Heads up on future trouble

[Spanky]

This is just an early warning for everyone who loves to fish Lk. Erie for spring eyes.

I have a tip from an extremely good source, that the DNR is going to suggest some major changes in walleye regs next year.
Of course this all does go to different public meetings and forums, that is why I am telling you this now, so you can be prepaired.Many times these meetings are not advertised very well, or in a timely fashion, and the public turnout is usually smaller than it can be.


Because of the small amount of juvenile fish being caught, both in surveys nets and by angler reports, the Department fears a big drop is upon us for future year classes of Erie eyes. They are currently working on some ideas with canadian officials along with ODNR.
They are suggesting one or more of the following:
Raise the minimum size limit from 13 to 15 inches.(I favor this one).
Dropping the daily creel from 6 fish to 5 fish( per day,for all the folks who go out twice and limit both times:rolleyes: ).
Closing the lake to walleye fishing for the months of April, and May!WHAT!!!?

I for one am against the last suggestion for a few reasons.
First, it takes away most of the possibilities for small anglers to fish for eyes in michigan waters.
It also takes away from michigan license holders to use their rights to these fish, we all know many if not most of these fish are gone by June in mich. waters. This years late seasons have helped to make this fishery exceptionally good this June, but usually it's OHIO waters from June through August.

So, I cannot tell you where I got this info, I will say It came to me directly through the department, at a pretty high level. I have also found out that they do not have any plans to shut down the Detroit river fishery at all( except for the lowering of daily creel.
That is crazy. Those are the spawners, not these 15-20 inchers that we are getting now in Erie!

I think they should change the Detroit and st. clair river spring fishery more than any, especially for the big hog hens.

Anyone have any ideas? I would love to hear them, and possibly relate them back to the DNR!

[Spanky]

sorry, the third paragraph phraise should have read, It makes it hard for small"BOAT" anglers, instead of small anglers.:p
These are the ideas I have come up with myself. And as always, the commercial fishery has to drop the same percentage as the sportfishing fishery. I say go to the 15" min. and to 5 fish per day. If you close Erie in april and May for eyes, Than you have to do it to Detroit, St. clair, S.C.river, and the rest of the great lakes. Instead, make it 3 fish per day in APRIL with only one over 26 inches per day.In may make it 5 fish per day, with one fish over 26 inches per day. The rest of the year, 5 fish per day.
Just my opinions, come on guys, lets hear yours,I am very concerned about this!

[steve ypsi]

5 a day over 15 ,this is fine and make it the same all over Erie

[Shoeman]

Spanky,

If they want to protect the fishery, close the Maumee and the the Detroit River during the spawn. As far as the 13" size limit, I always thought it should be 15"

[ESOX]

I agree with most of the proposals. Closing the Detroit R. isn't a bad idea either, but I think that maybe a slot limit to protect those big brood hens would be a good idea too.

[Spanky]

I agree guys, I think alot of folks do!
As a member of the LK. Mich. citezens advisory committee, I can't do alot from over here, but if any of you people know folks in your neck of the woods who are either on the committee, or in other"relationships" with the department,I would suggest you get the ball rolling, and start asking some questions. I know I am a bit peaved about this, and I'm sure this will be an interesting thread/post. Changes for the better are good, but they must be fair to all concerned anglers. If they close the fishery to Walleyes for April, Then the commercial boats should stay dockside also!

I know its hard to believe this great fishery is in trouble, but I have to admitt, 4 yrs ago, we measured alot of fish, and our box had mostly 13-15 inch eyes in it, even back when we could keep ten fish, there were very few 22+ inch fish in the coolers(western basin).Now this year and even last, we have had to measure very few fish. It seems like that should be good, but in reallity, It's not.
The same thing happened in Lk. Mich 8-10 yrs ago. We were getting loads of 10-12 inch perch , everyone was happy, no little fish though. The DNR told us about what may be in store, but we refused to listen, we tried some changes including a month or two moritorium, and a few yrs ago, It seemed to be comming back, but this year and last was pretty dismal.

[Jimbos]

No problem, as long as Ontario cuts back on the number of commerical fisherman lining the border through the center of the lake with nets.

[Spanky]

I am sure they will take a hit too Jimbos!
My source explained to me that that is the major stumbling block right now on getting this on track. Ohio and michigan seem to be in agreement on the 15 " and the five fish, and they haved worked together pretty closely for the last 8 or more years. We all know what to expect from the commercial folks, especially canadian ones!:p

Man Is it hot or what!

