress today, I see much of this attempt at a dove season seems to involve talking other hunters into backing it. Well, I don't hunt bear by chasing them with dogs, but I still supported that issue, and I will go along with this one. I'll do my part, standing with my fellow hunters, although I still have grave doubts both about the wisdom of it and the popularity of dove hunting once it's a done deal. And I have to disagree with you, Linda G about Sue Tabor having "enough guts" to open this can of worms up again; she's paying off a debt, and a lame duck in any event.

Tradition... I brought that up and a few people made some good points about it. When I think tradition, I think 50 to 80 years.. like the tradition of deer camp here in this state. Or, perhaps the traditon of Pike shooting in Vermont. Yep, it's true. Every spring there are people gunning for pike. That is shooting at pike with rifles. Let's pass on that one, huh?

My pleasure to be here. Hope to get to know all of you.

[flyer]

the only people who do anything to help wildlife are the hunters all other groups are free loaders who want to get a free ride to enjoy wildlife while hunters pay for it. who started ducks unlimited, wild turkey federation, grouse society who puts up wood duck nest boxes who pays for the federal reserve system all the other groups want to protect the individual animal while hunters want to protect the resource and the enviroment that supports the animals. well as a farmer that feeds 100 doves every day i say i want to hunt on my land in my fields for the doves that i raised. i guarantee you the only people who will be putting up nesting platforms for the doves in years to come will be the hunters that will form a group like the wild turkey federation. how many duck hunters actualy are responsible for helping there be more ducks then they shoot by the nest boxes they put up or money they give to ducks unlimited. I believe if you want to help increase the dove population get us sportsman involved we do something as history has proven (nest boxes, the federal reserve system, ducks unlimited and the like) the only presidents that did anything for the enviroment have been hunters. these yapping groups are like a dog that barks all night but can't hunt they are great in court but don't do squat in the real world.

[Linda G.]

but they got it through, and it took a helluva lot to do so, if I may say so...THREE YEARS of court battles AFTER it was passed and made into a law...but they did it, and they fully expect 30-40,000 people to be out there on opening day. That's pretty popular for a season most have never even tried before.

Tell us about your grave doubts about the wisdom of it, GR8...exactly what doubts do you have, having already experienced dove hunting in another state? I don't have any, and see this as only another way to get more people involved in the sport of hunting...dove hunting is something that will be accessible to anyone who can find a public field full of foxtail. Michigan has lots of those. I can see this being a HUGE hit with women and kids who don't have any or much hunting experience.

I was Turkey Lady way back when on Hunt Info, my own name on Alloutdoors before I became an editor and admin of their message board over there. I post here, but I don't have anything to do with the site. That's all thanks to Steve, and he's done a great job of it. I'm running three other message boards now for Outdoor News, for the states of Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan.

Please tell us how Sue Tabor is "paying off a debt"...I don't think that's the case at all, but would love to hear what you have to tell us.

:eek:

[SARDog]

To me ate scout. you have your head in the sand and it's typical and the rest of Michigan is willing to move on, but you need to go through a crisis and then you will see what really happens. You talk the talk, but you are not walking, but ready to nap.

[Gr8 Scout]

Pleased to meetcha, guy. Head in the sand? Naw. I'm politically savvy and and I've been involved in much bigger and more important hunting and firearm issues than this one.

As I pointed out in my last post, it seems much effort is being expended to get other Michigann hunters/sportsmen involved in this. I note the initial response in the Whitetail hunting forum here when a message asking for dove-hunting support was posted. It was not really welcome, was it?

I stand by my opinion that this is not a great idea. My doubt is that it is a public relations nightmare. I do understand all the benefits and arguments for such a season. I am pointing out the big, big negative, that non-hunters do not look at this as we do. They see us as killing the symbol of peace, or whatever other nonsense. I also stand by you in support, if this season is important to you. We hunters do stand together or fall one and at time. What more do you want of me?

All hunters are not going to agree on all issues. Take deer baiting for instance. Forums like this one, out of the eye of the non-hunting public, are great places to discuss these kinda issues and deal with them. And we should be able to do so without alienating or insulting one another.

