Deer slaughter................rebuttal!!!!

[ONURNEZ]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their input to my original thread. I was amazed to see the passionate responces! I was also quite amazed to see some of the ignorant responces. (skibum) If you took the time to read the thread completely, you probably noticed that I was'nt BASHING anybody. My point in writing what I wrote was to profess MY passion for bow hunting. Just because I didnt like what I saw opening day does'nt mean I think gun hunting is immoral OR unethical. I, in fact, think it is a necessity. As far as looking "down" at gunhunters, that is a rediculous statement as well. As I originally stated, I have made it a point to be out there every opening day. Since I was 14 in fact! Bottom line is, I love to hunt. I think where some people were having a problem with what I wrote, is right here. If you had a deer fenced off in a pen, went out and shot it, would you consider that hunting? I wouldnt. When a farmer takes an animal in to be butchered, is that hunting? I don't think so. Are either of these situations any different than sitting on the edge of a field, knowing that its NOT a normal deer route, but also knowing that every year, fleeing deer cut through this area, then just blasting away at them when they do? Well, obviously it IS different. Sadly enough though (in my opinion) this is an accepted way of harvesting deer. My quiestion was, is it really HUNTING??? Maybe "slaughter" was a bit to strong of a word to use. I should have used "harvest." My appologies to anyone that was offended. That was not my intention. I personally know SEVERAL people that don't spend any time in the woods before opening day. Does that make them bums? No. Does that make their way wrong? No. I just have a different opinion. I know there are thousands of hunters that cant or dont get out prior to the opener. Frankly, I feel sorry for them. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of them would LOVE to be able to be out more than they are. Time constraints and resourses often dont allow it though. I have an opinion, and it's my right as an American to express it! Its called FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I was disappointed to see my original thread locked. THAT seams to be dangerously close to cencorship! I wasnt looking to divide ANY hunters. If you have an opinion on this topic, save the bashing for someone that deserves it and give me YOUR definition of hunting. I wont bash you for disagreeing! Good hunting all!

[Hunt4Ever]

Well said Trout!

[Huntnut]

Hey Onyourknees....did everyone miss that? LOL....Ok...how do you feel about deer hunting with dogs? How about crossbows? Don't get me wrong....I only bowhunt as well..but can you honestly say you've never blasted away at an escaping deer with a shotgun? Do you think we should limit #of shells allowed in the deer gun like we do waterfowl? How would you feel about gun hunting for deer being outlawed? You stuck your neck out with that first one...with that new stretched neck perspective...what do you see? What changes would you make if you were all powerful? BTW I also agree your thread should not have been locked. Opinions will ALWAYS differ...with hunting forums being relatively new....it is good to stretch our legs and talk issues....besides Skibum may be hunting that next blind over, I feel it is good to know how he feels....and to hell with the anti's...I refuse to walk upon eggshells in fears of what they might think. Say what you feel or don't say anything at all.
Huntnut

[bonasabuster]

LOL you only wished to express your passion for bowhunting ok the next time then write down the reasons and content that make this your passion. when you try to express passions or elavate your beliefs by putting down someone or something else you only prove your lack of intelligence or expression [look at politics today!].worth while passions will stand on there own!

[Coldwater Charters]

ONURNEZ, I think the main problem everyone had with the first post was a little finger pointing by you. One thing I have learned over years of just plain life is that everyone is different. Some like Tomatoes and some don't. As far as hunting fence rows for fleeing deer, to me is a smart stratagy for a possible shot, especially later in the season like Thanksgiving day. I know there is no bigger thrill at least for me then having a nice buck or what ever inside of 15 yards with absolutely no clue your there while your bowhunting. But during firearms season there are a lot more people out and simply more hunting pressure is put on the deer. Making it very hard to get that standing broadside while they eat shot. I think if you put the same amount of hunters in the woods during bow season as happens during firearms season, you would see a different animal in the woods. I personally never step in the woods during firearm season unless to retrieve a downed animal. I could be wrong but if I leave the woods undisturbed I'll have more deer and a possible chance at that broadside while they eat shot. I think the main reason the post was stopped was because it got a little ugly and for the most part the opinions were very simular. As a person we must always keep in mind that my way of thinking is not always how others think.