[niner93]

A lot of other states are seeing better numbers than ever with walleye, bass and all game fish after they introduced slot limits. Why can't we have 4 fish between 15-20 and one over 26. This would protect most of our spawners and still let us take the tasty ones:D :D

[Lunker]

The limit on the Maumee was reduced last year to 4 then after the spawn it goes back to 6.

[Can't Touch This]

IT'S BOUT TIME!!!!!!!!! I always wanted them to CLOSe the season in april and may for the det river. For one reason and one reason only. People keep the big females all the time, every time they catch em'!!!!!!! I really hate this, beccuse, they don't taste good anyway, and, you are obviously desroying all their eggs, wut a waste. I 100% agree with that. 15 inches?!?!???! NO!!!!!!!! i LOVE my 13-15 inchers, they are the best eatin', and, it's not really hurting the pop, since people keep the ones bigger than that anyway. SLOT LIMIT!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP DNR!!!!!!!! They don't even consider, or think of, a slot limit???? That would be by far the best!!!!!! IN that case, you may be able to keep the season open in the spring.

But, consider one thing, the fihsing will be greatly, greatly improved if you do this, for obvious reasons. Closing the season, i know that most people will be again that, but, that would greatly improve the fisherman, and maybe, maybe like 5 years down the road, re-open the season, with a slot limit!!!!!!!! It's simple, and, i can't bel;ieve no one has thought of that, does anyone have the e-mail for some dnr dude in the state????

But, now that i think about it, eeeek, i think closing the season in spring would be a low blow to the econmy to this area, espessially, of curse, for biat shops and sport goods store, sice people from all over the world come in to catch those hog eyes. I say inpose a strict slot limit in sping, i mean, Keep fish 14-18 inches, and keep one over 30 INCHES, and the limit is 3 for 14-18 inches. I think they should cut the limit to 4 for all time, and a slot limit, too, like in summer, the limit would be 14-20 inches, and one fish over 29 or 30. I think the pop. would boom if we do that. I was just thinking how great the pop. would go up if you close the river for just ONE spring, man, BOOM!!!!!

[Hunt4Ever]

I think some tighter regulations is a good idea.

How about every other year, close the Detroit River, and all it's parts, to walleye fishing and let them spawn. the years you do get to fish, then impose a reduced limit.

How about 4 as a limit for everything.

A slot.....OK.....but I would like to be able to keep one fish in the slot.

I read the DNR is looking for a 40%-60% reduction in the take of walleye. I think the take for 2002 was estimated at a little over 2 million fish. I think Michigan anglers take 180,000 of the 2 million. The real impact is going to be felt by the commercial fisherman.

One last thing, this will only work if everyone (All States and Countries fishing Erie) plays by the same or similar rules.

[ZobZob]

The only problem with closing the Maumee off, for one, is that it is not fair to the vast majority of people (i.e. ones that do not have boats). We take less walleye per person a year than your average boat does in one day.

Zob

[Shoeman]

Zob Zob,

You're right about hurting the guys without boats, but if the fishery is in jeopardy, sobeit. The same goes for the Detroit River. Even if it's just for a few years, I find it a necessary evil.

They did it all around the Saginaw Bay. (Closure)
I would hope if any other fishery is suffering, the DNR and surrounding jurisdictions would step in and take the steps to remedy the potential problem, regardless of the economic impact. If we continue on the current path, the impact would be far more severe than a few lost dollars.

Protecting spawning fish is nothing new. It just seemed to be feasible to cash in on walleye in the Great Lakes until now. The same would go for any other species. Since stocking programs have been reduced do to natural reproduction, we should allow the fish to do just that. The future of our fisheries relies on it.

[Jimbos]

I understand the spirit in which people would think closing the Detroit during the spawn would help the walleye population, but when you have 4 million fish migrate in or through the river, and 50 thousand fish may be caught during that time, closing it isn't going to do squat.

Is there even a law on the books yet requiring freighters to dump ballast before entering the Great Lakes? Or is it being enforced? Anyone checking the stomachs of the gobies?
The problem is not fisherman, especially Michigan fisherman taking too many walleyes.

[Spanky]

Yes Jimbos, there are alot of different groups like, MUCC,MSSFA,GLCBA,and our own DNR working on the ballast problem. Our new governor seems to be quite a bit more interested in getting a handle on the problem.
But the walleye problem needs to be addressed along with dozens of other issues concerning our valuable fisheries.

I don't think Gobies are decimating the walleye, they are running their course just like the zebra mussels.I would suspect walleyes eating walleyes takes a bigger toll than gobies.
I don't have the numbers on fish harvested from Detroit and St.Clair rivers but I am possitive that 50K is not even close to what comes from these two major migration routes. I would bet 50 K comes out of Trenton channel alone.

