Well no more stories of any running for about three months

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

:eek:
I may need counseling.

I sure wish we could get this law changed.

[ESOX]

Time to go fishing.

What is the intent of that law? I always figured it was so that ground nesting birds can raise their broods without being disturbed more than neccessary, but was never sure.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

Many argue that they do disturb nesting and young animals.

But I think the law is to broad.

Most of the areas we run are industrial and or urban.

Some other states (OHIO) do not have this law and they have no problems with free casting hounds year around.

Most hunting dogs are keept under strict controll and seldom cause any problems to anything except giving a bunny a little exercise;)

In the past week we have jumped almost every animal in the woods. Including a herd of deer yesterday. But they never even looked twice at them.

They just continued to search for a rabbit.
Then when we do find the rabbits they give a little chase and run to a hole.

No animals harmed.

Most of the time we help keep the coyotes scared out of an area and that help ease the real pressure off of the young animals.

Normally when we return to start running in a spot after the quite season is over we find alot more sign of coyotes.

[ESOX]

I was thinking about the Coyote issue after I had posted. Those @#$% Yotes weren't even around MI when they passed that law, I wonder if the biologists might see things differently now.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

But I can tell you.
I spend a TON of time running my dogs here in Mich.
I have spots now that I cant even run my dog's in if it gets Dark I have to catch them or the coyotes will.

They are alot worse than people think.

I see coyote sign in every woods I go into now.

There's only one spot that I know of that isn't coverd with coyotes and it's becuase there are guy's running in there 24/7 .

It's the hottest spot to run dog's in S.E. Mich.
Why ?? Becuase of the amount of rabbits!!
Why are there so many rabbits?
Because the preditors are constantly being run out of there due to human/dog traffic.
Usually after we stop running in the we return to find the coyotes moved in. Untill we all start running again.

There are deer, ducks, woodcock, squirrel, rabbits but almost no coyotes.

[predatordave]

hey guys dont worry about those yotes. i will be making a dent next season on them. :D let me know where they are at and maybe i can head out and do some damage on the predator population. i am planning on getting a yote and fox hound this spring. i also do some calling too.

i actually got into coyote and fox hunting because they really thinned out my good rabbit hunting spots.

hey robert you ever run your dogs around the lapeer area. i dont know how you feel about public land but there is some good areas around here.

how could someone go about trying to get a law changed like that?

talk to you later, dave

[Dawg]

There goes my idea for having morel dogs.

I read about these hounds in europe that hunt this type of mushroom that grows under the soil and I was thinking that was pretty cool. I'll have to call my legislator.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

Yeah I have hunted in Lapeer quite a bit over the years.
Like you said the rabbits on state land are pretty thin out there.

But if you have a spot and you want to run some bunnies I'll bring the pup's.

As far as coyotes I could suggest some spots up north but
down state it's tuff to run those big game hounds around all the roads and private land.

I have a place in Glennie your more than welcome to go to and shoot every coyote you can. It's full of them.

[Beagle]

Boy it just breaks my heart to stop running. I just got that Driffter / Gypse pup started and going real good. He is 10 months old. I am not totally in love with the idea, but I am going to send him to Barney Daily's pen with his brother (Cork's dog) to keep the momentum going. Those bunnies better watch out on July 15:D :D :D

Just one thing about the down time. I hate it. But last year I was running about the end of July and one of my dogs found a nest of baby rabbits and killed them all. Made my think a bit:( :( :(

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

I want his litter mate:) :)

I sold Rattler I need something to replace him:D

[Trainfish]

Ok, I have read and read on this issue including Boehrs (sp) great threads on the "Law" forum.

Can I walk my dog on leash or check cord in SGAs or other land?

If not then these months are "yard work" and basic obedience training months, right?

Its an interesting situation as I see plenty of "pet" type dogs on Potowatami trail and other places, like the Uof M's Stenchfield Woods, being walked (some off leash). Realistically, where is the boundary between hunting and exercise? Basically, my 13 week old Brit is in it for the adventure and exercise.

