Dissapointed in Mathews....

[Swamp Monster]

Mathews has stooped to new lows imo. First of all I like Mathews bows. A few of there models were at the top of my list when I was bow shopping. As everyone knows Mathews spend far more than any other company on advertising, with Hoyt coming in not to far behind. Well, in the newest isues of Bowhunt America Mathews is running its newest 2 page add that does nothing but slam Hoyt and the cam.5......actually calling Hoyt and its president a liar. I cannot remember any other companies going this route with their advertising. Sure, Hoyt advertising has knocked single cams etc and other companies have knocked twin cams....but never deliberately going after a specific company and their execs. This is obviously a desperate attempt to regain the market share Hoyt has taken. It's too bad because a Mathews bow can stand on it's own merit. Like I said, I think they are excellent bows, just dissapointed with this new add campaign.

I guess I should clarify, I would have posted this even if I would have purchased a Mathews

[farmlegend]

Sounds to me like an act of desperation. Industry leaders traditionally don't directly criticize their competition in print advertising unless they smell a real threat.

Mathews has always been a savvy marketer. My guess is they are genuinely fearful that the industry may be heading back in the direction of the two-cam design. The return of two cams would be bad news for Mathews, as they have invested heavily to establish their reputation as the "one cam" company.

Mathews produces an excellent product; I'm on my second Mathews bow. If they're resorting to attacking Hoyt, they must be feeling some heat.

[mich buckmaster]

Mathews was HOT, now they're NOT!!!!!!!!

I know quite a few Mathews shooters, who are only there for reputation and advertising. They arent that great of shots.

Oh well, I am now a Hoyt man, and I see how Mathews is now treading water. They ae seeing a decline, and they are at drastic measures.

[Chuck]

The sad part is how most of us are like sheep we will believe everything we read in an advertisement. Its easy to get swept up inb it all.

The best way to pick a bow is shoot alot of different bows not by what an advertisement tells you to do.

When I got mine last year I shot over a dozen different type of bows, I settled on the Hoyt MT sport. Im shooting a 30" cx 300 carbon shaft with 125 grain tip at 262 fps. Any faster and I would have problems with broad head flight and have to switch to mechs. Im very happy with this bow so far and wont change until I wear this one out.:)

[Bow_Hunter]

The proof is in the product. I very seldom purcahse anything just based on an add and most of the poeple I know are the same.

It is just an add.

Their product will sink or swim based on it's performance. Bow Hunters and Archery Shooters are picky. They will only buy it if it does what they need.

[mich buckmaster]

Bow Hunter, that is true, but ANY bow shoots well. If you tune it right, and have everything perfect I will GUARANTEE that I can kill any animal with that bow.

NOW, Mathews is "Top of the Line" so people will buy that bow because of its NAME and Adds!! Not performance, now that is not everyone, but some.

Its just too bad that a company would have to stoop so low.

[Banditto]

mich buckmaster, stop over and pick up an old bear I have in my garage... just kidding. I get your point.

[Swamp Monster]

I agree that it's just an add and most folks, if they are atleast halfway serious about bowhunting and archery are not going to buy a bow based on an add alone. I was just surprised to see such an add, especially from a hunting/fishing related company. I can't think of any similiar outdoor companies blatantly attacking another competitor. I'm sure it has happened, but you just don't see it much in this industry. I don't know if what the add states is true, nor do I care. The Bowhunt America magazine is the only periodical where I have seen this two page spread, so I'm not sure if it's a widespread campaign. Time will tell if this is the direction Mathews is planning to go.

[Bow_Hunter]

"Top of the line" - but how did they get there?

It does not matter how many Jaguar adds I see on TV. I still am not going to buy this car.

I understand what you are saying and I do not disagree.

[catfish JR]

I picked up that mag yesterday at my bow shop came home read it and couldnt belive it.Ive never seen anyone knock other companys like that.like someone said companys have knocked twin cams single cams but not right at a company.I think its a desperate cheap shot on matthews part.But I dont know why at my bow shop they About 70 percent of the people their shoot Matthews and hoyt is right behind.I own a Reflex wich is a hoyt and Im still looking at getting a cam&1.5 Reflex cause ive seen the speeds and the way they shoot.So that ad didnt afect me all that much.