[This message has been edited by Coldwater Charters (edited 11-21-2000).]

[ONURNEZ]

Thanks Trout. :c) Huntnut, I think hunting deer with dogs would be unethical, as well as illegal. In fact, though I've never had to do it personaly, I wouldnt have a problem with someone shooting a dog that was running deer. Where I'm from it was called the 3 S's. Shoot em, Shovel em and Shut up. Crossbow hunting is legal in some states, I dont have a problem with that. As far as limiting shells in a gun......makes no difference to me. I like to think 1 shot is all I need anyway!! :c) Glad to see my opinion means so much to ya! If you werent my cousin I'd come over there and bitch-slap ya for being such a smart ass!! LOL Good hunting all!

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Deer hunting with dogs is legal in several states down south, as well as in ontario. Why is it unethical to hunt a deer with a hound, yet not unethical to hunt rabbits, fox, coyote, bobcats, squirrels, ect with one?

[fishinlk]

FYI... Ohio has limitied slugs in the gun just like duck hunters! Makes people think a little more before they shoot.... Could MI be next??

[Stinger]

Propose to limit or ban something in Michigan? I think there are too many cry babies to even think it.

[fishinlk]

A lot of people cried about it down here.

And I got your point. :)

[ONURNEZ]

bonusabuster......If you feel you were being put down by something I wrote, maybe you should take a long hard look in the mirror.

Mr. 16 gauge.....To be honest with you, I had no idea of that until tonight. I suppose if its legal and an accepted practice to hunt deer with dogs down south, more power to em! I get your point about using dogs for coon, fox etc. I just don't think I could bring myself to do it for deer, even if it were legal up here. I don't suppose there are too many Michigan hunters that would enjoy seeing a dog running a deer when they're sittin in their treestands though! I could be wrong! Thanks for your input!

[hoytshooter]

ONURNEZ,

The problem that I had with your original post was that it seemed to put all gun hunters in the same group. I agree with you that there are is a section of our sport that I would not want in my woods either. I would assume that from your rebuttal, that you intended it different than what it came across to me. OH, and by the way welcome to the forum!!!

[Hunter333]

I commend all for sharing how they feel, even if it is not the generally accepted rule or language.
ONURNEZ, I guess you have gotten a taste for the passion that we have here at this forum. Live and learn I say, for everyone. As stated before, welcome to the forum :)


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ONE shot, ONE kill..No excuses, no exceptions EVER!!

[Joe Archer]

"I hunt, therefor I am". What is hunting? Hunting is life! <----<<<

[Skibum]

First of ONURNEZ, I will always defend your right to free speech no matter how stupid your opinion may be. In regards to my ignorant response to your original post let me see, you say you're not bashing anybody? How about comments like "part-time wanna be hunters"? Or "90% of the people that were out "hunting" opening day probably had not stepped a foot into the woods prior to this."? (Interesting statistic since better than a third of gun hunters also bowhunt. Of course there is the ever popular "I'll accept the challenge of REAL HUNTING once December 1st arrives". To me your attitude shows a great deal of arrogance. Amazingly you reinforce that impression in this post. Yep, gun hunting is equal to shooting a deer fenced in a pen but bowhunters are one with nature hunting the only pure way. Sorry but I find that to be pure BS. Sitting in a treestand over a pile of carrots with your mechanical broadheads, release, lighted sights etc. does not put you on some higher plane than every one else. No question there are gun hunters out there who's behaviour puts a bad light on the rest of us. There are bowhunters who do the same. We all lose when other hunters behave poorly and we should never justify their behavior. The point of my response was that if don't care to hunt during firearm season fine. That is your right. We all have different parts about the hunting experience that we enjoy and that includes hunters who may not be as serious as some of us. So what. Good for them for getting out at all. I'm not much of a golfer. Should I be critized if I go out and thrash a ball around the course a couple times a year if I'm enjoying myself? You need to learn a little more humility and tolerance for others rather than the my way is the only way you seem to pocess.