Scout

[flyer]

gr8scout there is some truth in picking your fights so that you only win (which is in a way what you are saying) but it is also true that hunting is so right that we should be able to win every argument if we lose it is because of the way we presented our arguments and who did our talking for us. often you have to do the exact opposite of what you would think in order to get your objective. first it seems absurd that hunting would increase the number of a certain animal but it does because the people that hunt will not only kill some individual animals but they put money into mantaining the animal into improving the habitat and funding research into the animals needs. I am originaly from south dakota and prairie dogs are vermin every rancher fights to rid his pastures of these pests. animals rights groups say how these animals need to be protected from all persecution in order to save them. this will never work because the rancher must feed his family this year the grass has to go to the cows. But if a rancher could make more money from hunters then he did from cows then the west would be full of praire dogs. which is the opposite of what you would think. hunters put an economic value on an animal and this makes people willing to raise that animal. the jest of what i am saying is that if not for hunters moneys, contributions to habitat improvement and ideas that have become the norm from our past generations of hunters there would be much fewer animals or fish. WE ARE THE ONLY GROUP THE ANIMALS CAN COUNT ON TO HELP if the animal right groups get their way heaven help the enviroment because there will be no economic value to having animals. we must have good representatives talk for us because we are the ones in the right and if presented properly ( even though on the surface we seem to be animals enemies)we should win every argument because our arguments are the only ones that hold water and we should be able to convince people to see it our way.

[Lil' Tanker]

sure is a lot of details. just tell me what I need to do to start blasting those fast flying birdies.

[Neal]

Dear Outdoor Enthusiast:

I wanted to let you know about a new web site that has been designed to aid our efforts to establish a dove hunting season in Michigan. The site includes facts about doves, recipes and related links. The address is www.midovehunt.com.


Sincerely,


State Rep. Susan Tabor

[Big Frank 25]

http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1134

[Neal]

What a great way to gain support for this bill, I hope some who attended were fence- sitters, or dove hunting skeptics, and not just a bunch of congress people who already hunt.

Way to go Sue!!!!

Neal

[Big Frank 25]

;)

[Steve]

Thank you Linda for the fine editoral on Dove hunting. Check it out on our front page.

[Nichol Dance]

Linda,

I am by no means an anti-hunter. I have hunted ducks, and grouse (not very successfully) and appreciate a good hunter with solid skills and a conservation ethic. I am not an elderly female bird watcher, nor am I a PETA member. I am also not anti-gun, and occasionally go out and shoot skeet and the occasional Elvis LP tossed into the air. I am an avid flyfisherman, riparian owner and a devoted opponent of bridges, dams, malls and condominiums. However, I do not support your efforts in any way to establish a dove hunting season in Michigan. The doves I've seen, and I see them all the time, are fairly docile...ground-hugging birds, and seem to be of little sporting value. The argument that they offer about the same meat quantity as bluegills is certainly not a reson to hop on the dove hunting bandwagon, wouldn't you say? I'd rather see you make it legal to hunt bluegills with .22 pistols, if that's the case. What's next..Robins...chimpmunks...how about bats...they have some meat on them. Plus, they way they fly they'd be great sport....I doubt very much whether the legislative lightweights we have in the Republican bastion that is greater Grand Traverse County will be opposing this bill, but I'll give them a call tomorrow. Thanks for the heads-up.

regards,

ND

[Linda G.]

ND-heads up? About what?

"The doves I've seen, and I see them all the time, are fairly docile...ground-hugging birds, and seem to be of little sporting value."

You have obviously never hunted doves...of course they act like that at a feeder in the city, so will ANY bird-and there are a number of other wild game birds, as we know, that will hang out at feeders....wild turkeys, ruffed grouse, ducks, and in other states, quail, just to name a few. I'm sure these birds appear docile and ground hugging at these times as well. But they are certainly wild, and act like it IN THE WILD.

Doves are the LEAST ground hugging bird there is...their average flight speed is 40 mph, and have been clocked at 70 mph, and they are rated as one of the fastest flying bird species there is. They are by FAR the fastest flying game bird species.

As for Grand Traverse County being a "Republican bastion", that may be so, but the majority of people in Grand Traverse County live in Traverse City, known far and wide as the most liberal area in the north...and full of uninformed people.

As for the meat on them not being worth the effort, the meat on a dove is equivalent to the amount on a quail, or a shrimp-you don't just eat one...