[mich buckmaster]

Banditto, LMAO!!!:D ;) :p

[onebad800]

my matthews shoots 100g thunderheads 300 carbons and has no flight issues ? Oh and it shoots 292fps at 62#draw? you dont have to shoot mech.

[thornapple]

All that effort on bashing Hoyt and they never bothered mentioning Dartons CPS cam. Considering the cam and 1/2 and the CPS are basically the same concept. Its pretty sad when your product cant sell itself and they have to resort to these tactics. :o Two cam bows are definately on the horizon once again.

[Tony H.]

Actually, I think Mathews' ads are a response to Hoyt's tactics. They are claiming to have invented the 1.5 cam when it's very clear they did not. I don't know about you, but if my company had pioneered a technology and someone else was claiming they did I'd be pretty blatant in my criticism of them as well. Kind of like Mr. Gore —_inventor of the Internet.

[east bay ed]

tony h. you don't really want to go there with your logic. don't forget this is the archery industry. the first single cam bow was the jenning unistar, not a matthews. the first compound was a allen but they don't get much credit anymore.

mathews has done this before. they smashed on pse about the durango even before they went to court on the deal. pse agreed to put a weight in the cam and pay matthews to settle the thing, not saying pse was right.

the number of archers is not growing anymore and you have to keep selling more bows.
i hope pse and bowtech don't resort to the same thing matthews is doing.

[Tony H.]

So PSE pays Mathews for stealing their idea but did nothing wrong? I think the fact that they paid says it all.

Also, Mathews perfected single-cams not invent them. They did invent parallel-limb technology which made single-cams work. Hoyt didn't invent anything on their new bows. And that's what Mathews is saying.

Anytime a certain level of perfection is reached their is always going to be envy and resentment. I think that's what's happening here with Mathews.

People don't like Mathews because they advertise too much? You must hate every car manufacturer, McDonalds, Nike, Budweiser, etc.

Mathews puts out a solid product and is proud of it. When someone claims to have invented something and take credit for it, they speak up. To me, that's having a backbone and I appluad it.

And if there's any question that Mathews is having success, simply open the Wall Street Journal or any other business publication and check them out on the NYSE. Won't find much out there about Hoyt or any other company for that matter.

[farmlegend]

Hey, no Mathews dealers!:D

And when did Mathews become a publicly held company, did I miss something? I did a Yahoo finance search, and found no publicly traded company named Mathews. Is it a subsidiary of a public company?

Don't mean to give you a hard time, Tony. I shoot a Mathews myself.

[mich buckmaster]

Mathews puts out a solid product and is proud of it. When someone claims to have invented something and take credit for it, they speak up. To me, that's having a backbone and I appluad it.

But as you say Hoyt didnt INVENT anything, well in your statement and from others Mathews didnt either, they just made it better.

Well that is what Hoyt did, made it better.

For me, Team Hoyt!!

[east bay ed]

tony,
pse made a cosmetic infringement, that is what it was called anyway. i said in my post that i was not saying pse is right.
but when you work in the industry you notice not everyone is buying a new $500.00+ bow every year. the industry needs to work together to bring more bowhunters into the sport not start pissing matches between each other over who invented what. like was mentioned before if anyone has a right to say something about hoyts cam and a half it would be darton. they have been using the cps cam for some time now.
my thought is you build the best bow you can and put it out on the market and see what happens. i am not a big hoyt fan but thats what they have done and it is working for them.

just my two cents, and now i will leave this pandora's box alone.