I am all for following the rules and the spirit of the rules. how do I keep up the training and exercise and follow the same?

New to the whole dog world,

Pat

[Jumpshootin']

Dog Training
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You may train dogs on wild animals only from July 15 through April 15. Exception: Michigan residents may train dogs on fox on state lands in Zone 3 under special permit


Seems to me that this law restricts training dog only on WILD animals. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this would not restrict you from field training your dog on pigeons or other birds that you bought for that purpose. Nor would it restrict a fella from water training his Lab with dummies or bought birds. It doesn't mention anything about not allowing your dog to be off-leash. Certain state game areas may have seperate restrictions on dog training, but as I remember the signs that I've seen restrict only shooting in those areas between certain dates.

[Heavy duty]

I believe the quite time is needed. If your dog Handels well enough that you can call it off young of the year, Or does not start unwanted game. Then you already found a way to train.

You'll notice most conservation laws are written with a lot of grey areas. That's because most of population is grey. And these laws have to cover every one. The enforcement is left to the discretion of the officer

Take it for what it's worth.
You can follow the letter of the law and the spirit in witch it was written

Or you can look for the loop holes?? and do what you want.

THE WILDLIFE CONSERVATION ORDER
14.1 Dog training, defined.
Sec. 14.1. For the purposes of this chapter, "training" or "dog training" means to chase or locate game with dogs outside of the open season for that game.

Jumpshootin,
No mention as to being wild or not. Being there is no season on pigeons your ok there, only you can't have your dog off leash during the quite time. unless your in a training area. I know Highland rec area has a lot of dog clubs out there training almost every weekend. duck ponds and all.

Robert you wrote In this thread.
I have spots now that I cant even run my dog's in if it gets Dark I have to catch them or the coyotes will.

There has been others that you made mention of running your pups after dark also.
While trying to find the length of leash allowed by law, I found this

Sec. 6.6. (1) Except as provided in subsection 2.5(2), it shall be unlawful to start dogs on an animal at any time other than the hours open to hunting for that animal.

There are many areas open to dog training all year, You can also get a private dog training permit from the DNR.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

I will ask him to take a look at this thread.

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

Since Boehr brought it to my attention that it was in fact illegal to run rabbits at night you will not that I have not posted anything about my running rabbits (after Dark);)

I still do not agree with the law but that just my opinion.

[Heavy duty]

Never gave it a thought Til i read it today??

when I have a young dog that is sight pointing, I'll take out in the dark. that way it has to use it's nose.

Wonder if it's ok if the dog is on a lead over Pen raised birds??

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

I would think it would depend on where and what type of bird
if it's native or not?

Yeap there are some HUGE advantages to training at night.
The best way to get a pack to work as a pack I think is to run them at night.
Plus in the late summer early fall it's really the only time you can run them due to the heat.
Running at night eliminates 1 of there three sinses.

But as you said it is illegal to do it here in michigan.

Technically it's also illegal to have your dog off of a leash in many areas.

If some one really wanted to push it you could find many reason to stop some one from turning dog's loose.

Good thing those pup's are worth the trouble;)

[NorthJeff]

I hardly ever take a gun with me anyways....out since January over 40 times and no gun yet. We don't have an over ubundance of game around here, and if I don't shoot the hares behind my house, they last all winter and there are plenty for next year. I usually get my dogs started in less than 5 minutes, and they will run straight, on game, with a few minute pause here and there, for an average of 2 hours. While they are running I look for rubs, new stand sites, plan new food plots areas, trails, or just plain enjoy watching my "buddies". I often have friends out that bring their dogs so we have 6 or 7, and even up to 10, going at once, and then we try and get lines to see what dog is doing the best. If you try, it is easy to see game 12-15 times over the course of 2 hours. Some of the runs will cover 40 acres, so during a 2 hour period it may be common to have as many as 20 loops. You get used to individual rabbits, and learn where to post to get a good look-kind of fun!

Running is almost over on open land, but I'm going to the beagle-club on Saturday to run for about 3 hours. A friend of mine has 60 acres fenced in Seney, and that is where I run the rest of the spring/summer/early fall. The only time my dogs aren't running is during deer season.