Please do more research about doves before basing your decision on what you see in the city, at a bird feeder, which is an artificial situation-not real life, by any means. Should you care to observe a real dove hunt, I would be happy to line you up with a number of people in Ohio or Indiana, just let me know.

Base your decision on that, not what you see outside your kitchen window...

[Nichol Dance]

Linda,

You certainly have some great citations. BUT..my observatins are based on tramping around in the woods, fishing mostly. I'm not a city boy, by any definition. As for Traverse City/GT county being liberal...better check your facts...we keep sending people like Jason Allen and Michelle McManus back to Lansing.....hardly liberals.

regards,


ND

[Linda G.]

as for Traverse City being liberal, that's a fact...perhaps the liberals of Traverse City don't vote. Or perhaps people see a familiar name on the ballot, and vote for that familiar name. Who knows how some of the inhabitants of TC think.

No doubt you do spend time in the woods-but doves spend most of their time in open fields. They choose forests only to roost in the evening, another time that ALL birds appear docile...shooting hours and ethics prevent any moral hunter from taking advantage of that fact, just as the wild turkey, ruffed grouse, and a number of other game birds are protected when roosted.

You aren't mistaking some other type of bird for a dove, are you?

I have never seen mourning doves spend any amount of time in the forest.

[Linda G.]

has been emptied, Trout...sorry...:eek:

[Zeboy]

I understand your position and why someone from Northern Michigan would feel that way.

Remember though, Michigan is a very large state with differing habitat. Please come to the Southern third of Michigan and visit a cut grain field before you make up your mind. Doves on the wing are a VERY challenging target. On average, as tough or tougher than hitting Grouse (pass shooting vs. flushing though).

If we get a season in Michigan, I am certain most dove hunting will take place in the Southern third. Simply put - that is where the habitat and hunting opportunities for doves are. Do NOT penalize all the Sportsman of Michigan because GT county would not be a good spot for pass shooting doves.

Think of it like Grouse, woodcock, or bear hunting in reverse. Your stance is like the hunters of Southern Michigan not supporting hunting seasons on game animals that don't thrive in our part of the state.

[Nichol Dance]

Lilnda,

Points well taken...per finding doves in open fields versus woods....I do travel fields to get to streams and rivers, so I do see doves in those settingsa as well as along the lakeshore settings where I live.


The problem with part of your argument is the same notion thrown up in all these arguments...liberals...you seem quick to stereotype them as uninformed, yet don't like it, I'm sure when people who think similarly to you are stereotpyed into killers, which of course, you are not. I certainly do not question your skills, nor do I denigrate your hunting desires, except for the desire to hunt doves.

There are plenty of birds, and other animals to hunt in Michigan already.

regards,

ND

[Linda G.]

My remark about liberals came after what I perceived as your shot at GT County as a "Republican bastion"...a lot of people just don't believe that is true.

Unfortunately, most liberals I've ever met ARE uninformed. There are some very notable exceptions, but they are exceptions.

Should someone choose to label me as a killer, I would not deny that-it's true. I kill animals and fish. Everyone is a killer, unless they have never swatted a fly or stepped on an ant. No one is pure.

This issue, ND, is NOT about hunting doves-it is a wonderful family sport enjoyed by millions in 39 other states and most foreign countries.

This issue is about the heritage of the hunting and fishing sports in Michigan-and if we don't stick together, it won't be long, and even your fly rod will be threatened, because you may be causing "pain" to the fish...

My offer to show you a real dove hunt stands. Please consider looking at both sides of the issue before making your decision.

[Nichol Dance]

Linda,

I respect your hunting sensitivities, but a political analyst you're not. Traverse City and Grand Traverse county are notoriously Republican, despite what you believe...look at the voting record in the last several elections. Funny, though, the liberals I traffic with are generally well-informed and spend a good deal of their time and money advocating environmental stands which keep the woods woodsy and the rivers running.

I'm not too worried about my fly rod being taken away...both of us know there are laws to protect our hunting and fishing rights in terms of being bothered afield or on the stream.

I'll kindly pass on the dove hunting expedition. Call it what you will...my complete lack of desire to be educated as you see it. I just don't think you need another bird to shoot. The dove hunting issue is not a domino....if you don't get dove hunting the next step is to take away your rifle kind of thing, but that's a convenient argument to rile the base.


regards,

ND

[Bob S]

Originally posted by trout
The title here was about supporting the Dove bill, if you feel the need to not support it, why not start a thread of that nature and see how many supportive posts you get. I`ll have to remember this post the next time an anti-QDMer jumps into a pro-QDM thread.