[Swamp Monster]

Tony H, OK, here's the bottom line, plain and simple. Darton came out with the CPS hybrid cams in 1996. Hoyt is currently paying a licensing fee to Darton due to the similiarity in the cam system. This is commen in the archery business industry, look at all the companies that paid the licensing fee to Mathews for their perimeter weighted single cam. Now, Darton has claimed no timing issues and level nock travel all of this time and Mathews hasn't hammered them in ads. You know why? Darton wasn't making a huge dent in Mathews market share. Hoyt is and this is what Mathews has resorted to in return. Thats the bottome line, no more no less. And it's really unfortunate because Mathews builds an excelent product that can stand on its own merit. Every year they come out with a new innovative product, atleast before this year. The V lock limb system is nice but they didn't have any problems with there other limb pockets, so it's mostly a marketing ploy. And those limb pockets sure aren't new...new to Mathews maybe. Does that make the V Lock system bad, ofcourse not, but it won't slow down Hoyt sales, therefore you won't see any Hoyt adds bashing this "new" design.

[fulldraw]

I have noticed that Hoyt has come out with the Cam1/2, but Darton has had a smillar cam system for years. They call a 2 cam but the upper cam acts like a idler wheel but it eliminates the knock jump. So intend when pull back it is like pulling back a recurve. Meaning not as much movement put on the arrow.

Also I will agree Mathews manufactures great products, but they cost way to much for me. Maybe if they died down on the advertiseing maybe more of us could afford them.


Fulldraw.

[Chuck]

fulldraw you hit the nail on the head

the only reason you pay sooooooo much for a mathews is becouse of the advertising. It is a nice product for sure but you are without a doubt paying for all the advertising.

Its the same thing with a box of cereal. It costs something like 50 cents to make a box of cereal and another 3 bucks to make the box.

Think about how much you pay for all the 4 page spreads in all the hunting mags. That has to cost a big chunk of change. Not to mention to pay all the top shooters to shoot your stuff wow it really adds up.

[Swamp Monster]

I agree somewhat that you're paying for some of that adverstising, but thats the case with the majority of the products we buy. If you look at most of the leading bow companies, there top shelf bows are all expensive and as long as consumers like me and thousands of others are willing to pay the price, those prices will continue. You can't blame the bow companies, the market is there.

[Tony H.]

There's no doubt that there's a lot of "borrowing" of ideas in the archery world. and that's good business really. But you can't have a company claiming something it didn't do. At least it doesn't sit right with me anyway.

Mathews didn't necessarily invent single-cams. But they did figure out how to make them tick and they brought a whole new level of excitement to archery. I think that deserves respect. I own a pair of Mathews and a Hoyt Magnatec and I like them all or I wouldn't have bought them.

I, personally, don't think Mathews are an overly "expensive" bow. They're a pro-shop product and you have to pay for that. In other words, Mathews (or Hoyt or Bowtech, etc.) aren't cookie-cutter operations really. There's a lot of hands-on work done by individual craftsmen. That's a quality product and you can't get that for $199.95.

i really didn't mean to sound like a Hoyt basher. I just don't understand the negativity towards a company that's revolutionized our equipment.

[thornapple]

Mathews slogan has been "catch us if you can". Looks like its time for a new slogan. :p

[Trushot_Archer]

They did invent parallel-limb technology which made single-cams work.

You absolutely sure about that Tony? I thought that Bowtech was a little quicker.

I don't see what the big deal is anyway...advertising is code for "load of crap". I do agree that they should be able to somehow back up what they say. But as far as idea wrangling...I really think it benefits the consumer anyway no?

The whole archery game in the "New Bow" arena is really about technology. Sharing (Ok...or stealing:D ) ideas only brings the consumers more and better choices. Anyone that has shot the CPS from darton and the Hoyt cam.5 both can see that, regardless of cam tech similarities...these bows are apples to oranges. I'm not saying one's better or worse, just different.
So in 2003 we, consumers, have 2 choices if we're in the market for a hybrid cam system...they'll be more soon I bet too. I think it's a good thing and I'd like one of each;)

[Fred Bear]

I shoot a Mathews legacy and LOVE it!!! Hoyt makes a great bow. This year Mathews had nothing great to offer for change and Hoyt did. Archery is all about personal preference anyway. That is why you never see 2 bows set up exactly alike. For every archer out there, there is a "best" bow, release, arrow, sight, ect.
Weather Mathews or Hoyt invented whatever makes no difference, shoot the set up that puts your arrows where you want them.
Mathews is in the Bow business and that is how I see the new ad. There way of selling bows. Or convincing the market which one is best.
I have shot the cam and 1/2 and the new LX and I don’t like either one of them. I still would buy the Legacy. But that’s me. A bow is just a extension of you and we are all different. Now if I could get Mathews to build a bow custom for me....... :)

[One Eye]

I beg to differ on the the Mathews bow line being the source of this company's financial success. It is just a component. This company is into many different products and archery is just one.