I am sure of all the variables that effect walleye spawning, and fry survival, we as anglers and general public can control only so much of it.Gobies,mussels,millfoil, water temps, lake levels are all things that we can do nothing about. Changing our fishing habits and the amout of fish actually taken before they even get the chance to spawn, is something that we all can and should do.

Of course all of us would love to be able to go to the lake and take 10 fish a day, any time of the year.But that's not gonna happen, reguardless who/what is to blame.

I used to fish the Detroit a few times each spring, but the fun has pretty much gone to fishing in a combat zone. The fish are way to big and old for decent eating, and now we argue over who will get to keep the few 18-20 inch fish that are caught.

Canada already has a slot limit, I am not sure what it is,.I'll check!;)

[Spanky]

I just found out the canadian slot is only on LSC and its 6 fish only one can be over 18 inches.:cool:

[ZobZob]

I only went once this spring but why is it that people always say protect the spawning fish in the river... what about about the millions that get taken out on the lake before they spawn? I think that problem is 100-fold times any impact river fisherman have on the survival of the species. I plan to get a boat someday and keep a few myself so maybe I'll change my view a little. However, I went out on Erie a couple of weeks ago and saw about 2 million boats out there getting their limits (or close to it). All of those fish either have spawned before or were going to spawn in the future. You can take all of them out of the equation. If everyone is truly concerned then the limit needs to be lowered (rivers and lakes).

Zob

[Jimbos]

Spank, I just can't remember where I got the 50K figure from, but it truly was a drop in the bucket caught compared to the total that actually runs the river. It just seems to me to be a very drastic step to completely shut down what the April circus has turned into. Also the total Michigan take of walleyes wasn't squat compared to Ohio and Ontario.
It's too late to do anything about the freighter ballast dumpings which has upset the whole balance of things, but it sure isn't too late to clamp down hard on the Ontario commerical netters.

[Can't Touch This]

You figure in the river on a given day in spring there would be, eh, 1000 boats, maybe more, maybe less. If they all get there limits, that around 15,000 eyes taken(figuring about an average of 2 persons a boat) how many days would it be like that???? 20??? Well that is 550,000 fish taken every spring, out of the wut you said 4 million that are in there, that is about 1/6 of the fish taken, and, how many fry eyes could that've been??? and i bet you 90% or more are females with tons, and tons of eggs. I seriously don't get why people keep the bigger ones, the small ones taste much, much better, and, 6 18 inchers is good for several meals. I think maybe a closure is a little too much, i think a stict slot limit in spring, again, and lowering of the fish limit, maybe only 3, in spring, and in summer, a slot limit, too, and a lowering or the limit, too.

[CMUsalmon]

i agree that there should be a lower limit for the entire year but i don't believe that they should close the season during the spring months. there usually isn't a need to keep 6 fish per trip in my opinion but then again, that is just my opinion. i really think that it is the commercial fisherman that do the most damage and i don't believe that the sportfishermen should be the ones that have to suffer.

[Swamp Ghost]

When you have a population of 80 million walleyes and it drops to 26 million, you have to look no further than 3 consecutive years of terrible spawning and changes within Lake Erie.

Adopt a slot limit the only legal fish being 15-20". Save those hens from being slapped on the wall.

WOW! No one questioned the Lake Erie walleye population ESTIMATES? ;)

[Shoeman]

At least they're not trying to tell us that the hens need to be removed. :D

Good point.

[ESOX]

QWM????:eek: :eek: :eek:
I will agree with just about any proposal to protect the Walleye fishery. They have taken a pounding for a long time. Once the numbers get too low it would take a LONG time for them to recover. I am happy to see a proactive approach being taken before things are way out of hand. A couple of years of much tighter restrictions is a small price to pay to ensure the future of the fishery. I have always had reservations about the six fish limit, but I am not sure that is the main reason for the current problem. I have heard that there was very low recruitment for a few years running, and there was no definite reason found to explain why. Perhaps Mike Thomas could shed some light on this for us.

[Spanky]

I have been doing a bit of reading/surfing, and it seems as though they have decided to move the min. size to 15, and 3 fish per day in april and may. It hasn't been announced officially yet. I would bet that Ohio, and Mich will follow their lead. I agree with swamp ghost, except I believe that we should be able to keep 1 fish over 20 inches daily.

If they do incorperate a slot limit, I think alot of larger pro tournaments will go elsewhere.

[ESOX]

Originally posted by Spanky
If they do incorperate a slot limit, I think alot of larger pro tournaments will go elsewhere.


Yet another good reason for a slot limit. I get tired of all the dead fish floating around after the venerated "Pros" put a bunch of very stressed, or even already dead fish back in the water.