[Nichol Dance]

Zebopy,

Thanks for the note and for the clarification regarding the majority of dove habitat. Maybe they could legislate a no-kill zone in NM? I appreciate your measured response.

regards,

Nichol

[Linda G.]

There are just as many doves in the northern lower peninsula of northern MI as there are in southern MI, in fact, most of them breed up here, and we have lots and lots of open fields with prime habitat, it's not all trees up here, you know.

Grand Traverse County has many miles of open pastures and crop fields that are very attractive to doves-that's why ND sees them. If it were all trees, there wouldn't be any doves.

Unless the weather goes downhill really quickly in September, most of our breeding doves are here until early October, and somehow, I don't think a lot of hunters would view a "no-kill" zone in northern MI as fair at all.

[n.pike]

My stomach is growling from this thread.



When can I kill and eat some.:D

[Nichol Dance]

Linda,

Another thank you for alerting me to Sue Tabor. I checked her voting record and in my book it is truly pathetic. We are facing huge budget shortages, collapsing bridges, dams and crumbling roads left to us by John Engler and she has the time to pursue her pet hunting project. Sounds like a breach of her oath of office. Who is fattening her campaign funds?

regards,

Nichol

[Linda G.]

It sounds like you've never heard of Sue Tabor. Maybe you just moved here? Or just started reading the news?

She's term limited, which means, I believe, that she's finishing her third term of office. So someone out there must like her in her home district of Eaton County, right next door to Lansing, the hotbed of Michigan politics.

She's chairman of the House's Conservation and Outdoor Recreation Committee, and has done a WHALE of a job in that capacity, in the opinion of most sportsmen and women in this state.

Two other bills I'm aware of that she's got out there right now-she's also fighting to allow sportsmen and women to hunt on Sundays in counties that have Sunday bans on hunting, and to allow youths younger than the present age of 12 into the field.

She was in the forefront to assist in the battle to kill the federal move to ban the baiting of bears on federal lands.

She is the darling of the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, the sportsmen's defense fund.

This is her third attempt to pass some type of dove bill in Michigan. No one else has attempted to do anything like that in many years, if ever.

When she votes, she votes with the sportsman in mind, if that is "pathetic", well, I guess that's your right, but that's NOT the opinion of the majority of Michigan voters.

Why would who writes the bill have anything to do with the bill itself, anyway? Have you read it? There's NOTHING in that bill that would benefit Sue Tabor, other than the right to hunt doves. It wouldn't have anything to do with her once it became law, so why should it matter now?

Sue Tabor is a woman with a whole lot of guts-she, like most politicians, may not be able to save the world overnight, but she's got courage, and I like to see that in a politician-lord knows that the Capitol building is already FULL of spineless wonders.

Budget increases might be helped a bit by more hunters dollars coming in for a new license...as for collapsing bridges and crumbling roads-I just returned from a dove hunt in Ohio and I drove through road construction ALL THE WAY to the state line.

[Nichol Dance]

Linda,

I'm a Michigan native...raised in a farm town but I've been a Northerner my entire adult life (I'm 54).

She certainly would be the darling of these groups if she panders to their will...not what you're elected to do, exactly. "Darling" might be too gentle a term. Anyway... as heated as this got, I appreciate your ability to answer all kinds of shots...you're obviously a tough, serious-minded individual, with a great deal of passion.

I do read your work in the Record Eagle..keep it up...you're a great alternative to most of what passes for journalism.

regards,


Nichol

[duckman#1]

Originally posted by Nichol Dance
Linda,

She certainly would be the darling of these groups if she panders to their will...not what you're elected to do, exactly.

Nichol

So your saying she isn't suppose to do what the majority of her voters want? She is suppose to go against the will of her supporters?

What exactly is she suppose to do Nichol? Take marching orders from a handfull of P.E.T.A. whack O's ?

[Bob S]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The title here was about supporting the Dove bill, if you feel the need to not support it, why not start a thread of that nature and see how many supportive posts you get.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by trout
Way to go Bob S
Another fine example of your abillities to contribute to something . It sounds like you don`t want contributions to a thread unless they agree with your point of view.