Personally, I think that the ad was in very poor taste, and I would not buy a Mathews because of it. I have owned a few Mathews, and they shot fine. Nothing to get excited about, but good, solid bows. I have also owned several Hoyts, and they were good bows too. Too bad Hoyt won't be professional enough to acknowledge Darton's "innovations."

I think I will head out this afternoon and check out the new Archery Research bows! BTW, someone should check out which companies have the most archery patents. I think you would be surprised who have been the true innovators in this industry! While you are at it, search on parallel limb technology. Mathews didn't invent that one either!

Dan

[Swamp Monster]

One Eye, I agree that Darton was the first to bring this technology to market...they just don't have the reputation and customer base that Hoyt does to make it sell as well. The Dartons are a great bow no doubt, but it's pretty funny that all of a sudden they are calling their CPS system a hybrid cam......Before Hoyt was dominating the market, they called their CPS system a single cam. Why? If the systems are so closely designed (the courts say they are) then why didn't Darton call them hybrid cams two or three years ago. Now that Hoyt is selling them faster than they can make them, Darton wants to take advantage of the popularity of a system it helped pioneer. As well they should. I guess I'll never understand Darton. Here they have the R&D to come up with the CPS, a wonderfull cam system, yet they are using riser and limb design that is over a decade old! Sure they have added Martins riser dampening modules buts thats it. Are they solid designs, absolutely, but in todays archery market solid designs just aren't enough. Darton needs to step up to the plate, they make an excellent bow but I can't help but think what the potential could be.....
I have talked to a few who have shot those AR's and all have said excellent things. I believe PSE owns AR or they are involved somehow.

[One Eye]

I agree with the fact that Darton really missed the boat on this one. This is the very reason that Mathews has been successful. It wasn't innovation, but rather ingenious marketing. Nothing wrong with that. This is the way that Bill Gates became ultra-rich.

I shot the AR31 and several of the new Hoyts yesterday. Man was I impressed. I am torn between the AR31 and the Hoyt HavocTec. Awesome bows. Very smooth, fast, and quiet. Decision, decisions!

Dan

[Swamp Monster]

Keep shootin' em and then shoot a few others, you'll find whats best for you. The problem is there are so many good bows! (not a bad problem!) So many bows and so little time and surely not enough money......I wish I could afford to have 4-5 layin' around the house!

[Trushot_Archer]

I hear that Swamp...If I had the cash I'd have a AR34, a Darton Maverick, a Mathews SQ2, a Hoyt Razortech, a Kodiak 36, a Wheeler Velociraptor....And by god I'd shoot and complain about every single one!LOL.

[Swamp Monster]

Nice line up. For me it would be my Ultra Tec, BowTech Extreme VFT, AR37, Mathews Conquest III and I'm certain I could easily add a few more! Oh heck, give me a Mathews Icon and a Hoyt Super Tec.....it's my dream and I can spend as much as I like!

[langkg]

This is a really interesting thread so I thought I'd add my two cents. I just retired my 'dusty but trusty' 1983 Browning Delux Nomad XL bow this year after a solid 20+ years of bow hunting and dozens of dead deer. It was time for a change. Laminated maple limbs, wood riser...you get the picture - a compound bow made when compounds were in thier infancy. This thing is a dog by today's standards and in fact, my custom recurve is faster if you can beleive it (around 160 fps if I remember right). Regardless, it got the job done and I've taken a few deer every year with it.

I've been researching new bows for the past couple of years.
I ended up buying a Mathews Outback. Why? Definetly not advertising. I don't drop $700 due to a pretty ad. I was a little dismayed myself seeing the new Mathews ad. That's not real professional marketing. Regardless, I bought the bow for the inovative features. The roller cable guard and clean approach to vibration damping was a big one for me. There are a lot of great bows out there and everyone has thier favorites. For me it's Mathews.