Skibum

[Neapolis]

ONURNEZ - I have followed both this and your previous post, I have chosen not to comment.

But I feel I need to make a statement about your comment -

"Its called FREEDOM OF SPEECH! I was disappointed to see my original thread locked. THAT seams to be dangerously close to cencorship"

I hope you realize that none of the forums on the internet are free speech forums. - They are the private domain of the owner. We are fortunate in two areas. 1 - we have a good bunch of people participating here and there is very little bashing between the posters. 2 - Steve runs a good forum, he does not continually editoralize or paraphrase the posts made by users as is done on some other forums. Steve has every right to close / delete any post on his forum. I for one want to make sure you and everyone else here understands that.



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Neapolis
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[Tom222]

ONERNEZ, welcome back.
Your last post was closed because it was beginning to digress from the true issue of hunting, as has this one.
You offended some people. It was obvious from your 1st posting that you don't have much respect for the way some people are gun hunting, even though they are operating within the confines of the law.
Not everyone shares the same standard of ethics, but as long as they operate within the law, we need to RESPECT their right to an opinion. That doesn't mean that you have to like it or agree with it.
People were upset because you were attacking a different code of ethics, and wheather you meant to or not, the message came across as saying that your methods are superior to theirs.
Having convictions is an admirable quality, but so is respect, and I think that we could avoid this whole line of conversation if we showed respect for the opinions of others, even if we don't agree with them.
Opinions are like noses, everyone has one, and no one enjoys having someone trying to pick theirs for them.
I hope that you take this in the respectful manner in which it was intended.
Have a great holiday!

[BowHunt10]

Im sitting here drinking many beers....and i didn't read the first thread....i find this post very humorous. :) Anyway, bits and pieces here and there i agree with. I love bowhunting and prefer it, but i carry a gun to the woods also. I do agree with the point that a major part of gun hunters only step foot in the woods on the 15th, they dont take the time to find deer or spend time finding a deer after its hit if there isn't an allyway of blood to track. I prefer to hunt with a bow because i was getting sick en tired of having branches shot off the tree i was sitting under because they saw movment, now i just shoot back, just kidding...i hunt family land now, by myself except for the first 2-3 days of gun season. anyway, nice post..>>>

[ONURNEZ]

Thanks again everyone for your replies. If nothing else, this has been fun to follow! Skibum, do you believe that all the hunters in the woods on opening day are ethical sportsman? I guess if you found the comment of "part time wanna be hunters" to be bashing people, thats exactly who it would be bashing. And unless you fell into that catagory, what was there to be offended about? As far as 90% of the hunters not being out there prior to opening day, That by no means is factual OR backed up with data. ITS AN OPINION! One I still stand by too. Don't get me wrong, I know for a fact that there are plenty of unethical bowhunters out there too. They piss me off just as much as the unethical gun hunters! I've been fortunate enough to not have to deal with any first hand though. Someone in the original thread said I was just pissed because someone else probably got the deer I was to "inept" to get. Its funny to see that. I assume that person was talking from personal experiance but, I have indeed had the same experiance. (Though not this year.) I did however hit an 8 point earlier this season that I was unable to recover. I was in the woods until 1 AM following a VERY sparse bloodtrail. I spent the entire next day scouring the adjacent fields as well. I get a very sick feeling when I hit an animal like that and cannot retrieve it. Anyway, the happy ending is that my friends dad shot that eight point on opening morning. it had a slice about two inches long, right behind his front leg. (chest area). I was happy that he got that deer. If nothing else. for the peace of mind it gave me, knowing it wasnt rotting in a ditch somewhere.
Happy Turkey Day everyone!!

[stevebrandle]

Well folks, all I want to say about this and the original post is- post what you think, but think about what you post. Read it over a couple of times and try to be objective.

Steve B.