It should be a great run on Saturday!(cottontail training day)

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

I have to drive to run and hunt.
I have to worry about busy Roads, Trains, etc.

I would love to have a place up there to run some snow shoe.

[boehr]

I really don't know what I can add here that hasn't been discussed in this thread or here http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33993&highlight=training

I can understand what some of you are trying to say about other states and coyotes. Of course we also must consider, regardless how much we may or may not like them, coyotes are part of the resource and that is one way that coyotes survive.

[NorthJeff]

It's kind of funny, I bought the property for deer hunting, and I end up spending much more time running the dogs on it, as well as planting, cutting, piling, and taking pictures of deer.

I'm not trying to rub it in, but I sometimes take the dogs out for 5 minutes, watch them start, and then go back to the house for dinner, or to plow, or watch TV(when I'm lazy). I have 3 sliding doors facing the river, my bridge, and the property on the other side where the dogs are running. The start of where the rabbits run is about 80 yards from the back of the house. I open a door, listen to see where the run is at, and go back to taking care of my little kids or dinner. If I don't here the dogs, I turn the tracker on to see where they are at, from inside the house. If I do this, I usually leave them out for around 3 hours, and join them for the last hour to hour and a half.

In approximately 300 times running behind the house the past 5 winters, the dogs have come back across the river, and then road only 2 times. This happened 2 winters ago, and I took care of that hare and it never happened again. It wouldn't be a big deal, we can run across the road too-either our property/federal/Mead, but the area behind the house is more confined and you get to see more.

It's a great way to pass the winter!

[Robert W. McCoy Jr]

I was asking you to look at it because a couple memebers were asking about throwing dummies to train retrevers and about work with dog on a leash, also about traing with pigeons in the wild for training perpouses during the quite season.

thanks for taking a look.

[Lilred]

Illegal to run em at nite?? Awww man, that's a favortie pastime down here. No wind, cool nite, whipporwhills chatterin, and beagles singin the opera through the bottoms..man it dont get no better than that!

We have a no-training season here on public lands, and some public lands open up fer trainin in june. A wild san-juan gives any dog a run fer the money, so most of the time in the off-season i train lilones and run the big ones on occasion.

Ya'll lookin yer yotes in Lapeer, head on over ta deford sga. I've ran across quite a few over there rabbit huntin. I've hunted the lapeer sga quite a bit too, good rabbit huntin. Theyd hit that swamp every time lol..but a ton of fun. I seen 4 different yotes there too, along the river squirrel huntin, and seen some on the powerline.

[boehr]

Dog training means to chase or locate game animals with a dog outside of the open season for that game. Throwing a dummy and having you dog fetch the dummy in order to train a retreiver is not dog training under the intent of the law. Walking a dog on a leash is also not training under the intent of the law. Training on pigeons however becomes a little more picky because I doubt many of you want you dog to just be used on pigeons ;) and I suspect while training on those pigeons it likely would be pretty hard to keep the dog from working grouse, pheasant or whatever at the same time so I would advise staying away from the pigeon idea.

Realize there are a lot of other things during the closed period of dog training besides other birds out there. All wild birds and animals have their young in the spring or the young are just being able to get out of their dens, homes etc., at that time of year. Give them a break and let the young learn so you can have a fair chase when it is time for the hunt. Three months out of the year, sounds like a good period to fish in your spare time and give wildlife and your dog a break. There is also other things to train your dog to do besides finding game too.:)

[Trainfish]

Thanks for clarifying the issue especially the pigeon part.

Pat

[timbergsp]

YOU DONT HAVE TO STOP IF YOU GET A DNR PERMITT TO TRAIN DOGS, THATS WHAT I GOT MAKES IT NICE I NEVER STOP RUNNING OR TRAINING MY DOGS



GOOD LUCK GUYS BIRD SEASON IS COMING ON REAL FAST

TIMBERGSP

[Glen]

There's field trials nearly every weekend all summer. You could also join a beagle club. That may help with places to run.