Additonally, I'm always amused by the in-depth debates about arrow speed. How two guys can argue over 10 or 20 fps amazes me. OK so you get 1/4" less drop at 40 yards. Most guys don't shoot deer that far anyway but if you do and you practice it doesn't make much difference. Like I said, I'm almost doubling arrow speed coming off my old relic of a bow but the last one did fine for me. I'm looking forward to increasing my effective range a bit but the overall features and innovation of the Mathews bow is what sells me.

On a lighter note....................how about the blonde in all the Martin archery ads!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW WERE TALKIN!!!!!!!!!!!

-KEN-

[ArrowHawk]

I not sure where this thread was going since I haven't read through it all but I would have to agreee in the disappointment in any company that started bashing another.

I received alot of grief when I was shooting my Oneidas are the guys I shoot and hunt with started buying Mathews. I didn't let it get to me beacuse at the end of the seasons I had tags filled. They did not.

When I was ready to get a new bow I had my eyes on a new Oneida. Why did they give it to me then. Since there wasn't anyplace open that had Oneida (October first go figure Bow broke opening morning) I went to a shop and shot a few. Yes I even touched a Mathews and it just wasn't me. I ended up walking out with a Hoyt. Why? Beacause it felt the best over everything I tried.

Needless to say I'm still getting the BS from my buddies but I'm still filling tags and they still aren't.

In the long run don't listen to the BS shoot with what your comfortable with.
I don't even look at the advertisments.

But since langkg meantioned the Blonde in the Martin ad I may have to check that one out :evil:

[Fred Bear]

wow, this is an old thread!

[newk8]

The blond in the add is worth the paper it is printed on and then some. I have owned a wheeler for the past five years, and a blue mountain before that. I have tuned bows and rebuilt bows and basically helped out when guys needed things fixed for Wheeler. He has a good product and has some interesting points about bows. Is he the best? Depends on who you talk to, and what your personal opinion is. The key is this, shoot what feels right to you. There is nothing worse than wounding and animal just because you had to have this bow or that. Same with guns, fishing gear, etc. Speed is higly overrated, as many hunters will not take a shot over 20 yards anyways. Practice with whatever bow you shoot, and get good at it. Then everything will fall into place and tags will be filled. It is too bad that Mathews had to stoop to that level.

[Adam Waszak]

I think for a company to come outwith advertising like this says something totally different to me. With the lawsuits and everything else large companies have to deal with on a daily basis, do you think mathews is really going to print something for all of the world to see if it was not true? Think about it for a minute if they lie in an add they lose especially when it is about another company if it is false. Better research this to see if what they wrote is true or not. Mathews wins more championships every year than any other manufacturer. I went to buy a new bow a few years back and I saidd no way to mathews! I shot Hoyt, PSE, Jennings, Darton etc. Then the guy talked me into shooting a Mathews once and that is the bow I purchased after shooting it for an hour. By far the best bows I have ever shot. I didn't buy because of advertising I think 99 percent of the bows made today are great bows if you tune them and get to know them for awhile I just like the mathews.

ps-"Catch us if you can"

AW

[markbouman]

Talk about gimmicks .... that Martin girl can be my screen saver any day. But I'll still shoot my Mathews (as soon as the damn thing comes in! :rant: ).

[plugger]

I was going to buy a hoyt until I saw that ad but now I think I better buy a mathews. Seriously I have never owned a mathews but having shot a switchback it may be in the stars, will shoot the new bowtechs first.

[Jx38]

i'm mot sure if anyone is aware of this:

mathews make dealers sell there bows for a certian price - and it's usually higher than any other bows. but what most of us don't know is that they (dealers) buy them for about the same price as other bows. so, the mark up is a lot more, meaning the dealer is going to make more money selling a mathews. that's one of the reasons why dealers who deal w/ multiple bow manufacturers will probably push you more towards a mathews. it's all about the $$$$$$$ better bow??? it's all what each individual likes. when you see the mathews advertisemt "mathews shooters have won 90% of the 3d shoots" well it's probably because 95% of the shooters shoot a mathews. I know, i shoot 3d and mathews defenatly is the bow of choice. my self and a small hand few of others are the only ones shooting non-mathews bows. (at least at the shoots i attend)

[plugger]

Mathews dealers dont all sell at the same price, I checked three dealers all different, naturaly my local dealer is the highest.