[Tom (mich)]

It is estimated that no more than 10% of Erie's fish spawn in the Detroit and Maumee Rivers. The VAST majority spawn on the western basin reef structures. Therefore, any discussion related to closing the Detroit River is illogical. Secondly, a female walleye removed from the ecosystem (caught and eaten) is not going to spawn the next season, be it April or October. Therefore, any discussion related to closing seasons anywhere for the months of April and May is illogical.

If they are truly SERIOUS about protecting the fishery, the only logical solution(s) include YEAR-ROUND reduced bag limits (including commercial takes) and a YEAR-ROUND slot limit. It makes no sense whatsover to do something for the "spawning months" only. One more point, it makes no sense to implement a slot limit in the absence of a no-cull rule also. Otherwise, you'll have guys running around with slot fish getting beat up in livewells, only to be "culled" later.

As far as impact on tournament activity, there are many tournaments held nationally that occur on slot lakes. It simply adds another dimension of strategy to the day - no big deal.

[ESOX]

Where does that 10% figure come from?

[Tom (mich)]

I believe it's called the Ohio Sea Grant survey.

[Jim S.]

Let me start by stating I typically only fish for walleyes during the Spring run on the Detroit River. Why is that? Because there are a massive amount of fish moving within a relatively confined area (compared to Lake Erie habitat) trying to answer nature's call.

And I don't care what anyone says, the chances for bagging a trophy class fish are better during prespawn in the river. Why else is it a zoo every Spring compared to the rest of the year?Make enough drifts through the channels and it's been relatively easy pickin's.

Tom, the 10% figure you're quoting...is that an average over how many years? I gotta believe that number fluctuates with the weather and other variables even though I believe some fish are genetically programmed to be river (or lake) spawners, just not ALL walleye. What I'm getting at is if the weather and temperatures are not optimal for spawning then do more "lake" spawners head up the river where conditions are generally more consistent and dependable (i.e. less affected by winds and temp fluctuations)?

I disagree that closing the Detroit River is an "illogical" option. Putting limits only on sportfishermen and not commercial fishermen is illogical. As far as implementing slot limits only in the spawn months and not afterward I think that suggestion may be to try to satisfy the angling public by not totally restricting their catches for the remainder of the year. I agree that it would make more sense to have the slot year round.

As far as tournaments and the no-cull rule, I've butted heads with a few others on this board regarding general ethics and behavior associated with most tournament angling. I don't want to say too much other than if say for example a PWT (or FLW) angler had 5 six pound walleyes (or five 4 lb. smallies) in the livewell and unintentionally gut hooked a 5.5 lb. walleye (or 3.5 lb. smallie) would that angler throw out a healthy fish from the livewell and keep the gut hooked fish accepting the dead fish penalty? I'm guessing not. What happens to the gut hooked fish? Bottom line is I agree that there should be no-cull rules always in effect in tournaments to prevent what you suggested...having bass or walleyes bounced around for maybe hours and then being released only to (potentially) die shortly afterward.

I believe that protecting spawning fish, even if it's "only" 10%, is a worthwhile undertaking if it means preventing possible further depletion of the Erie/Maumee/Detroit River walleye fisheries. I honestly believe that that 10% of spawners every year can and does have an impact on the entire walleye fishery.

[Spanky]

These are all good ideas, and theories.:)
I don't remember anyone saying most of the walleyes spawn in the rivers. We all know that is false. I think that the general thought is that most of the spawning walleyes for the system travel through one or more of the following concentrated areas to get to their spawning grounds: Maumee, Detroit, or St.Claire rivers.To impose a no fishing rule for april, and may on mich waters of erie, without changing ANY of the regs for the above mich rivers, seems a little senseless to me.
And just so you know, the comercial fishing fleets will also take a bit of a beating over the changes.:D

[Zofchak]

When bringing up such ideas as closing the season during the spawn, don't forget about the bait and tackle shops we rely on. If they dont see any income from the walleye runs in the spring you can pretty much count on them not being there for many more seasons.
I think a lower daily limit would do alot for the fishery, there are many people that could not fit another fillet in the freezer that will be taking home a full cooler this weekend. I know it would be almost impossible to enforce, but a seasonal limit would do more than any daily limit changes. It's the guys out there every day all season long that can put a dent on the population. God knows I envy their full freezer dilemas, but you got to know when to throw some back.

[Spanky]

How about the truly greedy ones who break the law and go back out fishing / keeping fish,after they have already limited and cleaned their fish.!:mad:

[ESOX]

I spent some time in the wee hours of the morning reading the Ohio Sea Grant site. Tons of info there, I never even got to the part about the spawn. Very interesting stuff there.