[Trushot_Archer]

How two guys can argue over 10 or 20 fps amazes me.

That's just ridiculous. I readily argue with over 3-5 fps :lol:

mathews make dealers sell there bows for a certian price

So does Hoyt, PSE, Bowtech etc. (on the higher end models)

They also restrict who they let become a dealer by area, have strict regulations as far as internet sales etc.

This is all to HELP the true PRO SHOPS and I applaud it. Cabela's will never have a top of the line Hoyt in there new on the walls. Hoyt knows they will burn everybody else in a 20 mile radius...they look out for the pro shop owners as well they should.

[lumpy]

not to throw gas on the flames but.............. this thread reminds me of a client I once had that said " boy I sure like the Ad's that that press company uses and they sure spend alot on advertising and floor space at trade shows. that might impress others but why should I purchase there product and pay almost 30% more to cover there advertising expense, when I can get the same thing elsewhere."
I have always said buy a Mathews, or a Hoyt if you like window dressing(advertising and hype). I shoot what I want cause it fits me! not because of what others think.

With that being said I shoot a Parker, and an old 45 lb. Bear bearcat recurve. Parker shoots great, but the bear feels conected to my soul.

[Swamp Monster]

This is all to HELP the true PRO SHOPS and I applaud it. Cabela's will never have a top of the line Hoyt in there new on the walls. Hoyt knows they will burn everybody else in a 20 mile radius...they look out for the pro shop owners as well they should.


Exactly! I think PSE and Martin have done the same thing with certain bows in their line up. They want to make sure that they are set up by qualified people.

Lumpy, if "window dressing" made a bow that shot as smooth as my Hoyt Ultra Tec, I consider one of them as well! :lol: :lol:

In todays Market, they all pay big bucks to advertise so it's a moot point in todays archery market...he** even Bear/Jennings are doing two and three page ads!!! Somebody must be buying there stuff! All the big companies are doing full page + ads...PSE, Mathews, Hoyt, Darton, Martin (chicks even! :woohoo1: ) Parker, Bowtech, Browning, and others I'm probably forgetting!
And yep, this is an old post, that ad is a year an half old....and I noticed it didn't run much and for very long. I think Mathews took some heat for it, true or otherwise. It was just a turning point imo, from advertising the qualities of the companies product to criticizing your biggest competitor....and lets face it, Hoyt put a dent in Mathews at the time (still are hehehe!) I figure by 2007, Mathews will have a lineup consisting of a bow that is all one big dampener except the grip....I mean they just keep adding them!! (funny how some bows ((cough...Hoyt)) don't need em'!) hehehe just throwing a little fire around....they are a great bow no doubt!

[Swamp Monster]

but the bear feels conected to my soul.

Ah yes! And that is what important...and about the best description I have heard when it comes to shooting recurves!

[lumpy]

looking forward to the traditional show in Kalamazooin a few weeks 21-23rd. lots of eye candy, gotta bring the drool bucket for this one.

[Trushot_Archer]

as smooth as my Hoyt Ultra Tec, I consider one of them as well!

You still shooting that crusty old Ultra Swamp? :lol:

Dude...your Sooooo 2003 ;) :D

Bow Retro :lol:

[Swamp Monster]

LMAO!!!

Yep, I still have the original split limb version of the Limbsavors as well!! May as well keep the whole package retro!! :D :D
Actually this is the first bow I have had in a long while that I haven't even considered trading off after a season or two. And considering the stupid money I have into it, thats probably a good thing. As you know I am always on the look out for a sibling for the UT...the UT doesn't get along to well with the Martin Recurve...lets just say they tolerate each other!!

[rodboy]

So!
the mathews adds are working,, people are talking about it.. Thats what they want, their name to be mentioned. People that shoot mathews know all about their products and how smooth they are. You can bash all you want and say what you want about the mathews company butTheir great bows..

It's like Janet in the super bowl, everyone nows who she is and what she did

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .

So just relax and have fun shooting. :piparty:

[Swamp Monster]

I don't think anyone is really bashing Mathews....most folks have grown out of that I would hope. I was just dissapointed in that add, (long ago...) and would have felt the same way even if I had been shooting a Mathews.
They are a great company with a great product, no arguments from me. And many of us can thank them for pushing the envelope as well.


btw, I think (too) many of the Mathews owners 6-7 years ago gave the Co. the bad rap...there "if you don't shoot a Mathews your snot" attitude turned a lot of would be customers off. Again, I think we are past those days for the most part though that type of person still exists and it includes other companies beside Mathews as well. I don't see much of that elitist attitude anymore, I think most folks are beyond that. And ofcourse most folks that really understand archery realize that bows are so subjective, and the the quality today is so good that it doesn't matter what you shoot as long as you shoot period!

[ublyhunter]

I agree - I dumped my Matthews because I was going through 80.00 dollars strings like they were going out of style. I am now a Hoyt guy. I love my Havotec and will not be letting it go for a long time. It fits like a glove and if it breaks I can send it back and not have to worry.

Mathews has stooped to new lows imo. First of all I like Mathews bows. A few of there models were at the top of my list when I was bow shopping. As everyone knows Mathews spend far more than any other company on advertising, with Hoyt coming in not to far behind. Well, in the newest isues of Bowhunt America Mathews is running its newest 2 page add that does nothing but slam Hoyt and the cam.5......actually calling Hoyt and its president a liar. I cannot remember any other companies going this route with their advertising. Sure, Hoyt advertising has knocked single cams etc and other companies have knocked twin cams....but never deliberately going after a specific company and their execs. This is obviously a desperate attempt to regain the market share Hoyt has taken. It's too bad because a Mathews bow can stand on it's own merit. Like I said, I think they are excellent bows, just dissapointed with this new add campaign.

I guess I should clarify, I would have posted this even if I would have purchased a Mathews

[TnRidge]

I currently shoot a Mathews ,but I'm not loyal to Mathews ,nor do I think their bows are far and above other brands . I bought the bow based on how it felt in my hand ,and the way it shoots ,not because of the advertizing hype or from other opinions of the bow .

[Trophy Specialist]

I've been seeing ads where Mathews has been bashing Hoyt for many years. I have not heard of any lawsuits comming from those campains eithor. In my opinion, Mathews would not expose themselves to such liability if they were not clearly on the money with their ads. In this day and age, Mathew's, or any other company for that matter, would be sued out of existance for running false, damaging ads faster than a 100 pound pull (pick a bow of your choice) shooting a 300 grain arrow.

[uptracker]

I believe the only reason that Mathews is "bashing" Hoyt is because they are their number0 one competitor. Not saying it's right. PSE was into the mix a few years back because they were the biggest competitor at the time...mainly due to a similar cam. Why doesn't Hoyt or any other conpany complain about the false IBO ratings that Mathews claims....or the fact that most of the draw lengths are off by a 1/2" or more. Maybe they are just too classy and they don't want to start another war. Maybe Mathews should fire all of their advertising execs, etc. Who knows.

I've had problems with $629 my Mathews. I never had problems with my $300 PSE Fireflight that I bought new when I was 14. That was 12 years ago. I should have kept that bow. Now I need to upgrade. I'm shying away from the ads and shooting every bow I can between now and the end of Febuary. Then I'll make a decision. We'll see what happens.

I do like the new Switchback though.

Remember too, one of the top bowhunters in the state shoots an older 58#(?) Golden Eagle. He kills great deer almost every year with it and even shot a Booner last year. I believe he has 18 bucks in the record book now. Just goes to show that a Mathews isn't needed in a treestand.

[uptracker]

btw, I think (too) many of the Mathews owners 6-7 years ago gave the Co. the bad rap...there "if you don't shoot a Mathews your snot" attitude turned a lot of would be customers off. Again, I think we are past those days for the most part though that type of person still exists and it includes other companies beside Mathews as well. I don't see much of that elitist attitude anymore, I think most folks are beyond that. And ofcourse most folks that really understand archery realize that bows are so subjective, and the the quality today is so good that it doesn't matter what you shoot as long as you shoot period!
I disagree a bit. Go to Jim Morrows MJC archery in Royal Oak with something other than a Mathews...they'll treat you like "snot"...so will everbody else in there. Now go to Schupach's, who enjoys bowhunters and diverse archers, and they'll cut off an ear for ya no matter what you buy or shoot.

Just saying there are still a lot of people out there giving it a bad rap.

[LilyDuck]

Now bow-hunting for the first time this year I have a 25 year old Browning that was used by Dad only one season...Was never a big hunter unitl I went to college...I took to Gander moutain to get a peep sight put on as well as a new rest and sight...When I got there they were like your going to shoot this...Apparently it a collectors item I did use it this year and there was only about 25% let-off...I want to get one next year and I was thinking about Mattews and this was strictly on how many adds I watch on OLN this was a bow that looked like it a had a reputation...Then When I went to the store there was a muliptle number of bows that I never heard of. So i think the advertisment is not for you to buy there product but simply to come out and get you in a store with a Mattews in your hand...And as you guys put it the people that already have one have a sway about themseleves maybe making you feel with the bow in your hand if you dont buy this your not at the top of your game...


...But What do I know I'm a broke college kid:D

[hypox]

I'll just keep shooting my 1996 Martin speed demon. I couldn't trade her in for anything on the shelf.

[sullyxlh]

i shoot a mathews,darn good bow imo,anyone that buys a solo cam bow can figure that some of the money they paid for it goes to mathews anyway for royalities on there solo cam patent. for some it's like the fisherman who uses an ugly stick and CAN'T understand why people use a croix or a loomis. ~sully

[Dead Bird]

I shoot an old bow - Pearson Grey Ghost - it has been a really good bow for me.... but I live down the street from MJC in Royal Oak and every time I go in there it is like what are doing with that bow - hope it doesn't blow up and hurt someone... Jim was one of the first Mattews dealers in MI and is still is one of the top reps... but he has lost alot of business because he so pro Mattews and not pro customer... just my two cents

[Swamp Monster]

LMAO...the thread that will never die!

[Trushot_Archer]

Here Ya go Swampy...
http://re2.mm-a.yimg.com/image/355516011

[Byron]

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/photopost/data/520/864cougarIII_may_2004.jpg

If you look closely, there are two bows in the picture.

Why do I feel the need to shoot one now? Nah, ads don't work.

Best Regards,
Byron

[deputy]

Uhhh.....Ummmmmm.
There are bows in that picture? :gaga:

[Sturgeon-man]

I just gave away my Outback ........... purchased 1 way plane ticket to Wall Walla WA Too get a Martin & a fine hottie :cool: :cool:

[Swamp Monster]

It would almost be worth the $519 if the hottie came with it! If she talks, then I would wait for a sale! ;)

[Sib]

If you look closely, there are two bows in the picture.

Best Regards,
Byron

I had no problem finding the two logos in the ad, the one on top is harder to see tho. You sure about there being two bows? :corkysm55

[Chuck]

I wish I was that bow string............. :)

VVAAVVAVAVOOM

[Asian Archer]

I really am not surprised at Matthew's advertising tech. I figure with all of the competition out there these "types" of company bashing would come out sooner rather than later. Yes, it is not pretty but this type of thing happens in a challenging market continually on the rise and increasing in technology by leaps and bounds. I personally try not to get caught up in "believing" the rumors or critics too much when I'm shopping for a bow. I look at what I want out of performance and what will work best for me in addition to quality and specs. In addition, most companies use one or more technologies developed by previous or other companies. I.E. Hoyt had to buy the rights from Darton in order to develop the Cam and 1/2. Likewise, the first bows that came out came from companies like Bear, Darton, Jennings etc. So alot of new companies now owe alot of their innovations to these pioneers of the industry. I think most bows out there are good to excellent depending on if they are used to make a good clean and sportsman-like kill everything else is just details.